Re: RUDDER HANGS BELOW THE KEEL
Gaer,
Since you're contemplating a fairly significant alteration to the
rudder, why not replace your rudder with a kick-up? I recently
bought a high density polyethylene kick-up rudder for my Aquarius 23
from a place called "www.idasailor.com" and now I don't have to worry
about bending my old one on a submerged post or rock. It simply
knocks it up if I hit one. Fabricating one yourself is also
relatively easy.
Tom Pannell
Tulls Bay, NC
Since you're contemplating a fairly significant alteration to the
rudder, why not replace your rudder with a kick-up? I recently
bought a high density polyethylene kick-up rudder for my Aquarius 23
from a place called "www.idasailor.com" and now I don't have to worry
about bending my old one on a submerged post or rock. It simply
knocks it up if I hit one. Fabricating one yourself is also
relatively easy.
Tom Pannell
Tulls Bay, NC
> cut off part of the offending rudder bottom and reseal it before I
> tear it off on a grounding.
>
> Any ideas or suggestions about the resulting effects on steerage?
>
> I could add surface to the trailing edge, but am leery of adding to
> the leading edge. I am also leery of creating a "Barn Door" effect
> if I add too much to the trailing edge.
>
> Thanks for any responses.
>
> Gaer
The original problem can be fixed by using a dual reading depth
finder. One mode looks directly down and the other looks forward a
hundred or so yards. Less costly than redoing a rudder in most boat
yards.
I know of no one who builds Bolger designs for profit. Building a
Bolger Boat is therapy. A good therapist can charge upwards of one
hundred and fifty dollars per hour. A Good Bolger designs therapeutic
value is simply priceless.
Buying a used Bolger can and has been done but the loss of
therapeutic help can never be replaced. It has been said that an hour
of working on a Bolger boat adds three hours to your life. There can
be no way to validate that statement but we could ask Harold Payson.
John Cupp
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels <arvent@h...>" <arvent@h...>
wrote:
finder. One mode looks directly down and the other looks forward a
hundred or so yards. Less costly than redoing a rudder in most boat
yards.
I know of no one who builds Bolger designs for profit. Building a
Bolger Boat is therapy. A good therapist can charge upwards of one
hundred and fifty dollars per hour. A Good Bolger designs therapeutic
value is simply priceless.
Buying a used Bolger can and has been done but the loss of
therapeutic help can never be replaced. It has been said that an hour
of working on a Bolger boat adds three hours to your life. There can
be no way to validate that statement but we could ask Harold Payson.
John Cupp
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels <arvent@h...>" <arvent@h...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:he
> Bob would tell you the chief problem with it is it's a used glass
> boat, and he's having/wanting to do a lot of work to bring it up to
> LMII standards.
>
>
> What he might discover is that no matter how much time/work/money
> spends he will not be able to because there are design featuresthat
> are not possible to achieve on a different type of boat.
>
> If one can purchase a used boat for less than buiding a Bolger boat
> and a Bolger boat builder can never hope to recover his investment,
> then it seems obvious that the best deal of all is to buy a used
> Bolger boat!
>
> Nels
>If one can purchase a used boat for less than buiding a Bolger boatOne big, Big, BIG problem with a buying a used Bolger Boat -- someone
>and a Bolger boat builder can never hope to recover his investment,
>then it seems obvious that the best deal of all is to buy a used
>Bolger boat!
else gets the fun of building it!
YIBB!
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
Bob would tell you the chief problem with it is it's a used glass
boat, and he's having/wanting to do a lot of work to bring it up to
LMII standards.
What he might discover is that no matter how much time/work/money he
spends he will not be able to because there are design features that
are not possible to achieve on a different type of boat.
If one can purchase a used boat for less than buiding a Bolger boat
and a Bolger boat builder can never hope to recover his investment,
then it seems obvious that the best deal of all is to buy a used
Bolger boat!
Nels
>> Have the capacity that you found in the Irwin. And cost aAs Bob Wise contemplated a project to replace the Loose Moose II, he
>> lot less.
>
>Um, you think so? Only if you build it yourself and don't count the
>cost of your time. I know that Bolger boats are supposed to be cheap
>and all, but used fiberglass boats, especially from high volume
>builders like Irwin, are very cheap. A used Irwin probably does not
>cost much more than the cost of materials for a Bolger boat, even a
>ply sharpie, of similar capacity.
found that he could pick up a used fiberglass boat for less than the
cost of plywood for anything he might what to build (he uses the
"good stuff") He bought a used glass boat in the 35' range. Of course
Bob would tell you the chief problem with it is it's a used glass
boat, and he's having/wanting to do a lot of work to bring it up to
LMII standards.
