Re: [bolger] Fir/Douglasfir was Re: Bolger on wood.
If you are talking about western red cedar thats great . Its hard it get in the midwest. Try to pick boards with red wood . its the white sap wood that rots. Its great for windowboxes too
CCG
boatbuilding@...wrote:> Seems like there'd be no need for Doug Fir in Sneakeasy in
when I asked about Cedar, he said that was just fine since it
held glue well and was strong enough. It's somewhat rot
resistant but not like it used to be with the old growth.
I have found that cedar is easy to find and if your willing to
do a bit of sanding, it can be found at fencing supply stores
reasonable. It sands easy by the way. Smells great too!
Maybe the Sneakeasy is the same as the Wyo. The frame material
is just to hold a shape and supply a good glue joint for the
plywood panels.
Jeff
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CCG
boatbuilding@...wrote:> Seems like there'd be no need for Doug Fir in Sneakeasy in
> the first place.On my Wyoming, Mr. Bolger called for DF for the nailers but
when I asked about Cedar, he said that was just fine since it
held glue well and was strong enough. It's somewhat rot
resistant but not like it used to be with the old growth.
I have found that cedar is easy to find and if your willing to
do a bit of sanding, it can be found at fencing supply stores
reasonable. It sands easy by the way. Smells great too!
Maybe the Sneakeasy is the same as the Wyo. The frame material
is just to hold a shape and supply a good glue joint for the
plywood panels.
Jeff
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Hi Jeff,
I hope you are wearing a dust mask when sanding red cedar. The dust
is supposed to be quite toxic.
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., <boatbuilding@g...> wrote
I hope you are wearing a dust mask when sanding red cedar. The dust
is supposed to be quite toxic.
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., <boatbuilding@g...> wrote
> >>
> I have found that cedar is easy to find and if your willing to
> do a bit of sanding, it can be found at fencing supply stores
> reasonable. It sands easy by the way. Smells great too!
>
> Maybe the Sneakeasy is the same as the Wyo. The frame material
> is just to hold a shape and supply a good glue joint for the
> plywood panels.
>
> Jeff
Rick,
I learned a long time ago that the best material to make boat frames
from is Port Orford Cedar(chamaecyparis lawsoniana). It is not an
actual Cedar but its family is from "Cupressaceae" or a member of the
cypress family. It is completely rot resistant and never warps or
shrinks. It is a light colored wood and highly prized in Japan
because it is so alike one of their sacred trees to build shrines
from. Myself personally, I would rather see it used in the US as a
boat building material than sacrifice it to Japan to fashion Shinto
shrines. Another wood that has near the same characteristics as The
Port Orford Cedar id Alaskan Cedar but it is not as fine grained and
therefore is harder to finish. It also is from the family
of "Cupressaceae". While not as strong as White Oak, Port Orford
Cedar it is more beautiful and resistant to rot. When frames are
exposed, Port Orford Cedar is the best looking wood I can think of
that is indigenous to the US for building. I urge everyone to ask
your local dealer to stock it for your use. It works easily and
varnishes to a finish that has to be seen in person to appreciate the
different hues and brilliance that slight changes of angle afford.
Here in Oregon it is relatively inexpensive so I hope it would be
everywhere in the US.
John
I learned a long time ago that the best material to make boat frames
from is Port Orford Cedar(chamaecyparis lawsoniana). It is not an
actual Cedar but its family is from "Cupressaceae" or a member of the
cypress family. It is completely rot resistant and never warps or
shrinks. It is a light colored wood and highly prized in Japan
because it is so alike one of their sacred trees to build shrines
from. Myself personally, I would rather see it used in the US as a
boat building material than sacrifice it to Japan to fashion Shinto
shrines. Another wood that has near the same characteristics as The
Port Orford Cedar id Alaskan Cedar but it is not as fine grained and
therefore is harder to finish. It also is from the family
of "Cupressaceae". While not as strong as White Oak, Port Orford
Cedar it is more beautiful and resistant to rot. When frames are
exposed, Port Orford Cedar is the best looking wood I can think of
that is indigenous to the US for building. I urge everyone to ask
your local dealer to stock it for your use. It works easily and
varnishes to a finish that has to be seen in person to appreciate the
different hues and brilliance that slight changes of angle afford.
