Re: plywood diesel cruiser

In my opinion, talking about appearance, the Plywood Cruiser is a
fine functional looking craft. If you slide something up to the
waterline in Bolgers book, so you are not seeing all the underwater
clag, she looks good, and I'm sure in 3D too.
The Scoter is a pretty boat (nothing wrong with that), but to my
mind the Cruiser looks and is a craft with more authority.
DonB



> I am considering a 'boat of this size' as a replacement for our
21'
> camping trailer that we tow with our Jeep Cherokee. My sweetie,
our
> Westy (dog), and I. Camp on land in the boat. It would not be as
good
> a camper as our present camper, but it would be a much better
boat. I
> have to keep the cost down, but have some time, (retired), so
> building a boat seems a good idea.
>
> The Devlin Wind Scoter 22' is $41,000 (??) without power, but
Devlin
> claims that you can build it for 1/3 of that. Then there is cost
of
> trailer and cost of power. The Wind Scoter 25' would be more, but
I
> like the looks of it and the extra size. But Devlin has designed
it
> for a 135 I/O diesel drive. That is big bucks. Even home built
would
> probaly be out of my range. Of course, one could power it with a
> small engine.
>
> Just moveing along at displacement speed would be fine with me. I
am
> sort of relaxed and would like to stay that way.
>
> The hull of the Bolger cruiser looks to me like something that I
> would like to build. The interior arrangement looks better to me
than
> the Scoter25. But I can't tell from the book if I would really
like
> the looks of it compared to the Windscoter. Hmmmmmmmm.... And I
would
> think that use use of exterior plywood instead of marine grade
> (cost!) would matter less in Bolger vs. Devlin.
>
> Perhaps some 'composite' boat, .... the best of both????
>
> >
> > It has an almost vertical, straight stem and a flat vertical
> transom. It could perhaps be called a sedan cruiser with a
spacious
> wheelhouse that has the usual wheel and engine controls, a small
> galley and a dinette, as I recall.
> >
> > There is a pair of settee-berths under a trunk cabin forward of
the
> house, with a toilet compartment in the bow, with a large hatch
above
> it. There is a reasonably spacious self-draining cockpit aft.
> >
> > The engine specified is a shaft-drive Yanmar diesel of, I think,
27
> h.p. Bolger indicates the speed that could be achieved, but I
can't
> remember the number. The speed-length ratio is something over two,
so
> it could be considered as a planing boat.
>
> He calls for an 18 hp Yanmar. Estimated max speed, if I recall, is
10
> or 12 knots, with cruising 8 knots.
>
> > Devlin's designs all have a kind of shippy character-boat look
to
> them. PDC is conservative, even old-fashioned, but not
particularly
> stylish. I've always thought that the arrangement of the forehatch
> and foredeck on PDC look rather unattractive and would try to
think
> of some kind of alternative if I were building one -- maybe a
raised
> foredeck instead of the trunk cabin. Perhaps the boat as designed
> would look a lot better in three dimensions than it does on paper.
> >
> > I've never seen a photo of a finished boat.
>
> Yes. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I can read plans
to
> some extent, but a photo of a finished boat is what 'I' really
need.
>
> BTW, I have a copy of Gerr's book on scantlings. Bolger's boat
seems
> to fit Gerr's rules.
>
> I also have a $15 set of 'study plans' for Devlins 25' Windscoter.
It
> is a double chine. The double chine seems to work out very well.
>
> Earl Gasner
> gasner@a...
>
> >
> > Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "aquatronclaus" <aquatronboat@h...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "earlgasner" <gasner@a...> wrote:
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@a... wrote:
> > > >I would like to know more about this design. Is there a
> >picture
> > of the actual boat anywhere?
> > > >Its design is shown in Bolger's BWAOM. The website lists it as
> > > >available for $200 from "PBand F". What is that???
> > > >It also lists a 'ref. no.' as BWAOM Ch#56.

snip from Fast Diesel Cruiser (bolger) to Surfscoter (devlin).

> > is a double chine. The double chine seems to work out very well.
> >
> > Earl Gasner
> > gasner@a...
> >
> > >
> > > Howard
> '
> I have a Devlin Surfscoter25 under construction, I will be glad to
> attach a picture, but I don´t know how.
> Claus

Find a friend with a digital camera and a computer. Download the
picture to the computer. You can usually attach a digital picture to
an e-mail. You might want to get a digital camera and record the
stages of construction.

