Re: Jochems Schooner
The external steel hasn't swept me away, but if the main concern is
water proofing the thing, then I think hardware bonding should work.
Under that system, what you do is ensure each screw is in an
oversized socket of glue, So 1/4" bolts might be in 1/2" sockets
filled with epoxy. The Gougeons have some rules of thunb on the size
of the sockets, which may have to be engineered, but if the main
purpose is waterproofness, or improving bolts or screws Where basic
sizes and numbers have already been decided) it isn't very technical.
Prefereably the sockets go right through the ply, and are capped by
the external glass. Exactly how you do that will depend on what your
building process is.
For instance imagine a full size crap ply template of the metal
ballast, with all holes drilled. These could then be transfered to
the ply bottom, and be drilled. Then you could frame them in rows
inside, and fill those rows with epoxy putty (if that is too much
putty, you could fill all the areas with lumber, just have oversized
holes where the bolts will fall. Flip the boat glass right over the
holes, flip it again, and pour epoxy into all the holes, flip it
again and install plates with bonded bolts. Stronger, and there
isn't any wood to bolt contact for rot to start. I assume the bottom
of the boat would be a shallow scow during early building, as on the
LMII, so that all this flipping wouldn't be too tiresome. If you
don't like the thought of this, consider how horrid it will be if
your holes leak, and you have to flip the whole boat, with pretty low
hopes of it ever being properly repaired.
The idea of hardware bonding is not nuts are used, the glue alone
seals the holes. However, you can include nuts, and use the epoxy
buffer just to issolate the ballast/bolts from the wood.
water proofing the thing, then I think hardware bonding should work.
Under that system, what you do is ensure each screw is in an
oversized socket of glue, So 1/4" bolts might be in 1/2" sockets
filled with epoxy. The Gougeons have some rules of thunb on the size
of the sockets, which may have to be engineered, but if the main
purpose is waterproofness, or improving bolts or screws Where basic
sizes and numbers have already been decided) it isn't very technical.
Prefereably the sockets go right through the ply, and are capped by
the external glass. Exactly how you do that will depend on what your
building process is.
For instance imagine a full size crap ply template of the metal
ballast, with all holes drilled. These could then be transfered to
the ply bottom, and be drilled. Then you could frame them in rows
inside, and fill those rows with epoxy putty (if that is too much
putty, you could fill all the areas with lumber, just have oversized
holes where the bolts will fall. Flip the boat glass right over the
holes, flip it again, and pour epoxy into all the holes, flip it
again and install plates with bonded bolts. Stronger, and there
isn't any wood to bolt contact for rot to start. I assume the bottom
of the boat would be a shallow scow during early building, as on the
LMII, so that all this flipping wouldn't be too tiresome. If you
don't like the thought of this, consider how horrid it will be if
your holes leak, and you have to flip the whole boat, with pretty low
hopes of it ever being properly repaired.
The idea of hardware bonding is not nuts are used, the glue alone
seals the holes. However, you can include nuts, and use the epoxy
buffer just to issolate the ballast/bolts from the wood.
The modified LMII that's being built in Quebec has a steel plate
bottom. They've got good shots on line of the installation process.
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
bottom. They've got good shots on line of the installation process.
>Hello Peter,--
>Here are my thoughts (for what they are worth...)
>1. Steel plate:
>The thought is good. I had almost finished the boat as the option
>came up. No way I would ever apply those plates in the upright
>position. I don't like the seventy and some wholes you have to make
>in the bottom. I doubt if the compound will strengthen the bottom.
>To me it looks like the plywood bottom stiffens the plates and not
>vice versa. I think the plates would have to be in one piece
>lengthwise to actually stiffen the construction. But only in theory.
>In practice applying three steel plates of that size - and
>thickness - would be next to impossible.
>As initially noted: a good thought. Weight down low, the tanks could
>be used for something else and you would not have to worry about
>damaging the plywood/glass/epoxy/primer/antifouling lamination.
>
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Hello Peter,
Here are my thoughts (for what they are worth...)
1. Steel plate:
The thought is good. I had almost finished the boat as the option
came up. No way I would ever apply those plates in the upright
position. I don't like the seventy and some wholes you have to make
in the bottom. I doubt if the compound will strengthen the bottom.
To me it looks like the plywood bottom stiffens the plates and not
vice versa. I think the plates would have to be in one piece
lengthwise to actually stiffen the construction. But only in theory.
In practice applying three steel plates of that size - and
thickness - would be next to impossible.
As initially noted: a good thought. Weight down low, the tanks could
be used for something else and you would not have to worry about
damaging the plywood/glass/epoxy/primer/antifouling lamination.
2. Water ballast.
Well. I did finish the tanks - because I never seriously considered
alternatives untill I had finished them... I have a seaberth for my
boat and don't have to worry about trailering. In a couple of weeks
Esmeralda will be carried from its present location abt 100 yards
from the water to its proper element by a fork truck (or whatever it
is called). No need for flooding/emptying tanks. And I worried abt
having water in more or less closed tanks unavailable for complete
inspection.
What did I do? I bought lead pigs and fastened them to the bottom of
the tanks with epoxy... If you want a video with impressions of my
first trips last year I will be happy to send you a VHS.
Bjørn
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Seabird Aviation Australia Pty Ltd"
<seabirdaust@o...> wrote:
Here are my thoughts (for what they are worth...)
1. Steel plate:
The thought is good. I had almost finished the boat as the option
came up. No way I would ever apply those plates in the upright
position. I don't like the seventy and some wholes you have to make
in the bottom. I doubt if the compound will strengthen the bottom.
To me it looks like the plywood bottom stiffens the plates and not
vice versa. I think the plates would have to be in one piece
lengthwise to actually stiffen the construction. But only in theory.
In practice applying three steel plates of that size - and
thickness - would be next to impossible.
As initially noted: a good thought. Weight down low, the tanks could
be used for something else and you would not have to worry about
damaging the plywood/glass/epoxy/primer/antifouling lamination.
2. Water ballast.
Well. I did finish the tanks - because I never seriously considered
alternatives untill I had finished them... I have a seaberth for my
boat and don't have to worry about trailering. In a couple of weeks
Esmeralda will be carried from its present location abt 100 yards
from the water to its proper element by a fork truck (or whatever it
is called). No need for flooding/emptying tanks. And I worried abt
having water in more or less closed tanks unavailable for complete
inspection.
What did I do? I bought lead pigs and fastened them to the bottom of
the tanks with epoxy... If you want a video with impressions of my
first trips last year I will be happy to send you a VHS.
Bjørn
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Seabird Aviation Australia Pty Ltd"
<seabirdaust@o...> wrote:
> I would like to contact Bjorn Harbo - Jochems Schooner builder.options for steel plate and/or water ballast on schooner.
>
> If you read this Bjorn, I would like to get your thoughts on the
>
>
> Peter Adams
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would like to contact Bjorn Harbo - Jochems Schooner builder.
If you read this Bjorn, I would like to get your thoughts on the options for steel plate and/or water ballast on schooner.
Peter Adams
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you read this Bjorn, I would like to get your thoughts on the options for steel plate and/or water ballast on schooner.
Peter Adams
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]