Re: [bolger] Wyo on the cheap?

> What is it about working with the Meranti that makes it worth
> $20/sheet more than ACX? Inquiring minds want to know!
>

The ACX around here is going for $20.00 a sheet for 1/2". So I paid $26.00
per sheet more for the Meranti delivered to my garage more than ACX,

The MDO around here is $39.00 plus delivery, or about $7.00 per sheet less
than Meranti. I have no experience with MDO either but it's said to be good
stuff.

My past experience with Fir or Pine ACX is that it can wick up a lot of
epoxy when you coat it but the Meranti does not because the grain is heavier
and the top ply is thinner. With a water proof glue behind it, epoxy usage
is way down.

The Meranti I have is a 7 ply versus 4 ply on the 1/2 ACX I have on hand.
No voids means longer life in the Marine environment and 7 plys are
noticeably stronger.

When driving screws or nails in ACX and you hit a void, it'll collapse
making fastening nowhere near as secure as the Meranti.

No need to glass the topsides when using Meranti. The checking should not
happen and if so, very minor. I've had a piece coated with epoxy laying in
the sun, under my lawn sprinklers for 6 months in hot and cold weather with
no effects. Not even on the bare wood side laying in the dirt.

The weight is about the same at an average of 48 lbs per sheet. It cuts
like a dream with very little if any splintering except immediately at the
cut.

Meranti has a very smooth and consistent surface, a "ton" less labor in
finishing. When you add the extra epoxy and fiberglass the ACX needs, I
would doubt is more than $10.00 maybe $15.00 per sheet different so on the
Wyo it's about $1200.00 more expensive. When you add the fact you probably
get a stronger and longer lasting boat with about 1/2 the finishing labor
it's worth it to me anyway.

If ACX over Meranti holds you back from building a boat, go ACX for sure.
It's better to enjoy the boat than not have it at all.

Jeff

>> What is it about working with the Meranti that makes it worth
>> $20/sheet more than ACX? Inquiring minds want to know!
>Really why the extra expense? I just dont see it. A sheet of
>comparable 1/2 inch locally is $8.66 and online the cheapest marine
>ply I find is $45.00 and yes I can go with a little thinner ply say
>3/8 because of greater strength with marine ply and save a little
>maybe as low as $36 per sheet. My father built a Console Skiff (Glen-
>L) and all non fiberglassed (West Systems epoxy three coats) wood
>checked - and he used all marine ply!

I think Miranti is lighter. I'd also bet it cut cleaner. I'm quite
sure the surface is smoother and requires less preparation for
glassing or painting. Shame about your father's skiff. If he had put
a little glass in those coats of epoxy I'm sure he would have gotten
a durable finish.

Never minding the labor, I've yet to calculate the cost of a sheet of
1/2 ACX, filled, glassed and painted vs. a sheet of Meranti primed
and painted. I do know this: over three seasons filled, glassed and
painted beats out just painted on materials cost alone.

YIBB,

David

--

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296

If you're going to paint or epoxy it, use MDO (Medium Density Overlay)
plywood.

Paul

> >I would still use the better plywood because once I have worked

with good

> >stuff, it would be hard to use ACX again, I just think it's worth

the extra

> >cost. Except the middle layer in the hull lay up, just protect it

well at

> >the edges.
>
> What is it about working with the Meranti that makes it worth
> $20/sheet more than ACX? Inquiring minds want to know!

Really why the extra expense? I just dont see it. A sheet of
comparable 1/2 inch locally is $8.66 and online the cheapest marine
ply I find is $45.00 and yes I can go with a little thinner ply say
3/8 because of greater strength with marine ply and save a little
maybe as low as $36 per sheet. My father built a Console Skiff (Glen-
L) and all non fiberglassed (West Systems epoxy three coats) wood
checked - and he used all marine ply!

Here is a good FAQ but still no one has ever been able to explain
what is so superior. I already know the spec no voids, fills, etc.
But slice open a sheet and look for voids I have done this and have
never found anything greater than about a silver dollar in size.

http://www.boat-links.com/plyfaq.html

A little help please? Either in knowledge or cash so I can brag
about my boats being built with the "Right" stuff.
Ian

>I would still use the better plywood because once I have worked with good
>stuff, it would be hard to use ACX again, I just think it's worth the extra
>cost. Except the middle layer in the hull lay up, just protect it well at
>the edges.

