Re: [bolger] Re: The Ship
Could you tell us about her handling and sailing abilities?
Stuart
on 2/11/02 9:28 AM, Tom Etherington attetherin@...wrote:
Stuart
on 2/11/02 9:28 AM, Tom Etherington attetherin@...wrote:
> I sailed Endeavour when she sailed from Philadelphia to New York.
> Yes it is a kick to climb the rigging, especially when you find out
> about the futtock shrouds. They are the shrouds that go from the
> fighting platform to the other shrouds. They are farther out from
> the center of the boat at the top than at the bottom and as you climb
> them you are essentially on the underside of the shrouds, hanging
> on. Let go and you drop straight down.
>
> The books in the great cabin are fakes. They are only wooden models
> of what were originally on the ship.
>
> Her flat bottom was why they chose her. The thought was she could be
> hauled out on a beach for repair. In fact, she had to be hauled out
> and repaired after they hit the Great Barrier Reef, so it was a good
> thing she had the flat bottom.
>
> She won't be back to the US. Some cockamamie Coast Guard bureaucrat
> in California found a law that says foreign ships can't carry paying
> passengers between ports in the US. She pays for her trips by doing
> just that. Write your congressman.
>
> All in all, sailing her was a dream come true.
>
> Tom Etherington
I sailed Endeavour when she sailed from Philadelphia to New York.
Yes it is a kick to climb the rigging, especially when you find out
about the futtock shrouds. They are the shrouds that go from the
fighting platform to the other shrouds. They are farther out from
the center of the boat at the top than at the bottom and as you climb
them you are essentially on the underside of the shrouds, hanging
on. Let go and you drop straight down.
The books in the great cabin are fakes. They are only wooden models
of what were originally on the ship.
Her flat bottom was why they chose her. The thought was she could be
hauled out on a beach for repair. In fact, she had to be hauled out
and repaired after they hit the Great Barrier Reef, so it was a good
thing she had the flat bottom.
She won't be back to the US. Some cockamamie Coast Guard bureaucrat
in California found a law that says foreign ships can't carry paying
passengers between ports in the US. She pays for her trips by doing
just that. Write your congressman.
All in all, sailing her was a dream come true.
Tom Etherington
Yes it is a kick to climb the rigging, especially when you find out
about the futtock shrouds. They are the shrouds that go from the
fighting platform to the other shrouds. They are farther out from
the center of the boat at the top than at the bottom and as you climb
them you are essentially on the underside of the shrouds, hanging
on. Let go and you drop straight down.
The books in the great cabin are fakes. They are only wooden models
of what were originally on the ship.
Her flat bottom was why they chose her. The thought was she could be
hauled out on a beach for repair. In fact, she had to be hauled out
and repaired after they hit the Great Barrier Reef, so it was a good
thing she had the flat bottom.
She won't be back to the US. Some cockamamie Coast Guard bureaucrat
in California found a law that says foreign ships can't carry paying
passengers between ports in the US. She pays for her trips by doing
just that. Write your congressman.
All in all, sailing her was a dream come true.
Tom Etherington
Yes, it was. IIRC, the Bosun and carpenter had their quarters and lockers
forward of that.
forward of that.
On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:20:35 +1300, Stuart wrote:
> I stand corrected, I do recall the crews area having more headroom now that
> you mention it. Wasn't the galley at the forward end of the crews area?
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Many a man has fallen in love with a girl in light so dim
he would not have chosen a suit by it. <Maurice Chevalier>
In a message dated 10/25/02 1:31:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
jhkohnen@...writes:
and contemporary mythology notwithstanding. It is generally agreed that Cook
went to great pains to procure fresh foods at every opportunity and took just
as great pains to see that his crew ate them. (This is why the sauerkraut
tale is such an iconic annectdote.)
I read a highly entertaining and, I think, authoritative piece on the subject
some time ago. (Sorry, can't recall the author's name.) The author related
that sauerkraut is not an effective anti-scorbotic. He calculated the amount
that a person would need to consume daily to get a RDA dose of Vitamin C.
I've forgotten the amount, but it was manifestly impossible for a human to
consume enough sauerkraut, even if consuming the stuff all waking hours, to
get the necessary dosage.
