[bolger] Re: CSD/CSB Pirogue
david wrote:
> Ooops:
> I never built the sailing rig for my Tortoise, and I didn't realize
> that it was a lanteen. Thanks for not pointing out my other error,
> calling a "sprit" a "sprint"--the result of my placing too much trust
> in a very unnautical spell checker (damn you, Bill Gates). The only
> real disadvantage I can see for the Nymph rig is that the mast won't
> fit in the cockpit of the Pirogue. You can make a breakdown mast
> fairly easily, however, if that's an issue, or lash the mast on deck
> (making it hell to row the thing, but paddles will still work). Please
> report on your results, have fun, and remind your wife that
> boatbuilding (even thinking about boatbuilding) keeps a man too busy
> too think about other things (like other women). If I built every boat
> I have plans for, my entire 14 acres would be packed solid with them.
> As it is, I'm getting close,
> david
>
>bgbeck55@...wrote:
>
>>bgbeck5-@...wrote:
>> Thanks for the info, David. At least I was on the right track. I
>> figured a daggerboard in the same location as the leeboard, with the
>>
>> same underwater area would be the way to go. I had also contemplated
>> an
>> "off-centerboard" with the same underwater shape and area as the
>> leeboard.
>> The sail I was looking at as a replacement to the sprit was the
>> one
>> shown for the "Nymph". It's a 40 sq.ft. leg-o-mutton. I figured the
>> 59sq.ft. one would be over doing it. Tortise has a lateen sail, and
>> I've never really cared for those. Luckily, Jim Michalak just wrote
>> up
>> a series on leg-o-muttons in polytarp. He calls them "sharpie sprit
>> sails".
>> I think my place would be like yours; "littered with boats" if I
>> had
>> a yard to build in. As it is, a friend will let me build "A" boat in
>>
>> his backyard, as long as we can get out of the backyard without
>> demolishing the fence. My wife gets after me about having "too many"
>>
>> sets of boat plans and related books. Women just don't have their
>> priorities straight.
>>
>
>
bgbeck5-@...wrote:
Thanks for the info, David. At least I was on the right track. I
figured a daggerboard in the same location as the leeboard, with the
same underwater area would be the way to go. I had also contemplated an
"off-centerboard" with the same underwater shape and area as the
leeboard.
The sail I was looking at as a replacement to the sprit was the one
shown for the "Nymph". It's a 40 sq.ft. leg-o-mutton. I figured the
59sq.ft. one would be over doing it. Tortise has a lateen sail, and
I've never really cared for those. Luckily, Jim Michalak just wrote up
a series on leg-o-muttons in polytarp. He calls them "sharpie sprit
sails".
I think my place would be like yours; "littered with boats" if I had
a yard to build in. As it is, a friend will let me build "A" boat in
his backyard, as long as we can get out of the backyard without
demolishing the fence. My wife gets after me about having "too many"
sets of boat plans and related books. Women just don't have their
priorities straight.
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=265
Thanks for the info, David. At least I was on the right track. I
figured a daggerboard in the same location as the leeboard, with the
same underwater area would be the way to go. I had also contemplated an
"off-centerboard" with the same underwater shape and area as the
leeboard.
The sail I was looking at as a replacement to the sprit was the one
shown for the "Nymph". It's a 40 sq.ft. leg-o-mutton. I figured the
59sq.ft. one would be over doing it. Tortise has a lateen sail, and
I've never really cared for those. Luckily, Jim Michalak just wrote up
a series on leg-o-muttons in polytarp. He calls them "sharpie sprit
sails".
I think my place would be like yours; "littered with boats" if I had
a yard to build in. As it is, a friend will let me build "A" boat in
his backyard, as long as we can get out of the backyard without
demolishing the fence. My wife gets after me about having "too many"
sets of boat plans and related books. Women just don't have their
priorities straight.
