Re: In praise of the humble drawknife!
Frank,
Thank you for your considered reply.I have no doubt that the
boat was indeed well built and I whole heartedly applaude your
approach toward beefing up the chine area.Indeed,the chines on a
sharpie are its weak spots.On WINDERMERE,I have been using a 3/4"
radius on all edges(shoe,box-keel....so far!) and intend to do the
same when it comes time to hanging the sides next spring.As for your
glass schedule,right on! Like you,I have been going with 10oz
glass,two layers for the bottom and three for the shoe and box-keel.
Bruce dropped by my building site a couple of weeks ago and good
humouredly shared with me the circumstance which lead to RIFF-RAFF
having a concave bottom......not exactly a good thing for a sharpie
to"over expose" its chines! However,a MICRO does have that full
length keel which somewhat lessens the problem since the keel will
hit bottom before the chines.The AS-29 needs more protection,as you
know ;-)
Hope things continue to go well for you with the AS-29 and that
more detail pictures will come up on you web page.I am a wee bit
jealous as the AS-29 was a boat I was sorely tempted to build and
then came dangerously close to building after being given a set of
new plans as a gift from a dear friend in Florida.
Again,thanks for your reply.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,praying for nice weather this weekend so more work can
be done!!!! along the banks of the St.Lawrence Seaway.........
Thank you for your considered reply.I have no doubt that the
boat was indeed well built and I whole heartedly applaude your
approach toward beefing up the chine area.Indeed,the chines on a
sharpie are its weak spots.On WINDERMERE,I have been using a 3/4"
radius on all edges(shoe,box-keel....so far!) and intend to do the
same when it comes time to hanging the sides next spring.As for your
glass schedule,right on! Like you,I have been going with 10oz
glass,two layers for the bottom and three for the shoe and box-keel.
Bruce dropped by my building site a couple of weeks ago and good
humouredly shared with me the circumstance which lead to RIFF-RAFF
having a concave bottom......not exactly a good thing for a sharpie
to"over expose" its chines! However,a MICRO does have that full
length keel which somewhat lessens the problem since the keel will
hit bottom before the chines.The AS-29 needs more protection,as you
know ;-)
Hope things continue to go well for you with the AS-29 and that
more detail pictures will come up on you web page.I am a wee bit
jealous as the AS-29 was a boat I was sorely tempted to build and
then came dangerously close to building after being given a set of
new plans as a gift from a dear friend in Florida.
Again,thanks for your reply.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,praying for nice weather this weekend so more work can
be done!!!! along the banks of the St.Lawrence Seaway.........
Peter,
Alisa is very solidly constructed, the builder did a first rate job
and she is in great condition overall after 8 seasons of continuous
use. When I bought her, I knew there would be work to do on the
mast, bow well and chines. For much of her life, sheathing along the
chines has allowed water into the boat. After I removed the old
stuff from the chines, I counted 15 dark spots on starboard and 20 on
port, and numerous spots around the fasteners. There were air
bubbles around many of the fasteners on the port side - it looks like
they were introduced over time due to expansion/contraction maybe
from the freezes you get up there on the St. Lawrence. I ground all
of these out with a grinder / sanding pad and filled with thickened
epoxy before re-sheathing with 3 layers of 10 oz. The screws are
stainless and the picture you see is the worst area of the whole
boat.
I've mentioned this before, but the bottom of the boat is slighlty
convex (which puzzled me until Bruce Hector mentioned on this forum
that his Micro is that way from the way he assembled the hull upside
down). Also Alisa's chines were only 1/2" radius. These two factors
combined to cause problems both in blocking the boat for winter and
launching the boat in the sling. I've worked out a gentler blocking
scheme and radiused the chines (using my drawknife and a plane and a
grinder) to 1" and added 3 layers of 10oz cloth cut at 45 degrees,
which should give me an increased strength in this area of 4 to 10
times. None of the black spots penetrated very far and I only found
one or two areas where I could easily chops stuff with my chisel. I
filled these areas. I'll have to take a look next spring to see if
problems are getting worse. If so, I'll have to chop out portions of
the bottom and scarf in replacements (like I did with the mast).
