Re: Wood
Try www.fpl.fs.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm and don't
put an "e" in documents.
Bob Chamberland
put an "e" in documents.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <topsail@s...> wrote:
> I am wondering about the suitability of using alder or hemlock for
> boatbuilding. Had thought of using some inside the boat for
structural use
> and for some joiner work.
> Phil
According to the Forest Service Wood Handbook both materials are
moderate strength, stiffness etc. Red Alder is susceptible to shock
which I suppose is from something striking it. Neither is resistant to
rot. I have read the Hemlock is very susceptible to decay organisms.
The Handbook is on the web and you should consult that excellent
publication.
Bob Chamberland
moderate strength, stiffness etc. Red Alder is susceptible to shock
which I suppose is from something striking it. Neither is resistant to
rot. I have read the Hemlock is very susceptible to decay organisms.
The Handbook is on the web and you should consult that excellent
publication.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Phil" <topsail@s...> wrote:
> I am wondering about the suitability of using alder or hemlock for
> boatbuilding. Had thought of using some inside the boat for
structural use
> and for some joiner work.
> Phil
I am wondering about the suitability of using alder or hemlock for
boatbuilding. Had thought of using some inside the boat for structural use
and for some joiner work.
Phil
boatbuilding. Had thought of using some inside the boat for structural use
and for some joiner work.
Phil
I purchased several pieces from a deck builder to experiment with. I was
hoping to use it in place of more expensive teak. It is very hard, oily,
won't float and won't burn. It turned out to be too dark for what I wanted
to use it for. I ended up cutting up and using it for cleats in a cabinets
project for the quarter berth. Use carbide tools. I found out the hard way
that cut edges can be razor sharp. Depending on the grain, it can be
brittle. I had a couple cleats fracture when I drilled them for screws.
Several people have used Ipe for toe rails.
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
hoping to use it in place of more expensive teak. It is very hard, oily,
won't float and won't burn. It turned out to be too dark for what I wanted
to use it for. I ended up cutting up and using it for cleats in a cabinets
project for the quarter berth. Use carbide tools. I found out the hard way
that cut edges can be razor sharp. Depending on the grain, it can be
brittle. I had a couple cleats fracture when I drilled them for screws.
Several people have used Ipe for toe rails.
Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Member, Boating Writers International
pages.preferred.com/~pesterle/
www.smallcraftadvisor.com
www.captnpauley.bigstep.com
>It has a specific gravity of 1.08 i.e. it won't float, but makes greatSounds way too heavy for a Bolger boat, but it might make a good skeg
>bows (as in bow and arrow).
>
>
>
>john
or rub-piece on the bottom.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
It has a specific gravity of 1.08 i.e. it won't float, but makes great
bows (as in bow and arrow).
john
-----Original Message-----
From: trund1024 [mailto:trund1024@...]
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 5:28 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Wood
Hello Group,
Has anyone ever used or tested Ipe in boat building? I have some
pieces laying around but they seem a bit heavy and stiff for boat
building. Is it rot resistant?
Tom
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bows (as in bow and arrow).
john
-----Original Message-----
From: trund1024 [mailto:trund1024@...]
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 5:28 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Wood
Hello Group,
Has anyone ever used or tested Ipe in boat building? I have some
pieces laying around but they seem a bit heavy and stiff for boat
building. Is it rot resistant?
Tom
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
065791:HM/A=1564416/R=0/SIG=11ti81skc/*http:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqs
o=60164797&partid=3170658>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=251812.3170658.4537139.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=:HM/A=1564416/rand=572631010>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello Group,
Has anyone ever used or tested Ipe in boat building? I have some
pieces laying around but they seem a bit heavy and stiff for boat
building. Is it rot resistant?
Tom
Has anyone ever used or tested Ipe in boat building? I have some
pieces laying around but they seem a bit heavy and stiff for boat
building. Is it rot resistant?
