Re: WDJ Second trip

Bjorn,

I admire your adventuring spirit with five kids.

Perhaps I can speak to the flag etiquette question.

Traditionally, the national flag on a gaff vessel should be flown
from the leech of the aftmost sail, just a little below the peak.
Especially on a schooner, this is the traditional place of honor.
This business of flying an ensign from a stern staff is modern
stinkpot nonsense in the eyes of tradtional schoonermen.

The flag of the country being visited (the "courtesy flag") can be
flown from the foremast head (fore truck) on a "pig stick" or short
staff.

Even if you traveled to France, I think the locals would find your
flag display appropriate.

Best,

George

--- In bolger@y..., "Bjorn Harbo" <bharbo@o...> wrote:
> Speaking about proper gaff sail handling:
> I plan to sail down the coast to Sweden and Denmark next season.
When
> going abroad one is supposed to carry ones own flag on the transome
> and the flag of the nation to visit on a halyard fixed to the
> starboard spreader.
>
> I have searched everywhere for information on how to do this on an
> unstayed gaffrigged schooner. Nothing so far. Any ideas?
> Bjørn
Hello Bruce,
I can second the part about Norwegians being conformists. At least
the boating part of the population certainly is. I am not sure about
the house paint color thing. In my neighbourhood in Oslo the houses
have all kinds of colors - red, blue, yellow, white, brown, green,
grey, cream and the hospital where I work is light lila (or is that
violet?)
Please come and visit me next time you are in Norway. My best regards
to your wife! Where is she from?

PS: I have been following the building process of your Spur II (That
was you, wasn't it?). I have had the plans for a couple of years and
am itching to build one. However my wife and boss is not exactly wild
about my starting a new project. Of all things she thinks that our
house (built 1939) needs lifting!

Bjørn
Paul,
Thanks a lot for your long, informative and interesting post. I will
try to activate my five kids in a navy like manner when we are going
out in the schooner this week end. There is a string for everybody to
pull!
Btw: I do raise the sail with the gaff horizontal (since I have no
gaff experience I did not dare to go out without having read the
apropriate gaff literature...). It didn't point out the need to top
up the boom though.

Speaking about proper gaff sail handling:
I plan to sail down the coast to Sweden and Denmark next season. When
going abroad one is supposed to carry ones own flag on the transome
and the flag of the nation to visit on a halyard fixed to the
starboard spreader.

I have searched everywhere for information on how to do this on an
unstayed gaffrigged schooner. Nothing so far. Any ideas?
Bjørn
Hi Bruce,
The stuff they make here in the US, the commercial stuff anyway, is
a dark gray, various closeness of weave for different shade
strengths, and sprayed with something that does rub off. Not easily
but if you lean up against it will come off. It also is sold as
a "Two year, five year and ten year" cloth, or something like that.

Jules

--- In bolger@y..., Bruce Fountain <fountainb@s...> wrote:
> On 2002.09.17 22:54 lulalake_1999 wrote:
> > Paul,
> >
> > Good ideas about making the mini Navy. I will incorporate a
few of
> > your ideas into my sailboat.
> > .I have a friend with greenhouses that have shadecloth however
the
> > stuff is nasty. It sheds some kind of dusty stuff that stains
> > everything if you happen to rub up against it, Also it's
gray/black.
> > Where did you get your shadecloth?
>
> In Australia shadecloth is readily available (for obvious reasons)
> from pretty much any hardware you walk into. The traditional colour
> is green, but they started making a beige version in the '80s and
> that is pretty much endemic now.
>
> The stuff is a woven mesh, fairly close and rough to the touch. It
> dries quickly, is UV resistant and cheap. Very useful stuff.
>
> I have never seen it shed unless it is very old and breaking down.
>
> Bruce Fountain
On 2002.09.17 22:54 lulalake_1999 wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Good ideas about making the mini Navy. I will incorporate a few of
> your ideas into my sailboat.
> .I have a friend with greenhouses that have shadecloth however the
> stuff is nasty. It sheds some kind of dusty stuff that stains
> everything if you happen to rub up against it, Also it's gray/black.
> Where did you get your shadecloth?

