Re: AS 29 -navigator???
I uploaded a file in Bolger 2 entitled "Offshore Leeboader" and it
contains a cartoon of that design. I will add the study plan when I
figure out a compact way of doing it.
I just noticed that Part Ten of BWAOM is entitled "Real Cruisers" and
included in the group is "Superbrick" I love his final comments on
this design:
"It's self-righting, unsinkable, strong and stiff, none of which
entitles it to be called seaworthy, if only because, in bad weather,
at sea, it would jar and rattle it's crew to exhaustion.
Irresponsibe. A gratuitious mockery of Right-Thinking Boatmen and
other snobs."
Amen! Nels
contains a cartoon of that design. I will add the study plan when I
figure out a compact way of doing it.
I just noticed that Part Ten of BWAOM is entitled "Real Cruisers" and
included in the group is "Superbrick" I love his final comments on
this design:
"It's self-righting, unsinkable, strong and stiff, none of which
entitles it to be called seaworthy, if only because, in bad weather,
at sea, it would jar and rattle it's crew to exhaustion.
Irresponsibe. A gratuitious mockery of Right-Thinking Boatmen and
other snobs."
Amen! Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a
coastal
> cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
> to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
>
> I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
> message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be
greatly
> apreciated.
>
> QYid (Sam)
> samh@w...
John, et al,
I'll post the article on the Bolger 2 site, probably on Monday, if
there are no objections. It takes me a while to sort out the
scanner and such. The article includes cartoons and some pictures of
the boat,btw,
porky
I'll post the article on the Bolger 2 site, probably on Monday, if
there are no objections. It takes me a while to sort out the
scanner and such. The article includes cartoons and some pictures of
the boat,btw,
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
> Please! I'd love to read the write-up and see a drawing or two! I
knew a guy
> who built Romp, but have since lost contact with him. Too bad I
didn't know
> him after I got into Bolger's work...
>
> JB
--- In bolger@y..., "david galvin" <porcupine@d...> wrote:
AAh ha! Here is a fine example of a problem,which is in
fact"documented",that could easily be avoided by using the "Hollow"
building tip found in the files section.This technique really shines
in tough use situations like centerboard/bilgeboard cases where alot
of stresses can be expected and things need to be backed up with
mechanical fasteners(bolts,screws).This technique allows you to
really crank down good and hard on the bolts without risk of
squeezing out all that precious epoxy helping to keep that joint
watertight. Thanks for opening the door for me to toot my
favorite"boatbuilding" trick!
After all, other, more inappropriate
saying,"TINKERBELL crossed the Atlantic and the TITANIC sank!".....
In the end,I guess alot of it really depends on just how much
hardship one is willing to put up with in the pursuit of some private
dream.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Micro owner/builder and Windermere builder,from the
shores of the St.Lawrence...................................
>David,
> As I see it, those damned bilgeboard cases, with their documented
> tendency to leak, are the main problem with the AS-29.
AAh ha! Here is a fine example of a problem,which is in
fact"documented",that could easily be avoided by using the "Hollow"
building tip found in the files section.This technique really shines
in tough use situations like centerboard/bilgeboard cases where alot
of stresses can be expected and things need to be backed up with
mechanical fasteners(bolts,screws).This technique allows you to
really crank down good and hard on the bolts without risk of
squeezing out all that precious epoxy helping to keep that joint
watertight. Thanks for opening the door for me to toot my
favorite"boatbuilding" trick!
After all, other, more inappropriate
> boats, have done the job, and the AS-29 (as drawn) is less likelyto
> sink than most monohulls,Very true David!! As a friend of mine is fond of
>
> porky
saying,"TINKERBELL crossed the Atlantic and the TITANIC sank!".....
In the end,I guess alot of it really depends on just how much
hardship one is willing to put up with in the pursuit of some private
dream.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,Micro owner/builder and Windermere builder,from the
shores of the St.Lawrence...................................
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "david galvin" <porcupine@...>
Another, less sensible, alternative is to
| build Bolger's Romp, a cold molded (or strip planked, or molded
| fiberglass, or carvel) 30'x8'x not much centerboarder that the
| designer has called his most seaworthy design. There's a write-up on
| the boat in an old MAIB, which I'll dig up if you're interested.
Please! I'd love to read the write-up and see a drawing or two! I knew a guy
who built Romp, but have since lost contact with him. Too bad I didn't know
him after I got into Bolger's work...
JB
JB
Anybody have a cartoon of Romp?
----- Original Message -----
From: "david galvin" <porcupine@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:18 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: AS 29 -navigator???
> Sam,
>
> The sensible thing to do is to get a used, proven vessel, say a
> Pearson Triton <http://home.netcom.com/~suter/triton.html> for about
> $10,000, fix it up, and sail that. When you tire of sailing, at least
> you'll be assured of a ready market for your boat. All right, so it
> draws four feet of water. Another, less sensible, alternative is to
> build Bolger's Romp, a cold molded (or strip planked, or molded
> fiberglass, or carvel) 30'x8'x not much centerboarder that the
> designer has called his most seaworthy design. There's a write-up on
> the boat in an old MAIB, which I'll dig up if you're interested. The
> ease of plywood construction on a 30' boat is probably over rated,
> although Bob and Sheila Wise did well with their (Larger) Loose Moose
> II.
