Re: boat engines
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
you get to the end the faster it seems to go.
Charles
> Peter, time is goin by to fast for you, A year or so back wasJan/Feb 97
> issue 134.to many
>
> I too suffer from time acceleration and too few years left with way
> boats still to build.Someone said that life is like a roll of toilet paper - the closer
>
> HJ
you get to the end the faster it seems to go.
Charles
Probably only interesting as ancient history but here in Australia,at least,it was routine to use pre war [ww2 that is,my how the wars have flown] 4cyl side valve auto engines in marine and other,notably tractor and small sawmill applications. Model A Ford, and Willys Jeep were common and I have seen Dodge 4. The Dodge/Chrysler sv 6 was used in a large fleet of hire cruisers nearby,70 odd vessels in all. They were crude,low speed engines with extraordinary long lives in utter neglect provided they were fresh water cooled. They were geared to run at max. torque,say 1200-1500rpm with a 2 or 3 to 1 reduction marine gearbox separately mounted via a short cardan shaft. This gave a really good slow prop speed for min. slip and large wheel dia. My old prawn [shrimp to you guys] trawler had a Willys and the pulling power developed was remarkable considering the small engine capacity. It was old when I had it and STILL lives on as a private vessel. Repro engine bits are pretty common from Asia and I believe it finally got a heart transplant. I kept the fuel clean,the oil changed and the cooling water abundant and it worked for thousands of hours with a nice puttering dry exhaust note that let other trawlers know who else was up and doing at 3am.Now the problem with all old engines ,whatever the application,is that they were designed for leaded petrol which protected the exhaust valves by forming a soft seal. I can't say how good all the fixes are going to be but I can still buy a re-built willys sv 4 here in Sydney and I know it will survive anything except salt water. Andy Wilson
robby plunkett <robbylplunkett@...> wrote:we had discussed different types of engines for boats other than outboard.
has it been considered to use motorcycle engines????? as far as i know they
are available up to 1200cc and water cooled /air cooled option too. they
could possibly be used as is,utilize clutch and transmission,if necessary
use other gears to reduce rpm for power ratio. how about generator
powered electric motor???? small auto engine,air cooled,vw,corvair,,,older
light aircraft engines like rotex,, or water cooled geo,honda,toyota,,,any
thoughts??? robby
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robby plunkett <robbylplunkett@...> wrote:we had discussed different types of engines for boats other than outboard.
has it been considered to use motorcycle engines????? as far as i know they
are available up to 1200cc and water cooled /air cooled option too. they
could possibly be used as is,utilize clutch and transmission,if necessary
use other gears to reduce rpm for power ratio. how about generator
powered electric motor???? small auto engine,air cooled,vw,corvair,,,older
light aircraft engines like rotex,, or water cooled geo,honda,toyota,,,any
thoughts??? robby
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- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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Howdy
for assuming. :( Ok I'll go with the Geo Metro engine. :)
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
> -----Original Message-----Beats me, I thought that they used gears for reverse. That's what I get
> From: Jeff Blunck [mailto:boatbuilding@...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 1:00 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] boat engines
>
>
> I guess the Goldwing has change from my younger days (70s)
> when the reverse
> in my Goldwing was run by the starter. Put it in reverse and
> press the
> starter button. Only good for getting back away from a curb
> or such, not
> for long term running.
>
> Has that changed? If not, I can't see that working on a boat
> too well.
for assuming. :( Ok I'll go with the Geo Metro engine. :)
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
I guess the Goldwing has change from my younger days (70s) when the reverse
in my Goldwing was run by the starter. Put it in reverse and press the
starter button. Only good for getting back away from a curb or such, not
for long term running.
Has that changed? If not, I can't see that working on a boat too well.
Jeff
in my Goldwing was run by the starter. Put it in reverse and press the
starter button. Only good for getting back away from a curb or such, not
for long term running.
Has that changed? If not, I can't see that working on a boat too well.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: [bolger] boat engines
> Howdy Robby
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: robby plunkett [mailto:robbylplunkett@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 11:56 PM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] boat engines
> >
> >
> > has it been considered to use motorcycle engines????? as far
>
> I was just wondering the other day how a Honda goldwing engine would
> work. Flat four, quiet, water cooled, shaft drive, 5 forward speeds and
> reverse. :) I don't know the details of the shaft drive, whether the
> shaft is dry or wet. If it's a dry shaft, then it shouldn't be too
> difficult to connect a propeller shaft to it, but if it's a wet shaft
> (in an oil bath, or lubricated by the engine's oil system) then it would
> be a bit more difficult.