Earl
gasner@...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "earlgasner" <gasner@a...> wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@a... wrote:
> > >I would like to know more about this design. Is there a
>picture
> of the actual boat anywhere?
> > >Its design is shown in Bolger's BWAOM. The website lists it as
> > >available for $200 from "PBand F". What is that???
> > >It also lists a 'ref. no.' as BWAOM Ch#56.
> > >What does anyone think of it as compared to Devlins Wind
>Scoter
> 22 or Wind Scoter 25?
> > >Earl Gasner
> >
> > Earl,
> >
> > I hope the following doesn't repeat a lot of what you already
know.
> >
> > "PB & F" is Phil Bolger and Friends. So if you want to order
plans,
> or make enquiries, you can write to the address shown at the foot
of
> the emails that are sent from the group i.e. Mr. Philip C. Bolger,
> P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349, just in
> case you visit the group's website rather than have emails sent to
> you. >
>
> O.K. Thanks. (After much grief, I finally found out how to
register
> with Yahoo, so I can work with the website.)
>
>
> > The Plywood Diesel Cruiser (PDC for the time being) is 23'6"
x7'5",
> with a designed displacement of 3,090 lb. As I'm separated from my
> library by over 10,000 miles, the following is from memory. It's a
> single-chine hull with a moderate amount of flare in the topsides
> built of ply over frames and stringers. Some -- and I'm inclined
to
> agree with them, particularly when you are getting to a boat this
> size -- say that this means of construction is easier, or at least
> less time-consuming, than the stitch-and-glue technique used with
> Devlin designs.
>
> I am considering a 'boat of this size' as a replacement for our
21'
> camping trailer that we tow with our Jeep Cherokee. My sweetie,
our
> Westy (dog), and I. Camp on land in the boat. It would not be as
good
> a camper as our present camper, but it would be a much better
boat. I
> have to keep the cost down, but have some time, (retired), so
> building a boat seems a good idea.
>
> The Devlin Wind Scoter 22' is $41,000 (??) without power, but
Devlin
> claims that you can build it for 1/3 of that. Then there is cost
of
> trailer and cost of power. The Wind Scoter 25' would be more, but
I
> like the looks of it and the extra size. But Devlin has designed
it
> for a 135 I/O diesel drive. That is big bucks. Even home built
would
> probaly be out of my range. Of course, one could power it with a
> small engine.
>
> Just moveing along at displacement speed would be fine with me. I
am
> sort of relaxed and would like to stay that way.
>
> The hull of the Bolger cruiser looks to me like something that I
> would like to build. The interior arrangement looks better to me
than
> the Scoter25. But I can't tell from the book if I would really
like
> the looks of it compared to the Windscoter. Hmmmmmmmm.... And I
would
> think that use use of exterior plywood instead of marine grade
> (cost!) would matter less in Bolger vs. Devlin.
>
> Perhaps some 'composite' boat, .... the best of both????
>
> >
> > It has an almost vertical, straight stem and a flat vertical
> transom. It could perhaps be called a sedan cruiser with a
spacious
> wheelhouse that has the usual wheel and engine controls, a small
> galley and a dinette, as I recall.
> >
> > There is a pair of settee-berths under a trunk cabin forward of
the
> house, with a toilet compartment in the bow, with a large hatch
above
> it. There is a reasonably spacious self-draining cockpit aft.
> >
> > The engine specified is a shaft-drive Yanmar diesel of, I think,
27
> h.p. Bolger indicates the speed that could be achieved, but I
can't
> remember the number. The speed-length ratio is something over two,
so
> it could be considered as a planing boat.
>
> He calls for an 18 hp Yanmar. Estimated max speed, if I recall, is
10
> or 12 knots, with cruising 8 knots.
>
> > Devlin's designs all have a kind of shippy character-boat look
to
> them. PDC is conservative, even old-fashioned, but not
particularly
> stylish. I've always thought that the arrangement of the forehatch
> and foredeck on PDC look rather unattractive and would try to
think
> of some kind of alternative if I were building one -- maybe a
raised
> foredeck instead of the trunk cabin. Perhaps the boat as designed
> would look a lot better in three dimensions than it does on paper.
> >
> > I've never seen a photo of a finished boat.
>
> Yes. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I can read plans
to
> some extent, but a photo of a finished boat is what 'I' really
need.
>
> BTW, I have a copy of Gerr's book on scantlings. Bolger's boat
seems
> to fit Gerr's rules.
>
> I also have a $15 set of 'study plans' for Devlins 25' Windscoter.
It
> is a double chine. The double chine seems to work out very well.
>
> Earl Gasner
> gasner@a...
>
> >
> > Howard
'
I have a Devlin Surfscoter25 under construction, I will be glad to
attach a picture, but I don´t know how.
Claus
Earl,

If I wanted to save money on building this boat, I would save on the
engine. A Yanmar with propellor shaft, bearings, exhaust and cooling
system, remote controls, rudder, complex installation etc. would not
be cheap. I would instead make a pod aft of the transom and mount a
30 h.p. or so outboard motor on it. I reckon even a 2-stroke outboard
the far side of the transom would be quieter than a diesel in the
middle of the boat, no matter how well insulated. You would still
need a skeg, but it would be smaller than the one on the plan. The
buoyancy of the pod would support the outboard. You could compensate
for the missing diesel engine by adding ballast if necessary, or
carrying more gear. I guess you'd have to carry more fuel somewhere
to get the same range as the diesel. You might even gain enough space
to fit the dinette I wrongly thought was on the original plan.

