Re: Premature Goudeonulation
see below
probably good. Some cheap luan does NOT check, at least for quite a
while, and can be happy with latex house paint, which also sticks well
to epoxy if you wash and sand first. (be sure to wash before putting
epoxy over epoxy and sand if the first application is more than a couple
of days old). I think the two main points of glassing are to prevent
checking and to make things more abrasion resistant. However, I'm
guessing glass and epoxy can keep the water away from really cheap luan
longer. Not a problem with our luan boat, but who knows what luan is
like now, a few years later? I bought my glass at Defender, which might
be at www.defenderus.com. You could get 1 oz glass, though it's harder
to use. If you're keeping the boat in shelter, think seriously about
skipping most of the glass and painting a light color to reduce solar
thermal stresses.
flat ahead of time. But glassing is a lot of work and you may not need
it. Unless you already have it, using West like that is going to bust
your budget. I've been happy with Raka, which is much cheaper. There are
other inexpensive brands, too.Not sure, but I think epoxy alone may be
better for plain lumber than for ply as it is probably less prone to
checking (those pesky little cracks)
glass/polyester.
>choochawaga wrote:Not necessarily, tho of course glass at the joints and chines is
>
>I'm building Teal. Right now I'm in the process of joining the
>forward and after sections of the sides to the midsections...my
>question is this...well...the questions are many...
>Should I fiberglass with cloth and West System the whole boat?
>
probably good. Some cheap luan does NOT check, at least for quite a
while, and can be happy with latex house paint, which also sticks well
to epoxy if you wash and sand first. (be sure to wash before putting
epoxy over epoxy and sand if the first application is more than a couple
of days old). I think the two main points of glassing are to prevent
checking and to make things more abrasion resistant. However, I'm
guessing glass and epoxy can keep the water away from really cheap luan
longer. Not a problem with our luan boat, but who knows what luan is
like now, a few years later? I bought my glass at Defender, which might
be at www.defenderus.com. You could get 1 oz glass, though it's harder
to use. If you're keeping the boat in shelter, think seriously about
skipping most of the glass and painting a light color to reduce solar
thermal stresses.
>Can I West System without fiberglass cloth? (I am using cloth in theIf you use light glass it may be much easier to glass all the pieces
>joining of the end pieces? Can I fiberglass and West System the all
>of the flat pieces before final assembly or will the pieces be too
>rigid for bending? Should I just fiberglass and West System the
>inside pieces before assembly and then do the outside after assembly?
>Is there ever a time for just using West System without fiberglass
>cloth?
>
>
flat ahead of time. But glassing is a lot of work and you may not need
it. Unless you already have it, using West like that is going to bust
your budget. I've been happy with Raka, which is much cheaper. There are
other inexpensive brands, too.Not sure, but I think epoxy alone may be
better for plain lumber than for ply as it is probably less prone to
checking (those pesky little cracks)
>Ps The thrill is gone. Learning boatbuilding skills has ruined meMoi, at right price and workmanship. But not if heavy, floppy
>for Messing About In Boats. I just got the latest in the mail
>yesterday and the excitement wasn't there. I used to love to treasure
>hunt in the boats for sale section but who wants to buy a boat when
>you can build one and mostly a wooden one to boot.
>
glass/polyester.
In a vain attempt to calm myself down I saught solace by emotionally
leaning on a neighbor(not God's vicar here on earth next door, but
acrossed the street)whom I told that I was going to or not going to
do this or that because I wasn't building a fine piece of furniture
to which he replied, with making the motions of writing something
with his empty right hand as if it was holding a pen onto the palm of
his left hand as if it was a writing pad and saying, "Let me get this
down for the tomb stone, " Here lies David, who didn't want a fine
piece of furniture" which the need for arose because I cut
perfectionist corners.
leaning on a neighbor(not God's vicar here on earth next door, but
acrossed the street)whom I told that I was going to or not going to
do this or that because I wasn't building a fine piece of furniture
to which he replied, with making the motions of writing something
with his empty right hand as if it was holding a pen onto the palm of
his left hand as if it was a writing pad and saying, "Let me get this
down for the tomb stone, " Here lies David, who didn't want a fine
piece of furniture" which the need for arose because I cut
perfectionist corners.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A." <marka@h...> wrote:
> Chooch,
>
> I'd go so far as to say, "Don't bother." Either it will check or it
won't and that may be
> 2 years from now. Does it make sense spending a hundred dollars
glassing a $20 boat? Are
> you building a monument to craftsmanship or your first messaround?
>
> 2 cents, please,
> Mark
>
> fountainb@s... wrote:
> >
> > choochawaga wrote:
> > > so since I'm not experienced at all I'll probably
> > > just knee jerk into my usuall obsessive compulsive reaction and
just
> > > over do it by glassing everything in site with 40 oz cloth and a
> > > cement truck full of epoxy.
