Re: boat for rough water?
Actually, I've looked at sections of Crystal (MAIB) and lines for
Gypsy (New Instant Boats), and they are IMHO, more than a little
different. Crystal seems to have a sharp v further back than Gypsy,
and in fact is v bottom all the way. Also, it seems to have some areas
where the plywood is tormented. If someone else was going to build it
and I didn't have to pay for it, Crystal is probably first choice. As
is, if I wanted to convert to stitch and glue construction I would
have to figure out the curved panels or make some kind of frame to
bend the plywood around to cut and fit panels. I would have to figure
out some other bouyancy scheme as 140 lbs is too heavy ( I don't want
a trailer). Crystal shure looks like a nice boat, tho.
You mentioned the "m" word! Ugh! I don't think I ever want to hear
another motor on the water after yesterday.
Gypsy (New Instant Boats), and they are IMHO, more than a little
different. Crystal seems to have a sharp v further back than Gypsy,
and in fact is v bottom all the way. Also, it seems to have some areas
where the plywood is tormented. If someone else was going to build it
and I didn't have to pay for it, Crystal is probably first choice. As
is, if I wanted to convert to stitch and glue construction I would
have to figure out the curved panels or make some kind of frame to
bend the plywood around to cut and fit panels. I would have to figure
out some other bouyancy scheme as 140 lbs is too heavy ( I don't want
a trailer). Crystal shure looks like a nice boat, tho.
You mentioned the "m" word! Ugh! I don't think I ever want to hear
another motor on the water after yesterday.
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> I'd vote for Crystal. It's very (exactly?) similar in hull shape to
> Gypsy, but with an inch or two more freeboard. Not especially
> difficult to build, probably just a bit tedious fitting all the air
> chambers. But through the miracle of epoxy and tape it won't need
> perfect carpentry, just an exta big load of goop.
>
> See the photos in Bolger 2, files, "bolger scans" folder. Phil says
> she's a fine surf boat, it obviously rows light and easy with two
> aboard (see photo of PB abd SA rowing along in same folder)
> and "it'll row fine and level with a the water she'll hold".
>
> I'd love one as a tender-lifeboat for my houseboat. You could
> probably cobble up a removable-bolt on motor board for use with a
> light motor and tiller extension and have it all.
In this case, pretty much as rough as I can row into. Just yesterday i
held off rowing in Gloucester Harbor as the boat I have tends to be
severely slowed down by a head sea (keep in mind that it is NOT a
representative example of its type). Bolger says (in "Small Boats")
that he could not preserve the rough water capability of the Thomaston
Galley, tho I suppose it might be somewhat better than what I'm using.
The boat I have now is probably excellent in rough water, as long as I
don't need to make any progress!
held off rowing in Gloucester Harbor as the boat I have tends to be
severely slowed down by a head sea (keep in mind that it is NOT a
representative example of its type). Bolger says (in "Small Boats")
that he could not preserve the rough water capability of the Thomaston
Galley, tho I suppose it might be somewhat better than what I'm using.
The boat I have now is probably excellent in rough water, as long as I
don't need to make any progress!
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "rough water" in this case. There is
> rough, and there is "rough." If you mean something less than
breaking
> surf, you might consider the Thomaston Galley. V-bottom for easy
> rowing, with a low deck forward somewhat like a duck boat. There is
a
> coaming to make the effective sheer higher.
>
> Peter
>
> This is actually the third time I have made this suggestion, but the
> former messages have not appeared on the list. I notice that this
> list is much slower than boatdesign, and I wonder if the very large
> message count is responsible.
I'm not sure what you mean by "rough water" in this case. There is
rough, and there is "rough." If you mean something less than breaking
surf, you might consider the Thomaston Galley. V-bottom for easy
rowing, with a low deck forward somewhat like a duck boat. There is a
coaming to make the effective sheer higher.
Peter
This is actually the third time I have made this suggestion, but the
former messages have not appeared on the list. I notice that this
list is much slower than boatdesign, and I wonder if the very large
message count is responsible.
rough, and there is "rough." If you mean something less than breaking
surf, you might consider the Thomaston Galley. V-bottom for easy
rowing, with a low deck forward somewhat like a duck boat. There is a
coaming to make the effective sheer higher.