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=265
> Bruce:the
> I placed my daggerboard exactly inboard of the location indicated for
> leeboard on the Pirogue, and kept the underwater area the same. Ithink the
> pivoting leeboard is an excellent idea. If considering a change insailplan,
> it is of course important to locate the sail's center of area onabout the
> same point above the waterline as that of the original sail. TheCSD/CSB
> Pirogue uses a 39 sq. ft. sail, however, and the sail I think you areis 59
> referring to (as specified for Cartopper, Teal, Rubin's Nymph, et al)
> sq. ft. and has a higher center than the Pirogue's sprint sail. Abetter
> choice, imho, would be the 35 sq. ft. leg-o-mutton specified for thecrew, or
> Tortoise, unless you plan to sail only in light winds, carry heavy
> enjoy hiking out a lot and sailing the hairy edge, and don't mind theor Tyvek
> occasional capsize. You could try the rig with a cheap plastic tarp
> sail before committing to Dacron, or plan on building one of theother boats
> if the rig doesn't work out on the Pirogue, but watch out. Thinkinglike
> that is part of the reason my place is littered with boats,on
> david
>
>bgbeck55@...wrote:
>
> >bgbeck5-@...wrote:
> > Thanks for the information David. I was also thinking of replacing
> > the lee-
> > board with a daggerboard ala "Windsprint". I may just go with a
> > pivoting lee-
> > board like Jim Michialak advocates. Where did you place the
> > dagger-board? In the same location as the lee-board? I've also been
> > thinking of writing to PCB about whether or not the smaller leg'o
> > mutton sail that is used on some of the smaller boats that Harold
> > Payson sells plans for, could also be used on Pirogue. Any thoughts
> > that?
> > Thanks again.
> > Bruce
> >
> >
Bruce:
I placed my daggerboard exactly inboard of the location indicated for the
leeboard on the Pirogue, and kept the underwater area the same. I think the
pivoting leeboard is an excellent idea. If considering a change in sailplan,
it is of course important to locate the sail's center of area on about the
same point above the waterline as that of the original sail. The CSD/CSB
Pirogue uses a 39 sq. ft. sail, however, and the sail I think you are
referring to (as specified for Cartopper, Teal, Rubin's Nymph, et al) is 59
sq. ft. and has a higher center than the Pirogue's sprint sail. A better
choice, imho, would be the 35 sq. ft. leg-o-mutton specified for the
Tortoise, unless you plan to sail only in light winds, carry heavy crew, or
enjoy hiking out a lot and sailing the hairy edge, and don't mind the
occasional capsize. You could try the rig with a cheap plastic tarp or Tyvek
sail before committing to Dacron, or plan on building one of the other boats
if the rig doesn't work out on the Pirogue, but watch out. Thinking like
that is part of the reason my place is littered with boats,
david
bgbeck55@...wrote:
I placed my daggerboard exactly inboard of the location indicated for the
leeboard on the Pirogue, and kept the underwater area the same. I think the
pivoting leeboard is an excellent idea. If considering a change in sailplan,
it is of course important to locate the sail's center of area on about the
same point above the waterline as that of the original sail. The CSD/CSB
Pirogue uses a 39 sq. ft. sail, however, and the sail I think you are
referring to (as specified for Cartopper, Teal, Rubin's Nymph, et al) is 59
sq. ft. and has a higher center than the Pirogue's sprint sail. A better
choice, imho, would be the 35 sq. ft. leg-o-mutton specified for the
Tortoise, unless you plan to sail only in light winds, carry heavy crew, or
enjoy hiking out a lot and sailing the hairy edge, and don't mind the
occasional capsize. You could try the rig with a cheap plastic tarp or Tyvek
sail before committing to Dacron, or plan on building one of the other boats
if the rig doesn't work out on the Pirogue, but watch out. Thinking like
that is part of the reason my place is littered with boats,
david
bgbeck55@...wrote:
>bgbeck5-@...wrote:
> Thanks for the information David. I was also thinking of replacing
> the lee-
> board with a daggerboard ala "Windsprint". I may just go with a
> pivoting lee-
> board like Jim Michialak advocates. Where did you place the
> dagger-board? In the same location as the lee-board? I've also been
> thinking of writing to PCB about whether or not the smaller leg'o
> mutton sail that is used on some of the smaller boats that Harold
> Payson sells plans for, could also be used on Pirogue. Any thoughts on
> that?
