Re: Brick -- sail Pacific
Would the boat
It might possibly increase the stability. There certainly is some pressure on the leeboard trying to lift water at the boat heels. The down side is that it increases the wetted surface and therefore drag.
The first stitch and glue boat I built was in 1966 and had two bilge boards...worked fine.
Reed
> have greater stability with leeboards on both port and starboard,Hi Ben,
> or would that be redundant and just slow it down?
>
> Ben
>
It might possibly increase the stability. There certainly is some pressure on the leeboard trying to lift water at the boat heels. The down side is that it increases the wetted surface and therefore drag.
The first stitch and glue boat I built was in 1966 and had two bilge boards...worked fine.
Reed
Todd,
Sent you an email regarding the Brick. I'd love to drive
down and get it from you.
Many thanks
Jack
Sent you an email regarding the Brick. I'd love to drive
down and get it from you.
Many thanks
Jack
I never noticed a big difference in heeling from one tack to another.
If the mast is on the low side, its weight is unfavorable. If the mast
is on the high side, the sail is higher above the water so there
should be more heeling moment. Putting the mast on the side is
brilliant as it gets the !@#$$ thing out of the way and saves you from
having to make extra parts. If you put the step in the middle the bow
transom will have to have extra reinforcement on the top, I bet, to
take extra force on downwind runs. The whole point of the Brick
is to have something simple and capacious that will build easily.
If you want to do more work, make something else. Don't screw with
this design unless you really know what to expect. BTW, previous
advice doesn't extend to tip up rudder, which would be well worth it.
Brick as designed is amazingly stable and works well.
P.S. A lighter boom would be nice but is not critical as it's not
likely to hit you because it's so high up.
If the mast is on the low side, its weight is unfavorable. If the mast
is on the high side, the sail is higher above the water so there
should be more heeling moment. Putting the mast on the side is
brilliant as it gets the !@#$$ thing out of the way and saves you from
having to make extra parts. If you put the step in the middle the bow
transom will have to have extra reinforcement on the top, I bet, to
take extra force on downwind runs. The whole point of the Brick
is to have something simple and capacious that will build easily.
If you want to do more work, make something else. Don't screw with
this design unless you really know what to expect. BTW, previous
advice doesn't extend to tip up rudder, which would be well worth it.
Brick as designed is amazingly stable and works well.
P.S. A lighter boom would be nice but is not critical as it's not
likely to hit you because it's so high up.
--- In bolger@y..., "betrumble" <betrumble@y...> wrote:
> I don't know much about the Brick beyond a few pictures. I can
> see the sense in moving the mast to the middle. Would the boat
> have greater stability with leeboards on both port and starboard,
> or would that be redundant and just slow it down?
>
> Ben
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "captreed2000" <captreed@a...> wrote:
>
> It's a good sailor, though I wound up putting the mast in the
> center. In strong winds with the wind on the port side it was hard
> to keep the boat on it's feet with the mast on the starboard side.
>
> I've sailed it on the open Pacific, but always with a nearby harbor
> to run into if things get too sporting.
I don't know much about the Brick beyond a few pictures. I can
see the sense in moving the mast to the middle. Would the boat
have greater stability with leeboards on both port and starboard,
or would that be redundant and just slow it down?
Ben
see the sense in moving the mast to the middle. Would the boat
have greater stability with leeboards on both port and starboard,
or would that be redundant and just slow it down?
Ben
--- In bolger@y..., "captreed2000" <captreed@a...> wrote:
It's a good sailor, though I wound up putting the mast in the
center. In strong winds with the wind on the port side it was hard
to keep the boat on it's feet with the mast on the starboard side.
I've sailed it on the open Pacific, but always with a nearby harbor
to run into if things get too sporting.
Hi,
I'm glad you got the Brick offer. I've built 3 Tortoise's and stretched one to a Big Tortoise after it was built small, this was to accomodate a crew that was 5'2" tall and 100 pounds. Your crew is a lot more spacious. I've also built an Oldshoe and a Brick.