Tom
Yes, but if your 1/4" fir ply is like mine, you may need to use some
hefty glass, as with 3 equal layers the stuff is stiff and strong in
one direction and very floppy and weak in the other. It does do
admirably on the boil test. This is 1/4" ACX, or maybe AC, I forget.
It also has a lot of unfilled knots on one side and is much heavier.
If you were building something like St. Jan, I suppose you could run
the surface grain crossways and you'd be ok, at least for the floats.
Probably was a very good idea to add the ventilation. I wonder what
one is supposed to do with boats like Crystal to avoid rot. Original
was not glassed.
BTW, I recall seeing mention of luan thicker than 1/4"
hefty glass, as with 3 equal layers the stuff is stiff and strong in
one direction and very floppy and weak in the other. It does do
admirably on the boil test. This is 1/4" ACX, or maybe AC, I forget.
It also has a lot of unfilled knots on one side and is much heavier.
If you were building something like St. Jan, I suppose you could run
the surface grain crossways and you'd be ok, at least for the floats.
Probably was a very good idea to add the ventilation. I wonder what
one is supposed to do with boats like Crystal to avoid rot. Original
was not glassed.
BTW, I recall seeing mention of luan thicker than 1/4"
--- In bolger@y..., Jim Pope <jpope@a...> wrote:
snip
> bear my weight. Fir plywood, if protected against checking seems to
be much stronger and durable than
> luan so if I had it to do over again that is what I'd choose to
build her of.
> Jim
snip
Chance,
The problem isn't design. The problem on my boat is the poor construction. I would strongly recommend
that all surfaces inside and out of the boat made of luan should be at least epoxy coated and then that
the epoxy, of course, painted with something that would protect it from u/v damage.
Mine wasn't and during winter storage where the water could reach the wood the wood deteriorated and
weakened the plywood. If you can get there before rot sets in, and I think that I luckily did, a coat of
epoxy and glass restrengthens the wood and saves the day. I was careful to add ventilation to all closed
parts of the boat too and that also seems to have helped to stave off rot.
1/4"(6mm) or 1/8" is really very thin and even a little degradation of the plywood seems to make it a lot
more flexible. I'm overweight and every part of the boat where I am likely to stand has got to be able to
bear my weight. Fir plywood, if protected against checking seems to be much stronger and durable than
luan so if I had it to do over again that is what I'd choose to build her of.
Jim
Chance Curtis wrote:
The problem isn't design. The problem on my boat is the poor construction. I would strongly recommend
that all surfaces inside and out of the boat made of luan should be at least epoxy coated and then that
the epoxy, of course, painted with something that would protect it from u/v damage.
Mine wasn't and during winter storage where the water could reach the wood the wood deteriorated and
weakened the plywood. If you can get there before rot sets in, and I think that I luckily did, a coat of
epoxy and glass restrengthens the wood and saves the day. I was careful to add ventilation to all closed
parts of the boat too and that also seems to have helped to stave off rot.
1/4"(6mm) or 1/8" is really very thin and even a little degradation of the plywood seems to make it a lot
more flexible. I'm overweight and every part of the boat where I am likely to stand has got to be able to
bear my weight. Fir plywood, if protected against checking seems to be much stronger and durable than
luan so if I had it to do over again that is what I'd choose to build her of.
Jim
Chance Curtis wrote:
> Do you think the problem is materals or design?
> CCG
> Jim Pope wrote:David,
> My little catamaran, St. Jan, is made out of 1/4 luan. It is better than nothing. But it is also a
> challenge that keeps me hustling to stay one step ahead of the stuff's incipient total failure. Every
> horizontal surface on the boat, top and bottom, now has a coat of epoxy and fiberglass.
Do you think the problem is materals or design?