> Thanks again.
> Bruce
>
>
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I give kick up leeboards two thumbs up! Removes a certain angst factor
in shollow waters. The have to be placed at the widest part of the hull.
djb
bgbeck55@...wrote:
the lee-
board with a daggerboard ala "Windsprint". I may just go with a
pivoting lee-
board like Jim Michialak advocates. Where did you place the
dagger-board? In the same location as the lee-board? I've also been
thinking of writing to PCB about whether or not the smaller leg'o
mutton sail that is used on some of the smaller boats that Harold
Payson sells plans for, could also be used on Pirogue. Any thoughts on
that?
Thanks again.
Bruce
Simplicity Boats (mirror sites - if one doesn't work...)
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/
http://members.xoom.com/simpleboats/
Here's my latest boat:
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/featherwind.html
Quasi esoteric musical instruments
unicornstrings.com
in shollow waters. The have to be placed at the widest part of the hull.
djb
bgbeck55@...wrote:
>Thanks for the information David. I was also thinking of replacing
>bgbeck5-@...wrote:
the lee-
board with a daggerboard ala "Windsprint". I may just go with a
pivoting lee-
board like Jim Michialak advocates. Where did you place the
dagger-board? In the same location as the lee-board? I've also been
thinking of writing to PCB about whether or not the smaller leg'o
mutton sail that is used on some of the smaller boats that Harold
Payson sells plans for, could also be used on Pirogue. Any thoughts on
that?
Thanks again.
Bruce
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Onvia.com. Work. Wisely.]
> eGroups.com home:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
> www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
Simplicity Boats (mirror sites - if one doesn't work...)
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/
http://members.xoom.com/simpleboats/
Here's my latest boat:
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/featherwind.html
Quasi esoteric musical instruments
unicornstrings.com
bgbeck5-@...wrote:
Thanks for the information David. I was also thinking of replacing
the lee-
board with a daggerboard ala "Windsprint". I may just go with a
pivoting lee-
board like Jim Michialak advocates. Where did you place the
dagger-board? In the same location as the lee-board? I've also been
thinking of writing to PCB about whether or not the smaller leg'o
mutton sail that is used on some of the smaller boats that Harold
Payson sells plans for, could also be used on Pirogue. Any thoughts on
that?
Thanks again.
Bruce
Thanks for the information David. I was also thinking of replacing
the lee-
board with a daggerboard ala "Windsprint". I may just go with a
pivoting lee-
board like Jim Michialak advocates. Where did you place the
dagger-board? In the same location as the lee-board? I've also been
thinking of writing to PCB about whether or not the smaller leg'o
mutton sail that is used on some of the smaller boats that Harold
Payson sells plans for, could also be used on Pirogue. Any thoughts on
that?
Thanks again.
Bruce
Bruce:
I built a 16' Pirogue in 1/4" luan with maple and black walnut framing
(!!!). Yeah, I know, pretty fancy, but such stuff is cheap here in the
Catskills if you buy it from the mill. My boat is finished bright, with
bronze fittings, and I built an offset daggerboard box instead of a
leeboard. The result of these modifications is that the boat is, at over
ninety pounds, really too heavy for me to cartop. In the water the boat
shines--sails close to the wind, paddles and rows like it's on a track, and
is stable and dry. If I were to do it again, I would concentrate on keeping
it light (even leaving out the floatation in favor of sealed airspaces), and
figuring out a kickup rudder and leeboard (the rocks here are numerous and
hard). The steering line that Bolger suggests is okay, but I think a
push-pull tiller (I forget the official name) would be less of a hassle to
set up and would provide more control. I think I would seriously consider
1/8" doorskin plywood for the decking fore and aft, to save further weight.
