Re: Oldshoe builders out there?
Frajya,
I am not a keel expert for sure. I have read where people have tried
other methods when building Micro, but to my knowledge, none have
been entirely succesful. I would suggest that you will never regret
doing the keel to plan. It is only 200 lb, which is not a lot of
lead. there are several opinions on attaching the keel. Perhaps some
of the current Micro builders would assist you. Some people have
installed keelbolts in the pour. Many used screws rather than ring
nails to attach the sides and I think some people fill the free-
flooding areas. Seems to me the other area of contention is the
rudder attachment. Bilge keels will slow the boat down I would think
and affect the handling. A welded up steel shoe filled with lead shot
and epoxy might come close to getting you the same weight. I have
seen poured concrete bottoms on fishing boats on Lake Winnipeg but
they had massive bottoms.
Are there any foundaries in Tijuana?;-)) Nels
I am not a keel expert for sure. I have read where people have tried
other methods when building Micro, but to my knowledge, none have
been entirely succesful. I would suggest that you will never regret
doing the keel to plan. It is only 200 lb, which is not a lot of
lead. there are several opinions on attaching the keel. Perhaps some
of the current Micro builders would assist you. Some people have
installed keelbolts in the pour. Many used screws rather than ring
nails to attach the sides and I think some people fill the free-
flooding areas. Seems to me the other area of contention is the
rudder attachment. Bilge keels will slow the boat down I would think
and affect the handling. A welded up steel shoe filled with lead shot
and epoxy might come close to getting you the same weight. I have
seen poured concrete bottoms on fishing boats on Lake Winnipeg but
they had massive bottoms.
Are there any foundaries in Tijuana?;-)) Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "frayjaw" <frayjaw@y...> wrote:
> Nels,
> The gaff rig idea sounds realy interesting - I assumed I would go
> with the rig in the plans, but haven't made that decision yet. As
far
> as the ballast issue, I have seen a few sharpie designs that use
high
> psi concrete poured in the hull below the water line as ballast
Nels,
The gaff rig idea sounds realy interesting - I assumed I would go
with the rig in the plans, but haven't made that decision yet. As far
as the ballast issue, I have seen a few sharpie designs that use high
psi concrete poured in the hull below the water line as ballast (much
like water ballast tanks), but I like the leverage advantage of
weight lower than the hull. I have tinkered with a few bulb keel
ideas and maybe even twin bilge keels with enough volume to make up
for the lack of density of concrete v/s lead, but maybe I'm just
overthinking it all and should build the keel as designed. Do you
know of any Micros or the like that have had successful keel
modifications to materials like concrete? PS- I'll post my photos as
soon as I get a chance.
-- In bolger@y..., "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
The gaff rig idea sounds realy interesting - I assumed I would go
with the rig in the plans, but haven't made that decision yet. As far
as the ballast issue, I have seen a few sharpie designs that use high
psi concrete poured in the hull below the water line as ballast (much
like water ballast tanks), but I like the leverage advantage of
weight lower than the hull. I have tinkered with a few bulb keel
ideas and maybe even twin bilge keels with enough volume to make up
for the lack of density of concrete v/s lead, but maybe I'm just
overthinking it all and should build the keel as designed. Do you
know of any Micros or the like that have had successful keel
modifications to materials like concrete? PS- I'll post my photos as
soon as I get a chance.
-- In bolger@y..., "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
> Frayja,neglected
>
> Any construction photos? We have none on file for this much
> design. Do you have the sails yet? I was wondering about aNavigator
> version with the Chinese gaff rig. To me that would be one powerful
> 12 footer! Nels
>
> --- In bolger@y..., "frayjaw" <frayjaw@y...> wrote:
> > I am about 2/3 of the way through completing my Oldshoe and
> wondered
> > if anyone out there has any tips for me on the keel and possible
> > substitutions for the 200lb of lead ballast. I live in San Diego,
> and
> > California seems to be a lead-phobic state, for good reason I
> suppose.
> > Thanks for any input - Frayja Wolocott
If you're going to go exotic, there's always tungsten. I don't recall
hearing that it is toxic. But I bet with some scrounging lead will be
available in California. Just don't let them catch you melting and
pouring it if they're really that toxophobic.
hearing that it is toxic. But I bet with some scrounging lead will be
available in California. Just don't let them catch you melting and
pouring it if they're really that toxophobic.
--- In bolger@y..., "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> You can buy 25 pound lead ingots at commercial plumbing supply
> businesses. Most scrap metal dealers have it too, at half the price.
> A days scrounging at big tire retailers will usually yied up a few
> hundred pounds of used tire weights.
>
> An excellent substitute is depleated uranium (but perhaps a tad too
> unfriendly in CA) or gold, which I'm sure is quite popular there. It
> would certainly add to the boat's value.
>
> Most anything else is not dense enough, ie enough mass per cubic
foot.
>
> Bruce Hector
> Having said that,I fear that anyone willing to go through theeffort
> of modifying an OLDSHOE into the Navigator version will soon growMICRO
> tired of the limited volume and perhaps wish they had built the
> version just to gain more room,more storage,more ability to handlea
> wider range of conditions in relatively greater comfort and allthis
> for not much more in bucks or time :-)I agree with your opinion but I was considering the fact that the
> Just my .02 worth,
> Peter Lenihan
Oldshoe was already 2/3 completed. And yes, I was considering having
to manhandle it off a trailer because of having heard that some
people have dificulty launching their micros - because of the keel
height I assume. I also assume that because Olshoe is half the weight
it would be less costly to build.