If you bought plans from PB & F, Mr Bolger would be able to advise on
the feasibility of this suggestion. It would be easy enough to build
the pod by extending the keelson, stringers and bottom ply past the
transom and building a new angled transom to mount the outboard. The
pod would be about half the width of the transom. Of course some
might not like the look of this arrangement...

Howard

> soundproofed very well (compared to outboard), and would be, I
> assume, much cheaper than an I/O drive.
>
>
> > Engine is actually 18hp Yanmar giving an estimated 12 mph max.
> > Cruising speed expected to be 8 mph.
> Thanks. Yes, I have seen those sites. Neither have a boat that
seems
> to be up to the Devlin Windscoter. The one has a listing for a less
> expensive epoxy (system three ????)Devlin has expensive WEST in
51gal
> qty. plus very expensive hardner, and much more expensive WEST in
4.5
> gal plus hardner qty.
>
> Earl
hose links are obsolete, or at least I can't reach them.

Aaron



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> Having my own copy of BWAOM in hand, I make a couple notes:
>
> Outboard rudder. No dinette.

Outboard rudder seems O.K. to me. Lets you use an inboard that can be
soundproofed very well (compared to outboard), and would be, I
assume, much cheaper than an I/O drive.


> Engine is actually 18hp Yanmar giving an estimated 12 mph max.
> Cruising speed expected to be 8 mph.
>
> > I've never seen a photo of a finished boat.
>
> Me either.
>
> If you are interested in boats this size you might like to look
here
> (http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/)and there are some new
> designs about this size here (http://www.bateau.com/).

Thanks. Yes, I have seen those sites. Neither have a boat that seems
to be up to the Devlin Windscoter. The one has a listing for a less
expensive epoxy (system three ????)Devlin has expensive WEST in 51gal
qty. plus very expensive hardner, and much more expensive WEST in 4.5
gal plus hardner qty.

Earl


> Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, stephensonhw@a... wrote:
> >I would like to know more about this design. Is there a >picture
of the actual boat anywhere?
> >Its design is shown in Bolger's BWAOM. The website lists it as
> >available for $200 from "PBand F". What is that???
> >It also lists a 'ref. no.' as BWAOM Ch#56.
> >What does anyone think of it as compared to Devlins Wind >Scoter
22 or Wind Scoter 25?
> >Earl Gasner
>
> Earl,
>
> I hope the following doesn't repeat a lot of what you already know.
>
> "PB & F" is Phil Bolger and Friends. So if you want to order plans,
or make enquiries, you can write to the address shown at the foot of
the emails that are sent from the group i.e. Mr. Philip C. Bolger,
P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349, just in
case you visit the group's website rather than have emails sent to
you. >

O.K. Thanks. (After much grief, I finally found out how to register
with Yahoo, so I can work with the website.)


> The Plywood Diesel Cruiser (PDC for the time being) is 23'6" x7'5",
with a designed displacement of 3,090 lb. As I'm separated from my
library by over 10,000 miles, the following is from memory. It's a
single-chine hull with a moderate amount of flare in the topsides
built of ply over frames and stringers. Some -- and I'm inclined to
agree with them, particularly when you are getting to a boat this
size -- say that this means of construction is easier, or at least
less time-consuming, than the stitch-and-glue technique used with
Devlin designs.

I am considering a 'boat of this size' as a replacement for our 21'
camping trailer that we tow with our Jeep Cherokee. My sweetie, our
Westy (dog), and I. Camp on land in the boat. It would not be as good
a camper as our present camper, but it would be a much better boat. I
have to keep the cost down, but have some time, (retired), so
building a boat seems a good idea.

The Devlin Wind Scoter 22' is $41,000 (??) without power, but Devlin
claims that you can build it for 1/3 of that. Then there is cost of
trailer and cost of power. The Wind Scoter 25' would be more, but I
like the looks of it and the extra size. But Devlin has designed it
for a 135 I/O diesel drive. That is big bucks. Even home built would
probaly be out of my range. Of course, one could power it with a
small engine.

Just moveing along at displacement speed would be fine with me. I am
sort of relaxed and would like to stay that way.

The hull of the Bolger cruiser looks to me like something that I
would like to build. The interior arrangement looks better to me than
the Scoter25. But I can't tell from the book if I would really like
the looks of it compared to the Windscoter. Hmmmmmmmm.... And I would
think that use use of exterior plywood instead of marine grade
(cost!) would matter less in Bolger vs. Devlin.