Peter
This is actually the third time I have made this suggestion, but the
former messages have not appeared on the list. I notice that this
list is much slower than boatdesign, and I wonder if the very large
message count is responsible.
I'd vote for Crystal. It's very (exactly?) similar in hull shape to
Gypsy, but with an inch or two more freeboard. Not especially
difficult to build, probably just a bit tedious fitting all the air
chambers. But through the miracle of epoxy and tape it won't need
perfect carpentry, just an exta big load of goop.
See the photos in Bolger 2, files, "bolger scans" folder. Phil says
she's a fine surf boat, it obviously rows light and easy with two
aboard (see photo of PB abd SA rowing along in same folder)
and "it'll row fine and level with a the water she'll hold".
I'd love one as a tender-lifeboat for my houseboat. You could
probably cobble up a removable-bolt on motor board for use with a
light motor and tiller extension and have it all.
Gypsy, but with an inch or two more freeboard. Not especially
difficult to build, probably just a bit tedious fitting all the air
chambers. But through the miracle of epoxy and tape it won't need
perfect carpentry, just an exta big load of goop.
See the photos in Bolger 2, files, "bolger scans" folder. Phil says
she's a fine surf boat, it obviously rows light and easy with two
aboard (see photo of PB abd SA rowing along in same folder)
and "it'll row fine and level with a the water she'll hold".
I'd love one as a tender-lifeboat for my houseboat. You could
probably cobble up a removable-bolt on motor board for use with a
light motor and tiller extension and have it all.
--- In bolger@y..., "rnlocnil" <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
being a real "surf boat"...I am not so sure I would recommend it. She
handles big waves just fine, it is the breakers that would concern me.
I love her speed but have never been in a Gull, or a Spur II so I
can't compare.
> Anyone got any suggestions or experience with all around rowing boatseems
> that is also very good in waves? Looking at 7% enlarged Gypsy (our
> crew weight would equal total design displacement of Gypsy), but
> more likely that Crystal would be required. Seems like Crystal mightdesign.
> be harder to build. My sorta Roar 2 is just about stopped in a head
> sea, tho that may be because it doesn't really conform to the
> It's plenty dry, though.I love rowing my gypsy through some pretty big chop. But, as far as
being a real "surf boat"...I am not so sure I would recommend it. She
handles big waves just fine, it is the breakers that would concern me.
I love her speed but have never been in a Gull, or a Spur II so I
can't compare.
I'm with David on this one. The Gull types just row so well, I can't
really imagine anything else by Bolger for the purpose. A lot of his
boats are great rowers, but for recreational rowing, this is the
boat. I have been in both the Gloucester Light Dory and the Nymph,
and I think the Gull is much more stable, but it is a hard thing to
estimate, the Nymph's central/longi. seat, which is a great design,
none the less makes moving around difficult, because you can't be
central and low. The keel center panels are a similar width, but the
Nymph is shorter, and more rockered none of which is good for
stability.
really imagine anything else by Bolger for the purpose. A lot of his
boats are great rowers, but for recreational rowing, this is the
boat. I have been in both the Gloucester Light Dory and the Nymph,
and I think the Gull is much more stable, but it is a hard thing to
estimate, the Nymph's central/longi. seat, which is a great design,
none the less makes moving around difficult, because you can't be
central and low. The keel center panels are a similar width, but the
Nymph is shorter, and more rockered none of which is good for
stability.
Total Load: 185 (me)+140 (wife)+100 (dog) +30 (daughter)
I've never been in a Nymph, but I'd bet the Gull is no more tippier.
All things being equal (which in this case they're not) longer boats
are stiffer than short boats.
RE: cartopping
I've got an old volvo wagon now, but I was using a honda civic
before. One big advantage of a long boat on a short car is that when
you and your lift partner put the boat up, the car doesn't get in the
way.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
I've never been in a Nymph, but I'd bet the Gull is no more tippier.
