[bolger] Re: Crossing the Atlantic
>FBBB -help .... mail me if your interested ... Simon.
>
>The current plan/fantasy runs as follows:
>
>1) Build or buy the cheapest boat capable of capable of make the trip
>during the most favorable time of year.
>
>2) Fill boat with powerbars and frozen vegetables.
>
>3) Depart at earliest possible date.
>
>4) Up arrival in Ireland, France or whatever I eventually bump into;
>dispose of boat in quickest fashion possible, i.e. sell for $500 bmu,
>scuttle, burn.
>
>4) (alternate) If I don't die, and if I make landfall in Ireland, and
>if I locate long-lost relative, and if I think I ever want to do
>something like this again, leave boat with relatives.
>
>5) Fly home.
>
>6) (alternate) Return to boat by air.
>
>7) (alternate) Sail boat back from East to West.
>
>*********
>
>I've browsing the yahoo and excite classified. There are *lots* of
>25-30 foot boats for $5000-$10,000. If I knew more about what a boat
>needs to be to make the trip, I'd probably be in negotiations right
>now. I hope figuring out what a boat needs to be will help educated
>me on what I need to know to do this.
>
>YIBB,
>
>David Ryan
>Call us when you're in the city (212)247-0296
>Call us when you're in Montuak (631)668-2826
>
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>
>
>David ... as someone who has done the trip a few times , i might be able to
Peter,
"peter vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
for LM puts it on the lighter side w.r.t. Micro. I expect LM to be
significantly more tender than the Micro (as actually reported by LM
sailors), also because of its huge sail area, and that could be an
issue for offshore use. I think that the worst features of the Micro
family for offshore use are the unstayed masts and the vertical sides.
I'm pretty sure though that a properly strenghtened Micro or Long Micro
could do the crossing, but don't ask me to try...
Sounds like a junk rig could be a good idea.
Best, Pippo
"peter vanderwaart" <pvander-@...> wrote:
> 1) Long Micro. It's hard to believe that Long Micro wouldn't be betterUhm... I agree with what you say, however the ballast/dispacement ratio
> than Micro. You need the carrying capacity, and the extra length would
> give significantly better speed.
for LM puts it on the lighter side w.r.t. Micro. I expect LM to be
significantly more tender than the Micro (as actually reported by LM
sailors), also because of its huge sail area, and that could be an
issue for offshore use. I think that the worst features of the Micro
family for offshore use are the unstayed masts and the vertical sides.
I'm pretty sure though that a properly strenghtened Micro or Long Micro
could do the crossing, but don't ask me to try...
> 2) The cat-yawl rig is not a good one for off-shore. The boom is tooif
> long, the mast too far forward. With a boat that small, you are going
> to have to work with the wind and current, so weatherliness isn't a
> priority. So, why not use a rig optimized for downwind sailing? Hey,
> it's good enough to discover Vineland, it should be good enough foryou.
Sounds like a junk rig could be a good idea.
Best, Pippo
David,
I'm sorry. I was joking. I didn't realize this wasn't another "beer-soaked
speculation". Here are a couple of serious suggestions: (1) Buy a sound used
steel boat, preferably Dutch, in the US, where they are disgracefully
undervalued. You might even be able to sell it at a profit in Europe; (2)
Build a Micro Voyager (after consultation with PB&F about the practicality
of the scheme). I think whoever commissioned the design originally had such
a voyage in mind, but Bolger was coy about the intended use when he
introduced the design in MAIB. Looking it over, I am sure you could put one
together for much less than $7500, and recover at least some money by
salvaging the hardware, gear and sails if you have to dispose of the boat at
the end of the trip. Use lumberyard materials, but good glue, and carry a
SSB radio, a life boat and an EPIRB (of course you will do this no matter
what boat you choose). Btw, my longest offshore passage has only been from
Ft. Lauderdale to Gun Cay and back. That was in a Hunter 30, however, so I
guess it was more of a stunt than a serious voyage,
david
David Ryan wrote:
"Proven"
This is a word I keep running into as I read more and research boats.