>
> See Ya
>
> Have Fun
>
> Bruce
>
> www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
And you can allways use veggie oils to power the diesel motor, heaters etc.
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Ken
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:37 AM
Subject: RE: [bolger] boat engines
> Howdy Robby
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: robby plunkett [mailto:robbylplunkett@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:23 AM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] boat engines
> >
> > good suggestions guys,i learned a lot here. how about the new toyota
> > "eco",this would be an interesting hybrid set up,may be
> > cheaper a few years
>
> It is far less damaging to the environment to use an existing power
> plant than to buy the most "Eco" friendly power plant. :) So fire up
> that dirty diesel and save the planet. :o
>
> See Ya
>
> Have Fun
>
> Bruce
>
> www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Peter, time is goin by to fast for you, A year or so back was Jan/Feb 97
issue 134.
I too suffer from time acceleration and too few years left with way to many
boats still to build.
HJ
issue 134.
I too suffer from time acceleration and too few years left with way to many
boats still to build.
HJ
>
> There was an article in Woodenboat a year or so back about putting a
> small auto (Suburu?) engine is a boat. Both the article and the
> responses in subsequent issues raised a lot of points of interest.
>
> I think it's one of those areas where something can be done right and
> have great success and long life, or poorly and have some success for
> a short time.
>
> Peter
>
>
Howdy Robby
plant than to buy the most "Eco" friendly power plant. :) So fire up
that dirty diesel and save the planet. :o
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
> -----Original Message-----It is far less damaging to the environment to use an existing power
> From: robby plunkett [mailto:robbylplunkett@...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:23 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] boat engines
>
> good suggestions guys,i learned a lot here. how about the new toyota
> "eco",this would be an interesting hybrid set up,may be
> cheaper a few years
plant than to buy the most "Eco" friendly power plant. :) So fire up
that dirty diesel and save the planet. :o
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
IWhen I was touting the Hankinson/ Witt book "Inboard Motor Installation"
earlier I didn't make it clear that it is mostly about converting automobile
engines to marine use. Last time I looked most of the Volvo and Mercuiser
blocks are GM engines with marine stuff on them. You can get parts, including
a long or short block right from NAPA.
HJ
earlier I didn't make it clear that it is mostly about converting automobile
engines to marine use. Last time I looked most of the Volvo and Mercuiser
blocks are GM engines with marine stuff on them. You can get parts, including
a long or short block right from NAPA.
HJ
> Virtually all (gasoline) stern drive an inboard applications are automotive
> conversions. Again, derate the engine for continuous load. I read that
> some fishing vessels on the Oregon coast use engines out of wrecked autos.
> They figure that replacing it every year is cheaper than maintaining a more
> expensive marine engine.
>
> I've seen workboats that used the engine and transmission from a car or
> pickup. Most looked like they were older than any outboard which says
> something about durability. I'm not sure how one would adapt a front wheel
> drive transmission though. Perhaps just locking the differential would be
> enough.
>
> Doug
>
>
good suggestions guys,i learned a lot here. how about the new toyota
"eco",this would be an interesting hybrid set up,may be cheaper a few years
from now. robby
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"eco",this would be an interesting hybrid set up,may be cheaper a few years
from now. robby
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1/26/2003 9:58:27 AM, "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@...> wrote:
Marine service is the worst because there is no intermittance to the load. So your 1/3 throttle rule is probably not far off.
have a reputation for durability are the horizontal opposed Subaru and the V6 in the Nissan Quest. The Subaru is a
favorite for aircraft conversion. The Nissan engine just seems to last forever.
the pickup tank after a race to avoid putting old fuel in the bike. First time I tried this in a fuel injected vehicle I had to be
towed home.
going to a wheel.
Doug
>I've heard the same thing from folks wanting to adapt auto engines toIf you look at manufacturer's specs on an industrial engine you will note that hp rating varies greatly with service factor.
>aircraft. It seems that going down the road at 65 mph doesn't put much
>of a load on most engines. So you may want to limit the throttle to 1/3
>of maximum.
Marine service is the worst because there is no intermittance to the load. So your 1/3 throttle rule is probably not far off.
>Perhaps. Remember, though, that such small engines are also short-lived even in their intended use. Two engines that
>Then I wonder about the really small displacement engines. Like Geo
>Metro and the like. You would think that they would spend more of there
>lifetime at closer to max throttle??
have a reputation for durability are the horizontal opposed Subaru and the V6 in the Nissan Quest. The Subaru is a
favorite for aircraft conversion. The Nissan engine just seems to last forever.