> >
> > Just glass the outside (checking usually occurs on the
> > outer face of a curve) and use the lightest glass you
> > can find. No point busting your gut.
> >
> > Bruce Fountain
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > Union Switch & Signal
> > Perth, Western Australia
Chooch,
I'd go so far as to say, "Don't bother." Either it will check or it won't and that may be
2 years from now. Does it make sense spending a hundred dollars glassing a $20 boat? Are
you building a monument to craftsmanship or your first messaround?
2 cents, please,
Mark
fountainb@...wrote:
I'd go so far as to say, "Don't bother." Either it will check or it won't and that may be
2 years from now. Does it make sense spending a hundred dollars glassing a $20 boat? Are
you building a monument to craftsmanship or your first messaround?
2 cents, please,
Mark
fountainb@...wrote:
>
> choochawaga wrote:
> > so since I'm not experienced at all I'll probably
> > just knee jerk into my usuall obsessive compulsive reaction and just
> > over do it by glassing everything in site with 40 oz cloth and a
> > cement truck full of epoxy.
>
> Just glass the outside (checking usually occurs on the
> outer face of a curve) and use the lightest glass you
> can find. No point busting your gut.
>
> Bruce Fountain
> Senior Software Engineer
> Union Switch & Signal
> Perth, Western Australia
choochawaga wrote:
outer face of a curve) and use the lightest glass you
can find. No point busting your gut.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> so since I'm not experienced at all I'll probablyJust glass the outside (checking usually occurs on the
> just knee jerk into my usuall obsessive compulsive reaction and just
> over do it by glassing everything in site with 40 oz cloth and a
> cement truck full of epoxy.
outer face of a curve) and use the lightest glass you
can find. No point busting your gut.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
Hi Bruce,
I'm using real cheap ply. I have no idea what kind of wood it is.
The worker at Home Depot thought that it was some kind of rain forest
wood taking the place of luan.
Ok...you answered in your first line what I was going to ask...so if
it's cheap ply then I can glass to keep it from checking.
Since I'm not experienced at all in wooden boats except for a $150
Atlantic City life guard boat that I owned for a week and then had to
sell because my boat club didn't want lead paint chips flying all
over the place and the condo community I lived in at the time said I
could work on it but only on the outer perimeter of the property
where there was no electricity and water and my father wouldn't let
me work on it on his property and so subquently I had to put it back
up for adoption where she ended up back in the hands of a friend who
just happened to be an ex Atlantic City lifeguard from about four
decades before...so since I'm not experienced at all I'll probably
just knee jerk into my usuall obsessive compulsive reaction and just
over do it by glassing everything in site with 40 oz cloth and a
cement truck full of epoxy.
I'm using real cheap ply. I have no idea what kind of wood it is.
The worker at Home Depot thought that it was some kind of rain forest
wood taking the place of luan.
Ok...you answered in your first line what I was going to ask...so if
it's cheap ply then I can glass to keep it from checking.
Since I'm not experienced at all in wooden boats except for a $150
Atlantic City life guard boat that I owned for a week and then had to
sell because my boat club didn't want lead paint chips flying all
over the place and the condo community I lived in at the time said I
could work on it but only on the outer perimeter of the property
where there was no electricity and water and my father wouldn't let
me work on it on his property and so subquently I had to put it back
up for adoption where she ended up back in the hands of a friend who
just happened to be an ex Atlantic City lifeguard from about four
decades before...so since I'm not experienced at all I'll probably
just knee jerk into my usuall obsessive compulsive reaction and just
over do it by glassing everything in site with 40 oz cloth and a
cement truck full of epoxy.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, fountainb@s... wrote:
> gssparhawk wrote:
> > A much-stated theme of the experienced is that cloth is good
> > for abrasion resistance--that should mean, exterior.
>
> The other reason people glass the exterior is to stop the
> ply from checking. Depending on the type of ply you are
> using this may or may not be a problem. I used just epoxy
> without glass (then paint and varnish) to seal the exterior
> of my daughter's D4 and that worked well, but it was good
> marine ply and didn't check. If the ply checks then it
> breaks the seal and you have wasted your epoxy.
