Re: Motor vs. Sail
Hi,
For those of us who don't get MAIB, could you briefly describe the
upgrades? Thanks.
Daniel Pike
Tromso Norway
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@h...>"
<bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
For those of us who don't get MAIB, could you briefly describe the
upgrades? Thanks.
Daniel Pike
Tromso Norway
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@h...>"
<bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> Has anyone suggested Phil's Fast Motor Dalior design, with therecent
> upgrades in MAIB she's becomeing quite a useful design. I've beenon
> Bob Cushings, and the range of operating options is staggering.Put.
> puting, silentlt running or reaching, or waterskiing at 30 knots!All
> in a homebuilt wooden boat, mind.
>
> Brucre Hector
Has anyone suggested Phil's Fast Motor Dalior design, with the recent
upgrades in MAIB she's becomeing quite a useful design. I've been on
Bob Cushings, and the range of operating options is staggering. Put.
puting, silentlt running or reaching, or waterskiing at 30 knots! All
in a homebuilt wooden boat, mind.
Brucre Hector
upgrades in MAIB she's becomeing quite a useful design. I've been on
Bob Cushings, and the range of operating options is staggering. Put.
puting, silentlt running or reaching, or waterskiing at 30 knots! All
in a homebuilt wooden boat, mind.
Brucre Hector
There have actually been at least 3 of these things built. Two of
them were built as motorboats and never got the sailing rig. The
last one I saw in a recent Woodenboat "Launchings", did have the
sailing rig and was shown under sail. I think it was in Germany.
The two motor versions ended up with a lot more power than Mr Bolger
envisioned, I think around 90 hp. They did not perform well with the
40 hp envisioned. I corresponded briefly with a guy who built one,
and he said the 40 hp would not really put it on plane.
I think this one is actually quite a nice motorboat but probably not
much of a sailboat.
Daniel Pike,
Tromso Norway.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Vince and Mary Ann Chew <vachew@v...>
wrote:
them were built as motorboats and never got the sailing rig. The
last one I saw in a recent Woodenboat "Launchings", did have the
sailing rig and was shown under sail. I think it was in Germany.
The two motor versions ended up with a lot more power than Mr Bolger
envisioned, I think around 90 hp. They did not perform well with the
40 hp envisioned. I corresponded briefly with a guy who built one,
and he said the 40 hp would not really put it on plane.
I think this one is actually quite a nice motorboat but probably not
much of a sailboat.
Daniel Pike,
Tromso Norway.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Vince and Mary Ann Chew <vachew@v...>
wrote:
> I haven't seen any mention in these posts of Bolger's design "Fastsingle
> Motorsailer". It's 22'7" X 8' X 9", uses a dipping lug sail and
> leeboard. It is the second version. The first one, built by BillMcKibben in
> Victoria B.C. would make 50 miles in 3 hours with a 35hp Honda.The new
> design should be even faster. The cabin looks quite comfortable.It is
> described in BOATS WITH AN OPEN MIND.
>
> Vince
I haven't seen any mention in these posts of Bolger's design "Fast
Motorsailer". It's 22'7" X 8' X 9", uses a dipping lug sail and single
leeboard. It is the second version. The first one, built by Bill McKibben in
Victoria B.C. would make 50 miles in 3 hours with a 35hp Honda. The new
design should be even faster. The cabin looks quite comfortable. It is
described in BOATS WITH AN OPEN MIND.
Vince
Motorsailer". It's 22'7" X 8' X 9", uses a dipping lug sail and single
leeboard. It is the second version. The first one, built by Bill McKibben in
Victoria B.C. would make 50 miles in 3 hours with a 35hp Honda. The new
design should be even faster. The cabin looks quite comfortable. It is
described in BOATS WITH AN OPEN MIND.
Vince
> Honestly, the only reason I can think of is fashion.I completely agree. One thing I don't like about most modern
motorsailers is that the rig is too complex. Who needs a complete
ketch rig with all the details. I really like the Bolger concept for
a 30 motorsailer which looks like the thing that Micro is the micro
version of, i.e. it is like Micro grown up to 30'.
I don't need a cargo hold, but I like the idea of the deck space in
the middle of the boat.
See picture in Bolger2 files, under MS Cargo Boat.