The side decks should be 1/4" because you will be sitting and stepping on
them, but the bows only shelter the floatation foam (and an occasional
deermouse, in my case), and can be shaved thin. Lightening the boat would
also increase payload, but, for the use I've put it to, that hasn't been a
problem. The sprint rig is compact and easy to handle. As I have said, it is
stable. Of course, I have not tried it in high winds or seas (it ain't
designed for that), but it handles a 15 knot breeze and powerboat wakes
without anxiety. You would have a hard time flipping it on it's side. The
boat is big enough for daysailing 2-3 adults, and I have packed my two kids,
and camping gear for a week, on board without difficulty. As designed, the
bottom is sturdy and firm--my Pirogue slipped off the roof rack on my Saturn
a couple of years ago , bounced off the hood and windshield of the car, hit
the concrete launching ramp I was parked on, and slid eight feet into the
water, happy as a duck. The car was a mess(especially the windshield), but
the boat only lost some bottom paint and a minute amount of epoxy. Oh yeah,
like all my boats, I used six-ounce fiberglass cloth on the outside, but
two-ounce would be plenty (I bought a hundred yards of the six-ounce stuff
years ago and finally used it up last Spring). I think that, for any
reasonable use, the boat is ideal. Damned easy to build, too...
david
bgbeck55@...wrote:
I built a 16' Pirogue in 1/4" luan with maple and black walnut framing
(!!!). Yeah, I know, pretty fancy, but such stuff is cheap here in the
Catskills if you buy it from the mill. My boat is finished bright, with
bronze fittings, and I built an offset daggerboard box instead of a
leeboard. The result of these modifications is that the boat is, at over
ninety pounds, really too heavy for me to cartop. In the water the boat
shines--sails close to the wind, paddles and rows like it's on a track, and
is stable and dry. If I were to do it again, I would concentrate on keeping
it light (even leaving out the floatation in favor of sealed airspaces), and
figuring out a kickup rudder and leeboard (the rocks here are numerous and
hard). The steering line that Bolger suggests is okay, but I think a
push-pull tiller (I forget the official name) would be less of a hassle to
set up and would provide more control. I think I would seriously consider
1/8" doorskin plywood for the decking fore and aft, to save further weight.
The side decks should be 1/4" because you will be sitting and stepping on
them, but the bows only shelter the floatation foam (and an occasional
deermouse, in my case), and can be shaved thin. Lightening the boat would
also increase payload, but, for the use I've put it to, that hasn't been a
problem. The sprint rig is compact and easy to handle. As I have said, it is
stable. Of course, I have not tried it in high winds or seas (it ain't
designed for that), but it handles a 15 knot breeze and powerboat wakes
without anxiety. You would have a hard time flipping it on it's side. The
boat is big enough for daysailing 2-3 adults, and I have packed my two kids,
and camping gear for a week, on board without difficulty. As designed, the
bottom is sturdy and firm--my Pirogue slipped off the roof rack on my Saturn
a couple of years ago , bounced off the hood and windshield of the car, hit
the concrete launching ramp I was parked on, and slid eight feet into the
water, happy as a duck. The car was a mess(especially the windshield), but
the boat only lost some bottom paint and a minute amount of epoxy. Oh yeah,
like all my boats, I used six-ounce fiberglass cloth on the outside, but
two-ounce would be plenty (I bought a hundred yards of the six-ounce stuff
years ago and finally used it up last Spring). I think that, for any
reasonable use, the boat is ideal. Damned easy to build, too...
david
bgbeck55@...wrote:
> Hi everybody!
> Has anyone got any experience with the Common Sense Designs/Boats
> Pirogue?
> Either building or using or both? I really enjoy your site. No petty
> bickering
> about which way to do things is "best".
> Bruce
>
>
Hi everybody!
Has anyone got any experience with the Common Sense Designs/Boats
Pirogue?
Either building or using or both? I really enjoy your site. No petty
bickering
about which way to do things is "best".
Bruce
Has anyone got any experience with the Common Sense Designs/Boats
Pirogue?
Either building or using or both? I really enjoy your site. No petty
bickering
about which way to do things is "best".
Bruce