I'm sorry. I was joking. I didn't realize this wasn't another "beer-soaked
speculation". Here are a couple of serious suggestions: (1) Buy a sound used
steel boat, preferably Dutch, in the US, where they are disgracefully
undervalued. You might even be able to sell it at a profit in Europe; (2)
Build a Micro Voyager (after consultation with PB&F about the practicality
of the scheme). I think whoever commissioned the design originally had such
a voyage in mind, but Bolger was coy about the intended use when he
introduced the design in MAIB. Looking it over, I am sure you could put one
together for much less than $7500, and recover at least some money by
salvaging the hardware, gear and sails if you have to dispose of the boat at
the end of the trip. Use lumberyard materials, but good glue, and carry a
SSB radio, a life boat and an EPIRB (of course you will do this no matter
what boat you choose). Btw, my longest offshore passage has only been from
Ft. Lauderdale to Gun Cay and back. That was in a Hunter 30, however, so I
guess it was more of a stunt than a serious voyage,
david
David Ryan wrote:
"Proven"
This is a word I keep running into as I read more and research boats.
> "Proven" I don't think is what I want. Perhaps "prudent" is a better
> words, as in: "The Sag Harbor Sloop is a prudent passage maker."
>
> Also, I don't think it counts until someone besides the designer,
> builder, or nut who did it says that it's so.
>
> But thanks for your helpful suggestion.
>
> >David Ryan wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>4) Up arrival in Ireland, France or whatever I eventually bump into;
> >>dispose of boat in quickest fashion possible, i.e. sell for $500 bmu,
> >>scuttle, burn.
>
> I am very seriously trying to use "instant boat" design parameters to
> conceive of this trip, i.e. first remove all impediments to success.
> Worrying about getting the boat back home seems like a serious
> impediment. The obvious answer is to accept the total loss of the
> boat as a cost of making the trip. I'm not sure where my breaking
> point on this is, but my wife thinks about $7,500, including return
> airfare, but not including provisions.
>
> Has anyone on this list actually *done* such a thing as cross an
> ocean in a small boat?
>
> David Ryan
> Minister of Information and Culture
> Crumbling Empire Productions
> (212) 247-0296
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
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Peter,
1) I was just kidding about the Klepper. Really. It was supposed to
be a joke. Gosh!
2) As for the AS-29 interior, obviously you would have to make some
modifications, as you would with almost any boat. You would have to search
long and hard for a production boat with an interior up for even a crossing
to Bermuda. Ideally, the modifications to the interior would be reversible,
so the boat could be used for more modest adventures in the future (this
would also be desirable in any other boat),
david
Peter Vanderwaart wrote:
1) It seems to me that the first guy to cross the Atlantic in a canoe
(was it the Klepper?) did it from East to West, ending in the West
Indies, somewhere. This is certainly not the same as going West to
East
in the North Atlantic. He didn't take large amounts of fresh water
because he had learned that he could squeeze liquid (not blood) out
of
fish that was un-briney enough to keep himself somewhat hydrated. And
he was almost dead when he got to the new world. This is not a method
of passagemaking that I would choose to emulate. This was in the
1950's, I think.
2) One problem with using an AS-29 for ocean passages that has not been
mentioned is that the interior is set up for coastal cruising. Where
are you going to sleep? You want a berth that is fore & aft, and
narrow
enough to chock yourself into in rough weather. And, if you happened
to
spend a week or two heeled over on starboard tack, you might feel the
need to communicate with the designer on the subject of side-facing
companionway ladders.
If you are going with the prevailing winds, I favor Long Micro with
a
square sale, like a Viking longboat (Longboat Micro?).
Peter
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> 1) I was just kidding about the Klepper. Really. It was supposed tobe a
> joke. Gosh!I'm sorry. I knew it was a joke. I was just showing off. I'll try to
control my pompous tendancies. The fact that I own a large and fancy
yacht (Capri 22) sometimes goes to my head.
Peter
Peter wrote;
was about 15 days out when the inner tube that he had mounted as a an
out rigger, turned into a man servant and he wrote at length about the
conversations he and the, "inner tube servant" had. It is a great book
and a study of depravation. I wish I could remember to title.
