Re: HMR Primer
Afraid that link doesn't seem to work. HMR can help with oily wood????
--- In bolger@y..., "mat_man22" <mat_man@u...> wrote:
>
>
> The best applications for HMR would be for glueing white oak for
ribs
> and frames.
>
> see:
>
>
http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.phpubb=get_topic;f=1;t=00140
> 8
>
> Also glueing teak and other oily tropical hardwoods.
>
> Large ply boats that could use Poly as cheaper than epoxy.
>
>
> Mat
The best applications for HMR would be for glueing white oak for ribs
and frames.
see:
http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.phpubb=get_topic;f=1;t=00140
8
Also glueing teak and other oily tropical hardwoods.
Large ply boats that could use Poly as cheaper than epoxy.
Mat
and frames.
see:
http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.phpubb=get_topic;f=1;t=00140
8
Also glueing teak and other oily tropical hardwoods.
Large ply boats that could use Poly as cheaper than epoxy.
Mat
If this stuff was easily available, I guess I would probably use it on
next project that uses good plywood. If it worked on polyester or
vinylester, I might be tempted to use that stuff instead, tho current
building area might be too close to neighbors for the smell. BTW, has
anyone fooled with vinylester? Maybe it's more water resistant?
next project that uses good plywood. If it worked on polyester or
vinylester, I might be tempted to use that stuff instead, tho current
building area might be too close to neighbors for the smell. BTW, has
anyone fooled with vinylester? Maybe it's more water resistant?
--- In bolger@y..., "Kreamer" <kreamer@a...> wrote:
> I would use it on all critical structures mast, partners,
centerboard
> trunk, transom, bulkheads, keel,...
>
> Bill Kreamer
>
> -----Original Message-----
snip As a soon to be unemployed engineer (Darn
> RIF), I have been looking at manufacturing HMR for
> commercial and industrial sale. snip Given my
> estimates of manufacturing and licensing costs, a
> quart should cost about $8-$10.
snip
> SO now the big question: Is there interest in the
> building community for this material?
> I have asked about the use of the primer on Polyester
> resins and wood, with no data available. I will be
> conducting tests to see which epoxies work best, and
> whether it works with polyester.
> Thoughts?
I would use it on all critical structures � mast, partners, centerboard
trunk, transom, bulkheads, keel,...
Bill Kreamer
-----Original Message-----
From: ericmc919 [mailto:ericmc919@...]
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 12:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] HMR Primer
The patent on HMR is owned by the Forest service. The
reports on the material shows significant improvement
in the delamination properties if used between wood
and epoxy. The product is not currently on the
market. As a soon to be unemployed engineer (Darn
RIF), I have been looking at manufacturing HMR for
commercial and industrial sale. The reports call out
for the use of 1/2 primer weight to epoxy weight.
This is for a single layer of epoxy, with multiple
layers not needing the primer. Given that and my
current building project I would think that quart of
primer should be used per gallon of epoxy. Given my
estimates of manufacturing and licensing costs, a
quart should cost about $8-$10.
I realize that a well built joint should never have
water getting to the wood-epoxy joint, however I would
think that using the primer would be good safety
measure in case of wear and tear.
The current formulation I am looking at would be two
part, that is mixed by the builder, applied, and then
can be used any time within the next 16 days. The
only delay in using it is to let the water to
evaporate.
SO now the big question: Is there interest in the
building community for this material?
I have asked about the use of the primer on Polyester
resins and wood, with no data available. I will be
conducting tests to see which epoxies work best, and
whether it works with polyester.
Thoughts?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trunk, transom, bulkheads, keel,...
Bill Kreamer
-----Original Message-----
From: ericmc919 [mailto:ericmc919@...]
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 12:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] HMR Primer
The patent on HMR is owned by the Forest service. The
reports on the material shows significant improvement
in the delamination properties if used between wood
and epoxy. The product is not currently on the
market. As a soon to be unemployed engineer (Darn
RIF), I have been looking at manufacturing HMR for
commercial and industrial sale. The reports call out
for the use of 1/2 primer weight to epoxy weight.
This is for a single layer of epoxy, with multiple
layers not needing the primer. Given that and my
current building project I would think that quart of
primer should be used per gallon of epoxy. Given my
estimates of manufacturing and licensing costs, a
quart should cost about $8-$10.
I realize that a well built joint should never have
water getting to the wood-epoxy joint, however I would
think that using the primer would be good safety
measure in case of wear and tear.
The current formulation I am looking at would be two
part, that is mixed by the builder, applied, and then
can be used any time within the next 16 days. The
only delay in using it is to let the water to
evaporate.
SO now the big question: Is there interest in the
building community for this material?
I have asked about the use of the primer on Polyester
resins and wood, with no data available. I will be
conducting tests to see which epoxies work best, and
whether it works with polyester.
Thoughts?
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ADVERTISEMENT
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065791:HM/A=1227861/R=0/*http://ads.track-star.com/linker.ts?ts=1;2;312;
3_2_11>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello Eric,
It just dawned on me that you are an engineer and perhaps best
qualified to interpet the research report post by Richard regarding
HMR,
was that the test subjects were all un-coated bits of lumber
laminated together and that when these bits were put through wet dry
cycling,the glue joints essentially failed to meet pre-set
standards,unlike those pieces first primed with HMR. This led me to
conclude that,so long as the pieces were sealed against moisture
infiltration,the integrity of the joint would not be comprimised.The
encapsulation of dry wood,after laminating,with multiple layers of
epoxy therefore would make the whole need for priming unnecessary,no?
The report also appeared to report superior bonding over a
phenolic coating,no?
The above does rely on the integrity of the multiple coatings of
epoxy to not be comprimised........hopefully,repairs would be
effected without too much lag time between that first impact and
catastrophic failure of the laminate.
