Re: [bolger] Bilge pump, wiring/voltage questions.
My two cents, base only on my experience;
Batteries... I'vehad good luck with gel batteries. Yes, I know they cost
more and there are special charging requirements, but .... they don't
spill, leak, or fume, very nice as I assume you'll be living "in" the
battery compartment. They are very tolerant of long term non-use, low
temperature storage, and are vibration resistant. Very easy to stow away
a second backup battery that you can swap out when the juice goes down.
Wiring chase .. Are you building in pvc pipe chases? Cheap and neat.
Make em much bigger dia. than you think you'll need. For gosh sakes used
the tinned ancor marine grade wire, and marine grade adhesive-shrink
waterproof terminals.
Nav lights... You need port and starboard sidelights (or a combo) plus a
stern light which should be low for sailing. AND a white masthead
(steaming) light facing the forward 112.5 degrees, which does not have
to be at the top of the mast, but it does need to be at least a meter (I
think) above the sidelights for use when under power.. A sailboat under
power IS a powerboat. The anchor light is another additional light.
You could go with a masthead tricolor. Big bucks, wiring up the mast is
tougher to do and maintain. Also, if you go out on the Bay at night
you'll notice a tricolor on the masthead of a small boat does not stand
out as well as deck mounted nav lights.....
Anchor light... can be stowed below and hoisted on a halyard when
necessary. Davis makes a nice low amp (0.074A) auto off in daylight
"Mini Mega Light" with a 12v lighter plug. They claim a 1000 continuous
hours on an 80Ah battery. Visible 2 nm, but not USCG approved as an
official anchor light..
As nice as solar sounds it's much easier and cheaper to take the battery
home and charge it up. (Remember that non leaking, no-spill, non fuming,
ok to lay it on it's side gel battery?)
120volt and salt air/water is not a good combo. Don't you lose a lot of
juice going through an inverter? How much light do you need in that
cabin? And how big is that TV? There are small low draw 12v TV's out there.
Bilge pump... Tough decision, you'd need something pretty big, with a
dependable switch and a good battery that was mounted high to keep up
with much of a hull breach, then how long would that battery last?. A
small slow leak would just let water slosh around as there is not a sump
area for the water to collect into. By the time she was down enough for
the pump to do much, I'd think someone at the marina (or you if you were
aboard) would notice... So, Idaknow...
So much to decide............
Good luck,
Rick
Bruce Hallman wrote:
Batteries... I'vehad good luck with gel batteries. Yes, I know they cost
more and there are special charging requirements, but .... they don't
spill, leak, or fume, very nice as I assume you'll be living "in" the
battery compartment. They are very tolerant of long term non-use, low
temperature storage, and are vibration resistant. Very easy to stow away
a second backup battery that you can swap out when the juice goes down.
Wiring chase .. Are you building in pvc pipe chases? Cheap and neat.
Make em much bigger dia. than you think you'll need. For gosh sakes used
the tinned ancor marine grade wire, and marine grade adhesive-shrink
waterproof terminals.
Nav lights... You need port and starboard sidelights (or a combo) plus a
stern light which should be low for sailing. AND a white masthead
(steaming) light facing the forward 112.5 degrees, which does not have
to be at the top of the mast, but it does need to be at least a meter (I
think) above the sidelights for use when under power.. A sailboat under
power IS a powerboat. The anchor light is another additional light.
You could go with a masthead tricolor. Big bucks, wiring up the mast is
tougher to do and maintain. Also, if you go out on the Bay at night
you'll notice a tricolor on the masthead of a small boat does not stand
out as well as deck mounted nav lights.....
Anchor light... can be stowed below and hoisted on a halyard when
necessary. Davis makes a nice low amp (0.074A) auto off in daylight
"Mini Mega Light" with a 12v lighter plug. They claim a 1000 continuous
hours on an 80Ah battery. Visible 2 nm, but not USCG approved as an
official anchor light..
As nice as solar sounds it's much easier and cheaper to take the battery
home and charge it up. (Remember that non leaking, no-spill, non fuming,
ok to lay it on it's side gel battery?)