Peter
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/MS%20Cargo%20Boat/Cargo%
20MS30.gif
>not
> I think the idea that a motorboat and a sailboat being opposite is
> entirely accurate. It is easy for us to put them on two sides ofsome
> sort of spectrum, and easy to talk about hull forms, stabilitycurves,
> etc. But really, I think there is room for a differentinterpretation.
>I think multihulls actualy have this happening, though to get it
happening so that you have something like a transformer is perhaps a
little more challenging. Low resistance makes it possible to use a
small motor, which isn't a drag during sailing. There are a number
of tris that can be configured with just a change in floats to go
right down to canal size, motor accross the pacific, or sail around
the worlds at speed. You can get that in something other than a
multihull, but you can't get it in 3-4000 pounds, with the building
that implies.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "robby plunkett" <robbylplunkett@h...>
wrote:
to sleep :)
I think the idea that a motorboat and a sailboat being opposite is not
entirely accurate. It is easy for us to put them on two sides of some
sort of spectrum, and easy to talk about hull forms, stability curves,
etc. But really, I think there is room for a different interpretation.
A Motorsailer could be built that performed almost as well as a
sailboat of similiar configuration, and almost as well as a motorboat
in the same vein. You just have to get over the normal way of thinking
about it. Once you get into slightly oversized, deck hinged masts you
can reduce windage a great deal by dropping the masts if you need pure
power into a blow. But, if you overcanvas a bit, you can get enough up
there to overcome the xtra weight of fuel and the larger motor. Will
she point with a racer? Not on your life! But I'd bet that you won't
mind motoring up into the wind with 80 horses under your feet.
And sails really have the potential to help out a motorboat. You get a
great deal of steadying, as well as xtra miles made good out of a
decent set of working sails. And an absolutely foolproof 'get home'
system. So why the heck do you rarely see sails on long range powerboats?
Honestly, the only reason I can think of is fashion. I really don't
like the Nordhaven style of thinking.. big fat boats that burn huge
amounts of fuel. Add on active stabilizers for even more fuel burn.
No, Ill take a slim profile, easy pushing hull shape and a sail or two
anyday I think. Heck, why not SAIL the thing once in awhile for some
peace and quiet? :)
--T
wrote:
> i'd go for the motorsailer. it may not be the best of either but itis more
> versatile.Ok.. Ill toss two cents in, considering I am having problems getting
to sleep :)
I think the idea that a motorboat and a sailboat being opposite is not
entirely accurate. It is easy for us to put them on two sides of some
sort of spectrum, and easy to talk about hull forms, stability curves,
etc. But really, I think there is room for a different interpretation.
A Motorsailer could be built that performed almost as well as a
sailboat of similiar configuration, and almost as well as a motorboat
in the same vein. You just have to get over the normal way of thinking
about it. Once you get into slightly oversized, deck hinged masts you
can reduce windage a great deal by dropping the masts if you need pure
power into a blow. But, if you overcanvas a bit, you can get enough up
there to overcome the xtra weight of fuel and the larger motor. Will
she point with a racer? Not on your life! But I'd bet that you won't
mind motoring up into the wind with 80 horses under your feet.
And sails really have the potential to help out a motorboat. You get a
great deal of steadying, as well as xtra miles made good out of a
decent set of working sails. And an absolutely foolproof 'get home'
system. So why the heck do you rarely see sails on long range powerboats?
Honestly, the only reason I can think of is fashion. I really don't
like the Nordhaven style of thinking.. big fat boats that burn huge
amounts of fuel. Add on active stabilizers for even more fuel burn.
No, Ill take a slim profile, easy pushing hull shape and a sail or two
anyday I think. Heck, why not SAIL the thing once in awhile for some
peace and quiet? :)
--T
i'd go for the motorsailer. it may not be the best of either but it is more
versatile. although there was an article about a macgregor sail boat with
some sort of motor that would run like a powerboat. what about a sailboat
with a more than adequate outboard? checkout nimbleboat.com site,some may
not be wood, but very nice. robby
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
versatile. although there was an article about a macgregor sail boat with
some sort of motor that would run like a powerboat. what about a sailboat
with a more than adequate outboard? checkout nimbleboat.com site,some may
not be wood, but very nice. robby
>From:jhkohnen@..._________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [bolger] Motor vs. Sail
>Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:16:53 -0800
>
>
>Motorboats are boring, but they're handy for getting you somewhere
>particular
>in a set amount of time. Sailboats are fun and interesting, but it's
>sometimes
>hard to get to a particular destination-- but who cares? If you just want
>to
>have fun on the water build a sailboat, but if getting somewhere is what's
>important you'll have to settle for a motorboat. But who says you have to
>have
>just one boat? <g>
>
>On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:53:53 -0800, Ken wrote:
> > Not trying to open a can of worms, but having done only a little of both
>of
> > them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn between
>building a
> > sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal
>confusion?
