Re: Teal's big sister, #322
That hull shape and size is very much the same as Birdwatcher's which
has an off-centred swing-keel and a much more complicated rudder
system.
In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
has an off-centred swing-keel and a much more complicated rudder
system.
In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "Todd" <ktsrfer@m...> wrote:
> > the dagger board and case.
>
> Now that I look at it
> more, I think that a
> daggerboard case could
> fit between the ice chest
> and the porta-potty.
>
--- In bolger@y..., "Todd" <ktsrfer@m...> wrote:
more, I think that a
daggerboard case could
fit between the ice chest
and the porta-potty.
I would build it once first
per the plans, [and get the
plans from PB&F to learn of
any new ideas and corrections
he may have had.]
have to race to find out :)
The AS-19 has the advantage
that it has a shoal draft,
and carries 500 lbs of lead.
Did you notice that PCB calls
for the use of Teal #310 as a
tow-behind skiff for #322. The
#322 mizzen sail is called to
be used as the sail for the Teal.
> the dagger board and case.Now that I look at it
more, I think that a
daggerboard case could
fit between the ice chest
and the porta-potty.
I would build it once first
per the plans, [and get the
plans from PB&F to learn of
any new ideas and corrections
he may have had.]
> I bet this boat would be#322 *is* longer, but we would
> a bit faster than the as19.:)
have to race to find out :)
The AS-19 has the advantage
that it has a shoal draft,
and carries 500 lbs of lead.
Did you notice that PCB calls
for the use of Teal #310 as a
tow-behind skiff for #322. The
#322 mizzen sail is called to
be used as the sail for the Teal.
I like this idea.
placed internal outboard ballast?
I do imagine this change would impact the intended uses of this
vessel; negating the ocean-crossing claim.
Ahhhhhh.....ruining the rowing thwart! Hmmmmm?!
> > Also instead of the twin keelsWhy not a narrower, longer 125 lbs dagger and some thoughtfully
> > how about a single weighted
> > dagger board?
>
> As always, changing a Bolger
> design is not necessarily
> wise because of unforseen
> consequences.
>
> I would rather manhandle
> two 125 pound leeboards
> than one 250 pound dagger-
> board.
>
placed internal outboard ballast?
I do imagine this change would impact the intended uses of this
vessel; negating the ocean-crossing claim.
> Also, I wonder where theOn the same beam axis as the leeboards. No?
> daggerboard case would
> go, both in the boat, and
Ahhhhhh.....ruining the rowing thwart! Hmmmmm?!
> on the cutting diagram
> for 11 sheets of 3/8"
> plywood!
Aw I see , The thing that most intrests me is the straight cuts for
the hull sides and the out line of the hull "the tear drop shape".
With a tall lego mutten main ,a longer weighted dagger board or
center board with ballast inside, lower the dog house and raise the
foward cabin top.
Would be my idea of the most boat for your bang. I would sacrafice
the extra 1 and a half sheets that might be needed for the dagger
board and case. still keeps it under the 26 sheet estimate for the
as19. I bet this boat would be a bit faster than the as19.:) And
weigh less than my micro.
Todd
the hull sides and the out line of the hull "the tear drop shape".
With a tall lego mutten main ,a longer weighted dagger board or
center board with ballast inside, lower the dog house and raise the
foward cabin top.
Would be my idea of the most boat for your bang. I would sacrafice
the extra 1 and a half sheets that might be needed for the dagger
board and case. still keeps it under the 26 sheet estimate for the
as19. I bet this boat would be a bit faster than the as19.:) And
weigh less than my micro.
Todd
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> --- "Todd" <ktsrfer@m...> wrote:
> > I want to build #322 whats
> > the sail plan look like?
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/322/three.gif
>
> > Also instead of the twin keels
> > how about a single weighted
> > dagger board?
>
> As always, changing a Bolger
> design is not necessarily
> wise because of unforseen
> consequences.
>
> I would rather manhandle
> two 125 pound leeboards
> than one 250 pound dagger-
> board.
>
> Also, I wonder where the
> daggerboard case would
> go, both in the boat, and
> on the cutting diagram
> for 11 sheets of 3/8"
> plywood!
>
> That is what I find most
> amazing about this boat,
> it only uses 11 sheets
> for a 24' x 6' boat!
>
> My estimated count of
> plywood sheets in the
> AS-19 was twenty-six.
--- "Todd" <ktsrfer@m...> wrote:
design is not necessarily
wise because of unforseen
consequences.
I would rather manhandle
two 125 pound leeboards
than one 250 pound dagger-
board.
Also, I wonder where the
daggerboard case would
go, both in the boat, and
on the cutting diagram
for 11 sheets of 3/8"
plywood!
That is what I find most
amazing about this boat,
it only uses 11 sheets
for a 24' x 6' boat!
My estimated count of
plywood sheets in the
AS-19 was twenty-six.