CCG
Jim Pope wrote:David,
My little catamaran, St. Jan, is made out of 1/4 luan. It is better than nothing. But it is also a
challenge that keeps me hustling to stay one step ahead of the stuff's incipient total failure. Every
horizontal surface on the boat, top and bottom, now has a coat of epoxy and fiberglass. Maybe next
year all I'll have to do is paint her and put her in. I hope so but it hasn't happened yet.
There is a relation between longevity and first cost. If you are realistic, the cutoff point for the
use of the cheapest should be for a planned life of two years or less,
with the clear understanding that if you want longer with the Luan you are probably going to do some
significant maintenance to keep it all working and the ocean out.
Fortunately, and I guess somewhat perversely, I kind of enjoy working on the boat.
Some one asked me the other day if the boat was worth all the work, but that's another whole story.
Jim
David Ryan wrote:
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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CCG
Jim Pope wrote:David,
My little catamaran, St. Jan, is made out of 1/4 luan. It is better than nothing. But it is also a
challenge that keeps me hustling to stay one step ahead of the stuff's incipient total failure. Every
horizontal surface on the boat, top and bottom, now has a coat of epoxy and fiberglass. Maybe next
year all I'll have to do is paint her and put her in. I hope so but it hasn't happened yet.
There is a relation between longevity and first cost. If you are realistic, the cutoff point for the
use of the cheapest should be for a planned life of two years or less,
with the clear understanding that if you want longer with the Luan you are probably going to do some
significant maintenance to keep it all working and the ocean out.
Fortunately, and I guess somewhat perversely, I kind of enjoy working on the boat.
Some one asked me the other day if the boat was worth all the work, but that's another whole story.
Jim
David Ryan wrote:
> FBBB --Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> I think someone said it best when they said, "Get the best wood you
> can afford."
>
> When you compare the consequences of using the wrong wood (boat sinks
> too soon) to the consequences of using no wood at all (no boat at
> all), I think it's pretty clear that even luan is far, far better
> than nothing.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> --
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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> PCB wrote:In a conversation with SA, she mentioned that if the price between the best
> "...almost any kind of wood
> that is not too oily or gritty
> can be used successfully with
> slight and obvious variations
> in the sizes of timber."
and what you can afford keeps you from building, buy what you can afford and
accept the maintenance issues. Over ten years of time, you'll probably
spend the same amount but it's easier to piece meal some each year the all
up front.
The "variations" in sizes means to adjust the strength for the designed
safety needs. One can probably assume that means stringers, nailers, chine
logs, and even plywood if necessary.
This I think is the most important thing. After safety, just enjoying a
boat you've built IS the most important aspect of materials you use.
With epoxy, almost anything is possible!
Jeff
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
read that PCB believes is that
you don't need to buy the best,
even if you can afford to,
unless you really need the best.
'Need' is subjective, of course.
I 'need' different safety factors,
durability, teak trim..., than you;
and that's OK.
PCB wrote:
"...almost any kind of wood
that is not too oily or gritty
can be used successfully with
slight and obvious variations
in the sizes of timber."
I take 'obvious' to presume that
you use common sense, upsizing
the member if the wood is weak.
But 'almost any kind of wood'
means that PCB gives his O.K.
for shopping for local bargains.
> I think someone said it best when they said,I respect your opinion, but I
> "Get the best wood you can afford."
>
> ...the consequences of using
> the wrong wood (boat sinks ...
read that PCB believes is that
you don't need to buy the best,
even if you can afford to,
unless you really need the best.
'Need' is subjective, of course.
I 'need' different safety factors,
durability, teak trim..., than you;
and that's OK.
PCB wrote:
"...almost any kind of wood
that is not too oily or gritty
can be used successfully with
slight and obvious variations
in the sizes of timber."
I take 'obvious' to presume that
you use common sense, upsizing
the member if the wood is weak.
But 'almost any kind of wood'
means that PCB gives his O.K.
for shopping for local bargains.
I would edit slightly to:
"get the most renewable wood you can afford"
My $0.02 towards preserving the tropical woodlands....
