RE: [bolger] Re: Formica bottom
Howdy
Sounds like an Idea to try on my river boat when I build it. I was
thinking of using UMHW plastic. I got a feeling that Formica would be a
little cheaper. I wonder if it is too brittle to take rock impacts in
cold water.
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
Sounds like an Idea to try on my river boat when I build it. I was
thinking of using UMHW plastic. I got a feeling that Formica would be a
little cheaper. I wonder if it is too brittle to take rock impacts in
cold water.
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harry James [mailto:welshman@...]
> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 6:52 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Formica bottom
>
>
> In lieu of fiberglass, yes, 5200 the only fastening. Weighted
> while the 5200
> set up I presume, I didn't ask, how he held it down. He would
> like to try the
> contact cement that is used normally to put down Formica to
> see how it would
> work but hasn't had the nerve so far.
>
> I think it is way to brittle to screw or fasten.
In lieu of fiberglass, yes, 5200 the only fastening. Weighted while the 5200
set up I presume, I didn't ask, how he held it down. He would like to try the
contact cement that is used normaly to put down formica to see how it would
work but hasn't had the nerve so far.
I think it is way to brittle to screw or fasten.
HJ
set up I presume, I didn't ask, how he held it down. He would like to try the
contact cement that is used normaly to put down formica to see how it would
work but hasn't had the nerve so far.
I think it is way to brittle to screw or fasten.
HJ
> I'm assuming this is a sheathing in lieu of fibreglass over the
> plywood bottom, yes? Does he vacuum bag it? Or weight it down? I
> can't imagine you'd want a hundred scre holes in a this layer of
> formica.
>
>
> Bruce Hector
>
>
I'm assuming this is a sheathing in lieu of fibreglass over the
plywood bottom, yes? Does he vacuum bag it? Or weight it down? I
can't imagine you'd want a hundred scre holes in a this layer of
formica.
Bruce Hector
plywood bottom, yes? Does he vacuum bag it? Or weight it down? I
can't imagine you'd want a hundred scre holes in a this layer of
formica.
Bruce Hector
I ran across Mark Zeiger's brother Dave in Fred Meyers the other day. You
can see some of his Bolger boats on Mark's web page.
http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/DaveAnke.html
We talked about the Gull projects that some of us are building, as he is on
his second one. He uses counter top Formica on his bottoms, acquired as
seconds from a cabinet maker. Our beaches are very rocky with sharp mussels
and barnacles. He said that Anke can haul the boat up the beach by herself,
where it took both of them in pre Formica days. Coming down the beach he says
is fingertip action to get it moving.
He had problems with voids on the first glue he used, but the last bottom was
put on with a thin coating of 5200 with no problems so far.
HJ
can see some of his Bolger boats on Mark's web page.
http://www.alaska.net/~mzeiger/DaveAnke.html
We talked about the Gull projects that some of us are building, as he is on
his second one. He uses counter top Formica on his bottoms, acquired as
seconds from a cabinet maker. Our beaches are very rocky with sharp mussels
and barnacles. He said that Anke can haul the boat up the beach by herself,
where it took both of them in pre Formica days. Coming down the beach he says
is fingertip action to get it moving.
He had problems with voids on the first glue he used, but the last bottom was
put on with a thin coating of 5200 with no problems so far.
HJ
I use System Three and I believe they specify a window of 72 hours
when you will acheive a chemical bond, without sanding, to a
previously coated surface. My experience in a dry heated shop has
shown me that I don't get any blush in 24 hours and I go right to
laying cloth after checking for bumps of epoxy.
fritz koschmann
when you will acheive a chemical bond, without sanding, to a
previously coated surface. My experience in a dry heated shop has
shown me that I don't get any blush in 24 hours and I go right to
laying cloth after checking for bumps of epoxy.
fritz koschmann
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Leoandsandy@J... wrote:
> Fritz- if you coat the day before, isn't it then necessary to
sand the
> whole thing before going on? Leo
Fritz- if you coat the day before, isn't it then necessary to sand the
whole thing before going on? Leo
whole thing before going on? Leo
>For big epoxy jobs I get a mixer-helper. It goes much faster if youThe above is my number one best tip for glassing large jobs. My wife
>have someone mixing while you concentrate on spreading.
helped me glass my second (soon to be finished) dory, and the results
were much, much better.
-D
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
For big epoxy jobs I get a mixer-helper. It goes much faster if you
have someone mixing while you concentrate on spreading. Also I never
apply cloth to bare wood. Coat the surface with resin the day before
glassing, you won't have any outgassing problems. You also avoid the
problem of resin starved cloth when the wood soaks up the resin
pulling it away from the cloth.
fritz koschmann
www.thegreatsea.com
have someone mixing while you concentrate on spreading. Also I never
apply cloth to bare wood. Coat the surface with resin the day before
glassing, you won't have any outgassing problems. You also avoid the
problem of resin starved cloth when the wood soaks up the resin
pulling it away from the cloth.
fritz koschmann
www.thegreatsea.com
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "timk_smith" <timk_smith@f...> wrote:
> i glassed a 4x16-foot panel last night using west system's
> recommended method and it was.....meditative. mix a little
> batch, spread with squeegee, saturate carefully, repeat....over 16
> feet, there was lots and lots of time for meditation. there are
> many more panels to go. have any of you figured out ways to
> speed this work up? or would this be a good point in life to
listen
> to Proust on audiotape?
