Re: [bolger] Re: Sweet Pea Lite ?
In a message dated 10/2/02 10:08:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
lincolnr@...writes:
successfully tested, illustrated in WoodenBoat in the not too distant past.
I've made a quick check of the tables of contents on a dozen or so back
issues without finding the article. To the best of my recollection, the
dagger board had a semi-circular head and was fitted to a "carrier" which
slotted into the dagger board slot. The working portion was held in position
by a shock cord in a groove along the head. If the board struck an
obstruction, it was supposed to pivot aft and out of the case, but not cause
any structural damage to the case and be retrievable after the obstruction
was passed. I'm sorry I can't provide a citation - it certainly looked well
thought out and had reportedly been tested on "ledges" on the coast of Maine,
if I recall correctly.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lincolnr@...writes:
> I've often thought about a 2 part daggerboard with a tonge toThere was a fully developed "break-away" dagger board concept, supposedly
> join the two halves to it comes off if you hit something.
successfully tested, illustrated in WoodenBoat in the not too distant past.
I've made a quick check of the tables of contents on a dozen or so back
issues without finding the article. To the best of my recollection, the
dagger board had a semi-circular head and was fitted to a "carrier" which
slotted into the dagger board slot. The working portion was held in position
by a shock cord in a groove along the head. If the board struck an
obstruction, it was supposed to pivot aft and out of the case, but not cause
any structural damage to the case and be retrievable after the obstruction
was passed. I'm sorry I can't provide a citation - it certainly looked well
thought out and had reportedly been tested on "ledges" on the coast of Maine,
if I recall correctly.
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Canoe" certainly has its virtues, and I have the plans for a VERY
similar 16-foot decked sailing canoe by John Bull, the Peterboat.
The hull is the essentially the same shape as Canoe, the only
difference being the length and the decking. However, when I'm not
sailing I'd rather be rowing than paddling, and the stability of
something wider than Canoe would be welcome.
As it happens, I'm thinking about a light version of Sweet Pea as an
alternative to two other boats: Joel White's "Shearwater," and the
new "Skerry" kit boat from Chesapeake Light Craft. Both are 16-foot
rowing and sailing craft based on Norweigian boats, with three planks
to a side. Sweet Pea is similar in shape but slightly smaller, with
two side panels rather than 3 and with a flat bottom rather a
shallow "v". Skerry weighs in at 100 lbs.; Shearwater is a bit
heavier.
Given that Sweet Pea has fewer panels and is stitch and glue
construction rather than lapstrake, she'd be faster and easier to
build than the other two boats, and, with changes, I see no reason
that she couldn't be as light as Skerry. What I have in mind is
essentially to use Sweet Pea's shape and panel dimensions, but borrow
construction details from the other boats to keep her lighter.
similar 16-foot decked sailing canoe by John Bull, the Peterboat.
The hull is the essentially the same shape as Canoe, the only
difference being the length and the decking. However, when I'm not
sailing I'd rather be rowing than paddling, and the stability of
something wider than Canoe would be welcome.
As it happens, I'm thinking about a light version of Sweet Pea as an
alternative to two other boats: Joel White's "Shearwater," and the
new "Skerry" kit boat from Chesapeake Light Craft. Both are 16-foot
rowing and sailing craft based on Norweigian boats, with three planks
to a side. Sweet Pea is similar in shape but slightly smaller, with
two side panels rather than 3 and with a flat bottom rather a
shallow "v". Skerry weighs in at 100 lbs.; Shearwater is a bit
heavier.
Given that Sweet Pea has fewer panels and is stitch and glue
construction rather than lapstrake, she'd be faster and easier to
build than the other two boats, and, with changes, I see no reason
that she couldn't be as light as Skerry. What I have in mind is
essentially to use Sweet Pea's shape and panel dimensions, but borrow
construction details from the other boats to keep her lighter.
--- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
>
> Bolger's most strenuous effort at light weight in a boat of similar
> size is the Canoe, aka Pirogue.
>
> Seehttp://www.instantboats.com/canoe.html
>
> Perhaps you can borrow some of the construction details. Obviously,
> the Canoe is a less stable, flatwater boat.
>
> Peter
> I have the plans for Sweet Pea and I'm thinking about trying tobuild a lightweight version for cartopping...
Given the number of changes you have in mind, I wonder if perhaps you
should be starting with a different design.
Bolger's most strenuous effort at light weight in a boat of similar
size is the Canoe, aka Pirogue.
Seehttp://www.instantboats.com/canoe.html
Perhaps you can borrow some of the construction details. Obviously,
the Canoe is a less stable, flatwater boat.