Here in Oregon it is relatively inexpensive so I hope it would be
everywhere in the US.
John
--- In bolger@y..., sctree@d... wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> What is this cedar you are buying?
> I mean, do you know what species tree it is from?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
>
> boatbuilding@g... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On my Wyoming, Mr. Bolger called for DF for the nailers but
> > when I asked about Cedar, he said that was just fine since it
> > held glue well and was strong enough. It's somewhat rot
> > resistant but not like it used to be with the old growth.
> >
> > I have found that cedar is easy to find and if your willing to
> > do a bit of sanding, it can be found at fencing supply stores
> > reasonable. It sands easy by the way. Smells great too!
> >
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> In what form (i.e. size, rough? milled?) at what price doAt least out here in Colorado, it's Western Red Cedar. Just
> the fence places carry it? Is this red or white cedar?
> Thanks.
what that is exactly I'm not sure but Mr. Bolger new of it.
At the fencing supply they have it all from 6x6 to 2x2. I buy
the 2x4 and rip them for the 2x2's. It's not really rough but
it doesn't have a final sand on it like the pine stock does. I
can take my belt sander and have it down in about 2 minutes on
a 2x4 all four sides. (60 grit) This is perfect for gluing
and on the sides facing inside the cabin, I hit it with my
orbital sander with 100 grit for another minute or two.
It is more work but a lot cheaper. Out hear pine 2x4's are
going for $2.50, cedar 2x4 is $4.50, and DF if it's any goot is
about $6.50 each. Funny thing is that a 2x2 cedar is $3.79 and
come finish sanded for deck rails. That's why I'm ripping 2x4s.
BTW, all the 4x4s in the Wyo are cedar also.
Jeff
In what form (i.e. size, rough? milled?) at what price do the fence
places carry it? Is this red or white cedar? Thanks.
places carry it? Is this red or white cedar? Thanks.
--- In bolger@y..., sctree@d... wrote:
> Jeff,
> What is this cedar you are buying?
> I mean, do you know what species tree it is from?
> Thanks,
> Rick
> boatbuilding@g... wrote:
> > On my Wyoming, Mr. Bolger called for DF for the nailers but
> > when I asked about Cedar, he said that was just fine since it
> > held glue well and was strong enough. It's somewhat rot
> > resistant but not like it used to be with the old growth.
> >
> > I have found that cedar is easy to find and if your willing to
> > do a bit of sanding, it can be found at fencing supply stores
> > reasonable. It sands easy by the way. Smells great too!
> >
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
Jeff,
What is this cedar you are buying?
I mean, do you know what species tree it is from?
Thanks,
Rick
boatbuilding@...wrote:
What is this cedar you are buying?
I mean, do you know what species tree it is from?
Thanks,
Rick
boatbuilding@...wrote:
>
>
> On my Wyoming, Mr. Bolger called for DF for the nailers but
> when I asked about Cedar, he said that was just fine since it
> held glue well and was strong enough. It's somewhat rot
> resistant but not like it used to be with the old growth.
>
> I have found that cedar is easy to find and if your willing to
> do a bit of sanding, it can be found at fencing supply stores
> reasonable. It sands easy by the way. Smells great too!
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Seems like there'd be no need for Doug Fir in Sneakeasy inOn my Wyoming, Mr. Bolger called for DF for the nailers but
> the first place.
when I asked about Cedar, he said that was just fine since it
held glue well and was strong enough. It's somewhat rot
resistant but not like it used to be with the old growth.
I have found that cedar is easy to find and if your willing to
do a bit of sanding, it can be found at fencing supply stores
reasonable. It sands easy by the way. Smells great too!
Maybe the Sneakeasy is the same as the Wyo. The frame material
is just to hold a shape and supply a good glue joint for the
plywood panels.
Jeff
The skeg of my Gull is oak, presumably red. It's glued with thickened
epoxy to the glass/epoxy surface fo the bottom, and then has fillets
(from what oozed out) running down both sides. Seems to be holding
fine, and there's plenty of flex in that 1/4 luan bottom.
I suspect the rest of the boat is going to give out before that
particular glue joint.