>
>--
> John <jkohnen@...>
>http://www.boat-links.com/
>I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal.
> If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle...
> they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for
> them by gasoline. <Theodore Roosevelt>
>
>
>
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Ken ,
Most sailboats have motors but not many motorboats have sails;)
Todd
Most sailboats have motors but not many motorboats have sails;)
Todd
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <renueden@e...> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the wonderfull replies! Lots to think about,
and,
> (probably), lots of boats to build!
>
> Ken
Motorboats are boring, but they're handy for getting you somewhere particular
in a set amount of time. Sailboats are fun and interesting, but it's sometimes
hard to get to a particular destination-- but who cares? If you just want to
have fun on the water build a sailboat, but if getting somewhere is what's
important you'll have to settle for a motorboat. But who says you have to have
just one boat? <g>
in a set amount of time. Sailboats are fun and interesting, but it's sometimes
hard to get to a particular destination-- but who cares? If you just want to
have fun on the water build a sailboat, but if getting somewhere is what's
important you'll have to settle for a motorboat. But who says you have to have
just one boat? <g>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:53:53 -0800, Ken wrote:
> Not trying to open a can of worms, but having done only a little of both of
> them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn between building a
> sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal confusion?
--
John <jkohnen@...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal.
If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle...
they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for
them by gasoline. <Theodore Roosevelt>
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "joe_bftzplk <stewtone@m...>"
<stewtone@m...> wrote:
row-boat.com/ Martin Marine, the Alden Shell people, appledore pod
people (1/3rd E48), I think they charter it, or might tell you who
does. Maybe they have some pictures. If you look at the Appledore,
it is basicaly that scaled up. There was a biggish article in Wooden
Boat. Check their back issues index.
The thing about this is that it might cruise a bit like say a Wyo,
but with a yacht interior (so less space), but with rougher water
capability. So this opens up coastal cruising up Maine etc...
Cheers
<stewtone@m...> wrote:
> > I like the idea of the Martin Energy 48. Only one built as faras
> Ithat
> > know, so not many to agree with me. Basicaly a long thin boat
> > would operate without generating much of a bow wave. Sortacruised
> > like a sailboat, without burning all that much gas, or having toI don't know of any pictures. If you slide over to http://www.alden-
> > worry about wind.
>
> Any info available on-line? I did a quick Yahoo search and couldn't
> find it.
>
> Chris Stewart
row-boat.com/ Martin Marine, the Alden Shell people, appledore pod
people (1/3rd E48), I think they charter it, or might tell you who
does. Maybe they have some pictures. If you look at the Appledore,
it is basicaly that scaled up. There was a biggish article in Wooden
Boat. Check their back issues index.
The thing about this is that it might cruise a bit like say a Wyo,
but with a yacht interior (so less space), but with rougher water
capability. So this opens up coastal cruising up Maine etc...
Cheers
Thanks everyone for the wonderfull replies! Lots to think about, and,
(probably), lots of boats to build!
Ken
(probably), lots of boats to build!
Ken
I know the feeling Ken.
For most of my adult life I only owned paddle powered boats, three
kayaks and a canoe or two, all factory built.
About 15 years ago I decided to try my hand at building a sailboat
and after accumulating a pile of plans and brochures I bought a Shell
Swifty 14 kit. Having never built a boat I liked the kit idea and the
boat was not only attractive but Fred Shell said it could accomodate
a small motor also. The kit went together without a hitch and the
boat was everything Fred advertised. The only problem was that
sailing on the lakes around here varied between terminally boring
(not enough wind) or terrifying (from the power boats). My wife
decided she'd had enough of sailing.
Next up was a Bolger pirogue (the CSD version) stretched a bit. While
I put on the misc things needed to accomodate a sail we've only used
it with electric motor, oars or paddles for poking around rivers or
protected coastal waters. Love it.