Not really the kind of passage I would like to make, more of a
survival story. The kind of thing when, while reading it, you get hungry
and thirsty to the extent, that biting the head of a fish sounds yummy.
If anyone knows the name of the book, please post it, I would like to
reread it.
Stan, Snow Goose
> 1) It seems to me that the first guy to cross the Atlantic in a canoeIf I'm not mistaken, the guy wrote a book about his crossing, and it
> (was it the Klepper?) did it from East to West, ending in the West
> Indies, somewhere. This is certainly not the same as going West to East
> in the North Atlantic. He didn't take large amounts of fresh water
> because he had learned that he could squeeze liquid (not blood) out of
> fish that was un-briney enough to keep himself somewhat hydrated. And
> he was almost dead when he got to the new world. This is not a method
> of passagemaking that I would choose to emulate. This was in the
> 1950's, I think.
was about 15 days out when the inner tube that he had mounted as a an
out rigger, turned into a man servant and he wrote at length about the
conversations he and the, "inner tube servant" had. It is a great book
and a study of depravation. I wish I could remember to title.
Not really the kind of passage I would like to make, more of a
survival story. The kind of thing when, while reading it, you get hungry
and thirsty to the extent, that biting the head of a fish sounds yummy.
If anyone knows the name of the book, please post it, I would like to
reread it.
Stan, Snow Goose
I have crossed the Gulf of Mexico in November, and sailed a bit on both the
Left and Right U.S. coast.
Just leafing through the "Sailboat Trader", I saw several boats which are
probably good for a prudent Atlantic passage, for less than $10,000. They
probably would require another $5,000 to fit out, so you are 100% over
budget, just about where you'll be if you decide to build a passagemaker.
I think the Klepper folder violates your "prudent" and "not a stunt" rules,
among others...
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
Left and Right U.S. coast.
Just leafing through the "Sailboat Trader", I saw several boats which are
probably good for a prudent Atlantic passage, for less than $10,000. They
probably would require another $5,000 to fit out, so you are 100% over
budget, just about where you'll be if you decide to build a passagemaker.
I think the Klepper folder violates your "prudent" and "not a stunt" rules,
among others...
Don Hodges
dhodges@...
http://www.ecoastlife.com
Your Cyber-Vacation - Loafing on the Emerald Coast
Small Boats, Building, Fishing, Paddling, Rowing, Sailing
----- Original Message -----
From: David Ryan <david@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 10:21 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Crossing the Atlantic
> >David,
> >Why not use a Klepper folding kayak? You can buy one in Manhattan,
> >86th and Fifth, I think. One has already been used to cross the
> >puddle, so it's a proven vessel, and you can return by air with the
> >boat in your luggage.
>
> "Proven"
>
> This is a word I keep running into as I read more and research boats.
> "Proven" I don't think is what I want. Perhaps "prudent" is a better
> words, as in: "The Sag Harbor Sloop is a prudent passage maker."
>
> Also, I don't think it counts until someone besides the designer,
> builder, or nut who did it says that it's so.
>
> But thanks for your helpful suggestion.
>
> >David Ryan wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>4) Up arrival in Ireland, France or whatever I eventually bump into;
> >>dispose of boat in quickest fashion possible, i.e. sell for $500 bmu,
> >>scuttle, burn.
>
> I am very seriously trying to use "instant boat" design parameters to
> conceive of this trip, i.e. first remove all impediments to success.
> Worrying about getting the boat back home seems like a serious
> impediment. The obvious answer is to accept the total loss of the
> boat as a cost of making the trip. I'm not sure where my breaking
> point on this is, but my wife thinks about $7,500, including return
> airfare, but not including provisions.
>
> Has anyone on this list actually *done* such a thing as cross an
> ocean in a small boat?
>
>
> David Ryan
> Minister of Information and Culture
> Crumbling Empire Productions
> (212) 247-0296
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/933/5/_/3457/_/950718020/
>
> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
> --http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
>
>
>
> >If you are going with the prevailing winds, I favor Long Micro with ahand?
> >square sale, like a Viking longboat (Longboat Micro?).
> >
>
> Peter, is this based on an experience you have had either 1st or 2nd
>No, it's a wise-ass remark based on a couple of serious thoughts.
