Re: used glass vs. homebuilt/amateur VS pro

"Amen"
you are the man!!!
from the stinky salmon draped shores of the Skykomish river

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan <ellengaest@b...>"
<ellengaest@b...> wrote:

> As an amateur/hobby boatbuilder,I tend to build for purely selfish
> reasons.The pleasure I derive from realizing something out of wood

> almost sinful,while doing it alone is even worse!Untold hours are
> spent in relative seclusion pouring over plans like a
> bloodhound,sniffing out the little details that will all come
> together in the form of a boat.Many designs have been subjected to
> the "sniff test" over the years but only a few have ever made into
> the"chomp down hard and chew twice" test.Nutritionist frown on this
> method of gulping down stuff designed to be good for what ails you
> but it really is the only way to get to the bottom of the
> dish,quickly,before boredom sets in or another dish sails by our
> noses!
> The selfishness does not end there either,it carries on throughout
> the building process! Many friends and collegues have offered to
> help,some even have begged, to come over to the"boat-shop-du-jour"

> lend their savy to my project.Without fail,I have turned them all
> down.I want to either suffer or rejoice in private!Besides,teaching
> is not my forté and the last thing a selfish prigg like myself

needs

> is someone else to bump me out of my self made tiny circle of
> limelight!
> With a stubborness that would make a pig jealous,I fearlessly forge
> ahead through my boatbuilding project until launch day.The passing
> weeks and months serving to allow accumulation of dozens upon

dozens

> of "incidents"or "anecdotes" to recount during dead moments at the
> breakfast table.
> Even after the successful (naturally!) launching,selfishness rides
> herd on my thoughts.I want to be in every boat parade at the club!!

> my own little brain,I smuggly know that there ain't another boat

> mine for miles around and I tell myself that those bystanders

staring

> at my wee boat are really in awe of her.Someone once did mention to
> me some nonsense about"selective" memory but I dismissed this as
> utter tripe!
> Now,I have to wonder just how much is this type of"fun" is worth?

> oh my,the endless hours of happy dreaming,hundreds of nights rocked
> to sleep by the motion of the boat at anchor,reams of boat doodles
> scattered throughout the house,all over work,and steadily keeping

the

> waste paper basket employed,many new and interesting "buddys" on

the

> web,lots of friends at the club/boatyard,well toned muscles and

ruddy

> complexion to boot!
> Well,I have to say that there ain't enough tea in China to replace
> them!It has been and continues to be,for me, a completely priceless
> experience that I would never trade it in for any other pastime!
> Sure,the materials to actually build the darned boat cost something
> but "so what"? You know you're going to spend the money
> somewhere,somehow,sometime,eventually........right? And if you are
> your own best customer,then time becomes very elastic to the point

> virtual meaninglessness(that's some word,eh?!).
> If whatever your doing just isn't fun then perhaps it is best to

seek

> out something that is fun.Otherwise,there will never be enough

money

> out there to make"a living hell" worth it.The big bucks will just
> help pay for the medication it will take to make you feel better
> about the shitty situation you may find yourself "having" to deal
> with!
> I'll take the low road,always,and selfishly enjoy myself.Hopefully
> some of my happiness will rub-off onto the band of dreamers who

lurk

> near my boat-shop-du-jour :-)
>
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,selfishly stealing time from my employer,ho,ho,ho,

from

> along the shores of the St.Lawrence........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > a Bolger boat builder can never
> > > > hope to recover his investment,
> > >

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "brucehallman <brucehallman@y...>"
<brucehallman@y...> wrote:

> > a Bolger boat builder can never
> > hope to recover his investment,
>
> Usually, for sure; never, not true.

If someone else is the builder of 50% of it, then you are the Bolger
half builder, overall it's just as true that you can't recover the
cost. You could probably scrounge a plank on frame boat 100%, and
end up with a boat that looked like it came in the bolger box.