In Australia shadecloth is readily available (for obvious reasons)
from pretty much any hardware you walk into. The traditional colour
is green, but they started making a beige version in the '80s and
that is pretty much endemic now.

The stuff is a woven mesh, fairly close and rough to the touch. It
dries quickly, is UV resistant and cheap. Very useful stuff.

I have never seen it shed unless it is very old and breaking down.

Bruce Fountain
>From: "Bjorn Harbo" <bharbo@...>
> what the h... this was supposed to be...
> the WDJ is the only gaff rigged sailboat.

I'm a Californian, married to a
Norwegian. I have a well informed
(& biased) impression of Norwegians.

In general, on whole, they feel a
greater need 'to conform' than the
typical Californian. For instance,
in much of Norway, when you
want to paint your house, you
go buy 'house paint', the color is
not an option. There is only one
color of house paint available.

To use another color is unthinkable!

For most of those in this group,
the 'Different Boats' 'Odd Boats'
'Boats With An Open Mind' quality
of PCB's boat designs is a major
appeal.

Fans of Phil Bolger tend not
to be conformists.

Many around here may not
appreciate the extent of
social pressure you must
be feeling by owning a non-
conforming boat in Norway.

Bjorn, you are *really* an
'odd man out'...and I hope
to meet you someday!

BTW, on my three visits to Norway
I was very much impressed at the
number and quality of excellent
wooden boats.

Bruce Hallman
Paul,

Good ideas about making the mini Navy. I will incorporate a few of
your ideas into my sailboat.

.I have a friend with greenhouses that have shadecloth however the
stuff is nasty. It sheds some kind of dusty stuff that stains
everything if you happen to rub up against it, Also it's gray/black.
Where did you get your shadecloth?