120volt and salt air/water is not a good combo. Don't you lose a lot of
juice going through an inverter? How much light do you need in that
cabin? And how big is that TV? There are small low draw 12v TV's out there.
Bilge pump... Tough decision, you'd need something pretty big, with a
dependable switch and a good battery that was mounted high to keep up
with much of a hull breach, then how long would that battery last?. A
small slow leak would just let water slosh around as there is not a sump
area for the water to collect into. By the time she was down enough for
the pump to do much, I'd think someone at the marina (or you if you were
aboard) would notice... So, Idaknow...
So much to decide............
Good luck,
Rick
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> I am beginning to think through the wiring[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> for my Micro Navigator project, [Before I
> cover up every wiring chase.]
>
> As I plan on having the boat 'wired' for
> comfort, two RV batteries, charged
> with one (or two) 50 watt photovoltaic cells...
> ...with an AC converter. So I can have a TV
> for watching SF Giants games in McCovey Cove
> waiting for the next Barry Bonds splash hit.
>
> Pricing light fixtures, 110V florescent bulbs
> and fixtures are cheaper by a factor of 10 than
> the 12V florescent light fixtures. Would I be
> nuts to have 110V lighting circuits in the boat?
>
> Also, I am guessing that installing an automatic
> bilge pump would be cheap insurance. Anyone
> have ideas and suggestions about this?
>
> As for navigation lights, I need port, starboard, stern light
> and an anchor light on top of the main mast, right?
>
> Does the stern light belong on top of the mizzen mast, or on an
> independent light pole on the stern?
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Bruce try to stay away of 120V on your boat unless you have 120V at
dockside then get a big bilge pump for those extended times away from
the boat. See f you can find a new wrecked RV trailer for all the
electrical systems. Then you can have dual power lights and a circuit
box to die for. You may even be able to save the frame to make a boat
trailer. You can buy them for a song because most scrap dealers think
they are more work than profit.
With all the 12V devices out there now why would you need AC on your
boat. I buy fuel for my pickup at a Pilot truck stop and they have
everything you could imagine for trucker to run on 12V DC. I even saw
a 12V deep fryer. can't you imagine some guy cruising down I-5 making
French fries in his 18 wheeler! I even saw some 12V white LED cab
lights that all you have to do is connect the wires. They even have
12V color TV/VCR's with radios so you can get the play by play on
KGO.
You also can go the route of have a portable gen set. I have a small
Honda that measures about 20" X 15" X 12" with the handle it looks
like a tool box but it can charge 12V DC batteries and it also puts
out 120 V AC for lights and a TV ON the lake here when I would go
fishing I could just use my trolling motor and when it was time to go
home I would hook up the Honda on the 12V side and run at full power
all the way home. It uses to much gas though about every ten hours
you have to add a quart and check the oil.
John
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman <brucehallman@y...>"
<brucehallman@y...> wrote:
dockside then get a big bilge pump for those extended times away from
the boat. See f you can find a new wrecked RV trailer for all the
electrical systems. Then you can have dual power lights and a circuit
box to die for. You may even be able to save the frame to make a boat
trailer. You can buy them for a song because most scrap dealers think
they are more work than profit.
With all the 12V devices out there now why would you need AC on your
boat. I buy fuel for my pickup at a Pilot truck stop and they have
everything you could imagine for trucker to run on 12V DC. I even saw
a 12V deep fryer. can't you imagine some guy cruising down I-5 making
French fries in his 18 wheeler! I even saw some 12V white LED cab
lights that all you have to do is connect the wires. They even have
12V color TV/VCR's with radios so you can get the play by play on
KGO.
You also can go the route of have a portable gen set. I have a small
Honda that measures about 20" X 15" X 12" with the handle it looks
like a tool box but it can charge 12V DC batteries and it also puts
out 120 V AC for lights and a TV ON the lake here when I would go
fishing I could just use my trolling motor and when it was time to go
home I would hook up the Honda on the 12V side and run at full power
all the way home. It uses to much gas though about every ten hours
you have to add a quart and check the oil.
