Re: [bolger] Re: God Be With Me, For Today I Read Directions
We are trying for a first class finish on one of the Glouchester Gulls
we are building. Epoxy over fiberglas requires a lot of effort to get a
super smooth finish on so you can get that wet look on the finish coat
of paint. After cutting out the side panels and sanding the butt joint
smooth, we laid fiberglas on and after the epoxy kicked a bit to tack it
on, spread out a thick layer of epoxy and let mean old Mr. Gravity do
his work leveling it out on the flat surface. We let the first coat of
epoxy kick a bit to hold the fiberglas down as it will float. The West
system manual calls this Flo Coating.
After the epoxy had set up enough to not flow any more, I raised the
middles up a foot or two because I was worried about bending the sides.
After the epoxy had set up Mary Ann (it's her boat) used an inline air
sander and sanded the sides while they lay flat. They came out looking
good, and bent on the form easily.
I believe Vince Chew has done something similar in his Dakota building.
HJ
choochawaga wrote:
we are building. Epoxy over fiberglas requires a lot of effort to get a
super smooth finish on so you can get that wet look on the finish coat
of paint. After cutting out the side panels and sanding the butt joint
smooth, we laid fiberglas on and after the epoxy kicked a bit to tack it
on, spread out a thick layer of epoxy and let mean old Mr. Gravity do
his work leveling it out on the flat surface. We let the first coat of
epoxy kick a bit to hold the fiberglas down as it will float. The West
system manual calls this Flo Coating.
After the epoxy had set up enough to not flow any more, I raised the
middles up a foot or two because I was worried about bending the sides.
After the epoxy had set up Mary Ann (it's her boat) used an inline air
sander and sanded the sides while they lay flat. They came out looking
good, and bent on the form easily.
I believe Vince Chew has done something similar in his Dakota building.
HJ
choochawaga wrote:
>"Flo-coated"?
>
>No, I haven't fiberglassed first...only the joints...I'm considering
>doing the whole sides and whole bottom first...I'm apprehensive
>though if that will make everthing too rigid and more susceptible to
>breakage when bending on.
>
>
>---
>
It's my understanding and experience that for 1/4" ply, one layer of
6oz (or 8?) glass on each side of the joint, if neatly done with epoxy,
is plenty strong. For 3/8", I seem to recall that two layers is enough.
If there are gaps, that's another story. The butt straps are there to
save you the trouble of splicing the sheets with glass or by scarphing.
(Ok, I haven't looked at the plan so if there's something like a mast
step that intersects with the butt straps, that's another story, but I
seem to recall no)
6oz (or 8?) glass on each side of the joint, if neatly done with epoxy,
is plenty strong. For 3/8", I seem to recall that two layers is enough.
If there are gaps, that's another story. The butt straps are there to
save you the trouble of splicing the sheets with glass or by scarphing.
(Ok, I haven't looked at the plan so if there's something like a mast
step that intersects with the butt straps, that's another story, but I
seem to recall no)
>David Jost wrote:
>
>I was going to say yes, because your ply is weak in that area.
>However, it would be just as good if not better at this point to
>slightly grind the area and apply three layers of cloth set in epoxy
>over the area (each layer slightly wider than the next. This should
>be just as strong as the butt straps and slightly easier to install,
>clean, and maintain. (please wear gloves, respirator, and eye
>protection when doing this). You will need to paint the area, as
>epoxy will fail if left exposed to direct sunlight for long periods
>of time.
>
>Happy Boating
>David Jost
>
"Flo-coated"?
No, I haven't fiberglassed first...only the joints...I'm considering
doing the whole sides and whole bottom first...I'm apprehensive
though if that will make everthing too rigid and more susceptible to
breakage when bending on.
No, I haven't fiberglassed first...only the joints...I'm considering
doing the whole sides and whole bottom first...I'm apprehensive
though if that will make everthing too rigid and more susceptible to
breakage when bending on.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
> If I understand you correctly what you have is 1/4 in ply wood
butted
> together with 4 oz cloth and epoxy on the inside and outside of the
> plywood sheets and across the butts. That should be plenty strong.
>
> I gather that you have fiberglassed the wood before assembly. We
are
> doing one of the Gulls we are building that way. I
> flo-coated the fiberglas with a second coat of epoxy while it was
> laying flat and it was then sanded with an in line 17" long air
sander
> while laying flat. It seemed like an easy way to get a real good
base
> for the paint before assembly. We are going for a 1 ft finish on
that boat.
>
> HJ
>
> choochawaga wrote:
>
> >Hi Harry,
> >I've already got 4 oz cloth and West System on each side of the
four
> >joints. So?????
> >
> >Also, do you know if those buttstraps are supposed to be on the
> >inside of the four side joints and do according to plan are they
to
> >remain there permenantly?
> >
> >
> >
> >
How long is the Marshall and is it wood or fiberglass or were
Marshall's always fiberglass...