YIBB,
David
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
epoxy to the glass/epoxy surface fo the bottom, and then has fillets
(from what oozed out) running down both sides. Seems to be holding
fine, and there's plenty of flex in that 1/4 luan bottom.
I suspect the rest of the boat is going to give out before that
particular glue joint.
YIBB,
David
>> You say oak is hard to glue does that include epoxy?--
>
>I really don't presume to advise on that question. Oak is
>not "unglueable." I believe the keel (not the ballast) of the 12
>Meter American Eagle was an oak lamination. I do remember reading,
>before the epoxy era, that failures were more common in oak
>laminations than in whatever the more common wood was, probablly
>maghogany. Teak, being oily, is another wood with the reputation of
>not gluing well.
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
>- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
>MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
> You say oak is hard to glue does that include epoxy?I really don't presume to advise on that question. Oak is
not "unglueable." I believe the keel (not the ballast) of the 12
Meter American Eagle was an oak lamination. I do remember reading,
before the epoxy era, that failures were more common in oak
laminations than in whatever the more common wood was, probablly
maghogany. Teak, being oily, is another wood with the reputation of
not gluing well.
Seems like there'd be no need for Doug Fir in Sneakeasy in the first
place. Can't you just use ordinary wood and save the oak for places
that will wear like skids and outside of gunwhales? BTW, ash is
supposed to be very hard also and to glue well. I hope this is true as
I've just glued some on the outside stringers of the boat I'm
finishing. It certainly seems heavy.
place. Can't you just use ordinary wood and save the oak for places
that will wear like skids and outside of gunwhales? BTW, ash is
supposed to be very hard also and to glue well. I hope this is true as
I've just glued some on the outside stringers of the boat I'm
finishing. It certainly seems heavy.
--- In bolger@y..., Chance Curtis <sneakeasy2002@y...> wrote:
>
> Thought so . I am talking Sneakeasy here. You say oak is hard to
glue does that include epoxy?
> CCG
> pvanderwaart
> wrote:> Aside from the weight problem can you use oak in place of
> douglasfir?
>
> Depends. Oak is tough, pliable, and hard to glue. Douglas fir is
> soft, more brittle, and glues well. You could use DF for a mast, but
> you wouldn't use Oak. You could use oak for a steam-bent frame, but
> not DF. You might use either for a keel on some designs, but not
all.
>
> In the Manatee plans, quoted in a previous post, PCB puts them in
> different categories.
>
> Peter
>
>
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>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip>
away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes only white oak should be used-- never red oak! Easy was to tell difference. Cut small pieces of both, put one end in glass of water and suck on the other end. With red oak you can actually suck up water like a soda straw, not boat material. I hear alot of talk about home depot and lumber yards. I hope you guys are not missing out on all the old barns being torn down, -old growth lumber. And all the farmers who cut thei own wood lots. Most wood is dried with solar klins or dehumidifing units. In Indiana we are paying no more than $3 per bd ft for walnut, cherry, maple and oak, with the lighter woods going for more because of the demand for mission style furniture. I never pay more than $2 for rough sawn lumber of any kind. I buy thin cuts from a guy in ILL who sells teak, roeswood etc.
CCG
Ken wrote:Are you refering to white oak? I have a book from glen-l that says only
white oak should be used, but I haven't seen it in Home Depot.
Ken
CCG
Ken wrote:Are you refering to white oak? I have a book from glen-l that says only
white oak should be used, but I haven't seen it in Home Depot.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:47 PM
Subject: [bolger] Fir/Douglasfir was Re: Bolger on wood.
> > Aside from the weight problem can you use oak in place of
> douglasfir?
>
> Depends. Oak is tough, pliable, and hard to glue. Douglas fir is
> soft, more brittle, and glues well. You could use DF for a mast, but
> you wouldn't use Oak. You could use oak for a steam-bent frame, but
> not DF. You might use either for a keel on some designs, but not all.
>
> In the Manatee plans, quoted in a previous post, PCB puts them in
> different categories.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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Thought so . I am talking Sneakeasy here. You say oak is hard to glue does that include epoxy?
CCG
pvanderwaart
wrote:> Aside from the weight problem can you use oak in place of
douglasfir?