I am very happy with the way the 10oz, 45 degree strips works on the
chines. I used 8", 8" and 4" widths, cut with scissors. The width
gets narrower when applying because of the 45 degree cut. I did the
two 8" layers first (overlapping 2") and then the 4" last. Then I
gloped loads of stuff thickened with 50/50 microballoons and fused
silica. I used Raka, which cures soft. Much of the work was done in
90-98 degrees, which the Raka very slow hardner handles very well! I
experimented with biaxial cloth and 9 oz tape and the 10oz 45 degree
stuff was the best by far in quality of application.
It is important to note that the areas where the sheathing was intact
did not have any problems around the stainless steel fasteners. I
just bought a batch of square drive silicon bronze screws from
McFeely's catalog (you Canadians have got the right idea - after
working on this boat, I am a convert!). I nailed my new mast wedge
(I had to chop the old one out) into the bow well with silicon bronze
nails (from Jamestown Distributors). SB doesn't seem to cost that
much more than stainless.
I am confident I've addressed all problem areas on the chines, but
won't know about the two bilgeboard cases until we launch sometime
this month (barring one possible external interruption).
My learnings:
- make sure you use a generous radius in all parts of your boat
(helps with stress, sheathing and paint)
- pay attention to the chine - it is a sharpie's weakest spot
- I was spelling it wrong: it is scarf not scarph (I looked it up on
websters.com)
Frank
Wilmington, DE
Hoping to launch in a few weeks ...
--- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
Alisa is very solidly constructed, the builder did a first rate job
and she is in great condition overall after 8 seasons of continuous
use. When I bought her, I knew there would be work to do on the
mast, bow well and chines. For much of her life, sheathing along the
chines has allowed water into the boat. After I removed the old
stuff from the chines, I counted 15 dark spots on starboard and 20 on
port, and numerous spots around the fasteners. There were air
bubbles around many of the fasteners on the port side - it looks like
they were introduced over time due to expansion/contraction maybe
from the freezes you get up there on the St. Lawrence. I ground all
of these out with a grinder / sanding pad and filled with thickened
epoxy before re-sheathing with 3 layers of 10 oz. The screws are
stainless and the picture you see is the worst area of the whole
boat.
I've mentioned this before, but the bottom of the boat is slighlty
convex (which puzzled me until Bruce Hector mentioned on this forum
that his Micro is that way from the way he assembled the hull upside
down). Also Alisa's chines were only 1/2" radius. These two factors
combined to cause problems both in blocking the boat for winter and
launching the boat in the sling. I've worked out a gentler blocking
scheme and radiused the chines (using my drawknife and a plane and a
grinder) to 1" and added 3 layers of 10oz cloth cut at 45 degrees,
which should give me an increased strength in this area of 4 to 10
times. None of the black spots penetrated very far and I only found
one or two areas where I could easily chops stuff with my chisel. I
filled these areas. I'll have to take a look next spring to see if
problems are getting worse. If so, I'll have to chop out portions of
the bottom and scarf in replacements (like I did with the mast).
I am very happy with the way the 10oz, 45 degree strips works on the
chines. I used 8", 8" and 4" widths, cut with scissors. The width
gets narrower when applying because of the 45 degree cut. I did the
two 8" layers first (overlapping 2") and then the 4" last. Then I
gloped loads of stuff thickened with 50/50 microballoons and fused
silica. I used Raka, which cures soft. Much of the work was done in
90-98 degrees, which the Raka very slow hardner handles very well! I
experimented with biaxial cloth and 9 oz tape and the 10oz 45 degree
stuff was the best by far in quality of application.
It is important to note that the areas where the sheathing was intact
did not have any problems around the stainless steel fasteners. I
just bought a batch of square drive silicon bronze screws from
McFeely's catalog (you Canadians have got the right idea - after
working on this boat, I am a convert!). I nailed my new mast wedge
(I had to chop the old one out) into the bow well with silicon bronze
nails (from Jamestown Distributors). SB doesn't seem to cost that
much more than stainless.
I am confident I've addressed all problem areas on the chines, but
won't know about the two bilgeboard cases until we launch sometime
this month (barring one possible external interruption).
My learnings:
- make sure you use a generous radius in all parts of your boat
(helps with stress, sheathing and paint)
- pay attention to the chine - it is a sharpie's weakest spot
- I was spelling it wrong: it is scarf not scarph (I looked it up on
websters.com)
Frank
Wilmington, DE
Hoping to launch in a few weeks ...