Scruvy remained a scourge on long-distance voyages long after Cook's day. The
fabled lime juice of the British Royal Navy was likewise ineffective. The
anti-scorbotic properties of fresh lemon juice having been demonstrated in
remarkably modern type clinical trial which resulted in the deaths of some of
the subjects - a commentary on medical ethics and the low value placed on
sailor's lives in the period - the Navy adopted lime juice, a much poorer
source of vitamin C than lemon juice, following effective lobbying by
colonial planters who, for some reason, grew limes instead of lemons. The
Navy then adopted an entrepeneur's method of concentrating the lime juice for
preservation by boiling it into a concentrate. The heat of boiling destroyed
almost all of the vitamin C.
The author concluded that most of decline in the incidence of scurvy prior to
the 20th century was the result of faster passages, with some assistance from
improving working class diets on land. Sailors were less likely to be in a
pre-scorbotic condition when they joined their ships and spent comparatively
less time eating preserved rations. Scurvy continued to be a problem on
voyages of long duration - e.g. arctic expeditions - however.
The same author had an entertaining piece on the nutritional importance of
alcohol in the days of sail. By his calculations, typical rations provided an
indequate amount of calories to support demanding physical labor, especially
in cold latitudes and taking into account the poor clothing that seamen wore.
Alcohol, a concentrated source of non-perishable calories, was needed to make
up the dietary deficiency!
All in all, for the age of sail, the lot of the crew was such that Dr.
Johnson's (was it Johnson?) famous observation that no one would go to sea
who could contrive to go to jail is only slightly far-fetched. (Jails of the
period were notoriously unsanitary and unhealthful, too.) (The added jibe a
better quality of companions was to be found in goal than at sea was, I'm
sure, an unwarranted, not to mention an ungrateful, slander against seamen by
a landsman whose security and prosperity was in large measure due to the
labors of those unfortunates.)
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jhkohnen@...writes:
> Cook also fed them lots of sauerkraut. He didn't have the problems withNo he didn't, but the sauerkraut had nothing to do with it, his conviction
> scurvy that explorers just a few years earlier had.
>
and contemporary mythology notwithstanding. It is generally agreed that Cook
went to great pains to procure fresh foods at every opportunity and took just
as great pains to see that his crew ate them. (This is why the sauerkraut
tale is such an iconic annectdote.)
I read a highly entertaining and, I think, authoritative piece on the subject
some time ago. (Sorry, can't recall the author's name.) The author related
that sauerkraut is not an effective anti-scorbotic. He calculated the amount
that a person would need to consume daily to get a RDA dose of Vitamin C.
I've forgotten the amount, but it was manifestly impossible for a human to
consume enough sauerkraut, even if consuming the stuff all waking hours, to
get the necessary dosage.
Scruvy remained a scourge on long-distance voyages long after Cook's day. The
fabled lime juice of the British Royal Navy was likewise ineffective. The
anti-scorbotic properties of fresh lemon juice having been demonstrated in
remarkably modern type clinical trial which resulted in the deaths of some of
the subjects - a commentary on medical ethics and the low value placed on
sailor's lives in the period - the Navy adopted lime juice, a much poorer
source of vitamin C than lemon juice, following effective lobbying by
colonial planters who, for some reason, grew limes instead of lemons. The
Navy then adopted an entrepeneur's method of concentrating the lime juice for
preservation by boiling it into a concentrate. The heat of boiling destroyed
almost all of the vitamin C.
The author concluded that most of decline in the incidence of scurvy prior to
the 20th century was the result of faster passages, with some assistance from
improving working class diets on land. Sailors were less likely to be in a
pre-scorbotic condition when they joined their ships and spent comparatively
less time eating preserved rations. Scurvy continued to be a problem on
voyages of long duration - e.g. arctic expeditions - however.
The same author had an entertaining piece on the nutritional importance of
alcohol in the days of sail. By his calculations, typical rations provided an
indequate amount of calories to support demanding physical labor, especially
in cold latitudes and taking into account the poor clothing that seamen wore.
Alcohol, a concentrated source of non-perishable calories, was needed to make
up the dietary deficiency!
All in all, for the age of sail, the lot of the crew was such that Dr.
Johnson's (was it Johnson?) famous observation that no one would go to sea
who could contrive to go to jail is only slightly far-fetched. (Jails of the
period were notoriously unsanitary and unhealthful, too.) (The added jibe a
better quality of companions was to be found in goal than at sea was, I'm
sure, an unwarranted, not to mention an ungrateful, slander against seamen by
a landsman whose security and prosperity was in large measure due to the
labors of those unfortunates.)