All things being equal (which in this case they're not) longer boats
are stiffer than short boats.
RE: cartopping
I've got an old volvo wagon now, but I was using a honda civic
before. One big advantage of a long boat on a short car is that when
you and your lift partner put the boat up, the car doesn't get in the
way.
YIBB,
David
>We really do change places every time we go out, and I'm not sure we--
>should do this in anything tippier than the Nymph. Maybe we should
>just slither along the bottom when we do this. Underway I'm sure the
>dory is just fine! Your total load is probably the same as ours would
>be. I just recalled that the Stretched Gull is longer than my building
>area!
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> We've made family outings in our Gull, that's myself, my wife, our
>> daughter, and our newfoundland dog. Obviously we had to pay a bit
>> more attention to trim than when I go out solo. The boat handled the
>> weight and moved easily with one person at the oars. Tenderness is a
>> relative thing. I've spent a lot of time in kayaks, and the Gull is
>> quite stiff by comparison. It is quite a bit tiddlier than our Teal,
>> but that's part and parcel of the characteristics that make it
>better
>> under oars and in the surf.
>>
>> I bet the stretched Gull could be set up for two people to row
>> together. That would be a hell of nice boat.
>>
>> -D
>>
>snip
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
We really do change places every time we go out, and I'm not sure we
should do this in anything tippier than the Nymph. Maybe we should
just slither along the bottom when we do this. Underway I'm sure the
dory is just fine! Your total load is probably the same as ours would
be. I just recalled that the Stretched Gull is longer than my building
area!
should do this in anything tippier than the Nymph. Maybe we should
just slither along the bottom when we do this. Underway I'm sure the
dory is just fine! Your total load is probably the same as ours would
be. I just recalled that the Stretched Gull is longer than my building
area!
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> We've made family outings in our Gull, that's myself, my wife, our
> daughter, and our newfoundland dog. Obviously we had to pay a bit
> more attention to trim than when I go out solo. The boat handled the
> weight and moved easily with one person at the oars. Tenderness is a
> relative thing. I've spent a lot of time in kayaks, and the Gull is
> quite stiff by comparison. It is quite a bit tiddlier than our Teal,
> but that's part and parcel of the characteristics that make it
better
> under oars and in the surf.
>
> I bet the stretched Gull could be set up for two people to row
> together. That would be a hell of nice boat.
>
> -D
>
snip
We've made family outings in our Gull, that's myself, my wife, our
daughter, and our newfoundland dog. Obviously we had to pay a bit
more attention to trim than when I go out solo. The boat handled the
weight and moved easily with one person at the oars. Tenderness is a
relative thing. I've spent a lot of time in kayaks, and the Gull is
quite stiff by comparison. It is quite a bit tiddlier than our Teal,
but that's part and parcel of the characteristics that make it better
under oars and in the surf.
I bet the stretched Gull could be set up for two people to row
together. That would be a hell of nice boat.
-D
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
daughter, and our newfoundland dog. Obviously we had to pay a bit
more attention to trim than when I go out solo. The boat handled the
weight and moved easily with one person at the oars. Tenderness is a
relative thing. I've spent a lot of time in kayaks, and the Gull is
quite stiff by comparison. It is quite a bit tiddlier than our Teal,
but that's part and parcel of the characteristics that make it better
under oars and in the surf.
I bet the stretched Gull could be set up for two people to row
together. That would be a hell of nice boat.
-D
>THere is indeed a larger version, tho I'd have to make it in two--
>pieces to cartop it on Saturn SL, I think. Also, I forgot to mention
>that we like to take turns rowing and change places while out on the
>water. I understand that if you don't keep your weight down in these
>dories you will end up in the water. If not for this, I'd consider the
>type 5, which is apparently very similar, tho with all that sheer I
>think it might be tricky to cartop. Would have to build a platform.
>
>P.S. If I ever contemplate fishing from one of these I will definitely
>remember to put on a cleat or something to tie butt end of pole to.
>P.P.S. I have a copy of the plans for Michalak's Oracle, but while it
>is probably not too bad in a chop I doubt if it's a real surf boat as
>angle at bow is not as sharp.