John
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman <brucehallman@y...>"
<brucehallman@y...> wrote:
> I am beginning to think through the wiring
> for my Micro Navigator project, [Before I
> cover up every wiring chase.]
>
> As I plan on having the boat 'wired' for
> comfort, two RV batteries, charged
> with one (or two) 50 watt photovoltaic cells...
> ...with an AC converter. So I can have a TV
> for watching SF Giants games in McCovey Cove
> waiting for the next Barry Bonds splash hit.
>
> Pricing light fixtures, 110V florescent bulbs
> and fixtures are cheaper by a factor of 10 than
> the 12V florescent light fixtures. Would I be
> nuts to have 110V lighting circuits in the boat?
>
> Also, I am guessing that installing an automatic
> bilge pump would be cheap insurance. Anyone
> have ideas and suggestions about this?
>
> As for navigation lights, I need port, starboard, stern light
> and an anchor light on top of the main mast, right?
>
> Does the stern light belong on top of the mizzen mast, or on an
> independent light pole on the stern?
<As for navigation lights, I need port, starboard, stern light and an
anchor light on top of the main mast, right? Does the stern light
belong on top of the mizzen mast, or on an independent light pole on
the stern?>
Port and Starboard can be one combination light. On my Chebacco I put
the anchor light at the top of the mizzen to allow easier
maintenance; my stern light is at deck level at the transom.
<Would I be nuts to have 110V lighting circuits in the boat?>
The greater complexity and cost of an inverter plus the danger of
110VAC easily outweighs the cost of the 12 VDC lamps.
Paul
anchor light on top of the main mast, right? Does the stern light
belong on top of the mizzen mast, or on an independent light pole on
the stern?>
Port and Starboard can be one combination light. On my Chebacco I put
the anchor light at the top of the mizzen to allow easier
maintenance; my stern light is at deck level at the transom.
<Would I be nuts to have 110V lighting circuits in the boat?>
The greater complexity and cost of an inverter plus the danger of
110VAC easily outweighs the cost of the 12 VDC lamps.
Paul
2/5/2003 1:44:03 PM, "Bruce Hallman <brucehallman@...>" <brucehallman@...> wrote:
12V lighting is generally a rip-off. However, I found a place in AZ that carries electronic ballasted 12V lights for a fraction
of what the RV suppliers charge. Tryhttp://www.solar-electric.com/
The electronic ballast lights are easier on the eyes, quieter and more reliable than conventional magnetic ballast
lamps. These use regular bulbs. Also, there is no difference in quality or reliability between 12V and 120V as long as
you stick with electronic. This is not the case with mag ballast. All the new 120V screw-in florescent bulbs have
electronic ballasts. These would be my first choice if I were using 120V.
The only caviat with automatic bilge pumps is that you must use a reliable switch or you will end up with either a dead
battery or sunken vessel. Practical Sailor Magazine tests the various switches occasionally and is probably the best
source for current information. Previous tests have shown that function and price are not related.
Doug
>Pricing light fixtures, 110V florescent bulbsBruce;
>and fixtures are cheaper by a factor of 10 than
>the 12V florescent light fixtures. Would I be
>nuts to have 110V lighting circuits in the boat?
>
12V lighting is generally a rip-off. However, I found a place in AZ that carries electronic ballasted 12V lights for a fraction
of what the RV suppliers charge. Tryhttp://www.solar-electric.com/
The electronic ballast lights are easier on the eyes, quieter and more reliable than conventional magnetic ballast
lamps. These use regular bulbs. Also, there is no difference in quality or reliability between 12V and 120V as long as
you stick with electronic. This is not the case with mag ballast. All the new 120V screw-in florescent bulbs have
electronic ballasts. These would be my first choice if I were using 120V.
The only caviat with automatic bilge pumps is that you must use a reliable switch or you will end up with either a dead
battery or sunken vessel. Practical Sailor Magazine tests the various switches occasionally and is probably the best
source for current information. Previous tests have shown that function and price are not related.