1) Long Micro. It's hard to believe that Long Micro wouldn't be better
than Micro. You need the carrying capacity, and the extra length would
give significantly better speed.
2) The cat-yawl rig is not a good one for off-shore. The boom is too
long, the mast too far forward. With a boat that small, you are going
to have to work with the wind and current, so weatherliness isn't a
priority. So, why not use a rig optimized for downwind sailing? Hey, if
it's good enough to discover Vineland, it should be good enough for you.
Peter
David,
Why not use a Klepper folding kayak? You can buy one in Manhattan, 86th and Fifth, I think. One has already been used to cross the puddle, so it's a proven vessel, and you can return by air with the boat in your luggage. Btw, I recall that the guy who did the last crossing in this boat had to drink his own urine to maintain hydration on the trip, so you'll be able to appreciate English cuisine when and if that's where you wind up <g>,
david
Why not use a Klepper folding kayak? You can buy one in Manhattan, 86th and Fifth, I think. One has already been used to cross the puddle, so it's a proven vessel, and you can return by air with the boat in your luggage. Btw, I recall that the guy who did the last crossing in this boat had to drink his own urine to maintain hydration on the trip, so you'll be able to appreciate English cuisine when and if that's where you wind up <g>,
david
David Ryan wrote:
FBBB -
The current plan/fantasy runs as follows:
1) Build or buy the cheapest boat capable of capable of make the trip
during the most favorable time of year.
2) Fill boat with powerbars and frozen vegetables.
3) Depart at earliest possible date.
4) Up arrival in Ireland, France or whatever I eventually bump into;
dispose of boat in quickest fashion possible, i.e. sell for $500 bmu,
scuttle, burn.
4) (alternate) If I don't die, and if I make landfall in Ireland, and
if I locate long-lost relative, and if I think I ever want to do
something like this again, leave boat with relatives.
5) Fly home.
6) (alternate) Return to boat by air.
7) (alternate) Sail boat back from East to West.
*********
I've browsing the yahoo and excite classified. There are *lots* of
25-30 foot boats for $5000-$10,000. If I knew more about what a boat
needs to be to make the trip, I'd probably be in negotiations right
now. I hope figuring out what a boat needs to be will help educated
me on what I need to know to do this.
YIBB,
David Ryan
Call us when you're in the city (212)247-0296
Call us when you're in Montuak (631)668-2826
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>Peter, is this based on an experience you have had either 1st or 2nd hand?
>
>If you are going with the prevailing winds, I favor Long Micro with a
>square sale, like a Viking longboat (Longboat Micro?).
>
David Ryan
Minister of Information and Culture
Crumbling Empire Productions
(212) 247-0296
>Why not use a Klepper folding kayak? You can buy one in Manhattan,Two items for different strands of this thread.
>86th and Fifth, I think. One has already been used to cross the
>puddle, so it's a proven vessel, and you can return by air with the
>boat in your luggage.
1) It seems to me that the first guy to cross the Atlantic in a canoe
(was it the Klepper?) did it from East to West, ending in the West
Indies, somewhere. This is certainly not the same as going West to East
in the North Atlantic. He didn't take large amounts of fresh water
because he had learned that he could squeeze liquid (not blood) out of
fish that was un-briney enough to keep himself somewhat hydrated. And
he was almost dead when he got to the new world. This is not a method
of passagemaking that I would choose to emulate. This was in the
1950's, I think.
2) One problem with using an AS-29 for ocean passages that has not been
mentioned is that the interior is set up for coastal cruising. Where
are you going to sleep? You want a berth that is fore & aft, and narrow
enough to chock yourself into in rough weather. And, if you happened to
spend a week or two heeled over on starboard tack, you might feel the
need to communicate with the designer on the subject of side-facing
companionway ladders.
If you are going with the prevailing winds, I favor Long Micro with a
square sale, like a Viking longboat (Longboat Micro?).
Peter
>David,"Proven"
>Why not use a Klepper folding kayak? You can buy one in Manhattan,
>86th and Fifth, I think. One has already been used to cross the
>puddle, so it's a proven vessel, and you can return by air with the
>boat in your luggage.