If I only had a Marshall Sandpiper right now all of my troubles would
be gone.
Marshall's always fiberglass...
If I only had a Marshall Sandpiper right now all of my troubles would
be gone.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
>
> the cool thing about building your own boat is that you really get
a
> lot of control over the final product. I recently sold my Micro
that
> I slaved over for a couple of years. It was overbuilt with 6 oz
> glass set in epoxy on all exposed surfaces and marine grade lumber
> and ply throughout. I am now reconditioning a 1968 Marshall
Catboat,
> the thing that has struck me throughout is how I would have
> approached the initial construction in a much different fashion
than
> even a good boat such as a Marshall.
>
> On another note: Bolger does not waste wood, glue, or anything in
his
> designs. Like Frank Lloyd Wright, form follows function.
>
> Today I replaced, filled, and sanded two 35 year old bronze through
> hulls. It struck me immediatly how much easier it would have been
to
> do on Micro than on this cat. there is a lot to say about building
> in wood.
>
> Perhaps my next project will be an AS 29.
>
>
> Happy Boating,
> David Jost
Ok...this is how and where the anyeurism gets accelerated...I have
4 oz cloth and I have no clue how thick my plywood is so it's not
exactly what you reference and now what you say won't apply and I
need to have something relate to something that is related to what I
have and do so perfectly or the imperfect knowledge of what to do
will drive me nuts and and and I don't have a clue what I'm saying...
4 oz cloth and I have no clue how thick my plywood is so it's not
exactly what you reference and now what you say won't apply and I
need to have something relate to something that is related to what I
have and do so perfectly or the imperfect knowledge of what to do
will drive me nuts and and and I don't have a clue what I'm saying...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
> It's my understanding and experience that for 1/4" ply, one layer
of
> 6oz (or 8?) glass on each side of the joint, if neatly done with
epoxy,
> is plenty strong. For 3/8", I seem to recall that two layers is
enough.
> If there are gaps, that's another story. The butt straps are there
to
> save you the trouble of splicing the sheets with glass or by
scarphing.
> (Ok, I haven't looked at the plan so if there's something like a
mast
> step that intersects with the butt straps, that's another story,
but I
> seem to recall no)
>
> >David Jost wrote:
> >
> >I was going to say yes, because your ply is weak in that area.
> >However, it would be just as good if not better at this point to
> >slightly grind the area and apply three layers of cloth set in
epoxy
> >over the area (each layer slightly wider than the next. This
should
> >be just as strong as the butt straps and slightly easier to
install,
> >clean, and maintain. (please wear gloves, respirator, and eye
> >protection when doing this). You will need to paint the area, as
> >epoxy will fail if left exposed to direct sunlight for long
periods
> >of time.
> >
> >Happy Boating
> >David Jost
> >
the cool thing about building your own boat is that you really get a
lot of control over the final product. I recently sold my Micro that
I slaved over for a couple of years. It was overbuilt with 6 oz
glass set in epoxy on all exposed surfaces and marine grade lumber
and ply throughout. I am now reconditioning a 1968 Marshall Catboat,
the thing that has struck me throughout is how I would have
approached the initial construction in a much different fashion than
even a good boat such as a Marshall.
On another note: Bolger does not waste wood, glue, or anything in his
designs. Like Frank Lloyd Wright, form follows function.
Today I replaced, filled, and sanded two 35 year old bronze through
hulls. It struck me immediatly how much easier it would have been to
do on Micro than on this cat. there is a lot to say about building
in wood.
Perhaps my next project will be an AS 29.
Happy Boating,
David Jost
lot of control over the final product. I recently sold my Micro that
I slaved over for a couple of years. It was overbuilt with 6 oz
glass set in epoxy on all exposed surfaces and marine grade lumber
and ply throughout. I am now reconditioning a 1968 Marshall Catboat,
the thing that has struck me throughout is how I would have
approached the initial construction in a much different fashion than
even a good boat such as a Marshall.
On another note: Bolger does not waste wood, glue, or anything in his
designs. Like Frank Lloyd Wright, form follows function.
Today I replaced, filled, and sanded two 35 year old bronze through
hulls. It struck me immediatly how much easier it would have been to
do on Micro than on this cat. there is a lot to say about building
in wood.
Perhaps my next project will be an AS 29.
Happy Boating,
David Jost
Thanks, Dave.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> I have not built Teal, but in Point skiff, they remain a part of
the
> boat. They are not in the way at all. I beveled the edges of mine
> so that the crud would not get hung up there as we launch from a
very
> muddy clam flat. No real problems in 15 years.
>
> David Jost
I have not built Teal, but in Point skiff, they remain a part of the
boat. They are not in the way at all. I beveled the edges of mine
so that the crud would not get hung up there as we launch from a very
muddy clam flat. No real problems in 15 years.