Thanks

Jules





--- In bolger@y..., "pauldayau" <wattleweedooseeds@b...> wrote:
> Bjorn . perhaps the problem arrises in the way the gaff is raised.
I
> crew whenever I can on a 130 ' barquentine with 2 gaff sails . with
> 20 people on each halyard and a 6:1 pulley system .
> The problem comes from gaff jaws pushing against the mast.
> When raising the peak is raised slightly ahead of the throat until
> the throat is tight , then peak up the gaff.
> Ie the gaff is almost flat.
> When lowering the gaff is again flat with tthe peak slightly
lower
> than the throat.
> Like yuorself i am a recently self appointed 'schooner man' in our
> folding schooner.
> i love the bit where the kids just wander all over the place,not
> realizing that dad is going crazy trying to balance the boat.
> we recently sailed with some other boats where all the other kids
> had to sit in an assigned spot and not miove. When we offered to
take
> them all for a sail the parents were abandoned to watch. One 8
year
> old was rapped that I gave him the helm after his dad wouldnt let
> him even toucha sheet rope.
> Back to the gaff sails .
> I tried the system above and it has made it alot easier . i find i
> can give a halyard each to the kids and stay at the helm andgive
> instuctions.
> I usually go forrard and tension the halyards after the kis move
to
> the next sail.
> .
> Another thing I've painted on under the tiller is a series of
> radiating lines with the appropriate angles written on. EG port
> 10,port 20, starboard10, st 20....... out to 30 deg.
> I can now move around the boat and call instructions to the kids.
My
> 5 year old can steer quite well in light conditions.
> " STARBOARD 20" " STARBOARD 20 ON DADDY"
> Its a good challenge to lay on the bow ,look forward and call
out
> without looking back.
> Another good Idea that I use when there are lots of people around
is
> to get people to sound off. When you all board asign a number toall
> the crew ie, 1,2,3,4,5,6,........
> When you are changing coarse after a long leg or just about to get
a
> big squall or put in a reef you shout the command "SOUND OFF".
> The crew and passengers all call out in order ie 5 doesnt call out
> until 4 has, etc.
> This is a good way to wake em all up and into action . Also helps
to
> avoid wettig you wife who is sunbathing on th soon to be leeward
side
> the kids love it.
> If you can divide them into 2 groups or 'watches'you get quite a
> good competition going. especialy when yuo call out "form watches
> for snack break"
> Last hint. Ive placed, cloth pouches all over the boat for 'bits '
> every body has picked up the bad habit of leaving small things,
and
> bits of clothingall over the floor and decks Add this all to the
> halyardsand sheets and youllunderstand how I managed to trip
> overboard into our Freezing lake 12 deg C. (thats our version of
> winter)
> I made pouches from a cream SHADECLOTH, ie something rotproofand
> partially see-through. They basically have a wide mouth held
closed
> with shockcord and hang all over the boat.
> Captains rule 'STOW IT LOSE IT'. at pack up time all those wet
> socks,lolly wrappers , hairclips ( this is what i slipped on whilst
> standing and rowing) all get emptied into a bag and sorted at home.
> gosh that was a long post
> cheers Paul
Bjorn . perhaps the problem arrises in the way the gaff is raised. I
crew whenever I can on a 130 ' barquentine with 2 gaff sails . with
20 people on each halyard and a 6:1 pulley system .
The problem comes from gaff jaws pushing against the mast.
When raising the peak is raised slightly ahead of the throat until
the throat is tight , then peak up the gaff.
Ie the gaff is almost flat.
When lowering the gaff is again flat with tthe peak slightly lower
than the throat.
Like yuorself i am a recently self appointed 'schooner man' in our
folding schooner.
i love the bit where the kids just wander all over the place,not
realizing that dad is going crazy trying to balance the boat.
we recently sailed with some other boats where all the other kids
had to sit in an assigned spot and not miove. When we offered to take
them all for a sail the parents were abandoned to watch. One 8 year
old was rapped that I gave him the helm after his dad wouldnt let
him even toucha sheet rope.
Back to the gaff sails .
I tried the system above and it has made it alot easier . i find i
can give a halyard each to the kids and stay at the helm andgive
instuctions.
I usually go forrard and tension the halyards after the kis move to
the next sail.
.
Another thing I've painted on under the tiller is a series of
radiating lines with the appropriate angles written on. EG port
10,port 20, starboard10, st 20....... out to 30 deg.
I can now move around the boat and call instructions to the kids. My
5 year old can steer quite well in light conditions.
" STARBOARD 20" " STARBOARD 20 ON DADDY"
Its a good challenge to lay on the bow ,look forward and call out
without looking back.
Another good Idea that I use when there are lots of people around is
to get people to sound off. When you all board asign a number toall
the crew ie, 1,2,3,4,5,6,........
When you are changing coarse after a long leg or just about to get a
big squall or put in a reef you shout the command "SOUND OFF".
The crew and passengers all call out in order ie 5 doesnt call out
until 4 has, etc.
This is a good way to wake em all up and into action . Also helps to
avoid wettig you wife who is sunbathing on th soon to be leeward side
the kids love it.
If you can divide them into 2 groups or 'watches'you get quite a
good competition going. especialy when yuo call out "form watches
for snack break"
Last hint. Ive placed, cloth pouches all over the boat for 'bits '
every body has picked up the bad habit of leaving small things, and
bits of clothingall over the floor and decks Add this all to the
halyardsand sheets and youllunderstand how I managed to trip
overboard into our Freezing lake 12 deg C. (thats our version of
winter)
I made pouches from a cream SHADECLOTH, ie something rotproofand
partially see-through. They basically have a wide mouth held closed
with shockcord and hang all over the boat.
Captains rule 'STOW IT LOSE IT'. at pack up time all those wet
socks,lolly wrappers , hairclips ( this is what i slipped on whilst
standing and rowing) all get emptied into a bag and sorted at home.
gosh that was a long post
cheers Paul
My sailmaker has a huge ego and knew exactly what kind of sail I
needed when I ordered the wardrobe three years ago. He absolutely
wanted me to have battens and a wide roach in both the main and the
foresail. I pointed out that the designer explicitely recommended
unbattened sails. He responded by rolling his eyes and take a deep
sigh. I showed him the complete plans and particulars for the boat.
In Norway you only see gaff sails on the heavy Colin Archers. He
probably did not pay attention to the light displacement of the WDJ
and made sail of cloth heavy enough for tall ship! I have given up
arguing with him and will accept the sails as they are. They are
beautifully made - just far too heavy and will probably last far
longer as the boat...
I don't know why it is that it was easy to peak the sail on sunday
only that I raised the booms so much that I had wrinkles in the leach
after having peaked the peak(..). Letting the topping lifts go the
sail had a perfect shape with wrinkles from the peak to the tack.
--- In bolger@y..., "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...> wrote:
> no problem.
>
> Not sure how the topping lifts not being activated would keep you
from being
> able to peak up the gaff.
>
> I can see how they would take some of the weight off, and make it
easier to
> peak the gaff. However, them being tight interfers with the shape
of the
> sail, no? The 159sq ft main on my Chebacco isn't hard to peak up,
and I'm
> only using one part tackle.
>
> Just how heavy did your sailmaker make your sails?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bjorn Harbo" <bharbo@o...>
> To: <bolger@y...>
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:02 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: WDJ Second trip
>
>
> > Sorry, I think "Topping Lift" is the correct word (doubles as lazy
> > jacks on the WDJ)
> > --- In bolger@y..., "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...> wrote:
> > > Welcome to the gaff club.
> > >
> > > What are "boom lifts"?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and
<snip> away
> > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@y...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
no problem.