>
> ...if you scrounge enough...
>
> So far, with my Micro, the lead in my ballast
> was 'free', and my 50% done hull was 'free'.
>
> I am four hundred dollars out of pocket so far,
> for misc. things, the biggest being epoxy.
>
> I can't say yet how much total I will pay, ...
> [scrounging now for a small outboard motor]
>
> I am curious what a used Micro Navigator
> might sell for on eBay?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "brucehallman <brucehallman@y...>"
<brucehallman@y...> wrote:

>
> I am the center of my universe,
> so his costs don't count!
>
>Must be nice to be that self-centered:-)

Nels

Nels: Yes. but how much did the builder
: of the hull invest, in time and
: money - and lose? He was the builder,
: was he not?

<grin>

I am the center of my universe,
so his costs don't count!

[Squeezed in a couple hours on my Micro
last night, working on the Mast Partner
and Mast Fid.]

Peter,
You sure captured the pleasure of building and the pride of ownership of the
homebuilder well. Makes me just want to go start another boat right now!
Of course, I feel that way all day every day anyway, but now it is even
worse ;-) But I have to satisfy myself for now with looking at designs,
designing, and building in my mind, which is fun too.
Referring to folks who take this whole boat thing much too seriously, Bolger
says in one of his books, I can't remember where, "We are supposed to be
having fun aren't we?" That's Rule #1. Anybody remember where that is
written?

Gary Lepak
on the shores of the Strait of Juan de Fuca

--- Original Message -----
From: <ellengaest@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 5:18 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: used glass vs. homebuilt/amateur VS pro

As an amateur/hobby boatbuilder,I tend to build for purely selfish
reasons.The pleasure I derive from realizing something out of wood is
almost sinful,while doing it alone is even worse!Untold hours are
spent in relative seclusion pouring over plans like a
bloodhound,sniffing out the little details that will all come
together in the form of a boat.Many designs have been subjected to
the "sniff test" over the years but only a few have ever made into
the"chomp down hard and chew twice" test.Nutritionist frown on this
method of gulping down stuff designed to be good for what ails you
but it really is the only way to get to the bottom of the
dish,quickly,before boredom sets in or another dish sails by our
noses!
The selfishness does not end there either,it carries on throughout
the building process! Many friends and collegues have offered to
help,some even have begged, to come over to the"boat-shop-du-jour" to
lend their savy to my project.Without fail,I have turned them all
down.I want to either suffer or rejoice in private!Besides,teaching
is not my forté and the last thing a selfish prigg like myself needs
is someone else to bump me out of my self made tiny circle of
limelight!
With a stubborness that would make a pig jealous,I fearlessly forge
ahead through my boatbuilding project until launch day.The passing
weeks and months serving to allow accumulation of dozens upon dozens
of "incidents"or "anecdotes" to recount during dead moments at the
breakfast table.
Even after the successful (naturally!) launching,selfishness rides
herd on my thoughts.I want to be in every boat parade at the club!!In
my own little brain,I smuggly know that there ain't another boat like
mine for miles around and I tell myself that those bystanders staring
at my wee boat are really in awe of her.Someone once did mention to
me some nonsense about"selective" memory but I dismissed this as
utter tripe!
Now,I have to wonder just how much is this type of"fun" is worth? My
oh my,the endless hours of happy dreaming,hundreds of nights rocked
to sleep by the motion of the boat at anchor,reams of boat doodles
scattered throughout the house,all over work,and steadily keeping the
waste paper basket employed,many new and interesting "buddys" on the
web,lots of friends at the club/boatyard,well toned muscles and ruddy
complexion to boot!
Well,I have to say that there ain't enough tea in China to replace
them!It has been and continues to be,for me, a completely priceless
experience that I would never trade it in for any other pastime!
Sure,the materials to actually build the darned boat cost something
but "so what"? You know you're going to spend the money
somewhere,somehow,sometime,eventually........right? And if you are
your own best customer,then time becomes very elastic to the point of
virtual meaninglessness(that's some word,eh?!).
If whatever your doing just isn't fun then perhaps it is best to seek
out something that is fun.Otherwise,there will never be enough money
out there to make"a living hell" worth it.The big bucks will just
help pay for the medication it will take to make you feel better
about the shitty situation you may find yourself "having" to deal
with!
I'll take the low road,always,and selfishly enjoy myself.Hopefully
some of my happiness will rub-off onto the band of dreamers who lurk
near my boat-shop-du-jour :-)

Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,selfishly stealing time from my employer,ho,ho,ho, from
along the shores of the St.Lawrence........