The Brick is the one you want. It has the capacity for you and your son. It's a good sailor, though I wound up putting the mast in the center. In strong winds with the wind on the port side it was hard to keep the boat on it's feet with the mast on the starboard side. With a 59 sq. ft.sail on a 8 foot hull there is a lot of power. I've towed a broken down outboard skiff with it using sail power.
If you have two to load it on your mini-van it should work well. A trailer is nice, but it makes the equipment list a lot longer. I've launched my Brick in spots no trailer would roll into.
I've sailed it on the open Pacific, but always with a nearby harbor to run into if things get too sporting.
Have fun, Reed
I'm glad you got the Brick offer. I've built 3 Tortoise's and stretched one to a Big Tortoise after it was built small, this was to accomodate a crew that was 5'2" tall and 100 pounds. Your crew is a lot more spacious. I've also built an Oldshoe and a Brick.
The Brick is the one you want. It has the capacity for you and your son. It's a good sailor, though I wound up putting the mast in the center. In strong winds with the wind on the port side it was hard to keep the boat on it's feet with the mast on the starboard side. With a 59 sq. ft.sail on a 8 foot hull there is a lot of power. I've towed a broken down outboard skiff with it using sail power.
If you have two to load it on your mini-van it should work well. A trailer is nice, but it makes the equipment list a lot longer. I've launched my Brick in spots no trailer would roll into.
I've sailed it on the open Pacific, but always with a nearby harbor to run into if things get too sporting.
Have fun, Reed
Bruce,
I have a micro too. But would not want to be pulling my brick
behind it. To much drag in the chop or would be worried it would tip
over or fill with water or break apart. I would tow it behind in the
bay but really see no reason for it in our small bay.
Although if I lived on a lake or river and kept both on the water I
could see the great possibilities of having the brick towing behind.
So I'll give you a shout if I still have it in feb.
Todd
I have a micro too. But would not want to be pulling my brick
behind it. To much drag in the chop or would be worried it would tip
over or fill with water or break apart. I would tow it behind in the
bay but really see no reason for it in our small bay.
Although if I lived on a lake or river and kept both on the water I
could see the great possibilities of having the brick towing behind.
So I'll give you a shout if I still have it in feb.
Todd
--- In bolger@y..., "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> If this give-a-way falls through, I'll be pleased to take it off
your
> hands. I'll give it a good home ..... behind my Micro "Riff-Raff".
> I'll be driving through California from Mexico's Copper Canyon next
> February on my way back to Kingston via Vancover (a little short
cut
> only I know!).
>
> Bruce Hector
If this give-a-way falls through, I'll be pleased to take it off your
hands. I'll give it a good home ..... behind my Micro "Riff-Raff".
I'll be driving through California from Mexico's Copper Canyon next
February on my way back to Kingston via Vancover (a little short cut
only I know!).
Bruce Hector
hands. I'll give it a good home ..... behind my Micro "Riff-Raff".
I'll be driving through California from Mexico's Copper Canyon next
February on my way back to Kingston via Vancover (a little short cut
only I know!).
Bruce Hector
I'm about seven hours from Anaheim. Let me talk with my wife
and I'll shoot you an email. Thanks very much
and I'll shoot you an email. Thanks very much
>
> Stones throw from Angel Stadium.
>
> Todd
--- In bolger@y..., "Jack" <jmold@y...> wrote:
Todd
> Todd,Stones throw from Angel Stadium.
> I'm near Carmel, CA. Thanks for the offer. Where are
> you?
>
> Jack
Todd
Todd,
I'm near Carmel, CA. Thanks for the offer. Where are
you?
Jack
I'm near Carmel, CA. Thanks for the offer. Where are
you?
Jack
--- In bolger@y..., "Jack" <jmold@y...> wrote:
I'm reckoning the Tortoise, like the Brick has a leeboard or
> a daggerboard, and a rudder/tiller in the sailing version?
>
> Thanks Gents.
>
> Jack Mold
Jack ,
Where on the pacific do you live?
I have a brick You can have. All you need is mast and boom. I use the
mast and boom from my brick on another boat now.