The extra floatation, perhaps under the decking would assist in the
boat recovering if knocked down. Floatation up high works as well as
lead down low to help right a boat according to PCB&Fs It would have
a higher cg I would guess and more sail area...Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
Why not? If done with care it should work out fine provided
proportions are respected.
The major challenge would be to keep the above deck weight as
like its big sister MICRO.I'm not too sure why you would have"to add
more floatation" then is already there under the seats.Wood does
still float on its own....
The launch ramp incline and trailer are going to be the biggest
determinents regarding ease of launching.Weight is only a big concern
if you actually plan to manhandle the boat off the trailer.
Having said that,I fear that anyone willing to go through the effort
of modifying an OLDSHOE into the Navigator version will soon grow
tired of the limited volume and perhaps wish they had built the MICRO
version just to gain more room,more storage,more ability to handle a
wider range of conditions in relatively greater comfort and all this
for not much more in bucks or time :-)
Just my .02 worth,
Peter Lenihan
> I wonder if a person could order the Micro mod and scale down fromit?
Why not? If done with care it should work out fine provided
proportions are respected.
The major challenge would be to keep the above deck weight as
> light as possible and add more flotation. I think it would be muchYou would have to watch the weight since the OLDSHOE has no cabin
> easier to launch from a trailer than the navigator because it would
> be half the weight. Nels
like its big sister MICRO.I'm not too sure why you would have"to add
more floatation" then is already there under the seats.Wood does
still float on its own....
The launch ramp incline and trailer are going to be the biggest
determinents regarding ease of launching.Weight is only a big concern
if you actually plan to manhandle the boat off the trailer.
Having said that,I fear that anyone willing to go through the effort
of modifying an OLDSHOE into the Navigator version will soon grow
tired of the limited volume and perhaps wish they had built the MICRO
version just to gain more room,more storage,more ability to handle a
wider range of conditions in relatively greater comfort and all this
for not much more in bucks or time :-)
Just my .02 worth,
Peter Lenihan
--- In bolger@y..., fredmax56@a... wrote:
If I was to send
> him $500 he would work up the design. I just have not had the time
to do so.
> Steve
I wonder if a person could order the Micro mod and scale down from it?
Would be simple to make the mast from a pipe and have it pivot down
as well, make the sail from tyvek, and construct a walk-through
doghouse so it would bolt onto the gunnels, deck over the dry storage
area... The major challenge would be to keep the above deck weight as
light as possible and add more flotation. I think it would be much
easier to launch from a trailer than the navigator because it would
be half the weight. Nels
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a message dated 10/19/02 14:03:11 Eastern Daylight Time,
arvent@...writes:
I wrote to Mr. Bolger last spring and asked him that very question. His reply
was it was do able but that he was very busy at the time. If I was to send
him $500 he would work up the design. I just have not had the time to do so.
Steve
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
arvent@...writes:
I wrote to Mr. Bolger last spring and asked him that very question. His reply
was it was do able but that he was very busy at the time. If I was to send
him $500 he would work up the design. I just have not had the time to do so.
Steve
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Frayja,
Any construction photos? We have none on file for this much neglected
design. Do you have the sails yet? I was wondering about a Navigator
version with the Chinese gaff rig. To me that would be one powerful
12 footer! Nels
Any construction photos? We have none on file for this much neglected
design. Do you have the sails yet? I was wondering about a Navigator
version with the Chinese gaff rig. To me that would be one powerful
12 footer! Nels
--- In bolger@y..., "frayjaw" <frayjaw@y...> wrote:
> I am about 2/3 of the way through completing my Oldshoe and
wondered
> if anyone out there has any tips for me on the keel and possible
> substitutions for the 200lb of lead ballast. I live in San Diego,
and
> California seems to be a lead-phobic state, for good reason I
suppose.
> Thanks for any input - Frayja Wolocott
> if anyone out there has any tips for me on the keel and possibleWould a steel plate keel ala Storm Petrel work as a substitute for the
> substitutions for the 200lb of lead ballast.
entire Oldshoe keel?
It may be too late for you to add the keelson to bolt it to.
Justin Meddock
You can buy 25 pound lead ingots at commercial plumbing supply
businesses. Most scrap metal dealers have it too, at half the price.
A days scrounging at big tire retailers will usually yied up a few
hundred pounds of used tire weights.
An excellent substitute is depleated uranium (but perhaps a tad too
unfriendly in CA) or gold, which I'm sure is quite popular there. It
would certainly add to the boat's value.
Most anything else is not dense enough, ie enough mass per cubic foot.
Bruce Hector
businesses. Most scrap metal dealers have it too, at half the price.
A days scrounging at big tire retailers will usually yied up a few
hundred pounds of used tire weights.
An excellent substitute is depleated uranium (but perhaps a tad too
unfriendly in CA) or gold, which I'm sure is quite popular there. It
would certainly add to the boat's value.
Most anything else is not dense enough, ie enough mass per cubic foot.
Bruce Hector
I am about 2/3 of the way through completing my Oldshoe and wondered
if anyone out there has any tips for me on the keel and possible
substitutions for the 200lb of lead ballast. I live in San Diego, and
California seems to be a lead-phobic state, for good reason I suppose.
Thanks for any input - Frayja Wolocott
if anyone out there has any tips for me on the keel and possible
substitutions for the 200lb of lead ballast. I live in San Diego, and
California seems to be a lead-phobic state, for good reason I suppose.
Thanks for any input - Frayja Wolocott