> > > a Bolger boat builder can never
> > > hope to recover his investment,
> >

Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

I'm reminded of the Admirals credo: "Eat dessert first, life is
uncertain!"

Bravo, Peter!

David Romasco

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Lenihan <ellengaest@...>
[mailto:ellengaest@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:18 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: used glass vs. homebuilt/amateur VS pro

As an amateur/hobby boatbuilder,I tend to build for purely selfish
reasons.The pleasure I derive from realizing something out of wood is
almost sinful,while doing it alone is even worse!Untold hours are
spent in relative seclusion pouring over plans like a
bloodhound,sniffing out the little details that will all come
together in the form of a boat.Many designs have been subjected to
the "sniff test" over the years but only a few have ever made into
the"chomp down hard and chew twice" test.Nutritionist frown on this
method of gulping down stuff designed to be good for what ails you
but it really is the only way to get to the bottom of the
dish,quickly,before boredom sets in or another dish sails by our
noses!
The selfishness does not end there either,it carries on throughout
the building process! Many friends and collegues have offered to
help,some even have begged, to come over to the"boat-shop-du-jour" to
lend their savy to my project.Without fail,I have turned them all
down.I want to either suffer or rejoice in private!Besides,teaching
is not my forté and the last thing a selfish prigg like myself needs
is someone else to bump me out of my self made tiny circle of
limelight!
With a stubborness that would make a pig jealous,I fearlessly forge
ahead through my boatbuilding project until launch day.The passing
weeks and months serving to allow accumulation of dozens upon dozens
of "incidents"or "anecdotes" to recount during dead moments at the
breakfast table.
Even after the successful (naturally!) launching,selfishness rides
herd on my thoughts.I want to be in every boat parade at the club!!In
my own little brain,I smuggly know that there ain't another boat like
mine for miles around and I tell myself that those bystanders staring
at my wee boat are really in awe of her.Someone once did mention to
me some nonsense about"selective" memory but I dismissed this as
utter tripe!
Now,I have to wonder just how much is this type of"fun" is worth? My
oh my,the endless hours of happy dreaming,hundreds of nights rocked
to sleep by the motion of the boat at anchor,reams of boat doodles
scattered throughout the house,all over work,and steadily keeping the
waste paper basket employed,many new and interesting "buddys" on the
web,lots of friends at the club/boatyard,well toned muscles and ruddy
complexion to boot!
Well,I have to say that there ain't enough tea in China to replace
them!It has been and continues to be,for me, a completely priceless
experience that I would never trade it in for any other pastime!
Sure,the materials to actually build the darned boat cost something
but "so what"? You know you're going to spend the money
somewhere,somehow,sometime,eventually........right? And if you are
your own best customer,then time becomes very elastic to the point of
virtual meaninglessness(that's some word,eh?!).
If whatever your doing just isn't fun then perhaps it is best to seek
out something that is fun.Otherwise,there will never be enough money
out there to make"a living hell" worth it.The big bucks will just
help pay for the medication it will take to make you feel better
about the shitty situation you may find yourself "having" to deal
with!
I'll take the low road,always,and selfishly enjoy myself.Hopefully
some of my happiness will rub-off onto the band of dreamers who lurk
near my boat-shop-du-jour :-)

Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,selfishly stealing time from my employer,ho,ho,ho, from
along the shores of the St.Lawrence........