Perhaps some 'composite' boat, .... the best of both????

>
> It has an almost vertical, straight stem and a flat vertical
transom. It could perhaps be called a sedan cruiser with a spacious
wheelhouse that has the usual wheel and engine controls, a small
galley and a dinette, as I recall.
>
> There is a pair of settee-berths under a trunk cabin forward of the
house, with a toilet compartment in the bow, with a large hatch above
it. There is a reasonably spacious self-draining cockpit aft.
>
> The engine specified is a shaft-drive Yanmar diesel of, I think, 27
h.p. Bolger indicates the speed that could be achieved, but I can't
remember the number. The speed-length ratio is something over two, so
it could be considered as a planing boat.

He calls for an 18 hp Yanmar. Estimated max speed, if I recall, is 10
or 12 knots, with cruising 8 knots.

> Devlin's designs all have a kind of shippy character-boat look to
them. PDC is conservative, even old-fashioned, but not particularly
stylish. I've always thought that the arrangement of the forehatch
and foredeck on PDC look rather unattractive and would try to think
of some kind of alternative if I were building one -- maybe a raised
foredeck instead of the trunk cabin. Perhaps the boat as designed
would look a lot better in three dimensions than it does on paper.
>
> I've never seen a photo of a finished boat.

Yes. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I can read plans to
some extent, but a photo of a finished boat is what 'I' really need.

BTW, I have a copy of Gerr's book on scantlings. Bolger's boat seems
to fit Gerr's rules.

I also have a $15 set of 'study plans' for Devlins 25' Windscoter. It
is a double chine. The double chine seems to work out very well.

Earl Gasner
gasner@...

>
> Howard
Having my own copy of BWAOM in hand, I make a couple notes:

Outboard rudder. No dinette.

Engine is actually 18hp Yanmar giving an estimated 12 mph max.
Cruising speed expected to be 8 mph.

> I've never seen a photo of a finished boat.

Me either.

If you are interested in boats this size you might like to look here
(http://www.by-the-sea.com/archdavisdesign/)and there are some new
designs about this size here (http://www.bateau.com/).

Peter
>I would like to know more about this design. Is there a >picture of the actual boat anywhere?
>Its design is shown in Bolger's BWAOM. The website lists it as
>available for $200 from "PBand F". What is that???
>It also lists a 'ref. no.' as BWAOM Ch#56.
>What does anyone think of it as compared to Devlins Wind >Scoter 22 or Wind Scoter 25?
>Earl Gasner

Earl,

I hope the following doesn't repeat a lot of what you already know.

"PB & F" is Phil Bolger and Friends. So if you want to order plans, or make enquiries, you can write to the address shown at the foot of the emails that are sent from the group i.e. Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349, just in case you visit the group's website rather than have emails sent to you.

The Plywood Diesel Cruiser (PDC for the time being) is 23'6" x7'5", with a designed displacement of 3,090 lb. As I'm separated from my library by over 10,000 miles, the following is from memory. It's a single-chine hull with a moderate amount of flare in the topsides built of ply over frames and stringers. Some -- and I'm inclined to agree with them, particularly when you are getting to a boat this size -- say that this means of construction is easier, or at least less time-consuming, than the stitch-and-glue technique used with Devlin designs.

It has an almost vertical, straight stem and a flat vertical transom. It could perhaps be called a sedan cruiser with a spacious wheelhouse that has the usual wheel and engine controls, a small galley and a dinette, as I recall.

There is a pair of settee-berths under a trunk cabin forward of the house, with a toilet compartment in the bow, with a large hatch above it. There is a reasonably spacious self-draining cockpit aft.

The engine specified is a shaft-drive Yanmar diesel of, I think, 27 h.p. Bolger indicates the speed that could be achieved, but I can't remember the number. The speed-length ratio is something over two, so it could be considered as a planing boat.

Devlin's designs all have a kind of shippy character-boat look to them. PDC is conservative, even old-fashioned, but not particularly stylish. I've always thought that the arrangement of the forehatch and foredeck on PDC look rather unattractive and would try to think of some kind of alternative if I were building one -- maybe a raised foredeck instead of the trunk cabin. Perhaps the boat as designed would look a lot better in three dimensions than it does on paper.

I've never seen a photo of a finished boat.

Howard
I would like to know more about this design. Is there a picture of
the actual boat anywhere?

Its design is shown in Bolger's BWAOM. The website lists it as
available for $200 from "PBand F". What is that???

It also lists a 'ref. no.' as BWAOM Ch#56.

What does anyone think of it as compared to Devlins Wind Scoter 22 or
Wind Scoter 25?

Earl Gasner
gasner@...