Peter
THe definition of a cartop boat is variable. 15 years ago, I would
have thought nothing of a cartop boat 50 lbs heavier than I'd consider
now. Now I'd only consider about 90 lbs or less, maybe 100. 75
lbs is not a problem, tho I admit in the case of the Brick it's a bit
awkward. Not so with my 14' rowing boat. ALso, I think careful
planning about how to handle the boat may make a big difference, as
will ocume (sp????). Still, bracing for sailing is going to take some
heavy thinking. I wonder if some kind of removable, spider shaped
space frame (with the partners at the body of the spider) which bolts
on after the boat is off the car wouldn't do the trick. Of course,
making it so it isn't in the way won't be easy. If twist is a problem,
narrow side decks high up might help. Or maybe a wide gunwhale with
the Carnell flange (middle part of gunwhale is maybe 3/4" sq., outer
would be 1.5" X .75" like an I beam. I suspect a rowing version would
not be a problem.
have thought nothing of a cartop boat 50 lbs heavier than I'd consider
now. Now I'd only consider about 90 lbs or less, maybe 100. 75
lbs is not a problem, tho I admit in the case of the Brick it's a bit
awkward. Not so with my 14' rowing boat. ALso, I think careful
planning about how to handle the boat may make a big difference, as
will ocume (sp????). Still, bracing for sailing is going to take some
heavy thinking. I wonder if some kind of removable, spider shaped
space frame (with the partners at the body of the spider) which bolts
on after the boat is off the car wouldn't do the trick. Of course,
making it so it isn't in the way won't be easy. If twist is a problem,
narrow side decks high up might help. Or maybe a wide gunwhale with
the Carnell flange (middle part of gunwhale is maybe 3/4" sq., outer
would be 1.5" X .75" like an I beam. I suspect a rowing version would
not be a problem.
--- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> >I have the plans for Sweet Pea and I'm thinking about trying to
build
> >a lightweight version for cartopping (i.e. 100 pounds max for the
> >bare hull).
> >
> >I note from the archives that others have considered something like
> >this. Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions? Thanks!
> >
>
> I build my Gull light as a dared (1/4 luan, center frame only, 3/4
> gallon epoxy, 1 quart paint) and she's barely a single handed cartop
> boat. Even with the addition of the necessary framing to include a
> sailing rig, I can't imagine she'd be strong enough to be sailed,
> except very, very gently.
>
> Whatever ever you're thinking of doing, I'd take an approach that
> will let you go back and beef things up once you see how much your
> boat twists under the press of sail.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
> --
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
>I have the plans for Sweet Pea and I'm thinking about trying to buildI build my Gull light as a dared (1/4 luan, center frame only, 3/4
>a lightweight version for cartopping (i.e. 100 pounds max for the
>bare hull).
>
>I note from the archives that others have considered something like
>this. Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions? Thanks!
>
gallon epoxy, 1 quart paint) and she's barely a single handed cartop
boat. Even with the addition of the necessary framing to include a
sailing rig, I can't imagine she'd be strong enough to be sailed,
except very, very gently.
Whatever ever you're thinking of doing, I'd take an approach that
will let you go back and beef things up once you see how much your
boat twists under the press of sail.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
I'd guess you're on the right track. Consider a movable rowing seat,
just a small stool to sit on. Centerboard is going to take up some
space. I've often thought about a 2 part daggerboard with a tonge to
join the two halves to it comes off if you hit something. COuld be
retained with a cord so you could put it back together. Haven't got it
all figured out yet. If you use a real airfoil there ought to be
enough thickness to do it. I have thought of making bouyancy chambers
using Platt Monfort's aircraft covering material idea, also seats from
this stuff.
It might be possible to make daggerboard trunk low enough to take
inserted t shaped seat when rowing.
just a small stool to sit on. Centerboard is going to take up some
space. I've often thought about a 2 part daggerboard with a tonge to
join the two halves to it comes off if you hit something. COuld be
retained with a cord so you could put it back together. Haven't got it
all figured out yet. If you use a real airfoil there ought to be
enough thickness to do it. I have thought of making bouyancy chambers
using Platt Monfort's aircraft covering material idea, also seats from
this stuff.
It might be possible to make daggerboard trunk low enough to take
inserted t shaped seat when rowing.
--- In bolger@y..., "s_paskey" <s_paskey@y...> wrote:
> I have the plans for Sweet Pea and I'm thinking about trying to
build
> a lightweight version for cartopping (i.e. 100 pounds max for the
> bare hull). If I did, I'd probably eliminate the side decks, use
> laminated frames (ala Joel White's nutshell and shearwater) for
> strength where needed, install removable rowing thwarts, and use
> okoume ply (1/4 for the sides and 3/8 for the bottom, rather than
the
> 1/2 bottom specified by PCB). I'd like to sail her, but am not keen
> on the removable keel and would prefer a centerboard (though a
> daggerboard would be acceptable).
>
> I note from the archives that others have considered something like
> this. Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions? Thanks!
>
> Steve Paskey
I have the plans for Sweet Pea and I'm thinking about trying to build
a lightweight version for cartopping (i.e. 100 pounds max for the
bare hull). If I did, I'd probably eliminate the side decks, use
laminated frames (ala Joel White's nutshell and shearwater) for
strength where needed, install removable rowing thwarts, and use
okoume ply (1/4 for the sides and 3/8 for the bottom, rather than the
1/2 bottom specified by PCB). I'd like to sail her, but am not keen
on the removable keel and would prefer a centerboard (though a
daggerboard would be acceptable).
I note from the archives that others have considered something like
this. Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions? Thanks!
Steve Paskey
a lightweight version for cartopping (i.e. 100 pounds max for the
bare hull). If I did, I'd probably eliminate the side decks, use
laminated frames (ala Joel White's nutshell and shearwater) for
strength where needed, install removable rowing thwarts, and use
okoume ply (1/4 for the sides and 3/8 for the bottom, rather than the
1/2 bottom specified by PCB). I'd like to sail her, but am not keen
on the removable keel and would prefer a centerboard (though a
daggerboard would be acceptable).
I note from the archives that others have considered something like
this. Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions? Thanks!
Steve Paskey