>None of the fuel injected engines are tolerant of bad fuel. I always dumped my leftover race gas (2-stroke premix) into
>The only bad things about using a motorcycle is that they usually have
>complex carburetion systems that are very fussy about the quality of
>fuel they get. Not very tolerant of water in the fuel.
the pickup tank after a race to avoid putting old fuel in the bike. First time I tried this in a fuel injected vehicle I had to be
towed home.
>Mount the prop on a separate shaft with it's own thrust bearing. Connect the cv shaft with a spline coupling just like it was
>Take a Geo Metro engine/transmission package. Have the differential
>welded, and plug one of the drive axle holes, and away you go. :) (not
>much for power though.
>
>What would you use to take up the thrust on the propeller shaft??
>
going to a wheel.
Doug
Other engines to consider are the V-twins such as used in the Japanese Harley clones. These range from 500cc to
about 1500cc, low speed, shaft drive and mostly equipped with shaft counterbalancers for low vibration. It's been awhile
but I recall that the drive shaft was sealed at the back so you could probably adapt a prop rather easily. The drive shaft
housing is designed to take thrust through it's gimbal at the transmission. The shaft, however, must float.
One thing that always kept me away from motorcycle engines was the price of parts. If anything goes bad you might as
well get another engine.
Doug
1/26/2003 9:38:51 AM, "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@...> wrote:
about 1500cc, low speed, shaft drive and mostly equipped with shaft counterbalancers for low vibration. It's been awhile
but I recall that the drive shaft was sealed at the back so you could probably adapt a prop rather easily. The drive shaft
housing is designed to take thrust through it's gimbal at the transmission. The shaft, however, must float.
One thing that always kept me away from motorcycle engines was the price of parts. If anything goes bad you might as
well get another engine.
Doug
1/26/2003 9:38:51 AM, "Bruce C. Anderson" <bcanderson@...> wrote:
>I was just wondering the other day how a Honda goldwing engine would
>work.
>
Howdy
aircraft. It seems that going down the road at 65 mph doesn't put much
of a load on most engines. So you may want to limit the throttle to 1/3
of maximum.
Then I wonder about the really small displacement engines. Like Geo
Metro and the like. You would think that they would spend more of there
lifetime at closer to max throttle??
The only bad things about using a motorcycle is that they usually have
complex carburetion systems that are very fussy about the quality of
fuel they get. Not very tolerant of water in the fuel.
Take a Geo Metro engine/transmission package. Have the differential
welded, and plug one of the drive axle holes, and away you go. :) (not
much for power though.
What would you use to take up the thrust on the propeller shaft??
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
> -----Original Message-----I've heard the same thing from folks wanting to adapt auto engines to
> From: Doug Harrison [mailto:prototype@...]
> Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 7:41 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] boat engines
> Motorcycle engines will work fine as long as you derate them
> substantially. Engines of this type are designed to output
> their rated power for seconds - not hours. Water cooling is
aircraft. It seems that going down the road at 65 mph doesn't put much
of a load on most engines. So you may want to limit the throttle to 1/3
of maximum.
Then I wonder about the really small displacement engines. Like Geo
Metro and the like. You would think that they would spend more of there
lifetime at closer to max throttle??
The only bad things about using a motorcycle is that they usually have
complex carburetion systems that are very fussy about the quality of
fuel they get. Not very tolerant of water in the fuel.
Take a Geo Metro engine/transmission package. Have the differential
welded, and plug one of the drive axle holes, and away you go. :) (not
much for power though.
What would you use to take up the thrust on the propeller shaft??
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
> I was just wondering the other day how a Honda goldwing engine wouldThere was an article in Woodenboat a year or so back about putting a
> work. Flat four, quiet, water cooled, shaft drive, 5 forward
> speeds and reverse. :)
small auto (Suburu?) engine is a boat. Both the article and the
responses in subsequent issues raised a lot of points of interest.
I think it's one of those areas where something can be done right and
have great success and long life, or poorly and have some success for
a short time.
Peter
1/26/2003 1:56:03 AM, "robby plunkett" <robbylplunkett@...> wrote:
their rated power for seconds - not hours. Water cooling is preferred as this allows you to use more of the available
power if you increase the cooling capacity.
where this would do fine.
continuous load. I read that some fishing vessels on the Oregon coast use engines out of wrecked autos. They figure
that replacing it every year is cheaper than maintaining a more expensive marine engine.