> I want to build #322 whatshttp://www.hallman.org/bolger/322/three.gif
> the sail plan look like?
> Also instead of the twin keelsAs always, changing a Bolger
> how about a single weighted
> dagger board?
design is not necessarily
wise because of unforseen
consequences.
I would rather manhandle
two 125 pound leeboards
than one 250 pound dagger-
board.
Also, I wonder where the
daggerboard case would
go, both in the boat, and
on the cutting diagram
for 11 sheets of 3/8"
plywood!
That is what I find most
amazing about this boat,
it only uses 11 sheets
for a 24' x 6' boat!
My estimated count of
plywood sheets in the
AS-19 was twenty-six.
Aw Man Right after I finish my 33' new heaven sharpie, and build my
20' proa, refinish my micro. I want to build #322 whats the sail plan
look like? Also instead of the twin keels how about a single weighted
dagger board?
Todd
20' proa, refinish my micro. I want to build #322 whats the sail plan
look like? Also instead of the twin keels how about a single weighted
dagger board?
Todd
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> I am probably typical of others
> around here, being familiar with
> a few of PCB's more well known
> designs, and ignorant of the
> vast majority of the others.
>
> Especially well known are the
> plans sold by Dynamite Payson,
> Teal being perhaps the most
> famous of all.
>
> Teal, like Windsprint and
> Birdwatcher, and several
> others have the elegantly
> efficient idea, that the shape
> comes from sides ripped straight
> from a whole sheet of 4x8 plywood
> and then curved by raking the
> stem and stern posts.
>
> While reading _Different Boats_,
> I just learned of another boat
> in this "Teal" type, Design #322,
> Centennial II.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/322/322.gif
>
> 24 feet x 5'11" shaped like a
> scaled up Teal. Described by
> PCB as:
>
> "quick-and-dirty seagoing boat"...
> "I defy anyone to get more
> all-weather boat than this
> out of 11 sheets of plywood".
>
> Jeez, only eleven sheets!
> Once again, I WANT ONE!
>
> Anybody know if many of these
> were built?
> Actually, unless the leeboard is pretty thick or the boat is notlow.
> allowed to heel much, it may provide better righting moment down
The leeboards (twin keels?) of Centennial don't pivot.
PHV
Actually, unless the leeboard is pretty thick or the boat is not
allowed to heel much, it may provide better righting moment down low.
As the boat heels it may get further to windward than it would when
raised.
allowed to heel much, it may provide better righting moment down low.
As the boat heels it may get further to windward than it would when
raised.
--- In bolger@y..., "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> > > Those 110 lbs leeboards look like they might be a handful.
> > > How does
> > > one stow the windward board? Or are they just left down?
> >
> > Yes, left down.
>
> An advantage of a heavy leedboard is that when it is raised it is
> like having an extra crew member hiking out over the upwind rail,
> helping to keep the boat on her feet. This crew member never
> complains nor consumes any of you precious rum rations. They can be
> raised and lowered quite easily by attaching a pendant using
creative
> methods shown in the Files section. Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
like having an extra crew member hiking out over the upwind rail,
helping to keep the boat on her feet. This crew member never
complains nor consumes any of you precious rum rations. They can be
raised and lowered quite easily by attaching a pendant using creative
methods shown in the Files section. Nels
> > Those 110 lbs leeboards look like they might be a handful.An advantage of a heavy leedboard is that when it is raised it is
> > How does
> > one stow the windward board? Or are they just left down?
>
> Yes, left down.
like having an extra crew member hiking out over the upwind rail,
helping to keep the boat on her feet. This crew member never
complains nor consumes any of you precious rum rations. They can be
raised and lowered quite easily by attaching a pendant using creative
methods shown in the Files section. Nels
--- "Ned Asplundh" wrote:
Centennial II, she is intended
as a thought experiment trying to
design the cheapest most seaworthy
boat to cross the Atlantic. PCB
estimates a 2% chance of dying
in an Atlantic Crossing in her. I
suspect that the cramped cabin
is deliberately small, like with
Storm Petrel, so you don't get
bonked around so much is a serious
storm. [Plus it is cheaper.]
Regarding the heavy leeboards, PCB
explains: "Without the ballasted
boards she's not self righting,
so removing them wasn't something
I wanted to encourage."
I think Centenial II #322 was designed
in the "Second Centenial Year" 1976.
> though, a comment about theFrom reading PCB's chapter on
> cramped accomodations.
Centennial II, she is intended
as a thought experiment trying to
design the cheapest most seaworthy
boat to cross the Atlantic. PCB
estimates a 2% chance of dying
in an Atlantic Crossing in her. I
suspect that the cramped cabin
is deliberately small, like with
Storm Petrel, so you don't get
bonked around so much is a serious
storm. [Plus it is cheaper.]