Needing something to tackle the currents of our coastal rivers, last
year we bought a dory skiff (Holby Bristol Skiff) with 30 HP 4-
stroke. It goes anywhere (my wife loves nature photography so we
spend a lot of time in shallows and near the shore). Great boat even
if it is fiberglass.
I still want a sail boat but I've decided it has to be real stable,
be able to operate safely in coastal areas and have a small motor on
about equal footing with the sail. In the late 80s I was attracted to
Bolger's Storm Petrel and that is what I now have under construction.
From what I understand from the couple of people who have sailed
Storm Petrel it's a so-so sail boat but has some nice qualities. I
don't think I'll be disappointed.
As for the Swifty, it's gotten a makeover to a motor-sailer with a
cuddy cabin, 5 hp motor and smaller sprit rig. It will do nicely as a
river and estuary shore hugger.
I guess the answer to your question is simply that you will probably
end up building a couple (or more) boats. Just make your first
project a modest one so that you can get it on the water and enjoy it
while figuring out what you want to build next.
Steve Hansen
For most of my adult life I only owned paddle powered boats, three
kayaks and a canoe or two, all factory built.
About 15 years ago I decided to try my hand at building a sailboat
and after accumulating a pile of plans and brochures I bought a Shell
Swifty 14 kit. Having never built a boat I liked the kit idea and the
boat was not only attractive but Fred Shell said it could accomodate
a small motor also. The kit went together without a hitch and the
boat was everything Fred advertised. The only problem was that
sailing on the lakes around here varied between terminally boring
(not enough wind) or terrifying (from the power boats). My wife
decided she'd had enough of sailing.
Next up was a Bolger pirogue (the CSD version) stretched a bit. While
I put on the misc things needed to accomodate a sail we've only used
it with electric motor, oars or paddles for poking around rivers or
protected coastal waters. Love it.
Needing something to tackle the currents of our coastal rivers, last
year we bought a dory skiff (Holby Bristol Skiff) with 30 HP 4-
stroke. It goes anywhere (my wife loves nature photography so we
spend a lot of time in shallows and near the shore). Great boat even
if it is fiberglass.
I still want a sail boat but I've decided it has to be real stable,
be able to operate safely in coastal areas and have a small motor on
about equal footing with the sail. In the late 80s I was attracted to
Bolger's Storm Petrel and that is what I now have under construction.
From what I understand from the couple of people who have sailed
Storm Petrel it's a so-so sail boat but has some nice qualities. I
don't think I'll be disappointed.
As for the Swifty, it's gotten a makeover to a motor-sailer with a
cuddy cabin, 5 hp motor and smaller sprit rig. It will do nicely as a
river and estuary shore hugger.
I guess the answer to your question is simply that you will probably
end up building a couple (or more) boats. Just make your first
project a modest one so that you can get it on the water and enjoy it
while figuring out what you want to build next.
Steve Hansen
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <renueden@e...> wrote:
> Not trying to open a can of worms, but having done only a little of
both of
> them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn between
building a
> sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal
confusion?
>
> Thanks,
> Ken Locarnini
> I like the idea of the Martin Energy 48. Only one built as far asI
> know, so not many to agree with me. Basicaly a long thin boat thatAny info available on-line? I did a quick Yahoo search and couldn't
> would operate without generating much of a bow wave. Sorta cruised
> like a sailboat, without burning all that much gas, or having to
> worry about wind.
find it.
Chris Stewart
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <renueden@e...> wrote:
are spaced fairly far apart, sail can get you in and out of there.
Baring that, power can be a lot more practical. Of course, not
boating at all is a lot more practical. I think a lot of the
motoring under sail stuff comes from people in a rush. As has been
metioned, when you need to get home, you crank up the engine.
On an endless cruise, however, if you had a boat with good ghosting
pottential, why would you want to listen to the anvil choir? Have
the best of both worlds with a multihull. Hit 20 knots without
planing, and burning big holes in your wallet, or cruise to Hawaii
with an outboard. Rigged for sail go faster than the V hulls in
rough water, or ghost along when the breeze can't be felt.
I like the idea of the Martin Energy 48. Only one built as far as I
know, so not many to agree with me. Basicaly a long thin boat that
would operate without generating much of a bow wave. Sorta cruised
like a sailboat, without burning all that much gas, or having to
worry about wind.