When glassing large areas on the boats that I have built I mixed
large batches of epoxy using slow hardener (MAS), dumped it on and
spread it out with a plastic squeegee and never had a problem. How
big were the batches, you might ask - well, I can't remember exactly,
but I think on the order of a pint. The only real concern is that it
not kick too soon.
Paul Thober
Aboard the Samantha
"There is one time for awakening - that time is now"
large batches of epoxy using slow hardener (MAS), dumped it on and
spread it out with a plastic squeegee and never had a problem. How
big were the batches, you might ask - well, I can't remember exactly,
but I think on the order of a pint. The only real concern is that it
not kick too soon.
Paul Thober
Aboard the Samantha
"There is one time for awakening - that time is now"
Sam,
That's classic!
I'm gonna print this in big font and hang it on my shop wall for my next
glassing session :-)
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Glasscock [mailto:glasscocklanding@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:44 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] the zen of glassing large panels
But Grasshopper, think of the panel. Time it
begrudges not, and knows not. Neither the resin, nor
the catalyst. Is not the hand that makes the
lamination indeed the lamination? Therefore be the
panel, the resin, the catalyst and the cloth, the hand
and the lamination, and the illusion of time will
trouble you not.
That's classic!
I'm gonna print this in big font and hang it on my shop wall for my next
glassing session :-)
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Glasscock [mailto:glasscocklanding@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:44 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] the zen of glassing large panels
But Grasshopper, think of the panel. Time it
begrudges not, and knows not. Neither the resin, nor
the catalyst. Is not the hand that makes the
lamination indeed the lamination? Therefore be the
panel, the resin, the catalyst and the cloth, the hand
and the lamination, and the illusion of time will
trouble you not.
All of my panels were 4' X 40'. First of all, I used the slow Raka hardener.
I tried to work in the coolest part of the day or evening. Most importantly,
I used the adhesive applicator roller covers made by Linzer (Home Depot
carries them). They are made for a full sized paint roller, but I cut them
in half and use a 4" roller because it and the smaller tray is easier to
handle. I can spread epoxy and wet out FG cloth more than twice as fast with
these as with a squeegee. Short lengths of these roller covers, split
lengthwise on the bandsaw and wedged into a kerf in the end of a stick, make
good brushes -- cheaper and better than foam or chip brushes.
The downside is that they cost over $3 each, so cut in half it is still over
$1.50. However, I read an article in BOATBUILDING magazine by Renn Tolman on
these applicators and how he cleans and reuses his. It works.
Another tip I got from a friend who works at a local boat shop is that if
your epoxy bubbles from outgassing of the wood, you can make it smooth
before it cures by exposing it to the outer flame of a propane torch. You
keep the torch moving and don't use the inner blue flame. I've tried it. It
works, too.
Vince Chew
I tried to work in the coolest part of the day or evening. Most importantly,
I used the adhesive applicator roller covers made by Linzer (Home Depot
carries them). They are made for a full sized paint roller, but I cut them
in half and use a 4" roller because it and the smaller tray is easier to
handle. I can spread epoxy and wet out FG cloth more than twice as fast with
these as with a squeegee. Short lengths of these roller covers, split
lengthwise on the bandsaw and wedged into a kerf in the end of a stick, make
good brushes -- cheaper and better than foam or chip brushes.
The downside is that they cost over $3 each, so cut in half it is still over
$1.50. However, I read an article in BOATBUILDING magazine by Renn Tolman on
these applicators and how he cleans and reuses his. It works.
Another tip I got from a friend who works at a local boat shop is that if
your epoxy bubbles from outgassing of the wood, you can make it smooth
before it cures by exposing it to the outer flame of a propane torch. You
keep the torch moving and don't use the inner blue flame. I've tried it. It
works, too.
Vince Chew
Sam - LOL .
I do the later, lay the cloth on dry, pour epoxy down the middle, start with
a notched trowel, move slow and steady so you don't induce a lot of air
bubbles, then finish and smooth with a regular flat trowel. As it's
curing, a light mist with de-natured alcohol in a spray bottle helps break
the surface tension for a short time and allows a lot of the air bubbles to
dissipate.
Very flammable when you do this with the alcohol so be careful but it does
work. I just open the garage and turn everything off. It evaporates fast
and doesn't harm the epoxy.
Jeff
I do the later, lay the cloth on dry, pour epoxy down the middle, start with
a notched trowel, move slow and steady so you don't induce a lot of air
bubbles, then finish and smooth with a regular flat trowel. As it's
curing, a light mist with de-natured alcohol in a spray bottle helps break
the surface tension for a short time and allows a lot of the air bubbles to
dissipate.