>
> As I see it, those damned bilgeboard cases, with their documented
> tendency to leak, are the main problem with the AS-29. Of lesser
> concern is where to put the self-steering gear, an issue with most
> yawls and ketches. The rig and interior are less than optimal, but
> certainly no worse than many production vessels that regularly make
> passages.
>
> I suspect that someone will eventually circumnavigate with an AS-29,
> in spite of its supposed faults. After all, other, more inappropriate
> boats, have done the job, and the AS-29 (as drawn) is less likely to
> sink than most monohulls,
>
> porky
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a
> coastal
> > cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
> > to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
> >
> > I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
> > message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be
> greatly
> > apreciated.
> >
> > QYid (Sam)
> > samh@w...
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Sam,
The sensible thing to do is to get a used, proven vessel, say a
Pearson Triton <http://home.netcom.com/~suter/triton.html> for about
$10,000, fix it up, and sail that. When you tire of sailing, at least
you'll be assured of a ready market for your boat. All right, so it
draws four feet of water. Another, less sensible, alternative is to
build Bolger's Romp, a cold molded (or strip planked, or molded
fiberglass, or carvel) 30'x8'x not much centerboarder that the
designer has called his most seaworthy design. There's a write-up on
the boat in an old MAIB, which I'll dig up if you're interested. The
ease of plywood construction on a 30' boat is probably over rated,
although Bob and Sheila Wise did well with their (Larger) Loose Moose
II.
As I see it, those damned bilgeboard cases, with their documented
tendency to leak, are the main problem with the AS-29. Of lesser
concern is where to put the self-steering gear, an issue with most
yawls and ketches. The rig and interior are less than optimal, but
certainly no worse than many production vessels that regularly make
passages.
I suspect that someone will eventually circumnavigate with an AS-29,
in spite of its supposed faults. After all, other, more inappropriate
boats, have done the job, and the AS-29 (as drawn) is less likely to
sink than most monohulls,
porky
The sensible thing to do is to get a used, proven vessel, say a
Pearson Triton <http://home.netcom.com/~suter/triton.html> for about
$10,000, fix it up, and sail that. When you tire of sailing, at least
you'll be assured of a ready market for your boat. All right, so it
draws four feet of water. Another, less sensible, alternative is to
build Bolger's Romp, a cold molded (or strip planked, or molded
fiberglass, or carvel) 30'x8'x not much centerboarder that the
designer has called his most seaworthy design. There's a write-up on
the boat in an old MAIB, which I'll dig up if you're interested. The
ease of plywood construction on a 30' boat is probably over rated,
although Bob and Sheila Wise did well with their (Larger) Loose Moose
II.
As I see it, those damned bilgeboard cases, with their documented
tendency to leak, are the main problem with the AS-29. Of lesser
concern is where to put the self-steering gear, an issue with most
yawls and ketches. The rig and interior are less than optimal, but
certainly no worse than many production vessels that regularly make
passages.
I suspect that someone will eventually circumnavigate with an AS-29,
in spite of its supposed faults. After all, other, more inappropriate
boats, have done the job, and the AS-29 (as drawn) is less likely to
sink than most monohulls,
porky
--- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a
coastal
> cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
> to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
>
> I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
> message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be
greatly
> apreciated.
>
> QYid (Sam)
> samh@w...
I've had conversations with Bob Wise as well as Phil Bolger about the LMII.
I was considering the LMII very heavily against the Wyo. The only issue was
the the high sided LMII made daily dingy access a pain. Other than that,
for the money it was a very successful project in time, materials, and
especially performance.
I opted for the Wyo because I was convinced by others as well as myself that
on the Great Cirlcy route, motoring is 95% of the time or more. No reason
to have the sails and expense if it's rarely going to be used.
The Wyo is a lot easier to build and only 12 feet longer than the LMII.
Jeff
I was considering the LMII very heavily against the Wyo. The only issue was
the the high sided LMII made daily dingy access a pain. Other than that,
for the money it was a very successful project in time, materials, and
especially performance.
I opted for the Wyo because I was convinced by others as well as myself that
on the Great Cirlcy route, motoring is 95% of the time or more. No reason
to have the sails and expense if it's rarely going to be used.
The Wyo is a lot easier to build and only 12 feet longer than the LMII.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ryan" <david@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:09 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: AS 29 -navigator???
> >A larger version of the AS29, Loose Moose had an "uneventful"
> >transatlantic crossing according to PCB.
>
> The builder of the LMII also reports he had the Moose out in the
> Mediterranean in force ten conditions and it was as pleasant as such
> condition might be. I've communicated with Bob Wise at length about
> the LMII and he seems quite satisfied with what he got for his time
> (6 months) and his money (less than many people spend on a car.)