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I stand corrected, I do recall the crews area having more headroom now that
you mention it. Wasn't the galley at the forward end of the crews area?
Stuart
on 25/10/02 7:00 PM,jhkohnen@...atjhkohnen@...
wrote:
you mention it. Wasn't the galley at the forward end of the crews area?
Stuart
on 25/10/02 7:00 PM,jhkohnen@...atjhkohnen@...
wrote:
> I visited the Aussie Endeavour when it stopped at Coos Bay. The crew's part
> of the 'tween decks actually had full headroom. When I commented on this,
> the tour guide said that when the ship was being converted from a collier
> Cook specified that the deck be installed low enough to give the men some
> room. Further aft the deck of the aft cabin protrudes into the 'tween decks,
> dropping the headroom under the beams to about 3' (that makes about 4'
> between them), that's where the marines berthed, between the crew and the
> officers. As you go aft, the deck of the aft cabin rises, and when you get
> into officer country there may be 4' under the beams. The little cabins with
> their short doors are kind of cute, if you like doll houses. <g>
>
> Cook also fed them lots of sauerkraut. He didn't have the problems with
> scurvy that explorers just a few years earlier had.
I visited the Aussie Endeavour when it stopped at Coos Bay. The crew's part
of the 'tween decks actually had full headroom. When I commented on this,
the tour guide said that when the ship was being converted from a collier
Cook specified that the deck be installed low enough to give the men some
room. Further aft the deck of the aft cabin protrudes into the 'tween decks,
dropping the headroom under the beams to about 3' (that makes about 4'
between them), that's where the marines berthed, between the crew and the
officers. As you go aft, the deck of the aft cabin rises, and when you get
into officer country there may be 4' under the beams. The little cabins with
their short doors are kind of cute, if you like doll houses. <g>
Cook also fed them lots of sauerkraut. He didn't have the problems with
scurvy that explorers just a few years earlier had.
of the 'tween decks actually had full headroom. When I commented on this,
the tour guide said that when the ship was being converted from a collier
Cook specified that the deck be installed low enough to give the men some
room. Further aft the deck of the aft cabin protrudes into the 'tween decks,
dropping the headroom under the beams to about 3' (that makes about 4'
between them), that's where the marines berthed, between the crew and the
officers. As you go aft, the deck of the aft cabin rises, and when you get
into officer country there may be 4' under the beams. The little cabins with
their short doors are kind of cute, if you like doll houses. <g>
Cook also fed them lots of sauerkraut. He didn't have the problems with
scurvy that explorers just a few years earlier had.
On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:25:10 +1300, Stuart wrote:
> ...
> Did the program show that when the crew weren't on watch, that they were
> confined in a cabin with about four foot headroom and were given a ration
of
> one gallon of beer per day?
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Missionaries, my Dear! Don't you realize that missionaries are the
divinely
provided food for destitute cannibals? Whenever they are on the brink of
starvation, Heaven in its infinite mercy send them a nice plump
missionary.
<Oscar Wilde>
On Thursday 24 October 2002 20:14, pauldayau wrote:
live. I was working in Sydney when it was launched.
I believe that originally it was going to be a land-based museum.
I am glad that they decided to launch it, even if it does spend
most of its time on the other side of the world.
--
Bruce Fountain (fountainb@...)
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch and Signal Pty Ltd
Perth Western Australia
tel: +618 9256 0083
> It is pretty typical of life that the Endeavour Replica was builtYeah, I have never seen it and it was built 5km from where I
> 600kms from here then cleared off to sail the world the day before i
> got totown.
> Now eveerybody has seen the ship except the locals.
live. I was working in Sydney when it was launched.
I believe that originally it was going to be a land-based museum.
I am glad that they decided to launch it, even if it does spend
most of its time on the other side of the world.
--
Bruce Fountain (fountainb@...)
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch and Signal Pty Ltd
Perth Western Australia
tel: +618 9256 0083
--- In bolger@y..., Stuart Crawford <scrawford@p...> wrote:
600kms from here then cleared off to sail the world the day before i
got totown.
Now eveerybody has seen the ship except the locals.