--- In bolger@y..., "ellengaestboatbuildingcom" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
> I like the photos of your work in progress,in particular,thefastener
> excellent close-ups of the chine.
> I am curious however,about the black stains surrounding the
> heads.Screw or nail and of what type of metal? Those black stainsbe
> tell me that something is going on bellow the surface that may not
> good in the long run for the health of the sides or the chines.little
> They also represent evidence that removing fasteners in epoxy
> sealed/bonded/laminated/glassed assemblies may not be such a bad
> thing despite the tedious task of removing them once the epoxy sets.
> Thanks for the pictures and continued success with your repairs!!
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,with bruised knees after driving and removing a
> over 1000 screws from WINDERMEREs entire bottom 'cause I wasworried
> about "metal sickness",glad that it is finally over from along the
> banks of the St.Lawrence Seaway...........
>
>
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> >
> > I've posted a few pictures at:
> >http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html
I have two drawknives, the one I was using is as you describe - a
droopy blade that scoops shallow troughs from the wood. It is much
more effective at removing stock from a flat surface than the other
blade, which is straight, but works very well on masts and such.
Frank
Wilmington, DE
droopy blade that scoops shallow troughs from the wood. It is much
more effective at removing stock from a flat surface than the other
blade, which is straight, but works very well on masts and such.
Frank
Wilmington, DE
--- In bolger@y..., "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Then I sharpened up the drawknife and chopped away.
> >
> > It is amazing how much stock you can cut away in a short time
with
> a
> > sharp drawknife. wow! I finished up with a baily #4 plane and a
> > bull-nosed rabbeting plane (total of $80 worth of tools from
> various
> > antique shops in Pennsylvania).
>
> It is also an amazingly easy tool to use with great accuracy. If
the
> wood is good you can follow a line, and it seems to be something
one
> can pick up quickly. The tool does help, my best one comes from a
> fleamarket, but some of the new tools are good also. I have a Barr
> that has the shape I prefer, which is like a symetrical daggerboard
> foil, with the handles offset a few degrees.
>
> I was at a chair workshop, where someone mentioned the technique
for
> tapering the backrest spindles on a windsor chair. You drawknife
> square stock. Then you bevel it to an octagon by eye. At the
> initial taper, yo reduce the 8 to a squareby cuting the flats down
to
> where they eliminate the octagon bevels. Where it tapers again you
> reduce the square to an 8 and take that down to a 4 , then
everything
> is made octagonal (though there are three diameters of 8), and then
> round. The result is an exact, easy, step down to the dimensions
of
> the typical spindle. No measuring, except for the initial square.
> The final deminsion is like 3/8" or smaller, and the whole thing is
> done with the drawknife. Of course the wood is perfect, split out
of
> veneer grade oak logs. Which are cheap if you get to them before
> they make the mill, but realisticaly you could sell them back for
> more than the chairs are worth. It does make one wonder how many
> similar little tricks there are that are automatic, accurate, and
> fast.
>
> Power tools aren't always faster. In essence it is usualy faster
to
> split a piece of wood than saw it. Wood working is the art of
> exploying the split, and cutting across grain only when you have to.
I like the photos of your work in progress,in particular,the
excellent close-ups of the chine.
I am curious however,about the black stains surrounding the fastener
heads.Screw or nail and of what type of metal? Those black stains
tell me that something is going on bellow the surface that may not be
good in the long run for the health of the sides or the chines.
They also represent evidence that removing fasteners in epoxy
sealed/bonded/laminated/glassed assemblies may not be such a bad
thing despite the tedious task of removing them once the epoxy sets.
Thanks for the pictures and continued success with your repairs!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,with bruised knees after driving and removing a little
over 1000 screws from WINDERMEREs entire bottom 'cause I was worried
about "metal sickness",glad that it is finally over from along the
banks of the St.Lawrence Seaway...........
excellent close-ups of the chine.
I am curious however,about the black stains surrounding the fastener
heads.Screw or nail and of what type of metal? Those black stains
tell me that something is going on bellow the surface that may not be
good in the long run for the health of the sides or the chines.
They also represent evidence that removing fasteners in epoxy
sealed/bonded/laminated/glassed assemblies may not be such a bad
thing despite the tedious task of removing them once the epoxy sets.
Thanks for the pictures and continued success with your repairs!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,with bruised knees after driving and removing a little
over 1000 screws from WINDERMEREs entire bottom 'cause I was worried
about "metal sickness",glad that it is finally over from along the
banks of the St.Lawrence Seaway...........
--- In bolger@y..., "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
>
> I've posted a few pictures at:
>http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html
>a
> Then I sharpened up the drawknife and chopped away.
>
> It is amazing how much stock you can cut away in a short time with
> sharp drawknife. wow! I finished up with a baily #4 plane and avarious
> bull-nosed rabbeting plane (total of $80 worth of tools from
> antique shops in Pennsylvania).It is also an amazingly easy tool to use with great accuracy. If the
wood is good you can follow a line, and it seems to be something one
can pick up quickly. The tool does help, my best one comes from a
fleamarket, but some of the new tools are good also. I have a Barr
that has the shape I prefer, which is like a symetrical daggerboard
foil, with the handles offset a few degrees.
I was at a chair workshop, where someone mentioned the technique for
tapering the backrest spindles on a windsor chair. You drawknife
square stock. Then you bevel it to an octagon by eye. At the
initial taper, yo reduce the 8 to a squareby cuting the flats down to
where they eliminate the octagon bevels. Where it tapers again you
reduce the square to an 8 and take that down to a 4 , then everything
is made octagonal (though there are three diameters of 8), and then
round. The result is an exact, easy, step down to the dimensions of
the typical spindle. No measuring, except for the initial square.
The final deminsion is like 3/8" or smaller, and the whole thing is
done with the drawknife. Of course the wood is perfect, split out of
veneer grade oak logs. Which are cheap if you get to them before
they make the mill, but realisticaly you could sell them back for
more than the chairs are worth. It does make one wonder how many
similar little tricks there are that are automatic, accurate, and
fast.
Power tools aren't always faster. In essence it is usualy faster to
split a piece of wood than saw it. Wood working is the art of
exploying the split, and cutting across grain only when you have to.
I had to scarph two 1 1/2 x 4 1/2 boards into two sides of my mast
this weekend (AS-29). I also had to make a wedge 13 x 1 1/2 x 9"
(Bolger calls it "stop for mast kevel"). That's four 4 1/2" x 15"
scarph cuts plus a big 13" cut. I've made scaph joints once before
(for a mast) using a saw, hammer, chisel and a hand plane, but I was
looking for a more efficient way. I first tried my 6" jointer (Big
Power Tool - gift from grandfather) for the 13" wedge. It was loud
and dangerous and made a lot of dust, but it worked. My mast is
still on its tabernacle - the piece to be repaired is suspended 15'
in the air, so I couldn't bring big power tools. Instead, I marked
the cut and made depth cuts every 2" with my japanese saw.
Then I sharpened up the drawknife and chopped away.
It is amazing how much stock you can cut away in a short time with a
sharp drawknife. wow! I finished up with a baily #4 plane and a
bull-nosed rabbeting plane (total of $80 worth of tools from various
antique shops in Pennsylvania). The replacement pieces were even
easier on my workbench. No power tools - quiet and quite
satisfying. By the way, I have been using plenty of power tools on
the refit, but it is refreshing when I can get something done without
dust and noise.
I've posted a few pictures at:
http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html
this weekend (AS-29). I also had to make a wedge 13 x 1 1/2 x 9"
(Bolger calls it "stop for mast kevel"). That's four 4 1/2" x 15"
scarph cuts plus a big 13" cut. I've made scaph joints once before
(for a mast) using a saw, hammer, chisel and a hand plane, but I was
looking for a more efficient way. I first tried my 6" jointer (Big
Power Tool - gift from grandfather) for the 13" wedge. It was loud
and dangerous and made a lot of dust, but it worked. My mast is
still on its tabernacle - the piece to be repaired is suspended 15'
in the air, so I couldn't bring big power tools. Instead, I marked
the cut and made depth cuts every 2" with my japanese saw.
Then I sharpened up the drawknife and chopped away.
It is amazing how much stock you can cut away in a short time with a
sharp drawknife. wow! I finished up with a baily #4 plane and a
bull-nosed rabbeting plane (total of $80 worth of tools from various
antique shops in Pennsylvania). The replacement pieces were even
easier on my workbench. No power tools - quiet and quite
satisfying. By the way, I have been using plenty of power tools on
the refit, but it is refreshing when I can get something done without
dust and noise.
I've posted a few pictures at:
http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/alisa/alisa.html