Depends. Oak is tough, pliable, and hard to glue. Douglas fir is
soft, more brittle, and glues well. You could use DF for a mast, but
you wouldn't use Oak. You could use oak for a steam-bent frame, but
not DF. You might use either for a keel on some designs, but not all.
In the Manatee plans, quoted in a previous post, PCB puts them in
different categories.
Peter
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CCG
pvanderwaart
wrote:> Aside from the weight problem can you use oak in place of
douglasfir?
Depends. Oak is tough, pliable, and hard to glue. Douglas fir is
soft, more brittle, and glues well. You could use DF for a mast, but
you wouldn't use Oak. You could use oak for a steam-bent frame, but
not DF. You might use either for a keel on some designs, but not all.
In the Manatee plans, quoted in a previous post, PCB puts them in
different categories.
Peter
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> Are you refering to white oak?White oak is the premium boat-building wood, but plenty of boats have
red oak in them. I think WO has better structural properties by a
narrow margin, but the big difference is in the structure of the
fibers. In short, red oak is more like a bunch of tubes and conveys
water from one end to the other more easily, and therefore rots more
easily. White oak has walls in the tubes and limits the passage of
water. Not all red oak is the same. There are a bunch of varieties,
and some may be almost as rot resistant as white oak, but you are not
going to be able to tell by glancing at the pile at the lumberyard.
The old expression was that red oak would last "six years or sixty."
You would hope that with WEST, etc, that the red oak could be kept
dry and it would be as good in a lamination as the white, but oak
doesn't glue that well.
If you want white oak, you will probably have to go to a specialty
supplier. Gresham's Law will keep it out of Home Depot.
Peter
(Gresham's Law: The bad money drives out the good. If there are two
kinds of money in circulation, the weaker currency will circulate and
the stronger will be hoarded. As applied to scarce resources like
white oak, Chilean sea bass, and choice beef, these commodities will
be reserved for special customers and not sold on the open market.)
The stuff that Hone Depot carries is red oak. Not nearly as rot resistant as
white oak. I have used on occasion in places where it is protected and
coated with epoxy and paint. Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
white oak. I have used on occasion in places where it is protected and
coated with epoxy and paint. Paul W. Esterle
Capt'n Pauley Video Productions
423.989.3159
S/V Bryn Awel, Columbia 10.7
Bristol, Tenn. USA
http://www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
http://pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
Are you refering to white oak? I have a book from glen-l that says only
white oak should be used, but I haven't seen it in Home Depot.
Ken
white oak should be used, but I haven't seen it in Home Depot.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:47 PM
Subject: [bolger] Fir/Douglasfir was Re: Bolger on wood.
> > Aside from the weight problem can you use oak in place of
> douglasfir?
>
> Depends. Oak is tough, pliable, and hard to glue. Douglas fir is
> soft, more brittle, and glues well. You could use DF for a mast, but
> you wouldn't use Oak. You could use oak for a steam-bent frame, but
> not DF. You might use either for a keel on some designs, but not all.
>
> In the Manatee plans, quoted in a previous post, PCB puts them in
> different categories.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Aside from the weight problem can you use oak in place ofdouglasfir?
Depends. Oak is tough, pliable, and hard to glue. Douglas fir is
soft, more brittle, and glues well. You could use DF for a mast, but
you wouldn't use Oak. You could use oak for a steam-bent frame, but
not DF. You might use either for a keel on some designs, but not all.
In the Manatee plans, quoted in a previous post, PCB puts them in
different categories.
Peter
Aside from the weight problem can you use oak in place of douglasfir?
CCG
rdchamberland wrote:I think that in California as well as timbuctoo, fir is fir and
douglasfir is douglasfir.
When you go to your local Home Depot the HPF 2x4s are mixed hemlock,
pine, and fir. The fir is not douglasfir but western fir. When Bolger
and Dynamite Payson are talking about fir that is "lightweight and
cheap" wood they are talking about white fir. What is desirable is old
growth west coast douglasfir. New growth and rocky mountain douglasfir
are not near as good. Of course finding old growth douglasfir (and
paying for it) are tougher situations. If you were specifying wood for
a boat to be constructed don't just say "fir" It's hard to say what
you'll get but it probably won't be douglasfir. Someone has posted the
US Forest Service Wood Handbook on these sites. Go look.