Mind you I ve got a little offcut from the wood pile left over that
I put int my own boat.
paul
> If it's the Australian replica of Endeavor, I had a look around itwhen it
> was in Nelson NZ a couple of years ago. Apart from using differentwoods,
> having an engine and using lead for ballast, it is a very realisticreplica.
> They even have some things like books, that came off the originalEndeavor.
>who do
> They about twenty permanent crew, with the rest being volunteers
> stints.before
>
> The Endeavor was designed and used as a coal barge in the North Sea
> being handed over to Captain Cook, hence the shape.were
>
> Did the program show that when the crew weren't on watch, that they
> confined in a cabin with about four foot headroom and were given aration of
> one gallon of beer per day?It is pretty typical of life that the Endeavour Replica was built
>
> Stuart
>
> on
600kms from here then cleared off to sail the world the day before i
got totown.
Now eveerybody has seen the ship except the locals.
Mind you I ve got a little offcut from the wood pile left over that
I put int my own boat.
paul
The Endeavor could only sail in a range of about 160 degrees, in other words
it couldn't even sail straight across the wind. It had to be at least partly
down wind or not at all.
Stuart
on 24/10/02 3:05 AM, Richard Spelling atrichard@...wrote:
it couldn't even sail straight across the wind. It had to be at least partly
down wind or not at all.
Stuart
on 24/10/02 3:05 AM, Richard Spelling atrichard@...wrote:
> I agree, quite an interesting show.
>
> Don't guess they did to much windward work with that shallow keel and square
> rig.
>
> According to the show, it had an "emergency" engine and two 4ft props. The
> last shot in the show was the crew on the rigging, no sails up, and the ship
> plowing through the ocean.
>
> I like the "realtively shallow draft" the boat had, 11 feet!
>
If it's the Australian replica of Endeavor, I had a look around it when it
was in Nelson NZ a couple of years ago. Apart from using different woods,
having an engine and using lead for ballast, it is a very realistic replica.
They even have some things like books, that came off the original Endeavor.
They about twenty permanent crew, with the rest being volunteers who do
stints.
The Endeavor was designed and used as a coal barge in the North Sea before
being handed over to Captain Cook, hence the shape.
Did the program show that when the crew weren't on watch, that they were
confined in a cabin with about four foot headroom and were given a ration of
one gallon of beer per day?
Stuart
on 24/10/02 12:20 AM,teakdeck@...atteakdeck@...wrote:
was in Nelson NZ a couple of years ago. Apart from using different woods,
having an engine and using lead for ballast, it is a very realistic replica.
They even have some things like books, that came off the original Endeavor.
They about twenty permanent crew, with the rest being volunteers who do
stints.
The Endeavor was designed and used as a coal barge in the North Sea before
being handed over to Captain Cook, hence the shape.
Did the program show that when the crew weren't on watch, that they were
confined in a cabin with about four foot headroom and were given a ration of
one gallon of beer per day?
Stuart
on 24/10/02 12:20 AM,teakdeck@...atteakdeck@...wrote:
> Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called "The Ship." A
> replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much of the
> world previously unknown to Europeans.
>
> The ship was fantastic and the crew of people were very interesting as they
> emulated conditions as they were on the original voyage. They were at sea on
> September 11 of last year so they only heard of the terrible world events by
> announcement of the captain.
>
> I was amazed as the amateur crew climbed aloft to work the canvas. I was glad
> to see once they were up there they tied off.
>
> The ship seemed to really move with some speed in a decent breeze. It
> appeared from the show they never hit a gale or even a storm. They did have
> six miserable days of doldrums.
>
> There were some underwater shots of the boat and I was surprised at the
> formation of the keel, or really the lack of one. More like a keelson if
> that's the right term. The ballast must just sit in the bilge.
>
> Anyone else see the show? Comments on how that ship was designed and how well
> it sails? Do you think it had an engine? I didn't see any prop.
>
> Really makes one aspire to build a big wooden boat and sail the open seas!
>
> Mike Masten
I saw the first half or so of the documentary. I also took a tour of
the modern Endeavor in the port of Sacramento a couple of years back.
I remember the tween deck, which I didn't see in the film. It was
about 3' high. My four year old could walk upright, the rest of us
had to crawl around. Several of the ships officers and warrent
officers had their quaters/workstations there, behind 3' high doors.