Todd
Jack, the question you have put forth is really better made from
someone with a larger boat who wants just the right sized dingy for
the fore deck. I say this because your requirements necessitate a
Brick and you want someone to convince you that a Tortoise would
work.
A Brick is the most logical boat for your needs now. High capacity,
generous freeboard and the ability to have a motor and sail at the
same time. In most Hardware stores out in the west they have these
small folding utility trailers that also have a 4' X 8' deck space.
with some ingenuity you can place a sheet of plywood on the trailer
then put all of your vacation ammenities on the trailer with the
brick for a waterproof cover. I have just a trailer that cost $199.00
on sale that I have carried my wife's paddle boat with. Since I have
had the plans for my Brick I have designed a foam pad for the Bricks
gunnels to fit into to make it air tight and make a storage space
with copious amounts of space.
These utility trailers even have extensions and bunk kits to convert
them for hauling boats up to 1,500 pounds and 18' with an added HD
axle. I am sure your VW could tow such a trailer. Then when your
family decides to upgrade to a larger boat as their proficiency
improves you'll have the trailer for a larger boat.
John
someone with a larger boat who wants just the right sized dingy for
the fore deck. I say this because your requirements necessitate a
Brick and you want someone to convince you that a Tortoise would
work.
A Brick is the most logical boat for your needs now. High capacity,
generous freeboard and the ability to have a motor and sail at the
same time. In most Hardware stores out in the west they have these
small folding utility trailers that also have a 4' X 8' deck space.
with some ingenuity you can place a sheet of plywood on the trailer
then put all of your vacation ammenities on the trailer with the
brick for a waterproof cover. I have just a trailer that cost $199.00
on sale that I have carried my wife's paddle boat with. Since I have
had the plans for my Brick I have designed a foam pad for the Bricks
gunnels to fit into to make it air tight and make a storage space
with copious amounts of space.
These utility trailers even have extensions and bunk kits to convert
them for hauling boats up to 1,500 pounds and 18' with an added HD
axle. I am sure your VW could tow such a trailer. Then when your
family decides to upgrade to a larger boat as their proficiency
improves you'll have the trailer for a larger boat.
John
--- In bolger@y..., "Jack" <jmold@y...> wrote:
> Got a vacation coming up in a couple weeks and I want to build a
> quickie boat to help my kids learn sailing basics. Leaning
> toward the Tortoise because of it's light weight. I could car top
it.
> BUT -- can it sail with two adults (my older son is only 14, but
> he's 6' and 200lbs) and can I add the weight of a battery for a
> trolling motor to get the boat 500 yards from the beach around a
> jetty into an inner harbor where we could sail it? (I live on the
> Pacific so in a micro boat a protected inner harbor is the closest
> thing I have to a lake.) From what I've read a Brick could do the
> job, but a Brick would be much hard to cartop on my VW Eurovan.
>
> Also, I'm reckoning the Tortoise, like the Brick has a leeboard or
> a daggerboard, and a rudder/tiller in the sailing version?
>
> Thanks Gents.
>
> Jack Mold
Our Brick is about 75 lbs. An awkward (but not especially heavy) load
for one guy, easy for two. It's made with luan and is painted. Not
much glass at all. Probably has somewhat more capacity than you need.
Tortoise is shown with waterline at 300 lbs, so I think you would be
overloading it. I think there is something called the Big Tortoise
which is supposed to be a little narrower than the Brick which might
do. Maybe ask Payson?
FOr going 500 yards, I'm not at all sure you should bother with the
electric motor. It's going to be tough to find an out of the way place
to put that battery. If you make a bracket and keep it in the stern,
the boat will tend to tilt back. If you put it in the middle, that's
where you want to sit. Rowing works ok, especially if you have a 6',
200 lb oarsman with a young back! (The young back would only be
required in a headwind or waves). Probably easier to row than one of
those egregious aluminum "rowboats" which are really power skiffs. I
wouldn't want to row for miles in a Brick, though. You might have to
mess around with oarlock locations and seating (we use 3 boat cushions
stacked up). It seems to me that if you can row in a given sea state,
you ought to be able to sail in it, too, tho I'm sure the Brick isn't
the greatest boat to bash into waves with. (We've only had it in
relatively calm water, tho sometimes wind was not calm.)