Bob Chamberland
CCG
rdchamberland wrote:I think that in California as well as timbuctoo, fir is fir and
douglasfir is douglasfir.
When you go to your local Home Depot the HPF 2x4s are mixed hemlock,
pine, and fir. The fir is not douglasfir but western fir. When Bolger
and Dynamite Payson are talking about fir that is "lightweight and
cheap" wood they are talking about white fir. What is desirable is old
growth west coast douglasfir. New growth and rocky mountain douglasfir
are not near as good. Of course finding old growth douglasfir (and
paying for it) are tougher situations. If you were specifying wood for
a boat to be constructed don't just say "fir" It's hard to say what
you'll get but it probably won't be douglasfir. Someone has posted the
US Forest Service Wood Handbook on these sites. Go look.
Bob Chamberland
--- In bolger@y..., "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> > This leaves me wondering...
> > here in California, "Fir"
> > means "Douglas Fir" which
> > is a durable, strong and
> > somewhat hard wood. PCB
> > describes 'fir' as light-
> > weight and cheap. Could
> > the Eastcoast 'fir' be a
> > different wood than the
> > Westcoast 'fir'?
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I think that in California as well as timbuctoo, fir is fir and
douglasfir is douglasfir.
When you go to your local Home Depot the HPF 2x4s are mixed hemlock,
pine, and fir. The fir is not douglasfir but western fir. When Bolger
and Dynamite Payson are talking about fir that is "lightweight and
cheap" wood they are talking about white fir. What is desirable is old
growth west coast douglasfir. New growth and rocky mountain douglasfir
are not near as good. Of course finding old growth douglasfir (and
paying for it) are tougher situations. If you were specifying wood for
a boat to be constructed don't just say "fir" It's hard to say what
you'll get but it probably won't be douglasfir. Someone has posted the
US Forest Service Wood Handbook on these sites. Go look.
Bob Chamberland
douglasfir is douglasfir.
When you go to your local Home Depot the HPF 2x4s are mixed hemlock,
pine, and fir. The fir is not douglasfir but western fir. When Bolger
and Dynamite Payson are talking about fir that is "lightweight and
cheap" wood they are talking about white fir. What is desirable is old
growth west coast douglasfir. New growth and rocky mountain douglasfir
are not near as good. Of course finding old growth douglasfir (and
paying for it) are tougher situations. If you were specifying wood for
a boat to be constructed don't just say "fir" It's hard to say what
you'll get but it probably won't be douglasfir. Someone has posted the
US Forest Service Wood Handbook on these sites. Go look.
Bob Chamberland
--- In bolger@y..., "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> > This leaves me wondering...
> > here in California, "Fir"
> > means "Douglas Fir" which
> > is a durable, strong and
> > somewhat hard wood. PCB
> > describes 'fir' as light-
> > weight and cheap. Could
> > the Eastcoast 'fir' be a
> > different wood than the
> > Westcoast 'fir'?
Thanks for the information Bruce.
I found it to be very useful.
I'm pretty certain that when both PCB and Dynamite Payson refer to
fir that their first choice is Douglas. Clear, well seasoned Douglas
Fir is even recommended as a good mast material.
I believe their philosophy is that you get the best available - for
what you can afford - at your local lumberyard. In other words, good
housebuilding materials will work fine on a plywood and glassed boat.
Unfortunately, here in Canada we don't see a lot of the good stuff as
it gets sent directly offshore and we get the dregs.
Of course, no good wood is "cheap" anymore:-)
Nels
I found it to be very useful.
I'm pretty certain that when both PCB and Dynamite Payson refer to
fir that their first choice is Douglas. Clear, well seasoned Douglas
Fir is even recommended as a good mast material.
I believe their philosophy is that you get the best available - for
what you can afford - at your local lumberyard. In other words, good
housebuilding materials will work fine on a plywood and glassed boat.
Unfortunately, here in Canada we don't see a lot of the good stuff as
it gets sent directly offshore and we get the dregs.
Of course, no good wood is "cheap" anymore:-)
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> For the longest time I have
> been unclear about PCB's
> opinion about choosing types
> of wood. Often he is silent
> in his designs, and sometimes
> he specifies certain species.