Regarding the heavy leeboards, PCB
explains: "Without the ballasted
boards she's not self righting,
so removing them wasn't something
I wanted to encourage."
> looks like a predecessor of Dovekie?Dovekey #292 is in the 1976 book, and
> Anybody know the chronology of
> the two designs.
I think Centenial II #322 was designed
in the "Second Centenial Year" 1976.
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
outside leeboard. He seems to have moved away from this option, but
earlier said nice things about it. It doesn't allow the same yachty
alusions to Dutch leeboarders etc, but if it work it is much
simpler. Wasn't one used on Dovekei? I supose people are counting
on me to launch Fa Eek to find out how it does work. And as soon as
I get the new motor mount on BassAckwards, and further along on my
canoe... Plus I may be working on a 32' proa, and I have to do
something about my 23' tri.
I wonder what's on TV?
> > Those 110 lbs leeboards look like they might be a handful.schooner)?
> > How does
> > one stow the windward board? Or are they just left down?
>
> Yes, left down.
>
> > I had been looking for a design in a 20' length with the
> > straight side panel ala Windsprint.
>
> What about the Single-handed schooner (formerly, His & Her
>What aboout just beefing up the ballast and going with a single
> Peter
outside leeboard. He seems to have moved away from this option, but
earlier said nice things about it. It doesn't allow the same yachty
alusions to Dutch leeboarders etc, but if it work it is much
simpler. Wasn't one used on Dovekei? I supose people are counting
on me to launch Fa Eek to find out how it does work. And as soon as
I get the new motor mount on BassAckwards, and further along on my
canoe... Plus I may be working on a 32' proa, and I have to do
something about my 23' tri.
I wonder what's on TV?
> Those 110 lbs leeboards look like they might be a handful.Yes, left down.
> How does
> one stow the windward board? Or are they just left down?
> I had been looking for a design in a 20' length with theWhat about the Single-handed schooner (formerly, His & Her schooner)?
> straight side panel ala Windsprint.
Peter
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
one stow the windward board? Or are they just left down?
I love it. I had been looking for a design in a 20' length with the
straight side panel ala Windsprint. I was half-heartedly attempting
to design this very boat with an Egret styling. Glad PCB has done it
for me.
> While reading _Different Boats_,Those 110 lbs leeboards look like they might be a handful. How does
> I just learned of another boat
> in this "Teal" type, Design #322,
> Centennial II.
>
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/322/322.gif
>
> 24 feet x 5'11" shaped like a
> scaled up Teal.
one stow the windward board? Or are they just left down?
I love it. I had been looking for a design in a 20' length with the
straight side panel ala Windsprint. I was half-heartedly attempting
to design this very boat with an Egret styling. Glad PCB has done it
for me.
Yeah, Bruce. But can't remember where I read about it. Do recall,
though, a comment about the cramped accomodations. Centennial II also
looks like a predecessor of Dovekie? Anybody know the chronology of
the two designs.
though, a comment about the cramped accomodations. Centennial II also
looks like a predecessor of Dovekie? Anybody know the chronology of
the two designs.
--- In bolger@y..., "brucehallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
<snip>
>
> Anybody know if many of these
> were built?
I am probably typical of others
around here, being familiar with
a few of PCB's more well known
designs, and ignorant of the
vast majority of the others.
Especially well known are the
plans sold by Dynamite Payson,
Teal being perhaps the most
famous of all.
Teal, like Windsprint and
Birdwatcher, and several
others have the elegantly
efficient idea, that the shape
comes from sides ripped straight
from a whole sheet of 4x8 plywood
and then curved by raking the
stem and stern posts.
While reading _Different Boats_,
I just learned of another boat
in this "Teal" type, Design #322,
Centennial II.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/322/322.gif
24 feet x 5'11" shaped like a
scaled up Teal. Described by
PCB as:
"quick-and-dirty seagoing boat"...
"I defy anyone to get more
all-weather boat than this
out of 11 sheets of plywood".
Jeez, only eleven sheets!
Once again, I WANT ONE!
Anybody know if many of these
were built?
around here, being familiar with
a few of PCB's more well known
designs, and ignorant of the
vast majority of the others.
Especially well known are the
plans sold by Dynamite Payson,
Teal being perhaps the most
famous of all.
Teal, like Windsprint and
Birdwatcher, and several
others have the elegantly
efficient idea, that the shape
comes from sides ripped straight
from a whole sheet of 4x8 plywood
and then curved by raking the
stem and stern posts.
While reading _Different Boats_,
I just learned of another boat
in this "Teal" type, Design #322,
Centennial II.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/322/322.gif
24 feet x 5'11" shaped like a
scaled up Teal. Described by
PCB as:
"quick-and-dirty seagoing boat"...
"I defy anyone to get more
all-weather boat than this
out of 11 sheets of plywood".
Jeez, only eleven sheets!
Once again, I WANT ONE!
Anybody know if many of these
were built?