Somewhere I have some photos.
In the film I was impressed that they exclusively used (so they
claimed) contemporary charts and navigation methods, including lunar
sights, etc.
As a kid I used to climb towers for a living--I loved it. It could
get interesting in a breeze, especially before the guy wires were all
in place and set up--and that was on dry land.... It has to be a real
kick in the pants going up those masts and hanging off yardarms, at
sea, with flogging topsails banging into your head!
John O'Neill
the modern Endeavor in the port of Sacramento a couple of years back.
I remember the tween deck, which I didn't see in the film. It was
about 3' high. My four year old could walk upright, the rest of us
had to crawl around. Several of the ships officers and warrent
officers had their quaters/workstations there, behind 3' high doors.
Somewhere I have some photos.
In the film I was impressed that they exclusively used (so they
claimed) contemporary charts and navigation methods, including lunar
sights, etc.
As a kid I used to climb towers for a living--I loved it. It could
get interesting in a breeze, especially before the guy wires were all
in place and set up--and that was on dry land.... It has to be a real
kick in the pants going up those masts and hanging off yardarms, at
sea, with flogging topsails banging into your head!
John O'Neill
--- In bolger@y..., teakdeck@a... wrote:
> Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called "The
Ship." A
> replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much
of the
> world previously unknown to Europeans.
>
More at
http://www.barkendeavour.com.au/
teakdeck@...wrote:
http://www.barkendeavour.com.au/
teakdeck@...wrote:
>
> Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called "The Ship." A
> replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much of the
> world previously unknown to Europeans.
I agree, quite an interesting show.
Don't guess they did to much windward work with that shallow keel and square
rig.
According to the show, it had an "emergency" engine and two 4ft props. The
last shot in the show was the crew on the rigging, no sails up, and the ship
plowing through the ocean.
I like the "realtively shallow draft" the boat had, 11 feet!
Don't guess they did to much windward work with that shallow keel and square
rig.
According to the show, it had an "emergency" engine and two 4ft props. The
last shot in the show was the crew on the rigging, no sails up, and the ship
plowing through the ocean.
I like the "realtively shallow draft" the boat had, 11 feet!
----- Original Message -----
From: <teakdeck@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:20 AM
Subject: [bolger] The Ship
>
> Anyone else see the show? Comments on how that ship was designed and how
well
> it sails? Do you think it had an engine? I didn't see any prop.
>
> Really makes one aspire to build a big wooden boat and sail the open seas!
>
> Mike Masten
>
Recently watched on the History Channel a documentary called "The Ship." A
replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much of the
world previously unknown to Europeans.
The ship was fantastic and the crew of people were very interesting as they
emulated conditions as they were on the original voyage. They were at sea on
September 11 of last year so they only heard of the terrible world events by
announcement of the captain.
I was amazed as the amateur crew climbed aloft to work the canvas. I was glad
to see once they were up there they tied off.
The ship seemed to really move with some speed in a decent breeze. It
appeared from the show they never hit a gale or even a storm. They did have
six miserable days of doldrums.
There were some underwater shots of the boat and I was surprised at the
formation of the keel, or really the lack of one. More like a keelson if
that's the right term. The ballast must just sit in the bilge.
Anyone else see the show? Comments on how that ship was designed and how well
it sails? Do you think it had an engine? I didn't see any prop.
Really makes one aspire to build a big wooden boat and sail the open seas!
Mike Masten
replica of the boat Captain Cook sailed around in discovering much of the
world previously unknown to Europeans.
The ship was fantastic and the crew of people were very interesting as they
emulated conditions as they were on the original voyage. They were at sea on
September 11 of last year so they only heard of the terrible world events by
announcement of the captain.
I was amazed as the amateur crew climbed aloft to work the canvas. I was glad
to see once they were up there they tied off.
The ship seemed to really move with some speed in a decent breeze. It
appeared from the show they never hit a gale or even a storm. They did have
six miserable days of doldrums.
There were some underwater shots of the boat and I was surprised at the
formation of the keel, or really the lack of one. More like a keelson if
that's the right term. The ballast must just sit in the bilge.
Anyone else see the show? Comments on how that ship was designed and how well
it sails? Do you think it had an engine? I didn't see any prop.
Really makes one aspire to build a big wooden boat and sail the open seas!
Mike Masten