Very flammable when you do this with the alcohol so be careful but it does
work. I just open the garage and turn everything off. It evaporates fast
and doesn't harm the epoxy.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Glasscock" <glasscocklanding@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] the zen of glassing large panels
> But Grasshopper, think of the panel. Time it
> begrudges not, and knows not. Neither the resin, nor
> the catalyst. Is not the hand that makes the
> lamination indeed the lamination? Therefore be the
> panel, the resin, the catalyst and the cloth, the hand
> and the lamination, and the illusion of time will
> trouble you not.
> Either that, or use a slow catalyst in a large
> batch, put the cloth on dry, pour out the epoxy
> heavily all down the middle, and spread it quick.
> Either way works pretty good. Sam
> --- timk_smith <timk_smith@...> wrote:
> > i glassed a 4x16-foot panel last night using west
> > system's
> > recommended method and it was.....meditative. mix
> > a little
> > batch, spread with squeegee, saturate carefully,
> > repeat....over 16
> > feet, there was lots and lots of time for
> > meditation. there are
> > many more panels to go. have any of you figured out
> > ways to
> > speed this work up? or would this be a good point
> > in life to listen
> > to Proust on audiotape?
> >
> >
>
>
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But Grasshopper, think of the panel. Time it
begrudges not, and knows not. Neither the resin, nor
the catalyst. Is not the hand that makes the
lamination indeed the lamination? Therefore be the
panel, the resin, the catalyst and the cloth, the hand
and the lamination, and the illusion of time will
trouble you not.
Either that, or use a slow catalyst in a large
batch, put the cloth on dry, pour out the epoxy
heavily all down the middle, and spread it quick.
Either way works pretty good. Sam
--- timk_smith <timk_smith@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
begrudges not, and knows not. Neither the resin, nor
the catalyst. Is not the hand that makes the
lamination indeed the lamination? Therefore be the
panel, the resin, the catalyst and the cloth, the hand
and the lamination, and the illusion of time will
trouble you not.
Either that, or use a slow catalyst in a large
batch, put the cloth on dry, pour out the epoxy
heavily all down the middle, and spread it quick.
Either way works pretty good. Sam
--- timk_smith <timk_smith@...> wrote:
> i glassed a 4x16-foot panel last night using west__________________________________________________
> system's
> recommended method and it was.....meditative. mix
> a little
> batch, spread with squeegee, saturate carefully,
> repeat....over 16
> feet, there was lots and lots of time for
> meditation. there are
> many more panels to go. have any of you figured out
> ways to
> speed this work up? or would this be a good point
> in life to listen
> to Proust on audiotape?
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
Well one WEST recomended method if flow coating, so you mix a large
bucket, and spread it fast. Most moving the material around, and
trying to get it in there is a waste of time(no idea how you did it,
but this is one problem people have). Gravity and time are your
friends. WEST 205-206 is thicker than some, so again letting it take
the time it takes is faster than trying to push it in. Spread it out
over a large area, let it sink in. However don't allow it to pool,
and you have to be able to squeegee the excess off onto the next
sheet, or area before it gels. As I have mentioned time quite a bit,
it should be evident the hardener is a factor. You can't let it sit,
if it is kicking too fast, you won't have the time to move the resin
over before it gels etc...
Also, temps in certain areas are still low enough that can be a
factor in penetration. WEST is designed for 70 deg, and thereabouts.
bucket, and spread it fast. Most moving the material around, and
trying to get it in there is a waste of time(no idea how you did it,
but this is one problem people have). Gravity and time are your
friends. WEST 205-206 is thicker than some, so again letting it take
the time it takes is faster than trying to push it in. Spread it out
over a large area, let it sink in. However don't allow it to pool,
and you have to be able to squeegee the excess off onto the next
sheet, or area before it gels. As I have mentioned time quite a bit,
it should be evident the hardener is a factor. You can't let it sit,
if it is kicking too fast, you won't have the time to move the resin
over before it gels etc...
Also, temps in certain areas are still low enough that can be a
factor in penetration. WEST is designed for 70 deg, and thereabouts.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "timk_smith" <timk_smith@f...> wrote:
> i glassed a 4x16-foot panel last night using west system's
> recommended method and it was.....meditative. mix a little
> batch, spread with squeegee, saturate carefully, repeat....over 16
> feet, there was lots and lots of time for meditation. there are
> many more panels to go. have any of you figured out ways to
> speed this work up? or would this be a good point in life to
listen
> to Proust on audiotape?
i glassed a 4x16-foot panel last night using west system's
recommended method and it was.....meditative. mix a little
batch, spread with squeegee, saturate carefully, repeat....over 16
feet, there was lots and lots of time for meditation. there are
many more panels to go. have any of you figured out ways to
speed this work up? or would this be a good point in life to listen
to Proust on audiotape?
recommended method and it was.....meditative. mix a little
batch, spread with squeegee, saturate carefully, repeat....over 16
feet, there was lots and lots of time for meditation. there are
many more panels to go. have any of you figured out ways to
speed this work up? or would this be a good point in life to listen
to Proust on audiotape?