> Remember, the commission was for a low-cost live-aboard barge that
> could safely cross an ocean when/if necessary. By those parameters it
> can only be called a success.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
> --
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>A larger version of the AS29, Loose Moose had an "uneventful"The builder of the LMII also reports he had the Moose out in the
>transatlantic crossing according to PCB.
Mediterranean in force ten conditions and it was as pleasant as such
condition might be. I've communicated with Bob Wise at length about
the LMII and he seems quite satisfied with what he got for his time
(6 months) and his money (less than many people spend on a car.)
Remember, the commission was for a low-cost live-aboard barge that
could safely cross an ocean when/if necessary. By those parameters it
can only be called a success.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
A larger version of the AS29, Loose Moose had an "uneventful"
transatlantic crossing according to PCB.
In his book "BWAOM" here is what Phil has to say about Loose Moose:
"It's possible that for running down the tradewinds she would benefit
from a temporary extension to her bow, to mitigate the bow transom's
tendency to bury, drag, and yaw in a steep sea. It wouldn't be much
trouble to add, but it may be simpler to ease up driving her when she
is unhappy. Ocean passages will be rare, and need not be fast."
IMHO that is not a very good recommendation... Nels
transatlantic crossing according to PCB.
In his book "BWAOM" here is what Phil has to say about Loose Moose:
"It's possible that for running down the tradewinds she would benefit
from a temporary extension to her bow, to mitigate the bow transom's
tendency to bury, drag, and yaw in a steep sea. It wouldn't be much
trouble to add, but it may be simpler to ease up driving her when she
is unhappy. Ocean passages will be rare, and need not be fast."
IMHO that is not a very good recommendation... Nels
Are you looking into buying an existing boat, or are you thinking of
building new?
If buying, I think (as an AS29 owner) that the boat could be safely
sailed offshore if need be; I wouldn't be over-worried but I wouldn't
recommend it as a regular habit and would pick my weather very
carefully. I'd go out of my way to plan a route to minimize the
possibility of having to beat to windward off a shoaling lee shore
(or worse- powering off a lee shore). I'd also try to avoid any
downwind conditions that would roll that long boom into the water.
The shape is wrong, the rig is wrong, the interior would need a lot
of changes.
If I was interested in a world cruise, I'd sell my AS29 and get
something more appropriate. Look into Bolger's "Ataraxia" for an
example.
If building new, IMO modifying the AS29 for this is one of the
sillier projects you could get into. The AS29 is the most carefully
integrated design I have ever seen- period. Virtually any change from
the plans degrades the boat. Contact Bolger directly by fax or mail,
he's not a netizen- he has an "AS31" design partially finished,
waiting for a commission to finish it. Go that route, or ask him
about one of his other designs near the same size that would be more
appropriate- there are several.
Also- the appearance of constructional simplicity is misleading-
despite the "simple" shape, the AS29 will not take any less time to
build than more conventional boats the same size- and those boats
will be better for what you want than the AS29 will ever be.
So I suggest you leave the AS29 as it is- a near-ideal coastal
cruiser- and look elsewhere.
building new?
If buying, I think (as an AS29 owner) that the boat could be safely
sailed offshore if need be; I wouldn't be over-worried but I wouldn't
recommend it as a regular habit and would pick my weather very
carefully. I'd go out of my way to plan a route to minimize the
possibility of having to beat to windward off a shoaling lee shore
(or worse- powering off a lee shore). I'd also try to avoid any
downwind conditions that would roll that long boom into the water.
The shape is wrong, the rig is wrong, the interior would need a lot
of changes.
If I was interested in a world cruise, I'd sell my AS29 and get
something more appropriate. Look into Bolger's "Ataraxia" for an
example.
If building new, IMO modifying the AS29 for this is one of the
sillier projects you could get into. The AS29 is the most carefully
integrated design I have ever seen- period. Virtually any change from
the plans degrades the boat. Contact Bolger directly by fax or mail,
he's not a netizen- he has an "AS31" design partially finished,
waiting for a commission to finish it. Go that route, or ask him
about one of his other designs near the same size that would be more
appropriate- there are several.
Also- the appearance of constructional simplicity is misleading-
despite the "simple" shape, the AS29 will not take any less time to
build than more conventional boats the same size- and those boats
will be better for what you want than the AS29 will ever be.
So I suggest you leave the AS29 as it is- a near-ideal coastal
cruiser- and look elsewhere.
--- In bolger@y..., "qyid" <samhalperin@a...> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a
coastal
> cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
> to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
>
> I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
> message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be
greatly
> apreciated.
>
> QYid (Sam)
> samh@w...
Hello everyone,
It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a coastal
cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be greatly
apreciated.
QYid (Sam)
samh@...
It is my understanding that the Bolger AS-29 is spec'ed as a coastal
cruiser. I was wondering what would have to be done to this design
to make it open ocean capable, a world cruiser?
I would certainly love to hear from group members, but if this
message happens to reach Mr. Bolger as well a reply would be greatly
apreciated.
QYid (Sam)
samh@...