I look forward to reading your understanding of the report by
C.B.Vick and believe many others in this group do too.At the very
least,I will be able to see just how far off the mark I am regarding
my very thick understanding of it :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,"Damnit Jim,I'm an orderly not an engineer!",from the
rainy shores of the St.Lawrence
It just dawned on me that you are an engineer and perhaps best
qualified to interpet the research report post by Richard regarding
HMR,
>http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/PDF1997/vick97c.pdfAs I previously posted,my"understanding" of the technical report
was that the test subjects were all un-coated bits of lumber
laminated together and that when these bits were put through wet dry
cycling,the glue joints essentially failed to meet pre-set
standards,unlike those pieces first primed with HMR. This led me to
conclude that,so long as the pieces were sealed against moisture
infiltration,the integrity of the joint would not be comprimised.The
encapsulation of dry wood,after laminating,with multiple layers of
epoxy therefore would make the whole need for priming unnecessary,no?
The report also appeared to report superior bonding over a
phenolic coating,no?
The above does rely on the integrity of the multiple coatings of
epoxy to not be comprimised........hopefully,repairs would be
effected without too much lag time between that first impact and
catastrophic failure of the laminate.
I look forward to reading your understanding of the report by
C.B.Vick and believe many others in this group do too.At the very
least,I will be able to see just how far off the mark I am regarding
my very thick understanding of it :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,"Damnit Jim,I'm an orderly not an engineer!",from the
rainy shores of the St.Lawrence
--- In bolger@y..., "ericmc919" <ericmc919@y...> wrote:
> The intent of the comment is that only one coat of primer is needed
> for multiple layers of epoxy. From all of the discussion, I get the
> impression that having the epoxy-wood layer bonded well IF it was
> exposed to water would be a good thing.
> Thanks
> Eric
The intent of the comment is that only one coat of primer is needed
for multiple layers of epoxy. From all of the discussion, I get the
impression that having the epoxy-wood layer bonded well IF it was
exposed to water would be a good thing.
Thanks
Eric
for multiple layers of epoxy. From all of the discussion, I get the
impression that having the epoxy-wood layer bonded well IF it was
exposed to water would be a good thing.
Thanks
Eric
--- In bolger@y..., "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@b...> wrote:
> --- In bolger@y..., "ericmc919" <ericmc919@y...> wrote:
> > This is for a single layer of epoxy, with multiple
> > layers not needing the primer.
>
>
> Hello,
> I cannot speak to the marketablity of this product but I suspect
> that the above sentence from your text pretty much sums it up for
> most builders who go the wood epoxy saturation route which calls for
> multiple coats of epoxy anyway.Unlike amateur aircraft builders,the
> weight of the finished amateur built boat is rarely so critical that
> only one coat of epoxy can be used.........
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan
--- In bolger@y..., "ericmc919" <ericmc919@y...> wrote:
I cannot speak to the marketablity of this product but I suspect
that the above sentence from your text pretty much sums it up for
most builders who go the wood epoxy saturation route which calls for
multiple coats of epoxy anyway.Unlike amateur aircraft builders,the
weight of the finished amateur built boat is rarely so critical that
only one coat of epoxy can be used.........
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> This is for a single layer of epoxy, with multipleHello,
> layers not needing the primer.
I cannot speak to the marketablity of this product but I suspect
that the above sentence from your text pretty much sums it up for
most builders who go the wood epoxy saturation route which calls for
multiple coats of epoxy anyway.Unlike amateur aircraft builders,the
weight of the finished amateur built boat is rarely so critical that
only one coat of epoxy can be used.........
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
The patent on HMR is owned by the Forest service. The
reports on the material shows significant improvement
in the delamination properties if used between wood
and epoxy. The product is not currently on the
market. As a soon to be unemployed engineer (Darn
RIF), I have been looking at manufacturing HMR for
commercial and industrial sale. The reports call out
for the use of 1/2 primer weight to epoxy weight.
This is for a single layer of epoxy, with multiple
layers not needing the primer. Given that and my
current building project I would think that quart of
primer should be used per gallon of epoxy. Given my
estimates of manufacturing and licensing costs, a
quart should cost about $8-$10.
I realize that a well built joint should never have
water getting to the wood-epoxy joint, however I would
think that using the primer would be good safety
measure in case of wear and tear.
The current formulation I am looking at would be two
part, that is mixed by the builder, applied, and then
can be used any time within the next 16 days. The
only delay in using it is to let the water to
evaporate.
SO now the big question: Is there interest in the
building community for this material?
I have asked about the use of the primer on Polyester
resins and wood, with no data available. I will be
conducting tests to see which epoxies work best, and
whether it works with polyester.
Thoughts?
reports on the material shows significant improvement
in the delamination properties if used between wood
and epoxy. The product is not currently on the
market. As a soon to be unemployed engineer (Darn
RIF), I have been looking at manufacturing HMR for
commercial and industrial sale. The reports call out
for the use of 1/2 primer weight to epoxy weight.
This is for a single layer of epoxy, with multiple
layers not needing the primer. Given that and my
current building project I would think that quart of
primer should be used per gallon of epoxy. Given my
estimates of manufacturing and licensing costs, a
quart should cost about $8-$10.
I realize that a well built joint should never have
water getting to the wood-epoxy joint, however I would
think that using the primer would be good safety
measure in case of wear and tear.
The current formulation I am looking at would be two
part, that is mixed by the builder, applied, and then
can be used any time within the next 16 days. The
only delay in using it is to let the water to
evaporate.
SO now the big question: Is there interest in the
building community for this material?
I have asked about the use of the primer on Polyester
resins and wood, with no data available. I will be
conducting tests to see which epoxies work best, and
whether it works with polyester.
Thoughts?