This is a word I keep running into as I read more and research boats.
"Proven" I don't think is what I want. Perhaps "prudent" is a better
words, as in: "The Sag Harbor Sloop is a prudent passage maker."
Also, I don't think it counts until someone besides the designer,
builder, or nut who did it says that it's so.
But thanks for your helpful suggestion.
>David Ryan wrote:I am very seriously trying to use "instant boat" design parameters to
>
>>
>>4) Up arrival in Ireland, France or whatever I eventually bump into;
>>dispose of boat in quickest fashion possible, i.e. sell for $500 bmu,
>>scuttle, burn.
conceive of this trip, i.e. first remove all impediments to success.
Worrying about getting the boat back home seems like a serious
impediment. The obvious answer is to accept the total loss of the
boat as a cost of making the trip. I'm not sure where my breaking
point on this is, but my wife thinks about $7,500, including return
airfare, but not including provisions.
Has anyone on this list actually *done* such a thing as cross an
ocean in a small boat?
David Ryan
Minister of Information and Culture
Crumbling Empire Productions
(212) 247-0296
FBBB -
The current plan/fantasy runs as follows:
1) Build or buy the cheapest boat capable of capable of make the trip
during the most favorable time of year.
2) Fill boat with powerbars and frozen vegetables.
3) Depart at earliest possible date.
4) Up arrival in Ireland, France or whatever I eventually bump into;
dispose of boat in quickest fashion possible, i.e. sell for $500 bmu,
scuttle, burn.
4) (alternate) If I don't die, and if I make landfall in Ireland, and
if I locate long-lost relative, and if I think I ever want to do
something like this again, leave boat with relatives.
5) Fly home.
6) (alternate) Return to boat by air.
7) (alternate) Sail boat back from East to West.
*********
I've browsing the yahoo and excite classified. There are *lots* of
25-30 foot boats for $5000-$10,000. If I knew more about what a boat
needs to be to make the trip, I'd probably be in negotiations right
now. I hope figuring out what a boat needs to be will help educated
me on what I need to know to do this.
YIBB,
David Ryan
Call us when you're in the city (212)247-0296
Call us when you're in Montuak (631)668-2826
The current plan/fantasy runs as follows:
1) Build or buy the cheapest boat capable of capable of make the trip
during the most favorable time of year.
2) Fill boat with powerbars and frozen vegetables.
3) Depart at earliest possible date.
4) Up arrival in Ireland, France or whatever I eventually bump into;
dispose of boat in quickest fashion possible, i.e. sell for $500 bmu,
scuttle, burn.
4) (alternate) If I don't die, and if I make landfall in Ireland, and
if I locate long-lost relative, and if I think I ever want to do
something like this again, leave boat with relatives.
5) Fly home.
6) (alternate) Return to boat by air.
7) (alternate) Sail boat back from East to West.
*********
I've browsing the yahoo and excite classified. There are *lots* of
25-30 foot boats for $5000-$10,000. If I knew more about what a boat
needs to be to make the trip, I'd probably be in negotiations right
now. I hope figuring out what a boat needs to be will help educated
me on what I need to know to do this.
YIBB,
David Ryan
Call us when you're in the city (212)247-0296
Call us when you're in Montuak (631)668-2826
David , depends where you are crossing from and to , but assuming you are
referring to north of the north atlantic high you should make it in under 4
weeks , of course if it was me i'd be pulling into the Azores on the way
.... Simon .
referring to north of the north atlantic high you should make it in under 4
weeks , of course if it was me i'd be pulling into the Azores on the way
.... Simon .
>
>What is a typical time span for crossing the atlantic from West to East
>in a 30-40 foot sail boat? What's the shortest time one might hope
>for, or the longest?
>
>YIBB,
>
>David
>
>
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>
>
>
FBBB --
What is a typical time span for crossing the atlantic from West to East
in a 30-40 foot sail boat? What's the shortest time one might hope
for, or the longest?
YIBB,
David
What is a typical time span for crossing the atlantic from West to East
in a 30-40 foot sail boat? What's the shortest time one might hope
for, or the longest?
YIBB,
David