I hope you can build fast!
P.S. Tortoise drawings in New Instant Boats book show lee/daggerboard
built just inside hull, but I bet you could easily do a Brick style
one mounted on the outside.
for one guy, easy for two. It's made with luan and is painted. Not
much glass at all. Probably has somewhat more capacity than you need.
Tortoise is shown with waterline at 300 lbs, so I think you would be
overloading it. I think there is something called the Big Tortoise
which is supposed to be a little narrower than the Brick which might
do. Maybe ask Payson?
FOr going 500 yards, I'm not at all sure you should bother with the
electric motor. It's going to be tough to find an out of the way place
to put that battery. If you make a bracket and keep it in the stern,
the boat will tend to tilt back. If you put it in the middle, that's
where you want to sit. Rowing works ok, especially if you have a 6',
200 lb oarsman with a young back! (The young back would only be
required in a headwind or waves). Probably easier to row than one of
those egregious aluminum "rowboats" which are really power skiffs. I
wouldn't want to row for miles in a Brick, though. You might have to
mess around with oarlock locations and seating (we use 3 boat cushions
stacked up). It seems to me that if you can row in a given sea state,
you ought to be able to sail in it, too, tho I'm sure the Brick isn't
the greatest boat to bash into waves with. (We've only had it in
relatively calm water, tho sometimes wind was not calm.)
I hope you can build fast!
P.S. Tortoise drawings in New Instant Boats book show lee/daggerboard
built just inside hull, but I bet you could easily do a Brick style
one mounted on the outside.
--- In bolger@y..., "Jack" <jmold@y...> wrote:
> Mike,
> Gracias! The problem with the Eurovan is that it's a pop top,
so
> the luggage rack is pretty small and way up front. I might be able
to
> get a brick inside at an angle, or mostly inside through the hatch
and
> let it sit on the bed and rest against the sink. Do you know the
> average weight on a "finished" Brick?
>
> Again, thanks
>
> Jack
snip
If I was you, I would consider a small trailer. Much easier on the
back and the van, since it will have a much lower center of gravity
and less wind reistance when transporting it.
That way you could take your brick with you camping. The possibilites
are mind boggling!
Nels
back and the van, since it will have a much lower center of gravity
and less wind reistance when transporting it.
That way you could take your brick with you camping. The possibilites
are mind boggling!
Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "Jack" <jmold@y...> wrote:
> Mike,
> Gracias! The problem with the Eurovan is that it's a pop top,
so
> the luggage rack is pretty small and way up front. I might be able
to
> get a brick inside at an angle, or mostly inside through the hatch
and
> let it sit on the bed and rest against the sink. Do you know the
> average weight on a "finished" Brick?
>
> Again, thanks
>
> Jack
>
>
Hi -
I don't remember how heavy it was - sorry...
Mike
I don't remember how heavy it was - sorry...
Mike
--- In bolger@y..., "Jack" <jmold@y...> wrote:
> Mike,
> Gracias! The problem with the Eurovan is that it's a pop top,
so
> the luggage rack is pretty small and way up front. I might be able
to
> get a brick inside at an angle, or mostly inside through the hatch
and
> let it sit on the bed and rest against the sink. Do you know the
> average weight on a "finished" Brick?
>
> Again, thanks
>
> Jack
>
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "mikestockstill" <mkstocks@b...> wrote:
> > Hi Jack -
> >
> > If putting BRICK ON a mini-van is not a good option, consider
instead
> > putting it IN the back of the minivan with the door half open or
> > something. Mast can go on the roof rack.
> >
> > I think your son would be happier aboard BRICK. I think it is
very
> > important to be nice to someone 6', 200 lbs. Brick would be much
> > better for hauling around the battery too.