> > > a Bolger boat builder can never
> > > hope to recover his investment,
> >

As an amateur/hobby boatbuilder,I tend to build for purely selfish
reasons.The pleasure I derive from realizing something out of wood is
almost sinful,while doing it alone is even worse!Untold hours are
spent in relative seclusion pouring over plans like a
bloodhound,sniffing out the little details that will all come
together in the form of a boat.Many designs have been subjected to
the "sniff test" over the years but only a few have ever made into
the"chomp down hard and chew twice" test.Nutritionist frown on this
method of gulping down stuff designed to be good for what ails you
but it really is the only way to get to the bottom of the
dish,quickly,before boredom sets in or another dish sails by our
noses!
The selfishness does not end there either,it carries on throughout
the building process! Many friends and collegues have offered to
help,some even have begged, to come over to the"boat-shop-du-jour" to
lend their savy to my project.Without fail,I have turned them all
down.I want to either suffer or rejoice in private!Besides,teaching
is not my forté and the last thing a selfish prigg like myself needs
is someone else to bump me out of my self made tiny circle of
limelight!
With a stubborness that would make a pig jealous,I fearlessly forge
ahead through my boatbuilding project until launch day.The passing
weeks and months serving to allow accumulation of dozens upon dozens
of "incidents"or "anecdotes" to recount during dead moments at the
breakfast table.
Even after the successful (naturally!) launching,selfishness rides
herd on my thoughts.I want to be in every boat parade at the club!!In
my own little brain,I smuggly know that there ain't another boat like
mine for miles around and I tell myself that those bystanders staring
at my wee boat are really in awe of her.Someone once did mention to
me some nonsense about"selective" memory but I dismissed this as
utter tripe!
Now,I have to wonder just how much is this type of"fun" is worth? My
oh my,the endless hours of happy dreaming,hundreds of nights rocked
to sleep by the motion of the boat at anchor,reams of boat doodles
scattered throughout the house,all over work,and steadily keeping the
waste paper basket employed,many new and interesting "buddys" on the
web,lots of friends at the club/boatyard,well toned muscles and ruddy
complexion to boot!
Well,I have to say that there ain't enough tea in China to replace
them!It has been and continues to be,for me, a completely priceless
experience that I would never trade it in for any other pastime!
Sure,the materials to actually build the darned boat cost something
but "so what"? You know you're going to spend the money
somewhere,somehow,sometime,eventually........right? And if you are
your own best customer,then time becomes very elastic to the point of
virtual meaninglessness(that's some word,eh?!).
If whatever your doing just isn't fun then perhaps it is best to seek
out something that is fun.Otherwise,there will never be enough money
out there to make"a living hell" worth it.The big bucks will just
help pay for the medication it will take to make you feel better
about the shitty situation you may find yourself "having" to deal
with!
I'll take the low road,always,and selfishly enjoy myself.Hopefully
some of my happiness will rub-off onto the band of dreamers who lurk
near my boat-shop-du-jour :-)

Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,selfishly stealing time from my employer,ho,ho,ho, from
along the shores of the St.Lawrence........

> > > a Bolger boat builder can never
> > > hope to recover his investment,
> >

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "brucehallman <brucehallman@y...>"
<brucehallman@y...> wrote:

> > a Bolger boat builder can never
> > hope to recover his investment,
>
> Usually, for sure; never, not true.
>
> ...if you scrounge enough...
>
> So far, with my Micro, the lead in my ballast
> was 'free', and my 50% done hull was 'free'.
>

Yes. but how much did the builder of the hull invest, in time and
money - and lose? He was the builder, was he not?

Nels, (hiding his envy as best he can:-)

> a Bolger boat builder can never
> hope to recover his investment,

Usually, for sure; never, not true.

...if you scrounge enough...

So far, with my Micro, the lead in my ballast
was 'free', and my 50% done hull was 'free'.

I am four hundred dollars out of pocket so far,
for misc. things, the biggest being epoxy.

I can't say yet how much total I will pay, ...
[scrounging now for a small outboard motor]

I am curious what a used Micro Navigator
might sell for on eBay?