What is it about working with the Meranti that makes it worth
$20/sheet more than ACX? Inquiring minds want to know!

>I do think a Wyo could be built with a bit of a scrounging for under $7,000
>plus ground tackle, motor, and electronics. No frills but she'd make an
>excellent weekender or say a 2-week vacation boat. With 150 hp, she'd also
>get you there and back fast.

Electronics? What electronics?

>I have budgeted just under $20,000, but then it'll be my home with many of
>the frills required by my wife and myself.

If Bright Thread is selling for $75K and that Champlain for $79K,
$20K for the privilege of building a Wyo seems like a steal! I can't
wait to see your boat in person (from onboard my I60 of course!)

YIBB,

David
--

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296

I have a website set up. I enjoy boatbuilding sites with lot's of
photos. I did the same for my Wyo site and didn't want to clutter
up the Bolger site with Megabytes of photos.

www.dreamwater.net/cosailor

Jeff

--- In bolger@y..., "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
> Where are Jeff's Wyoming pictures? In the files section (didn't
see
> them there on a cursory visit) or on a separate web site?
>
> All best,
> Garth

I appreciate the kind words.

This is actually a subject that I have agonized over many times. It was
mentioned once that you could assemble a Wyo cheaply, enjoy it for 4-5 years
and give it Viking burial or sell her off completely stripped for little of
nothing.

If I wasn't going to live aboard and she could dry out over a winter, I
think I would do just that! And she'd last more than just 4 or 5 years too.

I would still use the better plywood because once I have worked with good
stuff, it would be hard to use ACX again, I just think it's worth the extra
cost. Except the middle layer in the hull lay up, just protect it well at
the edges.

1. Build the Wyo per plans
2. Don't get carried away with the epoxy and cloth issues and use more
traditional preservatives and salt
3. Are willing to accept a work boat finish
4. Use Home Depot style cabinets and table/chairs.
5. Cable steering
6. Laminate with Roofing Tar like Buehler recommends. I think this is the
best way possible other than epoxy and good enough by a large margin for the
Wyo.
7. Water in carry on containers.
8. Use the "Don't Look Down" head
9. Coleman camp stove.
10. Stainless Steel bowls dropped in to a cutout for sinks. (Again per
Bolger plans)
11. No wired lights other than running lights. Use battery powered
lanterns or candles. (Per plans)

Etc., etc, etc.

I do think a Wyo could be built with a bit of a scrounging for under $7,000
plus ground tackle, motor, and electronics. No frills but she'd make an
excellent weekender or say a 2-week vacation boat. With 150 hp, she'd also
get you there and back fast.

I have budgeted just under $20,000, but then it'll be my home with many of
the frills required by my wife and myself.

Jeff

Where are Jeff's Wyoming pictures? In the files section (didn't see
them there on a cursory visit) or on a separate web site?

All best,
Garth

An open letter to Jeff --

I've been watching your progress on the Wyoming with considerable
glee! It really does seem like the boat is as easy to build as the
plans in BWOM suggest. Watching another piece come together more or
less every week is like seeing a time-lapse of the project -- no
hulking half hull, sitting month after month,rotting while no
discernable progress is made. You have my envy and admiration!

I've also appreciated your running costs log. Not only is she going
together more or less on schedule, but it looks like she's more or
less on budget. You're going to leave more than a few of us with no
excuse for not having the boat of our dreams.

I do have a question for you. I understand why you've drawn the line
where it is on quality of materials and finish, and I do not need any
explanation of why you've scrimped or splurged on this or that. What
I am curious about is this: Now that you've seen the way the beast
goes together, do you have a guess at what a rock-bottom budget might
be for this boat? Suppose someone just wanted to have a Wyo to make
Summer time camp trips in sheltered water, rather than as a
liveaboard with some coastal capability, and could live with the bare
minimum in exchange for spending the bare minimum. Is there anything
in your budget you could justify cutting? I know we on the list
speculate about this, but I'd like to hear an opinion from someone
who's walking the walk.

YIBB,

David
--

C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296