> Not trying to open a can of worms, but having done only a little ofboth of
> them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn betweenbuilding a
> sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normalconfusion?
>There still are a bunch of places in the world where the gas stations
> Thanks,
> Ken Locarnini
are spaced fairly far apart, sail can get you in and out of there.
Baring that, power can be a lot more practical. Of course, not
boating at all is a lot more practical. I think a lot of the
motoring under sail stuff comes from people in a rush. As has been
metioned, when you need to get home, you crank up the engine.
On an endless cruise, however, if you had a boat with good ghosting
pottential, why would you want to listen to the anvil choir? Have
the best of both worlds with a multihull. Hit 20 knots without
planing, and burning big holes in your wallet, or cruise to Hawaii
with an outboard. Rigged for sail go faster than the V hulls in
rough water, or ghost along when the breeze can't be felt.
I like the idea of the Martin Energy 48. Only one built as far as I
know, so not many to agree with me. Basicaly a long thin boat that
would operate without generating much of a bow wave. Sorta cruised
like a sailboat, without burning all that much gas, or having to
worry about wind.
the intention to build more than one boat is usually high, the wallet and/or the wife's approval usually not as high. i built a 12 ft skiff, and want to go bigger and better(I hate to row, I want a power boat now), but now the wife says...You already have a boat, why do you need another one.......She just doesn't understand. so if you have the wallet, and the wife's approval, I'd say....build both. deciding to which one to build first now becomes your main question.
Aaron
---------------------------------
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Aaron
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ken, it is perfectly normal to want both types. To my wife's chagrin
I own a yard full of both sail and power boats plus some large RV
trailers. Some purists from both sides will claim any part of the
other is like going to the dark side. IMO they take their boating to
almost a religious level.
I want to build a motor sailor in the 70'+ range so I can be a snow
bird here on the west coast. My wife has been convinced that I'm not
crazy and I have been planning for some time. You can have your cake
and eat it also.
So yes you are normal and you have no reason to worry. Follow your
heart's desire and build something that can accommodate both sail and
power. On the other hand build two boats or more. Once you get the
building bug who knows how many boats you'll have.
John
I own a yard full of both sail and power boats plus some large RV
trailers. Some purists from both sides will claim any part of the
other is like going to the dark side. IMO they take their boating to
almost a religious level.
I want to build a motor sailor in the 70'+ range so I can be a snow
bird here on the west coast. My wife has been convinced that I'm not
crazy and I have been planning for some time. You can have your cake
and eat it also.
So yes you are normal and you have no reason to worry. Follow your
heart's desire and build something that can accommodate both sail and
power. On the other hand build two boats or more. Once you get the
building bug who knows how many boats you'll have.
John
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <renueden@e...> wrote:
> Not trying to open a can of worms, but having done only a little of
both of
> them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn between
building a
> sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal
confusion?
>
> Thanks,
> Ken Locarnini
2/15/2003 6:27:59 PM, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
a waste to have one. But then I suppose folks have to have something to go with their Gortex, yachting wave and $100
sunglasses.
Oh, sumbuddy slap me - I'm gettin downright cynical!
Doug
>Given the comparative discomfort of the average tupperware sailboat (like a cave full of obstacles) it would then seem
>I fly for a living over a prime summer cruising ground (SE Alaska). With all
>the sailboats I see during the summer underway, 2 in a whole season with the
>sails up would be a major event.
>
a waste to have one. But then I suppose folks have to have something to go with their Gortex, yachting wave and $100
sunglasses.
Oh, sumbuddy slap me - I'm gettin downright cynical!
Doug
I fly for a living over a prime summer cruising ground (SE Alaska). With all
the sailboats I see during the summer underway, 2 in a whole season with the
sails up would be a major event.
HJ
the sailboats I see during the summer underway, 2 in a whole season with the
sails up would be a major event.
HJ
> Not trying to open a can of worms, but having done only a little of both of
> them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn between building
> a sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal
> confusion?
>
> Thanks,
> Ken Locarnini
>
>
There are too many factors to consider, and too little known about your
situation to make a recommendation. I can only give you my experience.
I have owned a 23' wood sloop, then a 25'glass sloop and sailed, both racing
and cruising in northern Lakes Michigan and Huron, since 1965. Since we
became empty nesters, cruising has been just me and my bride -- single
handed sailing with a passenger. My wife likes "riding" in the sail boat,
but she gets annoyed when we change tacks just as she has gotten comfortable
in the cockpit. Also, she has sustained a few accidental elbow jabs while I
tailed the winches or hauled the halyards. There is also the aspect of being
"below" in most sailboat cabins. Sort of like being in the basement. (Some
Bolger designs such as Birdwatcher avoid this, However.)
Also, I would estimate that when cruising, we have spent almost as much time
under power with no wind, or wind right on the nose with a deadline to get
back to port as we have actually sailing. I have always been attracted to
the idea of river and canal cruising. We bareboated a narrowboat in England
for a week three years ago and enjoyed it very much.
So, I am building Dakota (power). Time will tell if I made the right choice.
I have high hopes of getting her launched next summer. Our goal is to do the
Great Loop of the eastern USA plus parts of Ontario and Quebec. We plan to
break the cruise into stages over a period of years -- joined by children
and/or grandchildren sometimes. We would like to spend some time in the
Tennessee and Cumberland Rivers for example.
Your situation may be completely unlike mine, but maybe you can use this as
a basis of comparison.
Vince
situation to make a recommendation. I can only give you my experience.
I have owned a 23' wood sloop, then a 25'glass sloop and sailed, both racing
and cruising in northern Lakes Michigan and Huron, since 1965. Since we
became empty nesters, cruising has been just me and my bride -- single
handed sailing with a passenger. My wife likes "riding" in the sail boat,
but she gets annoyed when we change tacks just as she has gotten comfortable
in the cockpit. Also, she has sustained a few accidental elbow jabs while I
tailed the winches or hauled the halyards. There is also the aspect of being
"below" in most sailboat cabins. Sort of like being in the basement. (Some
Bolger designs such as Birdwatcher avoid this, However.)
Also, I would estimate that when cruising, we have spent almost as much time
under power with no wind, or wind right on the nose with a deadline to get
back to port as we have actually sailing. I have always been attracted to
the idea of river and canal cruising. We bareboated a narrowboat in England
for a week three years ago and enjoyed it very much.
So, I am building Dakota (power). Time will tell if I made the right choice.
I have high hopes of getting her launched next summer. Our goal is to do the
Great Loop of the eastern USA plus parts of Ontario and Quebec. We plan to
break the cruise into stages over a period of years -- joined by children
and/or grandchildren sometimes. We would like to spend some time in the
Tennessee and Cumberland Rivers for example.
Your situation may be completely unlike mine, but maybe you can use this as
a basis of comparison.
Vince
Been there, done that. Built both types. There is no right answer to this
question, anyway.
We live in an area where sailing can be very frustrating, with light and
variable winds and lots of powerboat wakes. I don't think if I'd built a
sailboat we would have gotten nearly as much use out of it as we get with
the powerboat I built instead. I'm also of the opinion that a low power
powerboat is probably cheaper to build when you factor in the cost of the
rig and sails as well as the inevitable auxiliary engine.
question, anyway.
We live in an area where sailing can be very frustrating, with light and
variable winds and lots of powerboat wakes. I don't think if I'd built a
sailboat we would have gotten nearly as much use out of it as we get with
the powerboat I built instead. I'm also of the opinion that a low power
powerboat is probably cheaper to build when you factor in the cost of the
rig and sails as well as the inevitable auxiliary engine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <renueden@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: [bolger] Motor vs. Sail
| Not trying to open a can of worms, but having done only a little of both
of
| them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn between building
a
| sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal
confusion?
|
| Thanks,
| Ken Locarnini
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
| - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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|
There is only one answer. Build both, or build several, or buy some,
steal some, borrow some. But get more boats.
Not by way of bragging, as any boat owner knows, each boat subtracts
wealth, never the opposite. My fleet is a measure of the boat
building insanity, all are homemade, bought cheap or inherited
consists of: Power, 38' Houseboat (was a steal at 6 Gs Canadian), 16'
Diablo, 8' Skimmer, 8' Nymph and a 15' Seagull with the epoxy fillets
drying as I type. Paddle: 16' FG canoe (inherited), 13' Payson
Pirogue, 8' FG dinghy (want it?) and a 2/3 finished Micro cat ketch.