Mike
"get the most renewable wood you can afford"
My $0.02 towards preserving the tropical woodlands....
Mike
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I think someone said it best when they said, "Get the best wood you
> can afford."
>
> When you compare the consequences of using the wrong wood (boat
sinks
> too soon) to the consequences of using no wood at all (no boat at
> all), I think it's pretty clear that even luan is far, far better
> than nothing.
Ah, but there's luan and luan. We just need a way to distinguish which
is which! No glass and epoxy needed on our Brick. We had a 14 year old
boat made from luan until I inadvertently allowed a little snow in it.
How did you avoid sanding through the terribly thin outer layer when
retrofitting the glass?
is which! No glass and epoxy needed on our Brick. We had a 14 year old
boat made from luan until I inadvertently allowed a little snow in it.
How did you avoid sanding through the terribly thin outer layer when
retrofitting the glass?
--- In bolger@y..., Jim Pope <jpope@a...> wrote:
> David,
> My little catamaran, St. Jan, is made out of 1/4 luan. It is better
than nothing. But it is also a
> challenge that keeps me hustling to stay one step ahead of the
stuff's incipient total failure. snip
>
> There is a relation between longevity and first cost. If you are
realistic, the cutoff point for the
> use of the cheapest should be for a planned life of two years or
less,
> with the clear understanding that if you want longer with the Luan
you are probably going to do some
> significant maintenance to keep it all working and the ocean out.
>
snip
David,
My little catamaran, St. Jan, is made out of 1/4 luan. It is better than nothing. But it is also a
challenge that keeps me hustling to stay one step ahead of the stuff's incipient total failure. Every
horizontal surface on the boat, top and bottom, now has a coat of epoxy and fiberglass. Maybe next
year all I'll have to do is paint her and put her in. I hope so but it hasn't happened yet.
There is a relation between longevity and first cost. If you are realistic, the cutoff point for the
use of the cheapest should be for a planned life of two years or less,
with the clear understanding that if you want longer with the Luan you are probably going to do some
significant maintenance to keep it all working and the ocean out.
Fortunately, and I guess somewhat perversely, I kind of enjoy working on the boat.
Some one asked me the other day if the boat was worth all the work, but that's another whole story.
Jim
David Ryan wrote:
My little catamaran, St. Jan, is made out of 1/4 luan. It is better than nothing. But it is also a
challenge that keeps me hustling to stay one step ahead of the stuff's incipient total failure. Every
horizontal surface on the boat, top and bottom, now has a coat of epoxy and fiberglass. Maybe next
year all I'll have to do is paint her and put her in. I hope so but it hasn't happened yet.
There is a relation between longevity and first cost. If you are realistic, the cutoff point for the
use of the cheapest should be for a planned life of two years or less,
with the clear understanding that if you want longer with the Luan you are probably going to do some
significant maintenance to keep it all working and the ocean out.
Fortunately, and I guess somewhat perversely, I kind of enjoy working on the boat.
Some one asked me the other day if the boat was worth all the work, but that's another whole story.
Jim
David Ryan wrote:
> FBBB --
>
> I think someone said it best when they said, "Get the best wood you
> can afford."
>
> When you compare the consequences of using the wrong wood (boat sinks
> too soon) to the consequences of using no wood at all (no boat at
> all), I think it's pretty clear that even luan is far, far better
> than nothing.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> --
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
FBBB --
I think someone said it best when they said, "Get the best wood you
can afford."
When you compare the consequences of using the wrong wood (boat sinks
too soon) to the consequences of using no wood at all (no boat at
all), I think it's pretty clear that even luan is far, far better
than nothing.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
I think someone said it best when they said, "Get the best wood you
can afford."
When you compare the consequences of using the wrong wood (boat sinks
too soon) to the consequences of using no wood at all (no boat at
all), I think it's pretty clear that even luan is far, far better
than nothing.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296