I've seen workboats that used the engine and transmission from a car or pickup. Most looked like they were older than
any outboard which says something about durability. I'm not sure how one would adapt a front wheel drive transmission
though. Perhaps just locking the differential would be enough.
Doug
>we had discussed different types of engines for boats other than outboard.Motorcycle engines will work fine as long as you derate them substantially. Engines of this type are designed to output
>has it been considered to use motorcycle engines??
their rated power for seconds - not hours. Water cooling is preferred as this allows you to use more of the available
power if you increase the cooling capacity.
>how about generator powered electric motor????Electric motors are heavy and most folks don't like mixing water and electricity. I suppose there are some applications
where this would do fine.
>small auto engine,air cooled,vw,corvair,,,olderVirtually all (gasoline) stern drive an inboard applications are automotive conversions. Again, derate the engine for
>light aircraft engines like rotex,, or water cooled geo,honda,toyota,,,any
>thoughts??? robby
continuous load. I read that some fishing vessels on the Oregon coast use engines out of wrecked autos. They figure
that replacing it every year is cheaper than maintaining a more expensive marine engine.
I've seen workboats that used the engine and transmission from a car or pickup. Most looked like they were older than
any outboard which says something about durability. I'm not sure how one would adapt a front wheel drive transmission
though. Perhaps just locking the differential would be enough.
Doug
Howdy Robby
work. Flat four, quiet, water cooled, shaft drive, 5 forward speeds and
reverse. :) I don't know the details of the shaft drive, whether the
shaft is dry or wet. If it's a dry shaft, then it shouldn't be too
difficult to connect a propeller shaft to it, but if it's a wet shaft
(in an oil bath, or lubricated by the engine's oil system) then it would
be a bit more difficult.
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
> -----Original Message-----I was just wondering the other day how a Honda goldwing engine would
> From: robby plunkett [mailto:robbylplunkett@...]
> Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 11:56 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] boat engines
>
>
> has it been considered to use motorcycle engines????? as far
work. Flat four, quiet, water cooled, shaft drive, 5 forward speeds and
reverse. :) I don't know the details of the shaft drive, whether the
shaft is dry or wet. If it's a dry shaft, then it shouldn't be too
difficult to connect a propeller shaft to it, but if it's a wet shaft
(in an oil bath, or lubricated by the engine's oil system) then it would
be a bit more difficult.
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
www.myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson
OK, I can't help it... here's the green alternative:
http://www.vetus.com/frame-cat.htm
For those who need longer range, check out the hybrid combination under
development.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: robby plunkett [mailto:robbylplunkett@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 1:56 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] boat engines
we had discussed different types of engines for boats other than outboard.
has it been considered to use motorcycle engines????? as far as i know they
are available up to 1200cc and water cooled /air cooled option too. they
could possibly be used as is,utilize clutch and transmission,if necessary
use other gears to reduce rpm for power ratio. how about generator
powered electric motor???? small auto engine,air cooled,vw,corvair,,,older
light aircraft engines like rotex,, or water cooled geo,honda,toyota,,,any
thoughts??? robby
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.vetus.com/frame-cat.htm
For those who need longer range, check out the hybrid combination under
development.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: robby plunkett [mailto:robbylplunkett@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 1:56 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] boat engines
we had discussed different types of engines for boats other than outboard.
has it been considered to use motorcycle engines????? as far as i know they
are available up to 1200cc and water cooled /air cooled option too. they
could possibly be used as is,utilize clutch and transmission,if necessary
use other gears to reduce rpm for power ratio. how about generator
powered electric motor???? small auto engine,air cooled,vw,corvair,,,older
light aircraft engines like rotex,, or water cooled geo,honda,toyota,,,any
thoughts??? robby
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
we had discussed different types of engines for boats other than outboard.
has it been considered to use motorcycle engines????? as far as i know they
are available up to 1200cc and water cooled /air cooled option too. they
could possibly be used as is,utilize clutch and transmission,if necessary
use other gears to reduce rpm for power ratio. how about generator
powered electric motor???? small auto engine,air cooled,vw,corvair,,,older
light aircraft engines like rotex,, or water cooled geo,honda,toyota,,,any
thoughts??? robby
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
has it been considered to use motorcycle engines????? as far as i know they
are available up to 1200cc and water cooled /air cooled option too. they
could possibly be used as is,utilize clutch and transmission,if necessary
use other gears to reduce rpm for power ratio. how about generator
powered electric motor???? small auto engine,air cooled,vw,corvair,,,older
light aircraft engines like rotex,, or water cooled geo,honda,toyota,,,any
thoughts??? robby
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail