Re: Payson's New Book
You get an autographed copy if you buy it directly from Dynamite here...
http://www.instantboats.com/books.htm
Jim
http://www.instantboats.com/books.htm
Jim
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > What new book? Enlighten me.
>
> "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson"
>
> ISBN-10: 0071472649
>
>http://www.amazon.com/dp/0071472649
>
I have to confess that though I am no obsessive compulsive, I
experienced the sanding zone you had mentioned this year. I have done
considerable extensive maintenance to a Pearson Triton that involved 350
sanding disks. When you first mentioned it my thought was "that crazy
Lenihan". I dislike sanding and the thought of getting into some kind of
sanding trance seemed bizarre. Part of it is building endurance and
strength, after awhile you kind of zone out and 5 hours can go by in a
flash leaving a satisfied feeling to go with the visual evidence that
you have done something. Where 20 min would get me tired at the
beginning, I can now hold the sander and vacuum hose overhead with one
hand for an hour. See
http://tritonclass.org/mir/144ta.html
for the results.
HJ
Peter Lenihan wrote:
experienced the sanding zone you had mentioned this year. I have done
considerable extensive maintenance to a Pearson Triton that involved 350
sanding disks. When you first mentioned it my thought was "that crazy
Lenihan". I dislike sanding and the thought of getting into some kind of
sanding trance seemed bizarre. Part of it is building endurance and
strength, after awhile you kind of zone out and 5 hours can go by in a
flash leaving a satisfied feeling to go with the visual evidence that
you have done something. Where 20 min would get me tired at the
beginning, I can now hold the sander and vacuum hose overhead with one
hand for an hour. See
http://tritonclass.org/mir/144ta.html
for the results.
HJ
Peter Lenihan wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> Peter
>>
>> Kinda thought there might be a launching of Windermere this
>>
> summer,
>
>> fall. Did I miss it?.
>>
>
>
>
>
> Nope,you didn't miss it Harry..........I missed it! :-) Always
> the optimist, I keep forgetting that real global warming has yet to
> kick in to produce palm trees along the beautiful St.Lawrence and,
> more importantly, I am always under-estimating just what a terrible
> time sink-hole it is to be a wee bit obsessive-compulsive.Thus,time
> marches on while I plug away daily and dream of a launching.LIFE IS
> GOOD! :-D
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan, hoping for a milder wnter then last years..........
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
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> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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>
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
the optimist, I keep forgetting that real global warming has yet to
kick in to produce palm trees along the beautiful St.Lawrence and,
more importantly, I am always under-estimating just what a terrible
time sink-hole it is to be a wee bit obsessive-compulsive.Thus,time
marches on while I plug away daily and dream of a launching.LIFE IS
GOOD! :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, hoping for a milder wnter then last years..........
>summer,
> Peter
>
> Kinda thought there might be a launching of Windermere this
> fall. Did I miss it?.Nope,you didn't miss it Harry..........I missed it! :-) Always
the optimist, I keep forgetting that real global warming has yet to
kick in to produce palm trees along the beautiful St.Lawrence and,
more importantly, I am always under-estimating just what a terrible
time sink-hole it is to be a wee bit obsessive-compulsive.Thus,time
marches on while I plug away daily and dream of a launching.LIFE IS
GOOD! :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, hoping for a milder wnter then last years..........
Peter
Kinda thought there might be a launching of Windermere this summer,
fall. Did I miss it?.
HJ
Peter Lenihan wrote:
Kinda thought there might be a launching of Windermere this summer,
fall. Did I miss it?.
HJ
Peter Lenihan wrote:
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
>> Of special interest in the book is Dynamite's explanation of the
>> 'Payson joint' method for edge joining sheets of plywood. In the
>> modern 'plywood' era, that joint technique is seminal, and reading
>> about it from the inventor (and seeing the photos of his technique)
>>
> is
>
>> worth the price of the book. IMO
>>
>
>
> Yup.What Bruce said :-) I used this method on my hull sides which can
> be seen here being assembled with the "Payson joint":
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/WINDERMERE%20Construction%
> 20photos/
>
> Check out pictures 03 through 10 for how it all went together on
> loooong "joints" :-)
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan
>
>
>
>
>
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
be seen here being assembled with the "Payson joint":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/WINDERMERE%20Construction%
20photos/
Check out pictures 03 through 10 for how it all went together on
loooong "joints" :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
>is
> Of special interest in the book is Dynamite's explanation of the
> 'Payson joint' method for edge joining sheets of plywood. In the
> modern 'plywood' era, that joint technique is seminal, and reading
> about it from the inventor (and seeing the photos of his technique)
> worth the price of the book. IMOYup.What Bruce said :-) I used this method on my hull sides which can
be seen here being assembled with the "Payson joint":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/WINDERMERE%20Construction%
20photos/
Check out pictures 03 through 10 for how it all went together on
loooong "joints" :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
>
Dynamite was building a new boat for his son when I visited and had a chance
to see one of his joints in the side of the new boat. Seems such a much a
better method than the other methods previously used. Very simple to dish
out the plywood surface at the joint and add an epoxy-glass span across this
area. Easier than a scarfed joint and allows a greater effective use of the
length of plywood while not forming a "knuckle" in a faired surface as a
back block-butted joint would.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:33 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Payson's New Book
Of special interest in the book is Dynamite's explanation of the
'Payson joint' method for edge joining sheets of plywood. In the
modern 'plywood' era, that joint technique is seminal, and reading
about it from the inventor (and seeing the photos of his technique) is
worth the price of the book. IMO
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to see one of his joints in the side of the new boat. Seems such a much a
better method than the other methods previously used. Very simple to dish
out the plywood surface at the joint and add an epoxy-glass span across this
area. Easier than a scarfed joint and allows a greater effective use of the
length of plywood while not forming a "knuckle" in a faired surface as a
back block-butted joint would.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:33 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Payson's New Book
Of special interest in the book is Dynamite's explanation of the
'Payson joint' method for edge joining sheets of plywood. In the
modern 'plywood' era, that joint technique is seminal, and reading
about it from the inventor (and seeing the photos of his technique) is
worth the price of the book. IMO
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Of special interest in the book is Dynamite's explanation of the
'Payson joint' method for edge joining sheets of plywood. In the
modern 'plywood' era, that joint technique is seminal, and reading
about it from the inventor (and seeing the photos of his technique) is
worth the price of the book. IMO
'Payson joint' method for edge joining sheets of plywood. In the
modern 'plywood' era, that joint technique is seminal, and reading
about it from the inventor (and seeing the photos of his technique) is
worth the price of the book. IMO
Exactly the problem we had. A small design flub, but worth warning new
builders about. We added on full length thwartships 1x2s and another
layer of 1/4" ply IIRC. They might have held up as spec'd with the
configuration change you mention.
Keep in mind the solid lumber planks will expand & contract more -
thus making it harder to keep finish on them. Not a big issue if she's
dry stored. Also, slightly thinner than the designed seat - therefore
sit you in a lower rowing position. That's usually not a great idea,
but might work well for one who's got a relatively long torso.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
"I am not afraid of storms for I am learning how to sail my ship"
Louisa May Alcott
*******************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
builders about. We added on full length thwartships 1x2s and another
layer of 1/4" ply IIRC. They might have held up as spec'd with the
configuration change you mention.
Keep in mind the solid lumber planks will expand & contract more -
thus making it harder to keep finish on them. Not a big issue if she's
dry stored. Also, slightly thinner than the designed seat - therefore
sit you in a lower rowing position. That's usually not a great idea,
but might work well for one who's got a relatively long torso.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
"I am not afraid of storms for I am learning how to sail my ship"
Louisa May Alcott
*******************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> > Tender as hell solo. Love the infinitely adjustable rowing thwarts.
> > Thwarts were too flimsy as drawn - we busted 2 almost immediately.
>
> So it's not just me! I've broken all three and have to keep patching
> them. The cure, which is obvious immediately after you break one, is
> to build them with the athwartship seat frames running the full width
> of the seat, and the longitudinal frame pieces cut to fit in between.
> The plans show this relationship reversed. It wouldn't hurt to use
> 3/8" or 1/2" ply for the seats, either, at least if you're using really
> inexpensive plywood like I did.
>
> Actually, I might replace mine with planks cut from a 2x12.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Hi David,
them. The cure, which is obvious immediately after you break one, is
to build them with the athwartship seat frames running the full width
of the seat, and the longitudinal frame pieces cut to fit in between.
The plans show this relationship reversed. It wouldn't hurt to use
3/8" or 1/2" ply for the seats, either, at least if you're using really
inexpensive plywood like I did.
Actually, I might replace mine with planks cut from a 2x12.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> Tender as hell solo. Love the infinitely adjustable rowing thwarts.So it's not just me! I've broken all three and have to keep patching
> Thwarts were too flimsy as drawn - we busted 2 almost immediately.
them. The cure, which is obvious immediately after you break one, is
to build them with the athwartship seat frames running the full width
of the seat, and the longitudinal frame pieces cut to fit in between.
The plans show this relationship reversed. It wouldn't hurt to use
3/8" or 1/2" ply for the seats, either, at least if you're using really
inexpensive plywood like I did.
Actually, I might replace mine with planks cut from a 2x12.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I had the great pleasure to visit with Dynamite at his shop in late August
of this year. One of the subjects we discussed was his new book and his
displeasure with the final product. The publisher International Marine's
editors are no longer sailors first and editors second. Since being bought
out, the editors have been replaced by a bunch of wonks that have no clue
about being out on the water. Dynamite stated that the editing was very
painful as he had to explain/fight over many simple things that would have
been obviously correct to someone with maritime experience. In the end, he
said the book was eviscerated and would probably be his last as he did not
want to go through this painful experience once again.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of this year. One of the subjects we discussed was his new book and his
displeasure with the final product. The publisher International Marine's
editors are no longer sailors first and editors second. Since being bought
out, the editors have been replaced by a bunch of wonks that have no clue
about being out on the water. Dynamite stated that the editing was very
painful as he had to explain/fight over many simple things that would have
been obviously correct to someone with maritime experience. In the end, he
said the book was eviscerated and would probably be his last as he did not
want to go through this painful experience once again.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >I own the other and I bought the new 'white covered' book because it has more than $20
> > This is a matter of personal opinion, I own the other Payson books,
> > and still think this one is a very good read.
>
purchase price of info and good reading.
I enjoy the idea of building a model to get the hang of how the full size boat goes together.
Don,
Broke the part that touches your buttpart <g>
Actually, I missed the day when the those chines were put in. I
believe they said that they attached them to the sides just prior to
attaching the sides to the frames. I'd suspect it'd work either way
just fine, though I'd be inclined toward your idea. Not that tight of
a curve to spring. We used 1X2's. When we did the gunwales (which have
a slightly tighter bend) they went on fairly easily.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" -- Bertrand Russell
*********
Broke the part that touches your buttpart <g>
Actually, I missed the day when the those chines were put in. I
believe they said that they attached them to the sides just prior to
attaching the sides to the frames. I'd suspect it'd work either way
just fine, though I'd be inclined toward your idea. Not that tight of
a curve to spring. We used 1X2's. When we did the gunwales (which have
a slightly tighter bend) they went on fairly easily.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" -- Bertrand Russell
*********
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Don Froese" <don.froese@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks David.
>
>
>
> Great photos of a beautiful boat. They are really helpful and
> inspirational. If I recall correctly, you used chine logs. Did you
> spring them in after the sides were attached to the frames?
>
>
>
> Also, when you say you broke the rowing thwarts, do you mean the 'seats'
> (as opposed to the longitudinal seat bearers)?
>
>
>
> Thanks very much.
Thanks David.
Great photos of a beautiful boat. They are really helpful and
inspirational. If I recall correctly, you used chine logs. Did you
spring them in after the sides were attached to the frames?
Also, when you say you broke the rowing thwarts, do you mean the 'seats'
(as opposed to the longitudinal seat bearers)?
Thanks very much.
________________________________
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of David
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
Don,
I helped teach a boatbuilding class last summer where we built a Long
Light Dory. If you'd like to see the fotos, here's a link to some
unsorted shots on my flickr page.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbordg/1548691304/
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbordg/1548691304/>
If you search the archives, you'll find 169 messages on the topic of
this boat. Some are bound to be useful. My quick thoughts: it's a
quick build. It's a beautiful, beautiful boat. Attracts lots of
attention at the dock and on the water. Rows really slick with 2 or 3.
Tender as hell solo. Love the infinitely adjustable rowing thwarts.
Thwarts were too flimsy as drawn - we busted 2 almost immediately.
Have Fun,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"You know everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects" -- Will
Rogers
***********
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> , "Don
Froese" <don.froese@...> wrote:
Behalf
Great photos of a beautiful boat. They are really helpful and
inspirational. If I recall correctly, you used chine logs. Did you
spring them in after the sides were attached to the frames?
Also, when you say you broke the rowing thwarts, do you mean the 'seats'
(as opposed to the longitudinal seat bearers)?
Thanks very much.
________________________________
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of David
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
Don,
I helped teach a boatbuilding class last summer where we built a Long
Light Dory. If you'd like to see the fotos, here's a link to some
unsorted shots on my flickr page.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbordg/1548691304/
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbordg/1548691304/>
If you search the archives, you'll find 169 messages on the topic of
this boat. Some are bound to be useful. My quick thoughts: it's a
quick build. It's a beautiful, beautiful boat. Attracts lots of
attention at the dock and on the water. Rows really slick with 2 or 3.
Tender as hell solo. Love the infinitely adjustable rowing thwarts.
Thwarts were too flimsy as drawn - we busted 2 almost immediately.
Have Fun,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"You know everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects" -- Will
Rogers
***********
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> , "Don
Froese" <don.froese@...> wrote:
>[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> I bought this book specifically for the Long Dory plans. I plan on
> building one in the near future (once I get a few things off the
> 'Honey-Do' list). Anyone else out there building one?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Don
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
Behalf
> Of Bruce Hallman[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:07 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
>
>
>
> Finally, I bought a copy of Dynamite Payson's new book. (and am
> reading now) In my opinion, there is no doubt, Dynamite is the modern
> boatbuilding guru. What a great and concise collection of boat
> building wisdom! Dynamite basically approves of all glues, except
> cartridge glues like 3M 5200. Too messy to deal with.
>
> The first chapter I turned to was the one on Long Dory. Wow, I gotta
> have one.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Don,
I helped teach a boatbuilding class last summer where we built a Long
Light Dory. If you'd like to see the fotos, here's a link to some
unsorted shots on my flickr page.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbordg/1548691304/
If you search the archives, you'll find 169 messages on the topic of
this boat. Some are bound to be useful. My quick thoughts: it's a
quick build. It's a beautiful, beautiful boat. Attracts lots of
attention at the dock and on the water. Rows really slick with 2 or 3.
Tender as hell solo. Love the infinitely adjustable rowing thwarts.
Thwarts were too flimsy as drawn - we busted 2 almost immediately.
Have Fun,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"You know everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects" -- Will Rogers
***********
I helped teach a boatbuilding class last summer where we built a Long
Light Dory. If you'd like to see the fotos, here's a link to some
unsorted shots on my flickr page.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arbordg/1548691304/
If you search the archives, you'll find 169 messages on the topic of
this boat. Some are bound to be useful. My quick thoughts: it's a
quick build. It's a beautiful, beautiful boat. Attracts lots of
attention at the dock and on the water. Rows really slick with 2 or 3.
Tender as hell solo. Love the infinitely adjustable rowing thwarts.
Thwarts were too flimsy as drawn - we busted 2 almost immediately.
Have Fun,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"You know everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects" -- Will Rogers
***********
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Don Froese" <don.froese@...> wrote:
>
> I bought this book specifically for the Long Dory plans. I plan on
> building one in the near future (once I get a few things off the
> 'Honey-Do' list). Anyone else out there building one?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Don
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Bruce Hallman
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:07 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
>
>
>
> Finally, I bought a copy of Dynamite Payson's new book. (and am
> reading now) In my opinion, there is no doubt, Dynamite is the modern
> boatbuilding guru. What a great and concise collection of boat
> building wisdom! Dynamite basically approves of all glues, except
> cartridge glues like 3M 5200. Too messy to deal with.
>
> The first chapter I turned to was the one on Long Dory. Wow, I gotta
> have one.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > So I guess it doesn't make sense to get it unless you're aThanks Bruce, I value the opinions of the folks in this group more than
> > first-time Payson book buyer, which I will be if I get this one ...
>
> This is a matter of personal opinion, I own the other Payson books,
> and still think this one is a very good read.
the guy who wrote that review I quoted. He has already been out-voted
two to one and I'm sure more people feel the same way you do. I'd like
to order it, I just hope it gets here before Christmas ... :)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
I bought this book specifically for the Long Dory plans. I plan on
building one in the near future (once I get a few things off the
'Honey-Do' list). Anyone else out there building one?
Cheers,
Don
________________________________
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Bruce Hallman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:07 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
Finally, I bought a copy of Dynamite Payson's new book. (and am
reading now) In my opinion, there is no doubt, Dynamite is the modern
boatbuilding guru. What a great and concise collection of boat
building wisdom! Dynamite basically approves of all glues, except
cartridge glues like 3M 5200. Too messy to deal with.
The first chapter I turned to was the one on Long Dory. Wow, I gotta
have one.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
building one in the near future (once I get a few things off the
'Honey-Do' list). Anyone else out there building one?
Cheers,
Don
________________________________
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Bruce Hallman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 6:07 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
Finally, I bought a copy of Dynamite Payson's new book. (and am
reading now) In my opinion, there is no doubt, Dynamite is the modern
boatbuilding guru. What a great and concise collection of boat
building wisdom! Dynamite basically approves of all glues, except
cartridge glues like 3M 5200. Too messy to deal with.
The first chapter I turned to was the one on Long Dory. Wow, I gotta
have one.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On 10/26/07, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
and still think this one is a very good read.
> So I guess it doesn't make sense to get it unless you're a first-timeThis is a matter of personal opinion, I own the other Payson books,
> Payson book buyer, which I will be if I get this one ... :)
and still think this one is a very good read.
Well I will have to disagree about it being useless. I have all three books and they are
all informative and entertaining. Number three has some discussion about building models
and the construction of other boats in the instant boat line not covered in the first
two books.
BubbaP
To:bolger@yahoogroups.comFrom:bagacayboatworks@...: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:19:25 +0800Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Payson's New Book
Just a note for those who might already have other Payson books. One reviewer says this is a great book UNLESS you own one of his previous books: "... in which case this is a major disappointment, as it is the same old pictures of the same old boats. Way too much of the book is about designs covered prevously ..."So I guess it doesn't make sense to get it unless you're a first-time Payson book buyer, which I will be if I get this one ... :)Sincerely,Ken GromeBagacay Boatworkswww.bagacayboatworks.com> "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson"> ISBN-10: 0071472649>http://www.amazon.com/dp/0071472649
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
all informative and entertaining. Number three has some discussion about building models
and the construction of other boats in the instant boat line not covered in the first
two books.
BubbaP
To:bolger@yahoogroups.comFrom:bagacayboatworks@...: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:19:25 +0800Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Payson's New Book
Just a note for those who might already have other Payson books. One reviewer says this is a great book UNLESS you own one of his previous books: "... in which case this is a major disappointment, as it is the same old pictures of the same old boats. Way too much of the book is about designs covered prevously ..."So I guess it doesn't make sense to get it unless you're a first-time Payson book buyer, which I will be if I get this one ... :)Sincerely,Ken GromeBagacay Boatworkswww.bagacayboatworks.com> "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson"> ISBN-10: 0071472649>http://www.amazon.com/dp/0071472649
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just a note for those who might already have other Payson books. One
reviewer says this is a great book UNLESS you own one of his previous
books:
"... in which case this is a major
disappointment, as it is the same
old pictures of the same old boats.
Way too much of the book is about
designs covered prevously ..."
So I guess it doesn't make sense to get it unless you're a first-time
Payson book buyer, which I will be if I get this one ... :)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
reviewer says this is a great book UNLESS you own one of his previous
books:
"... in which case this is a major
disappointment, as it is the same
old pictures of the same old boats.
Way too much of the book is about
designs covered prevously ..."
So I guess it doesn't make sense to get it unless you're a first-time
Payson book buyer, which I will be if I get this one ... :)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson"
> ISBN-10: 0071472649
>http://www.amazon.com/dp/0071472649
>"Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson"
> What new book? Enlighten me.
ISBN-10: 0071472649
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0071472649
What new book? Enlighten me.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Finally, I bought a copy of Dynamite Payson's new book. (and am
> reading now) In my opinion, there is no doubt, Dynamite is the modern
> boatbuilding guru. What a great and concise collection of boat
> building wisdom! Dynamite basically approves of all glues, except
> cartridge glues like 3M 5200. Too messy to deal with.
>
> The first chapter I turned to was the one on Long Dory. Wow, I
gotta have one.
>
Finally, I bought a copy of Dynamite Payson's new book. (and am
reading now) In my opinion, there is no doubt, Dynamite is the modern
boatbuilding guru. What a great and concise collection of boat
building wisdom! Dynamite basically approves of all glues, except
cartridge glues like 3M 5200. Too messy to deal with.
The first chapter I turned to was the one on Long Dory. Wow, I gotta have one.
reading now) In my opinion, there is no doubt, Dynamite is the modern
boatbuilding guru. What a great and concise collection of boat
building wisdom! Dynamite basically approves of all glues, except
cartridge glues like 3M 5200. Too messy to deal with.
The first chapter I turned to was the one on Long Dory. Wow, I gotta have one.
Harry,
Here's the stuff I've used.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230ONO702LE2UNGDM644_nid=GS65P24BVFgsM2KQR6S0GKglGSNMCGWWTDbl
This stuff softens cured 5200. One still has to slice through it w/a
blade, but it changes the experience. Without a soak with this
solvent, it's like trying to slice through the tread of a new set of
tires. With it, it's more like slicing through an inner tube.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes" -- Douglas Adams
*********
Here's the stuff I've used.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MAutomotive/Aftermarket/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230ONO702LE2UNGDM644_nid=GS65P24BVFgsM2KQR6S0GKglGSNMCGWWTDbl
This stuff softens cured 5200. One still has to slice through it w/a
blade, but it changes the experience. Without a soak with this
solvent, it's like trying to slice through the tread of a new set of
tires. With it, it's more like slicing through an inner tube.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes" -- Douglas Adams
*********
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> I had thought there was some 3 M stuff for removing 5200 so I went to
> the source, here is the reply.
>
> Harry,
>
> Thank you for contacting 3M.
>
> CURED
> Polyurethane adhesive sealant must be removed mechanically if cured.
Use a
> knife, razor blade, piano wire, putty knife or sandpaper.
>
> Heating to remove 5200 and 4200 is not recommended because of the vapors
> given off and possible damage to the substrate.
>
> 5200 is meant for permanent applications. If removability is
important in
> your application and you still need adhesive qualities use 3M Marine
> Adhesive Sealant Fast Cure 4200. 3M(TM) Marine Adhesive/Sealant 4200
> performs the same as 5200 with half the strength of 5200, therefore,
easier
> to remove.
>
> Good luck with trying to remove this. We appreciate your business!
>
> Sincerely,
I had thought there was some 3 M stuff for removing 5200 so I went to
the source, here is the reply.
Harry,
Thank you for contacting 3M.
CURED
Polyurethane adhesive sealant must be removed mechanically if cured. Use a
knife, razor blade, piano wire, putty knife or sandpaper.
Heating to remove 5200 and 4200 is not recommended because of the vapors
given off and possible damage to the substrate.
5200 is meant for permanent applications. If removability is important in
your application and you still need adhesive qualities use 3M Marine
Adhesive Sealant Fast Cure 4200. 3M(TM) Marine Adhesive/Sealant 4200
performs the same as 5200 with half the strength of 5200, therefore, easier
to remove.
Good luck with trying to remove this. We appreciate your business!
Sincerely,
Kristine Bennett wrote:
the source, here is the reply.
Harry,
Thank you for contacting 3M.
CURED
Polyurethane adhesive sealant must be removed mechanically if cured. Use a
knife, razor blade, piano wire, putty knife or sandpaper.
Heating to remove 5200 and 4200 is not recommended because of the vapors
given off and possible damage to the substrate.
5200 is meant for permanent applications. If removability is important in
your application and you still need adhesive qualities use 3M Marine
Adhesive Sealant Fast Cure 4200. 3M(TM) Marine Adhesive/Sealant 4200
performs the same as 5200 with half the strength of 5200, therefore, easier
to remove.
Good luck with trying to remove this. We appreciate your business!
Sincerely,
Kristine Bennett wrote:
> You can clean up 5200 with a number of solvents. But when it sets good luck! I remember reading not to use alcohol to clean up 5200 or 4200 and their like with it.
>
> I have some stuff called Debond and it worked getting some deck fittings off the deck with out ripping the deck up. The other thing that helps is heat and lot's of it... Just don't burn the boat to the ground.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> Jamie Orr <jas_orr@...> wrote: Hi
>
> Don't know about alcohol, but plain old mineral spirits will clean
> up uncured 5200. I've tried this myself and it worked, although
> it's a dirty job -- the goop sticks to the rag and will cheerfully
> transfer itself to anything within reach. Use lots of mineral
> spirits and lots of rags.
>
> I also used it to clean up the outside of the joints, only the
> surface 5200 was removed, the adhesive inside the joint wasn't
> affected.
>
> Jamie Orr
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chester Young" <chester@...> wrote:
> >
> > If 5200 really cleans up with alcohol I would say that is an
> unknown trade
> > secret. My experience has been that if you so much as touch it
> with your
> > fingers, it is on your elbows and the back of your head. I have
> had more
> > than one impromptu hair cut due to 5200 and other sundry 3M
> products.
> >
> >
> >
> > Caloosarat
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > dnjost
> > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:46 PM
> > To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
> >
> >
> >
> > Whoa!!!thanks for the tip.
> >
> > Don't drop a bottle of rum in the bilge! That could take you right
> to
> > Davey Jones locker.
> >
> > David Jost
> > all I keep in my locker is my bevel gauge and a scale rule.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Only been here for about 28 hours but it is all cleand out and more
parts found. Could use your help in what some of the wood types are.
The Oak bottom ribs and the Western Red Ceder planking are easy as well
as some of the other it is this blond color dryroted keel I am not
shure of.
Jon
parts found. Could use your help in what some of the wood types are.
The Oak bottom ribs and the Western Red Ceder planking are easy as well
as some of the other it is this blond color dryroted keel I am not
shure of.
Jon
> Is that Lightning done yet? You've had it at your shop for almost 48
> hours now <G>
>
> Cheers,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR
>
> "A friend is one before whom I may think aloud" -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Jon,
Absolute wisdom. I just assume that every one knows about spontaneous
combustion dangers, and neglected to remind folks to monitor closely.
I'd never walk off and leave such a setup unattended. Always in view,
checked frequently, and always aware of fire extinguisher locations.
I've only experienced the spontaneous combustion phenomena once
firsthand. Friends shop. Linseed oil rags. New guy was told to "toss
em in the bucket". He didn't know there was a dedicated bucket full of
water to sink them into. He tossed them into an open 5 gal. plastic
bucket. I was there when it burst into flames, and helped put it out
and sort out the miscommunication.
Thanks for the reminder.
Is that Lightning done yet? You've had it at your shop for almost 48
hours now <G>
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"A friend is one before whom I may think aloud" -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
*************
Absolute wisdom. I just assume that every one knows about spontaneous
combustion dangers, and neglected to remind folks to monitor closely.
I'd never walk off and leave such a setup unattended. Always in view,
checked frequently, and always aware of fire extinguisher locations.
I've only experienced the spontaneous combustion phenomena once
firsthand. Friends shop. Linseed oil rags. New guy was told to "toss
em in the bucket". He didn't know there was a dedicated bucket full of
water to sink them into. He tossed them into an open 5 gal. plastic
bucket. I was there when it burst into flames, and helped put it out
and sort out the miscommunication.
Thanks for the reminder.
Is that Lightning done yet? You've had it at your shop for almost 48
hours now <G>
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"A friend is one before whom I may think aloud" -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
*************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
>
> Also dont leave rags with high valital solvents laying around piled
> or waded up. The can self ignite so it is best to keep an eye on it
> when wraped around something soaking. When done spread out flat on a
> concreat surface. A contractor was building his owen home and the
> painters had spread there laquer thinner rags in the yard. When the
> super came by later he picked them up and piled them in the garage.
> At 1 Am the house went up in flames. Just take caution with solvents.
>
> Jon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@> wrote:
> >
> > I've not had success with alcohol cleaning up cured 5200. 3M makes a
> > product that melts it. Xylene is the main ingredient. It works just
> > fine, but needs to soak on the 5200. I've used paper towels & rags
> to
> > hold the damp fluid against the adhesive. Caution, if you let it set
> > too long, it'll also melt gelcoat, oil paints, & latex paints.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David Graybeal
> > Portland, OR
> >
> > "Cleaning anything involves making something else dirty, but
> anything
> > can get dirty without something else getting clean" -- Lawrence
> Peters
Also dont leave rags with high valital solvents laying around piled
or waded up. The can self ignite so it is best to keep an eye on it
when wraped around something soaking. When done spread out flat on a
concreat surface. A contractor was building his owen home and the
painters had spread there laquer thinner rags in the yard. When the
super came by later he picked them up and piled them in the garage.
At 1 Am the house went up in flames. Just take caution with solvents.
Jon
or waded up. The can self ignite so it is best to keep an eye on it
when wraped around something soaking. When done spread out flat on a
concreat surface. A contractor was building his owen home and the
painters had spread there laquer thinner rags in the yard. When the
super came by later he picked them up and piled them in the garage.
At 1 Am the house went up in flames. Just take caution with solvents.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
>
> I've not had success with alcohol cleaning up cured 5200. 3M makes a
> product that melts it. Xylene is the main ingredient. It works just
> fine, but needs to soak on the 5200. I've used paper towels & rags
to
> hold the damp fluid against the adhesive. Caution, if you let it set
> too long, it'll also melt gelcoat, oil paints, & latex paints.
>
> Cheers,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR
>
> "Cleaning anything involves making something else dirty, but
anything
> can get dirty without something else getting clean" -- Lawrence
Peters
>
> ***************
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@> wrote:
> >
> > You can clean up 5200 with a number of solvents. But when it sets
> good luck! I remember reading not to use alcohol to clean up 5200 or
> 4200 and their like with it.
> >
> > I have some stuff called Debond and it worked getting some deck
> fittings off the deck with out ripping the deck up. The other thing
> that helps is heat and lot's of it... Just don't burn the boat to
the
> ground.
> >
> > Blessings Krissie
>
I've not had success with alcohol cleaning up cured 5200. 3M makes a
product that melts it. Xylene is the main ingredient. It works just
fine, but needs to soak on the 5200. I've used paper towels & rags to
hold the damp fluid against the adhesive. Caution, if you let it set
too long, it'll also melt gelcoat, oil paints, & latex paints.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Cleaning anything involves making something else dirty, but anything
can get dirty without something else getting clean" -- Lawrence Peters
***************
product that melts it. Xylene is the main ingredient. It works just
fine, but needs to soak on the 5200. I've used paper towels & rags to
hold the damp fluid against the adhesive. Caution, if you let it set
too long, it'll also melt gelcoat, oil paints, & latex paints.
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Cleaning anything involves making something else dirty, but anything
can get dirty without something else getting clean" -- Lawrence Peters
***************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> You can clean up 5200 with a number of solvents. But when it sets
good luck! I remember reading not to use alcohol to clean up 5200 or
4200 and their like with it.
>
> I have some stuff called Debond and it worked getting some deck
fittings off the deck with out ripping the deck up. The other thing
that helps is heat and lot's of it... Just don't burn the boat to the
ground.
>
> Blessings Krissie
You can clean up 5200 with a number of solvents. But when it sets good luck! I remember reading not to use alcohol to clean up 5200 or 4200 and their like with it.
I have some stuff called Debond and it worked getting some deck fittings off the deck with out ripping the deck up. The other thing that helps is heat and lot's of it... Just don't burn the boat to the ground.
Blessings Krissie
Jamie Orr <jas_orr@...> wrote: Hi
Don't know about alcohol, but plain old mineral spirits will clean
up uncured 5200. I've tried this myself and it worked, although
it's a dirty job -- the goop sticks to the rag and will cheerfully
transfer itself to anything within reach. Use lots of mineral
spirits and lots of rags.
I also used it to clean up the outside of the joints, only the
surface 5200 was removed, the adhesive inside the joint wasn't
affected.
Jamie Orr
I have some stuff called Debond and it worked getting some deck fittings off the deck with out ripping the deck up. The other thing that helps is heat and lot's of it... Just don't burn the boat to the ground.
Blessings Krissie
Jamie Orr <jas_orr@...> wrote: Hi
Don't know about alcohol, but plain old mineral spirits will clean
up uncured 5200. I've tried this myself and it worked, although
it's a dirty job -- the goop sticks to the rag and will cheerfully
transfer itself to anything within reach. Use lots of mineral
spirits and lots of rags.
I also used it to clean up the outside of the joints, only the
surface 5200 was removed, the adhesive inside the joint wasn't
affected.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chester Young" <chester@...> wrote:
>
> If 5200 really cleans up with alcohol I would say that is an
unknown trade
> secret. My experience has been that if you so much as touch it
with your
> fingers, it is on your elbows and the back of your head. I have
had more
> than one impromptu hair cut due to 5200 and other sundry 3M
products.
>
>
>
> Caloosarat
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> dnjost
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:46 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
>
>
>
> Whoa!!!thanks for the tip.
>
> Don't drop a bottle of rum in the bilge! That could take you right
to
> Davey Jones locker.
>
> David Jost
> all I keep in my locker is my bevel gauge and a scale rule.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi
Don't know about alcohol, but plain old mineral spirits will clean
up uncured 5200. I've tried this myself and it worked, although
it's a dirty job -- the goop sticks to the rag and will cheerfully
transfer itself to anything within reach. Use lots of mineral
spirits and lots of rags.
I also used it to clean up the outside of the joints, only the
surface 5200 was removed, the adhesive inside the joint wasn't
affected.
Jamie Orr
Don't know about alcohol, but plain old mineral spirits will clean
up uncured 5200. I've tried this myself and it worked, although
it's a dirty job -- the goop sticks to the rag and will cheerfully
transfer itself to anything within reach. Use lots of mineral
spirits and lots of rags.
I also used it to clean up the outside of the joints, only the
surface 5200 was removed, the adhesive inside the joint wasn't
affected.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chester Young" <chester@...> wrote:
>
> If 5200 really cleans up with alcohol I would say that is an
unknown trade
> secret. My experience has been that if you so much as touch it
with your
> fingers, it is on your elbows and the back of your head. I have
had more
> than one impromptu hair cut due to 5200 and other sundry 3M
products.
>
>
>
> Caloosarat
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> dnjost
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:46 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
>
>
>
> Whoa!!!thanks for the tip.
>
> Don't drop a bottle of rum in the bilge! That could take you right
to
> Davey Jones locker.
>
> David Jost
> all I keep in my locker is my bevel gauge and a scale rule.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
If 5200 really cleans up with alcohol I would say that is an unknown trade
secret. My experience has been that if you so much as touch it with your
fingers, it is on your elbows and the back of your head. I have had more
than one impromptu hair cut due to 5200 and other sundry 3M products.
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dnjost
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:46 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
Whoa!!!thanks for the tip.
Don't drop a bottle of rum in the bilge! That could take you right to
Davey Jones locker.
David Jost
all I keep in my locker is my bevel gauge and a scale rule.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
secret. My experience has been that if you so much as touch it with your
fingers, it is on your elbows and the back of your head. I have had more
than one impromptu hair cut due to 5200 and other sundry 3M products.
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dnjost
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 3:46 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Glues for boatbuilding
Whoa!!!thanks for the tip.
Don't drop a bottle of rum in the bilge! That could take you right to
Davey Jones locker.
David Jost
all I keep in my locker is my bevel gauge and a scale rule.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Whoa!!!thanks for the tip.
Don't drop a bottle of rum in the bilge! That could take you right to
Davey Jones locker.
David Jost
all I keep in my locker is my bevel gauge and a scale rule.
Don't drop a bottle of rum in the bilge! That could take you right to
Davey Jones locker.
David Jost
all I keep in my locker is my bevel gauge and a scale rule.
3m sells a releasing agent for 5200,I have also heard that alcohol will
make it let go.
HJ
Kristine Bennett wrote:
make it let go.
HJ
Kristine Bennett wrote:
> When you look on the tube 5200 and 4200 it says adhesive/sealant. I can attest to how well it will stick! Getting hulls fittings that are set in it is a chore! Best way to get them apart HEAT and lot's of it! Just don't burn the boat down!
>
> With that said I have never tried it to stick hull planking to frames.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> Bill Kreamer <kreamers@...> wrote: I'll be using 5200 in a wide-ish joint to install my bilgeboard trunks so I
> can remove them with a hacksaw blade.
> -Bill
>
> _____
>
>
>
>
When you look on the tube 5200 and 4200 it says adhesive/sealant. I can attest to how well it will stick! Getting hulls fittings that are set in it is a chore! Best way to get them apart HEAT and lot's of it! Just don't burn the boat down!
With that said I have never tried it to stick hull planking to frames.
Blessings Krissie
Bill Kreamer <kreamers@...> wrote: I'll be using 5200 in a wide-ish joint to install my bilgeboard trunks so I
can remove them with a hacksaw blade.
-Bill
_____
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
With that said I have never tried it to stick hull planking to frames.
Blessings Krissie
Bill Kreamer <kreamers@...> wrote: I'll be using 5200 in a wide-ish joint to install my bilgeboard trunks so I
can remove them with a hacksaw blade.
-Bill
_____
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll be using 5200 in a wide-ish joint to install my bilgeboard trunks so I
can remove them with a hacksaw blade.
-Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Kristine Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:21 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Glues for boatbuilding
The glues you are speaking of are all good, but as I understand it they also
need good joint fit up as well.
Any one use 3Ms 5200 to glue stuff up with? I used it on my camper shell and
it's holding up well. But it's also not a boat hull.
Blessings all Krissie
Robert du Domaine < <mailto:robert.dudomaine@...>
robert.dudomaine@...> wrote: The subject of glues and the toxicity of
epoxy is of continuing
interest. I don't see any mention of the urea - formaldehyde glues
which was what we primarily used when I started boat building fifty
years ago. I see from a quick search on the net that URAC 185 is
available and so is Aerolite , both excellent boatbuilding glues that
I've used. I don't know about their toxicity issues relative to epoxy.
. As I recall the Aerolite used straight formaldehyde on one side of
the joint. URAC smells less....... it's just a powder to be mixed
with water. Thoughts on these glues ???
.
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1194369/grpspId=1705065791/msgId
=55899/stime=1192764039/nc1=4430620/nc2=4507179/nc3=4706132>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
can remove them with a hacksaw blade.
-Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Kristine Bennett
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:21 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Glues for boatbuilding
The glues you are speaking of are all good, but as I understand it they also
need good joint fit up as well.
Any one use 3Ms 5200 to glue stuff up with? I used it on my camper shell and
it's holding up well. But it's also not a boat hull.
Blessings all Krissie
Robert du Domaine < <mailto:robert.dudomaine@...>
robert.dudomaine@...> wrote: The subject of glues and the toxicity of
epoxy is of continuing
interest. I don't see any mention of the urea - formaldehyde glues
which was what we primarily used when I started boat building fifty
years ago. I see from a quick search on the net that URAC 185 is
available and so is Aerolite , both excellent boatbuilding glues that
I've used. I don't know about their toxicity issues relative to epoxy.
. As I recall the Aerolite used straight formaldehyde on one side of
the joint. URAC smells less....... it's just a powder to be mixed
with water. Thoughts on these glues ???
.
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1194369/grpspId=1705065791/msgId
=55899/stime=1192764039/nc1=4430620/nc2=4507179/nc3=4706132>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The glues you are speaking of are all good, but as I understand it they also need good joint fit up as well.
Any one use 3Ms 5200 to glue stuff up with? I used it on my camper shell and it's holding up well. But it's also not a boat hull.
Blessings all Krissie
Robert du Domaine <robert.dudomaine@...> wrote: The subject of glues and the toxicity of epoxy is of continuing
interest. I don't see any mention of the urea - formaldehyde glues
which was what we primarily used when I started boat building fifty
years ago. I see from a quick search on the net that URAC 185 is
available and so is Aerolite , both excellent boatbuilding glues that
I've used. I don't know about their toxicity issues relative to epoxy.
. As I recall the Aerolite used straight formaldehyde on one side of
the joint. URAC smells less....... it's just a powder to be mixed
with water. Thoughts on these glues ???
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Any one use 3Ms 5200 to glue stuff up with? I used it on my camper shell and it's holding up well. But it's also not a boat hull.
Blessings all Krissie
Robert du Domaine <robert.dudomaine@...> wrote: The subject of glues and the toxicity of epoxy is of continuing
interest. I don't see any mention of the urea - formaldehyde glues
which was what we primarily used when I started boat building fifty
years ago. I see from a quick search on the net that URAC 185 is
available and so is Aerolite , both excellent boatbuilding glues that
I've used. I don't know about their toxicity issues relative to epoxy.
. As I recall the Aerolite used straight formaldehyde on one side of
the joint. URAC smells less....... it's just a powder to be mixed
with water. Thoughts on these glues ???
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The subject of glues and the toxicity of epoxy is of continuing
interest. I don't see any mention of the urea - formaldehyde glues
which was what we primarily used when I started boat building fifty
years ago. I see from a quick search on the net that URAC 185 is
available and so is Aerolite , both excellent boatbuilding glues that
I've used. I don't know about their toxicity issues relative to epoxy.
. As I recall the Aerolite used straight formaldehyde on one side of
the joint. URAC smells less....... it's just a powder to be mixed
with water. Thoughts on these glues ???
interest. I don't see any mention of the urea - formaldehyde glues
which was what we primarily used when I started boat building fifty
years ago. I see from a quick search on the net that URAC 185 is
available and so is Aerolite , both excellent boatbuilding glues that
I've used. I don't know about their toxicity issues relative to epoxy.
. As I recall the Aerolite used straight formaldehyde on one side of
the joint. URAC smells less....... it's just a powder to be mixed
with water. Thoughts on these glues ???
Weldwood is readily available in the US. My father was a mastershipwright of
the old school, pre epoxy. He used Weldwood on all his masts, and I know of a
couple that lasted at least 30 years on SF Bay, not a place for weak
construction. Fit and clamping were very important of course.
Thanks for the links
HJ
the old school, pre epoxy. He used Weldwood on all his masts, and I know of a
couple that lasted at least 30 years on SF Bay, not a place for weak
construction. Fit and clamping were very important of course.
Thanks for the links
HJ
> > Almost immpossible to get Aerolite these days. Might be able to in
>
> England. I
>
> > tried to find some a while back and was unable.
> >
> > HJ
> >
> > > Personally, I will only use plastic barrier materials on the exterior
> > > and in gap filling applications. Everything else (structural) is
> > > regular glue, maybe Areolite.
>
> Here are a few sources I found:
>
>http://www.gluelines.co.uk/
>
> They got a distributorship in November 2002 and are advertising
> Aerolite on their top page.
>
> Here's a nice one. These guys are selling Aerolite for 5 pound 85 for
> 500g:
>
>http://www.marinestorechandlers.com/catalog/c50.html
>
> ..and another one...
>
>http://www.sailloft.net/web/chandlery.htm
>
> Of course, if this stuff is too hard to get in quantity (I would be
> using liters and liters of it for hull glueup) you can always use
> Weldwood, which is aircraft rated (Aerolite and Weldwood are both
> heavily used in the wooden aircraft industry) so you just need to seal
> the wood well on the outside. Just to emphasize, Weldwood or Aerolite,
> even shipped from the UK, as long as it is in quantity will be much
> cheaper than epoxy for large applications, and will suit just fine as
> long as you encaps the outside.
>
> And I would definitely use Resorcinol for laminating deck and house
> beams, and for any gluing near the hull/deck join. No two ways around
> that.
>
> --T
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
http://www.gluelines.co.uk/
They got a distributorship in November 2002 and are advertising
Aerolite on their top page.
Here's a nice one. These guys are selling Aerolite for 5 pound 85 for
500g:
http://www.marinestorechandlers.com/catalog/c50.html
..and another one...
http://www.sailloft.net/web/chandlery.htm
Of course, if this stuff is too hard to get in quantity (I would be
using liters and liters of it for hull glueup) you can always use
Weldwood, which is aircraft rated (Aerolite and Weldwood are both
heavily used in the wooden aircraft industry) so you just need to seal
the wood well on the outside. Just to emphasize, Weldwood or Aerolite,
even shipped from the UK, as long as it is in quantity will be much
cheaper than epoxy for large applications, and will suit just fine as
long as you encaps the outside.