>--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
>> I'm very happy with my Gull going out through surf or into wind
>chop.
>> Isn't there a larger version?
>>
>> -D
>>
>> >Anyone got any suggestions or experience with all around rowing
>boat
>> >that is also very good in waves? Looking at 7% enlarged Gypsy (our
>> >crew weight would equal total design displacement of Gypsy), but
>seems
>> >more likely that Crystal would be required. Seems like Crystal
>might
>> >be harder to build. My sorta Roar 2 is just about stopped in a head
>> >sea, tho that may be because it doesn't really conform to the
>design.
>> >It's plenty dry, though.
>> >
>
>> --
>>
>> C.E.P.
>> 415 W.46th Street
>> New York, New York 10036
>>http://www.crumblingempire.com
>> Mobile (646) 325-8325
>> Office (212) 247-0296
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
THere is indeed a larger version, tho I'd have to make it in two
pieces to cartop it on Saturn SL, I think. Also, I forgot to mention
that we like to take turns rowing and change places while out on the
water. I understand that if you don't keep your weight down in these
dories you will end up in the water. If not for this, I'd consider the
type 5, which is apparently very similar, tho with all that sheer I
think it might be tricky to cartop. Would have to build a platform.
P.S. If I ever contemplate fishing from one of these I will definitely
remember to put on a cleat or something to tie butt end of pole to.
P.P.S. I have a copy of the plans for Michalak's Oracle, but while it
is probably not too bad in a chop I doubt if it's a real surf boat as
angle at bow is not as sharp.
pieces to cartop it on Saturn SL, I think. Also, I forgot to mention
that we like to take turns rowing and change places while out on the
water. I understand that if you don't keep your weight down in these
dories you will end up in the water. If not for this, I'd consider the
type 5, which is apparently very similar, tho with all that sheer I
think it might be tricky to cartop. Would have to build a platform.
P.S. If I ever contemplate fishing from one of these I will definitely
remember to put on a cleat or something to tie butt end of pole to.
P.P.S. I have a copy of the plans for Michalak's Oracle, but while it
is probably not too bad in a chop I doubt if it's a real surf boat as
angle at bow is not as sharp.
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> I'm very happy with my Gull going out through surf or into wind
chop.
> Isn't there a larger version?
>
> -D
>
> >Anyone got any suggestions or experience with all around rowing
boat
> >that is also very good in waves? Looking at 7% enlarged Gypsy (our
> >crew weight would equal total design displacement of Gypsy), but
seems
> >more likely that Crystal would be required. Seems like Crystal
might
> >be harder to build. My sorta Roar 2 is just about stopped in a head
> >sea, tho that may be because it doesn't really conform to the
design.
> >It's plenty dry, though.
> >
> --
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
I'm very happy with my Gull going out through surf or into wind chop.
Isn't there a larger version?
-D
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Isn't there a larger version?
-D
>Anyone got any suggestions or experience with all around rowing boat--
>that is also very good in waves? Looking at 7% enlarged Gypsy (our
>crew weight would equal total design displacement of Gypsy), but seems
>more likely that Crystal would be required. Seems like Crystal might
>be harder to build. My sorta Roar 2 is just about stopped in a head
>sea, tho that may be because it doesn't really conform to the design.
>It's plenty dry, though.
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Anyone got any suggestions or experience with all around rowing boat
that is also very good in waves? Looking at 7% enlarged Gypsy (our
crew weight would equal total design displacement of Gypsy), but seems
more likely that Crystal would be required. Seems like Crystal might
be harder to build. My sorta Roar 2 is just about stopped in a head
sea, tho that may be because it doesn't really conform to the design.
It's plenty dry, though.
that is also very good in waves? Looking at 7% enlarged Gypsy (our
crew weight would equal total design displacement of Gypsy), but seems
more likely that Crystal would be required. Seems like Crystal might
be harder to build. My sorta Roar 2 is just about stopped in a head
sea, tho that may be because it doesn't really conform to the design.
It's plenty dry, though.