Boats - you pays your money and take your choice.
Bolger boats - you makes your choice and pay your money. (and love
it)
DonB

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Lepak" <gnjlepak@o...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> >
> > >If one can purchase a used boat for less than buiding a Bolger
boat
> > >and a Bolger boat builder can never hope to recover his
investment,
> > >then it seems obvious that the best deal of all is to buy a used
> > >Bolger boat!
> >
> > One big, Big, BIG problem with a buying a used Bolger Boat --
someone
> > else gets the fun of building it!
> >
> > YIBB!
> >
> > David
>
> Another big problem is that there are so few used Bolger boats to
choose
> from, it is pretty unnlikely you will find the design you want
when you want
> it in your area. There are so many glass boats everywhere there
is a lot to
> choose from.
>
> Last summer my wife and I found ourselves in immediate need of a
small
> trailersailer cruiser and didn't want wait for me to build one.
So we gave
> in to the used glass boat thing. I set our standards as easily
trailerable,
> ramp launched, sleeps two, ready to sail as is (but could need
other work),
> for under $2,000. Within two weeks I found a Lyle Hess designed
Balboa 20
> swing keel on a trailer advertised in the Boattraderonline for
$1,250 with
> trailer but no motor. (We already had a motor anyway). It was 150
miles
> away. We made a phone call, drove down and bought it for $1,200.
A few
> days later we were sailing.
>
> I love building boats, can't stop in fact, but we wouldn't have
gotten on
> the water last summer otherwise. I would have looked at any
similar Bolger
> in the area for sale, but there weren't any. I hope to start a
new custom
> boat next summer, but while I'm building we will have this one to
enjoy, and
> a lot of the equipment will be transferrable. Using it gives me
ideas on
> the things I want in my trailersailor dreamboat and when I don't
need it
> anymore I can probably quickly sell it for what I paid or more ;-)
> Most of the boats I've had the last 30 years, I've built myself.
I don't
> have the feeling for this glass boat that I do for my home
builts. It's
> just kind of like another car or truck to me, no emotional
attatchment.
> That is one of the things I like about building my own along with
just the
> fun of building.
>
> Gary

----- Original Message -----

>
> >If one can purchase a used boat for less than buiding a Bolger boat
> >and a Bolger boat builder can never hope to recover his investment,
> >then it seems obvious that the best deal of all is to buy a used
> >Bolger boat!
>
> One big, Big, BIG problem with a buying a used Bolger Boat -- someone
> else gets the fun of building it!
>
> YIBB!
>
> David

Another big problem is that there are so few used Bolger boats to choose
from, it is pretty unnlikely you will find the design you want when you want
it in your area. There are so many glass boats everywhere there is a lot to
choose from.

Last summer my wife and I found ourselves in immediate need of a small
trailersailer cruiser and didn't want wait for me to build one. So we gave
in to the used glass boat thing. I set our standards as easily trailerable,
ramp launched, sleeps two, ready to sail as is (but could need other work),
for under $2,000. Within two weeks I found a Lyle Hess designed Balboa 20
swing keel on a trailer advertised in the Boattraderonline for $1,250 with
trailer but no motor. (We already had a motor anyway). It was 150 miles
away. We made a phone call, drove down and bought it for $1,200. A few
days later we were sailing.

I love building boats, can't stop in fact, but we wouldn't have gotten on
the water last summer otherwise. I would have looked at any similar Bolger
in the area for sale, but there weren't any. I hope to start a new custom
boat next summer, but while I'm building we will have this one to enjoy, and
a lot of the equipment will be transferrable. Using it gives me ideas on
the things I want in my trailersailor dreamboat and when I don't need it
anymore I can probably quickly sell it for what I paid or more ;-)
Most of the boats I've had the last 30 years, I've built myself. I don't
have the feeling for this glass boat that I do for my home builts. It's
just kind of like another car or truck to me, no emotional attatchment.
That is one of the things I like about building my own along with just the
fun of building.

Gary