This of course is never enogh, witness two sets of plans for differnt
stitch and glue dorries, well know maddness about building a modular
airctaft carrier, the inkling to build something new with every issue
of MAIB that crosses my desk and my recent strating of a boat swap
group. If you can't own 'em all, you can at least try many of them
out.
All I know for sure, is that whichever one you acquire, will be the
wrong one, and then it starts all over again....
....now I've got to get back to the layups on that Seagull.
Bruce Hector
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freeboatexchange
steal some, borrow some. But get more boats.
Not by way of bragging, as any boat owner knows, each boat subtracts
wealth, never the opposite. My fleet is a measure of the boat
building insanity, all are homemade, bought cheap or inherited
consists of: Power, 38' Houseboat (was a steal at 6 Gs Canadian), 16'
Diablo, 8' Skimmer, 8' Nymph and a 15' Seagull with the epoxy fillets
drying as I type. Paddle: 16' FG canoe (inherited), 13' Payson
Pirogue, 8' FG dinghy (want it?) and a 2/3 finished Micro cat ketch.
This of course is never enogh, witness two sets of plans for differnt
stitch and glue dorries, well know maddness about building a modular
airctaft carrier, the inkling to build something new with every issue
of MAIB that crosses my desk and my recent strating of a boat swap
group. If you can't own 'em all, you can at least try many of them
out.
All I know for sure, is that whichever one you acquire, will be the
wrong one, and then it starts all over again....
....now I've got to get back to the layups on that Seagull.
Bruce Hector
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freeboatexchange
>> I am torn between building aMaybe you need a Pointy Skiff and a Surf. Both nice little boats, and
>> sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!?
>A final common observation is that anyone beginning a new hobby
>should begin with something cheap and simple. Then, when you have
>learned what you like, you can make a bigger investment.
you'd learn a lot about how easy it is to build boats. You can
certainly build one of each for very little money..
-D
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
> I am torn between building aMost people choosing a boat pick one for a specific activity that
> sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!?
they want to engage in: fishing, water skiing, sailboat racing,
cruising, etc. That usually helps to narrow it down a bit. I suppose
if the activity is "family recreation", it doesn't.
You want to think about the water that you have available. Narrow
water and strong currents tip the balance toward power.
A common observation is that power boaters use their boats to get
somewhere, but sail boaters use their boats to enjoy the trip. It's
an oversimplification, but it certainly has a germ of truth.
A final common observation is that anyone beginning a new hobby
should begin with something cheap and simple. Then, when you have
learned what you like, you can make a bigger investment.
Peter
I think its normal. It's just a matter of taste. I want a cruiser because i think a sail wiuld be to much work, but I want a sail because it adds to the look of the boat. on the other hand, a sail means that much more that you have to build into the boat. of course I have no experience with sails, and my motto has always been MORE POWER!
AARON
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AARON
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Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
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2/15/2003 11:53:53 AM, "Ken" <renueden@...> wrote:
My personal (biased) opinions: Don't make the decision based on economics. My early thoughts were that sail power
was always more economical, thus better for extended cruising. Add up the cost of sails, rigging and maintenance. You
will find it to be more than the cost of fuel for a similar hull shape. Engine maintenance is not significantly different either.
Engines that sit dormant in a damp bilge have more problems than those that are used.
Motorsailors offer a good comprimise. Finding a design that suits your taste is always the tough part.
Doug
> I am torn between building aDefinitely normal. It stems from the well known fact that all boats are a comprimise. You can't have it all in one boat.
>sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal confusion?
>
My personal (biased) opinions: Don't make the decision based on economics. My early thoughts were that sail power
was always more economical, thus better for extended cruising. Add up the cost of sails, rigging and maintenance. You
will find it to be more than the cost of fuel for a similar hull shape. Engine maintenance is not significantly different either.
Engines that sit dormant in a damp bilge have more problems than those that are used.
Motorsailors offer a good comprimise. Finding a design that suits your taste is always the tough part.
Doug
Not trying to open a can of worms, but having done only a little of both of
them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn between building a
sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal confusion?
Thanks,
Ken Locarnini
them, can anyone comment on their preferences? I am torn between building a
sailer or a motorcraft or a combination of both!? Is this normal confusion?
Thanks,
Ken Locarnini