> >
> > Mike
Mike,
Gracias! The problem with the Eurovan is that it's a pop top, so
the luggage rack is pretty small and way up front. I might be able to
get a brick inside at an angle, or mostly inside through the hatch and
let it sit on the bed and rest against the sink. Do you know the
average weight on a "finished" Brick?
Again, thanks
Jack
Gracias! The problem with the Eurovan is that it's a pop top, so
the luggage rack is pretty small and way up front. I might be able to
get a brick inside at an angle, or mostly inside through the hatch and
let it sit on the bed and rest against the sink. Do you know the
average weight on a "finished" Brick?
Again, thanks
Jack
--- In bolger@y..., "mikestockstill" <mkstocks@b...> wrote:
> Hi Jack -
>
> If putting BRICK ON a mini-van is not a good option, consider instead
> putting it IN the back of the minivan with the door half open or
> something. Mast can go on the roof rack.
>
> I think your son would be happier aboard BRICK. I think it is very
> important to be nice to someone 6', 200 lbs. Brick would be much
> better for hauling around the battery too.
>
> Mike
Hi Jack -
If putting BRICK ON a mini-van is not a good option, consider instead
putting it IN the back of the minivan with the door half open or
something. Mast can go on the roof rack.
I think your son would be happier aboard BRICK. I think it is very
important to be nice to someone 6', 200 lbs. Brick would be much
better for hauling around the battery too.
Mike
-- In bolger@y..., "Jack" <jmold@y...> wrote:
If putting BRICK ON a mini-van is not a good option, consider instead
putting it IN the back of the minivan with the door half open or
something. Mast can go on the roof rack.
I think your son would be happier aboard BRICK. I think it is very
important to be nice to someone 6', 200 lbs. Brick would be much
better for hauling around the battery too.
Mike
-- In bolger@y..., "Jack" <jmold@y...> wrote:
> Got a vacation coming up in a couple weeks and I want to build ait.
> quickie boat to help my kids learn sailing basics. Leaning
> toward the Tortoise because of it's light weight. I could car top
> BUT -- can it sail with two adults (my older son is only 14, but
> he's 6' and 200lbs) and can I add the weight of a battery for a
> trolling motor to get the boat 500 yards from the beach around a
> jetty into an inner harbor where we could sail it? (I live on the
> Pacific so in a micro boat a protected inner harbor is the closest
> thing I have to a lake.) From what I've read a Brick could do the
> job, but a Brick would be much hard to cartop on my VW Eurovan.
>
> Also, I'm reckoning the Tortoise, like the Brick has a leeboard or
> a daggerboard, and a rudder/tiller in the sailing version?
>
> Thanks Gents.
>
> Jack Mold
Got a vacation coming up in a couple weeks and I want to build a
quickie boat to help my kids learn sailing basics. Leaning
toward the Tortoise because of it's light weight. I could car top it.
BUT -- can it sail with two adults (my older son is only 14, but
he's 6' and 200lbs) and can I add the weight of a battery for a
trolling motor to get the boat 500 yards from the beach around a
jetty into an inner harbor where we could sail it? (I live on the
Pacific so in a micro boat a protected inner harbor is the closest
thing I have to a lake.) From what I've read a Brick could do the
job, but a Brick would be much hard to cartop on my VW Eurovan.
Also, I'm reckoning the Tortoise, like the Brick has a leeboard or
a daggerboard, and a rudder/tiller in the sailing version?
Thanks Gents.
Jack Mold
quickie boat to help my kids learn sailing basics. Leaning
toward the Tortoise because of it's light weight. I could car top it.
BUT -- can it sail with two adults (my older son is only 14, but
he's 6' and 200lbs) and can I add the weight of a battery for a
trolling motor to get the boat 500 yards from the beach around a
jetty into an inner harbor where we could sail it? (I live on the
Pacific so in a micro boat a protected inner harbor is the closest
thing I have to a lake.) From what I've read a Brick could do the
job, but a Brick would be much hard to cartop on my VW Eurovan.
Also, I'm reckoning the Tortoise, like the Brick has a leeboard or
a daggerboard, and a rudder/tiller in the sailing version?
Thanks Gents.
Jack Mold