Doug
Bruce:
I have a 55 watt solar panel, a deep cycle battery, 12 volt florescent fixtures and a 120 vac one on my Caprice. I have found that one battery is all we have ever needed for just lights. If you were going to use anchor lights all night for several days with little sunshine for recharging, you might want the additional battery.
The 12 volt fixtures are not only expensive, they don't work well. Essentially, each one of them has it's own inverter to boost the voltage, and they are subject to breakdowns. I think it is better to have one inverter, and several 120 volt fixtures. Remember that the light emitted is relative to the wattage. The 12 volt jobs put out little light relative to the smallest of kitchen fixtures which are very bright indeed.
Chuck
I have a 55 watt solar panel, a deep cycle battery, 12 volt florescent fixtures and a 120 vac one on my Caprice. I have found that one battery is all we have ever needed for just lights. If you were going to use anchor lights all night for several days with little sunshine for recharging, you might want the additional battery.
The 12 volt fixtures are not only expensive, they don't work well. Essentially, each one of them has it's own inverter to boost the voltage, and they are subject to breakdowns. I think it is better to have one inverter, and several 120 volt fixtures. Remember that the light emitted is relative to the wattage. The 12 volt jobs put out little light relative to the smallest of kitchen fixtures which are very bright indeed.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman <brucehallman@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: [bolger] Bilge pump, wiring/voltage questions.
I am beginning to think through the wiring
for my Micro Navigator project, [Before I
cover up every wiring chase.]
As I plan on having the boat 'wired' for
comfort, two RV batteries, charged
with one (or two) 50 watt photovoltaic cells...
...with an AC converter. So I can have a TV
for watching SF Giants games in McCovey Cove
waiting for the next Barry Bonds splash hit.
Pricing light fixtures, 110V florescent bulbs
and fixtures are cheaper by a factor of 10 than
the 12V florescent light fixtures. Would I be
nuts to have 110V lighting circuits in the boat?
Also, I am guessing that installing an automatic
bilge pump would be cheap insurance. Anyone
have ideas and suggestions about this?
As for navigation lights, I need port, starboard, stern light
and an anchor light on top of the main mast, right?
Does the stern light belong on top of the mizzen mast, or on an
independent light pole on the stern?
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am beginning to think through the wiring
for my Micro Navigator project, [Before I
cover up every wiring chase.]
As I plan on having the boat 'wired' for
comfort, two RV batteries, charged
with one (or two) 50 watt photovoltaic cells...
...with an AC converter. So I can have a TV
for watching SF Giants games in McCovey Cove
waiting for the next Barry Bonds splash hit.
Pricing light fixtures, 110V florescent bulbs
and fixtures are cheaper by a factor of 10 than
the 12V florescent light fixtures. Would I be
nuts to have 110V lighting circuits in the boat?
Also, I am guessing that installing an automatic
bilge pump would be cheap insurance. Anyone
have ideas and suggestions about this?
As for navigation lights, I need port, starboard, stern light
and an anchor light on top of the main mast, right?
Does the stern light belong on top of the mizzen mast, or on an
independent light pole on the stern?
for my Micro Navigator project, [Before I
cover up every wiring chase.]
As I plan on having the boat 'wired' for
comfort, two RV batteries, charged
with one (or two) 50 watt photovoltaic cells...
...with an AC converter. So I can have a TV
for watching SF Giants games in McCovey Cove
waiting for the next Barry Bonds splash hit.
Pricing light fixtures, 110V florescent bulbs
and fixtures are cheaper by a factor of 10 than
the 12V florescent light fixtures. Would I be
nuts to have 110V lighting circuits in the boat?
Also, I am guessing that installing an automatic
bilge pump would be cheap insurance. Anyone
have ideas and suggestions about this?
As for navigation lights, I need port, starboard, stern light
and an anchor light on top of the main mast, right?
Does the stern light belong on top of the mizzen mast, or on an
independent light pole on the stern?