>
> I got the distinct impression
> that the exact choice wasn't
> that important to him, leaving
> as much liberty to the builder
> as possible.
>
> I just stumbled across PCB's
> explanation of his thoughts
> about wood, in his write-up
> for Manatee. [In my newly
> aquired copy of Different
> Boats, which I am currently
> devouring.]
>
> This leaves me wondering...
> here in California, "Fir"
> means "Douglas Fir" which
> is a durable, strong and
> somewhat hard wood. PCB
> describes 'fir' as light-
> weight and cheap. Could
> the Eastcoast 'fir' be a
> different wood than the
> Westcoast 'fir'?
>
> Quoting PCB:
>
> "To spare repetition, when
> "mahogany" is written, the
> significance is that the wood
> should be hard and strong
> but have good glue-holding
> properties; where "oak" is
> written, hardness and strength
> are more imortant than gluing
> characteristics; "fir" means
> that light weight, cheap
> availability, or easy shaping
> takes precedence over hardness
> and strength; and "cedar" means
> that hardness and close grain
> are undesirable.
>
> In my opinion, a good piece of
> stock of an inferior species is
> better to have in the boat than
> a bad timber of a good name, and
> I also think that given the
> apparent uses of Gougeon epoxy
> kits, almost any kind of wood
> that is not too oily or gritty
> can be used successfully with
> slight and obvious variations
> in the sizes of timber."
For the longest time I have
been unclear about PCB's
opinion about choosing types
of wood. Often he is silent
in his designs, and sometimes
he specifies certain species.
I got the distinct impression
that the exact choice wasn't
that important to him, leaving
as much liberty to the builder
as possible.
I just stumbled across PCB's
explanation of his thoughts
about wood, in his write-up
for Manatee. [In my newly
aquired copy of Different
Boats, which I am currently
devouring.]
This leaves me wondering...
here in California, "Fir"
means "Douglas Fir" which
is a durable, strong and
somewhat hard wood. PCB
describes 'fir' as light-
weight and cheap. Could
the Eastcoast 'fir' be a
different wood than the
Westcoast 'fir'?
Quoting PCB:
"To spare repetition, when
"mahogany" is written, the
significance is that the wood
should be hard and strong
but have good glue-holding
properties; where "oak" is
written, hardness and strength
are more imortant than gluing
characteristics; "fir" means
that light weight, cheap
availability, or easy shaping
takes precedence over hardness
and strength; and "cedar" means
that hardness and close grain
are undesirable.
In my opinion, a good piece of
stock of an inferior species is
better to have in the boat than
a bad timber of a good name, and
I also think that given the
apparent uses of Gougeon epoxy
kits, almost any kind of wood
that is not too oily or gritty
can be used successfully with
slight and obvious variations
in the sizes of timber."
been unclear about PCB's
opinion about choosing types
of wood. Often he is silent
in his designs, and sometimes
he specifies certain species.
I got the distinct impression
that the exact choice wasn't
that important to him, leaving
as much liberty to the builder
as possible.
I just stumbled across PCB's
explanation of his thoughts
about wood, in his write-up
for Manatee. [In my newly
aquired copy of Different
Boats, which I am currently
devouring.]
This leaves me wondering...
here in California, "Fir"
means "Douglas Fir" which
is a durable, strong and
somewhat hard wood. PCB
describes 'fir' as light-
weight and cheap. Could
the Eastcoast 'fir' be a
different wood than the
Westcoast 'fir'?
Quoting PCB:
"To spare repetition, when
"mahogany" is written, the
significance is that the wood
should be hard and strong
but have good glue-holding
properties; where "oak" is
written, hardness and strength
are more imortant than gluing
characteristics; "fir" means
that light weight, cheap
availability, or easy shaping
takes precedence over hardness
and strength; and "cedar" means
that hardness and close grain
are undesirable.
In my opinion, a good piece of
stock of an inferior species is
better to have in the boat than
a bad timber of a good name, and
I also think that given the
apparent uses of Gougeon epoxy
kits, almost any kind of wood
that is not too oily or gritty
can be used successfully with
slight and obvious variations
in the sizes of timber."