Not sure how the topping lifts not being activated would keep you from being
able to peak up the gaff.

I can see how they would take some of the weight off, and make it easier to
peak the gaff. However, them being tight interfers with the shape of the
sail, no? The 159sq ft main on my Chebacco isn't hard to peak up, and I'm
only using one part tackle.

Just how heavy did your sailmaker make your sails?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjorn Harbo" <bharbo@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:02 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: WDJ Second trip


> Sorry, I think "Topping Lift" is the correct word (doubles as lazy
> jacks on the WDJ)
> --- In bolger@y..., "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...> wrote:
> > Welcome to the gaff club.
> >
> > What are "boom lifts"?
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Sorry, I think "Topping Lift" is the correct word (doubles as lazy
jacks on the WDJ)
--- In bolger@y..., "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...> wrote:
> Welcome to the gaff club.
>
> What are "boom lifts"?
Welcome to the gaff club.

What are "boom lifts"?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bjorn Harbo" <bharbo@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:17 AM
Subject: [bolger] WDJ Second trip


Hello Group,
I had an absolutely wonderful trip yesterday. We were seven on board,
three more or less grown ups and four kids. They were all over the
place and I often had problems consentrating on steering and sail
trim. The wind was almost absent and we flew all four sails. Must
have been an amazing sight! Believe it or not: we outsailed two 30 ft
production boats with trad Bermuda rig!
Peaking up the main was no problem at all after I found out that the
boom lifts have to be activated...
The WDJ draws attention everywhere. Other boats came by and enquired
about what the h... this was supposed to be... My boat club has more
than 1000 members and I don't know how many boats. I walked through
all 9 pontons yesterday (probably more than 400 boats: the WDJ is the
only gaff rigged sailboat. Thinking back: the only gaff rigged sail
boats I have seen in Oslo are the Colin Archer rescue and pilot boats.
Bjørn (novice schooner captain..)



Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hello Group,
I had an absolutely wonderful trip yesterday. We were seven on board,
three more or less grown ups and four kids. They were all over the
place and I often had problems consentrating on steering and sail
trim. The wind was almost absent and we flew all four sails. Must
have been an amazing sight! Believe it or not: we outsailed two 30 ft
production boats with trad Bermuda rig!
Peaking up the main was no problem at all after I found out that the
boom lifts have to be activated...
The WDJ draws attention everywhere. Other boats came by and enquired
about what the h... this was supposed to be... My boat club has more
than 1000 members and I don't know how many boats. I walked through
all 9 pontons yesterday (probably more than 400 boats: the WDJ is the
only gaff rigged sailboat. Thinking back: the only gaff rigged sail
boats I have seen in Oslo are the Colin Archer rescue and pilot boats.
Bjørn (novice schooner captain..)