>
> Bruce Fountain
> Senior Software Engineer
> Union Switch & Signal
> Perth, Western Australia
gssparhawk wrote:
ply from checking. Depending on the type of ply you are
using this may or may not be a problem. I used just epoxy
without glass (then paint and varnish) to seal the exterior
of my daughter's D4 and that worked well, but it was good
marine ply and didn't check. If the ply checks then it
breaks the seal and you have wasted your epoxy.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> A much-stated theme of the experienced is that cloth is goodThe other reason people glass the exterior is to stop the
> for abrasion resistance--that should mean, exterior.
ply from checking. Depending on the type of ply you are
using this may or may not be a problem. I used just epoxy
without glass (then paint and varnish) to seal the exterior
of my daughter's D4 and that worked well, but it was good
marine ply and didn't check. If the ply checks then it
breaks the seal and you have wasted your epoxy.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
A much-stated theme of the experienced is that cloth is good for abrasion resistance--that should mean, exterior. And there are much better fabrics other than glass for that purpose. The basic strength should come from the wood panel. the goodge is more for water resistance . The film will stiffen the wood panel quite a bit and provide some surface resistance to dings--better than the wood alone. I'm getting more inclined to not use the goodge as much for coating and instead, using aluminum paint for water barrier and house paint for finish. Epoxy is still the top gun for gluing but in reality is overkill. It is a quick filler for the grain over wood to be clear finished. One or two coats can deliver the surface to a very smooth base for the finish wheras more coats would be necessary for varnish-based material. We have tended to see epoxy as the modern snake-oil--good for everything--especially the pocket lining of the manufacturers. I have surely slathered my share onto a boat or two and I am now seeking to use less without sacrificing my realistic goals.
--- Original Message -----
From: choochawaga
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:58 PM
Subject: [bolger] Premature Goudeonulation
I'm building Teal. Right now I'm in the process of joining the
forward and after sections of the sides to the midsections...my
question is this...well...the questions are many...
Should I fiberglass with cloth and West System the whole boat?
Can I West System without fiberglass cloth? (I am using cloth in the
joining of the end pieces? Can I fiberglass and West System the all
of the flat pieces before final assembly or will the pieces be too
rigid for bending? Should I just fiberglass and West System the
inside pieces before assembly and then do the outside after assembly?
Is there ever a time for just using West System without fiberglass
cloth?
Ps The thrill is gone. Learning boatbuilding skills has ruined me
for Messing About In Boats. I just got the latest in the mail
yesterday and the excitement wasn't there. I used to love to treasure
hunt in the boats for sale section but who wants to buy a boat when
you can build one and mostly a wooden one to boot.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Original Message -----
From: choochawaga
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:58 PM
Subject: [bolger] Premature Goudeonulation
I'm building Teal. Right now I'm in the process of joining the
forward and after sections of the sides to the midsections...my
question is this...well...the questions are many...
Should I fiberglass with cloth and West System the whole boat?
Can I West System without fiberglass cloth? (I am using cloth in the
joining of the end pieces? Can I fiberglass and West System the all
of the flat pieces before final assembly or will the pieces be too
rigid for bending? Should I just fiberglass and West System the
inside pieces before assembly and then do the outside after assembly?
Is there ever a time for just using West System without fiberglass
cloth?
Ps The thrill is gone. Learning boatbuilding skills has ruined me
for Messing About In Boats. I just got the latest in the mail
yesterday and the excitement wasn't there. I used to love to treasure
hunt in the boats for sale section but who wants to buy a boat when
you can build one and mostly a wooden one to boot.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm building Teal. Right now I'm in the process of joining the
forward and after sections of the sides to the midsections...my
question is this...well...the questions are many...
Should I fiberglass with cloth and West System the whole boat?
Can I West System without fiberglass cloth? (I am using cloth in the
joining of the end pieces? Can I fiberglass and West System the all
of the flat pieces before final assembly or will the pieces be too
rigid for bending? Should I just fiberglass and West System the
inside pieces before assembly and then do the outside after assembly?
Is there ever a time for just using West System without fiberglass
cloth?
Ps The thrill is gone. Learning boatbuilding skills has ruined me
for Messing About In Boats. I just got the latest in the mail
yesterday and the excitement wasn't there. I used to love to treasure
hunt in the boats for sale section but who wants to buy a boat when
you can build one and mostly a wooden one to boot.
forward and after sections of the sides to the midsections...my
question is this...well...the questions are many...
Should I fiberglass with cloth and West System the whole boat?
Can I West System without fiberglass cloth? (I am using cloth in the
joining of the end pieces? Can I fiberglass and West System the all
of the flat pieces before final assembly or will the pieces be too
rigid for bending? Should I just fiberglass and West System the
inside pieces before assembly and then do the outside after assembly?
Is there ever a time for just using West System without fiberglass
cloth?
Ps The thrill is gone. Learning boatbuilding skills has ruined me
for Messing About In Boats. I just got the latest in the mail
yesterday and the excitement wasn't there. I used to love to treasure
hunt in the boats for sale section but who wants to buy a boat when
you can build one and mostly a wooden one to boot.