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
> Have the capacity that you found in the Irwin. And cost aUm, you think so? Only if you build it yourself and don't count the
> lot less.
cost of your time. I know that Bolger boats are supposed to be cheap
and all, but used fiberglass boats, especially from high volume
builders like Irwin, are very cheap. A used Irwin probably does not
cost much more than the cost of materials for a Bolger boat, even a
ply sharpie, of similar capacity.
Peter
Another question is whether or not the rudder is attached to the after end of the (shortened) keel or
it is a spade rudder standing free of the keel at some distance aft of it.
If the rudder is attached and the rudder stock is vertical or nearly so the idea of putting a plate
on it conforms with PCBs thinking and a little shorter would probably be OK.
If it is separate and some distance aft (and vertical) a plate or wing on the bottom would, as you
say, work all right but the vulnerability of that structure to a rocky grounding whether or not it is
a little shorter probably wouldn't be greatly reduced.
In either case any significant rake to the rudder post kind of eliminates the plate or wing on the
rudder's foot simply because when put over to any degree the wing would be acting as a brake and tend
to slow the boat down.
Do the Irwin people themselves offer any solution to this problem? They might have some useful (and
probably expensive) suggestions.
This being a Bolger group I submit that the best solution to the problem might be to sell the new
Irwin and either build or have built one of Bolger's advanced sharpie series that float in thin
water, can and have crossed oceans, and yet have the capacity that you found in the Irwin. And cost a
lot less.
Jim
"pvanderwaart " wrote:
it is a spade rudder standing free of the keel at some distance aft of it.
If the rudder is attached and the rudder stock is vertical or nearly so the idea of putting a plate
on it conforms with PCBs thinking and a little shorter would probably be OK.
If it is separate and some distance aft (and vertical) a plate or wing on the bottom would, as you
say, work all right but the vulnerability of that structure to a rocky grounding whether or not it is
a little shorter probably wouldn't be greatly reduced.
In either case any significant rake to the rudder post kind of eliminates the plate or wing on the
rudder's foot simply because when put over to any degree the wing would be acting as a brake and tend
to slow the boat down.
Do the Irwin people themselves offer any solution to this problem? They might have some useful (and
probably expensive) suggestions.
This being a Bolger group I submit that the best solution to the problem might be to sell the new
Irwin and either build or have built one of Bolger's advanced sharpie series that float in thin
water, can and have crossed oceans, and yet have the capacity that you found in the Irwin. And cost a
lot less.
Jim
"pvanderwaart " wrote:
> > Any ideas or suggestions about the resulting effects on steerage?
>
> If the rudderstock is fairly close to vertical, you might put a wing
> on the foot of the rudder. The increased effeciency would compensate
> for the reduction in area.
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> Any ideas or suggestions about the resulting effects on steerage?If the rudderstock is fairly close to vertical, you might put a wing
on the foot of the rudder. The increased effeciency would compensate
for the reduction in area.
I have an Irwin 38' center cockpit sloop built in 1988. They
redesigned the keel to a shortened wing and never shortened the
rudder. I bought the boat new and it was shipped that way. I have
been careful, but cruise in the Rock Infested North Channel of Lake
Huron and Georgian Bay and am tired of being so nervous. I plan to
cut off part of the offending rudder bottom and reseal it before I
tear it off on a grounding.
Any ideas or suggestions about the resulting effects on steerage?
I could add surface to the trailing edge, but am leery of adding to
the leading edge. I am also leery of creating a "Barn Door" effect
if I add too much to the trailing edge.
Thanks for any responses.
Gaer
redesigned the keel to a shortened wing and never shortened the
rudder. I bought the boat new and it was shipped that way. I have
been careful, but cruise in the Rock Infested North Channel of Lake
Huron and Georgian Bay and am tired of being so nervous. I plan to
cut off part of the offending rudder bottom and reseal it before I
tear it off on a grounding.
Any ideas or suggestions about the resulting effects on steerage?
I could add surface to the trailing edge, but am leery of adding to
the leading edge. I am also leery of creating a "Barn Door" effect
if I add too much to the trailing edge.
Thanks for any responses.
Gaer