And I would definitely use Resorcinol for laminating deck and house
beams, and for any gluing near the hull/deck join. No two ways around
that.
--T
> Almost immpossible to get Aerolite these days. Might be able to inEngland. I
> tried to find some a while back and was unable.Here are a few sources I found:
>
> HJ
> >
> > Personally, I will only use plastic barrier materials on the exterior
> > and in gap filling applications. Everything else (structural) is
> > regular glue, maybe Areolite.
http://www.gluelines.co.uk/
They got a distributorship in November 2002 and are advertising
Aerolite on their top page.
Here's a nice one. These guys are selling Aerolite for 5 pound 85 for
500g:
http://www.marinestorechandlers.com/catalog/c50.html
..and another one...
http://www.sailloft.net/web/chandlery.htm
Of course, if this stuff is too hard to get in quantity (I would be
using liters and liters of it for hull glueup) you can always use
Weldwood, which is aircraft rated (Aerolite and Weldwood are both
heavily used in the wooden aircraft industry) so you just need to seal
the wood well on the outside. Just to emphasize, Weldwood or Aerolite,
even shipped from the UK, as long as it is in quantity will be much
cheaper than epoxy for large applications, and will suit just fine as
long as you encaps the outside.
And I would definitely use Resorcinol for laminating deck and house
beams, and for any gluing near the hull/deck join. No two ways around
that.
--T
Almost immpossible to get Aerolite these days. Might be able to in England. I
tried to find some a while back and was unable.
HJ
tried to find some a while back and was unable.
HJ
>
> Personally, I will only use plastic barrier materials on the exterior
> and in gap filling applications. Everything else (structural) is
> regular glue, maybe Areolite.
>
> --T
>
>
Jake,
Not to echo too much what's already been said...
Any 'waterproof' glue which is rated for immersion is good for joints
that will be exposed to water constantly. This means, for example, you
can use Resorcinol for glue bonds in underwater joins in a boat, and
they will hold without any barrier coat (like any sort of paint or
plastic compound)
If you are looking for something a bit less manly, and intend on
putting some sort of barrier coat between the glue and the water, then
really any moisture resistant glue is fine. The better the barrier
coat, the less moisture resistant the glue needs to be. You can get
large amounts of carpenter's glue in powder form for pretty cheap
(Weldwood, Wilhold, etc). What you really want to do is talk to a
professional carpenter in your area and he will guide you to the best
sources for large amounts of various types and grades of glues.
Remember: ANY glue mustmustmust have a tight fit to hold! This is
contrary to plastic adhesives/fillers like epoxy and 3M 5200.
Glue LOVES a tight fit. Epoxy HATES a tight fit.
Personally, I will only use plastic barrier materials on the exterior
and in gap filling applications. Everything else (structural) is
regular glue, maybe Areolite.
--T
Not to echo too much what's already been said...
Any 'waterproof' glue which is rated for immersion is good for joints
that will be exposed to water constantly. This means, for example, you
can use Resorcinol for glue bonds in underwater joins in a boat, and
they will hold without any barrier coat (like any sort of paint or
plastic compound)
If you are looking for something a bit less manly, and intend on
putting some sort of barrier coat between the glue and the water, then
really any moisture resistant glue is fine. The better the barrier
coat, the less moisture resistant the glue needs to be. You can get
large amounts of carpenter's glue in powder form for pretty cheap
(Weldwood, Wilhold, etc). What you really want to do is talk to a
professional carpenter in your area and he will guide you to the best
sources for large amounts of various types and grades of glues.
Remember: ANY glue mustmustmust have a tight fit to hold! This is
contrary to plastic adhesives/fillers like epoxy and 3M 5200.
Glue LOVES a tight fit. Epoxy HATES a tight fit.
Personally, I will only use plastic barrier materials on the exterior
and in gap filling applications. Everything else (structural) is
regular glue, maybe Areolite.
--T
Jake,
If by 'non-marine' you mean 'non-moisture resistant' than just about any
adhesive will do. . .
Before Epoxy, and the 'tube goo's ' there was Resorcinol. While this
stuff is a 'waterproof' adhesive it does illustrate the typical
characteristic of most glues . . . it REQUIRES a TIGHT JOINT for optimal
strength because it is NOT 'gap filling'.
MY favorite is RAKA 5:1 epoxy with woodflour filler, mixed 'to taste'
for the application at hand. It IS WATERPROOF. Next in line, and my 'all
around' wood glue {YES, I use it on boats, and outdoor projects} is
TiteBond II {by Borden, I think}. It IS 'moisture resistant'.
The rest of the typical woodworking glue's; TiteBond, Franklin's Hide
Glue, etc. are more or less affected by moisture.
While the Polyurethane's {the 'foaming' ones} are good, they DO NOT fill
gaps with strength and are MUCH TOO EXPENSIVE for large jobs {MY
opinion}.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
If by 'non-marine' you mean 'non-moisture resistant' than just about any
adhesive will do. . .
Before Epoxy, and the 'tube goo's ' there was Resorcinol. While this
stuff is a 'waterproof' adhesive it does illustrate the typical
characteristic of most glues . . . it REQUIRES a TIGHT JOINT for optimal
strength because it is NOT 'gap filling'.
MY favorite is RAKA 5:1 epoxy with woodflour filler, mixed 'to taste'
for the application at hand. It IS WATERPROOF. Next in line, and my 'all
around' wood glue {YES, I use it on boats, and outdoor projects} is
TiteBond II {by Borden, I think}. It IS 'moisture resistant'.
The rest of the typical woodworking glue's; TiteBond, Franklin's Hide
Glue, etc. are more or less affected by moisture.
While the Polyurethane's {the 'foaming' ones} are good, they DO NOT fill
gaps with strength and are MUCH TOO EXPENSIVE for large jobs {MY
opinion}.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
> Message: 6<jakeman19652002@...>
> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:18:23 -0000
> From: "jakeman19652002 <jakeman19652002@...>"
> Subject: glue________________________________________________________________________
>
> Hi. I am interested in glue. Are ther any glues that are non marine
> that can be used in boat building. Thanks Jake
>________________________________________________________________________
>construction
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:52:30 -0900
> From: Harry James <welshman@...>
> Subject: Re: glue
>
> We have had very good luck with PL Premium, a polyurethane
> glue. It comes in a yellow tube, you use a caulking gun to dispenseit. Your
> local hardware store should have it.
>
>
> HJ