David Jost
boat. They are not in the way at all. I beveled the edges of mine
so that the crud would not get hung up there as we launch from a very
muddy clam flat. No real problems in 15 years.
David Jost
If I understand you correctly what you have is 1/4 in ply wood butted
together with 4 oz cloth and epoxy on the inside and outside of the
plywood sheets and across the butts. That should be plenty strong.
I gather that you have fiberglassed the wood before assembly. We are
doing one of the Gulls we are building that way. I
flo-coated the fiberglas with a second coat of epoxy while it was
laying flat and it was then sanded with an in line 17" long air sander
while laying flat. It seemed like an easy way to get a real good base
for the paint before assembly. We are going for a 1 ft finish on that boat.
HJ
choochawaga wrote:
together with 4 oz cloth and epoxy on the inside and outside of the
plywood sheets and across the butts. That should be plenty strong.
I gather that you have fiberglassed the wood before assembly. We are
doing one of the Gulls we are building that way. I
flo-coated the fiberglas with a second coat of epoxy while it was
laying flat and it was then sanded with an in line 17" long air sander
while laying flat. It seemed like an easy way to get a real good base
for the paint before assembly. We are going for a 1 ft finish on that boat.
HJ
choochawaga wrote:
>Hi Harry,
>I've already got 4 oz cloth and West System on each side of the four
>joints. So?????
>
>Also, do you know if those buttstraps are supposed to be on the
>inside of the four side joints and do according to plan are they to
>remain there permenantly?
>
>
>
>
Dave, it's Dave...
According to plan...do you know if there is to be a buttstrap at each
of the four side joints and are they to remain there permenantly?
According to plan...do you know if there is to be a buttstrap at each
of the four side joints and are they to remain there permenantly?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
> I was going to say yes, because your ply is weak in that area.
> However, it would be just as good if not better at this point to
> slightly grind the area and apply three layers of cloth set in
epoxy
> over the area (each layer slightly wider than the next. This should
> be just as strong as the butt straps and slightly easier to
install,
> clean, and maintain. (please wear gloves, respirator, and eye
> protection when doing this). You will need to paint the area, as
> epoxy will fail if left exposed to direct sunlight for long periods
> of time.
>
> Happy Boating
> David Jost
Hi Harry,
I've already got 4 oz cloth and West System on each side of the four
joints. So?????
Also, do you know if those buttstraps are supposed to be on the
inside of the four side joints and do according to plan are they to
remain there permenantly?
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
I've already got 4 oz cloth and West System on each side of the four
joints. So?????
Also, do you know if those buttstraps are supposed to be on the
inside of the four side joints and do according to plan are they to
remain there permenantly?
-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote:
> If it is 1/4 in ply, all you need is 1 layer.epoxy
>
> HJ
>
> dnjost wrote:
>
> >I was going to say yes, because your ply is weak in that area.
> >However, it would be just as good if not better at this point to
> >slightly grind the area and apply three layers of cloth set in
> >over the area (each layer slightly wider than the next. Thisshould
> >be just as strong as the butt straps and slightly easier toinstall,
> >clean, and maintain. (please wear gloves, respirator, and eyeperiods
> >protection when doing this). You will need to paint the area, as
> >epoxy will fail if left exposed to direct sunlight for long
> >of time.
> >
> >Happy Boating
> >David Jost
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
If it is 1/4 in ply, all you need is 1 layer.
HJ
dnjost wrote:
HJ
dnjost wrote:
>I was going to say yes, because your ply is weak in that area.
>However, it would be just as good if not better at this point to
>slightly grind the area and apply three layers of cloth set in epoxy
>over the area (each layer slightly wider than the next. This should
>be just as strong as the butt straps and slightly easier to install,
>clean, and maintain. (please wear gloves, respirator, and eye
>protection when doing this). You will need to paint the area, as
>epoxy will fail if left exposed to direct sunlight for long periods
>of time.
>
>Happy Boating
>David Jost
>
>
>
>
>
I was going to say yes, because your ply is weak in that area.
However, it would be just as good if not better at this point to
slightly grind the area and apply three layers of cloth set in epoxy
over the area (each layer slightly wider than the next. This should
be just as strong as the butt straps and slightly easier to install,
clean, and maintain. (please wear gloves, respirator, and eye
protection when doing this). You will need to paint the area, as
epoxy will fail if left exposed to direct sunlight for long periods
of time.
Happy Boating
David Jost
However, it would be just as good if not better at this point to
slightly grind the area and apply three layers of cloth set in epoxy
over the area (each layer slightly wider than the next. This should
be just as strong as the butt straps and slightly easier to install,
clean, and maintain. (please wear gloves, respirator, and eye
protection when doing this). You will need to paint the area, as
epoxy will fail if left exposed to direct sunlight for long periods
of time.
Happy Boating
David Jost
Oh boy. I'm getting overwhelmed. I'm weak.
This all refers to the building of Teal.
I'm supposed to cut out four buttstraps, 3/8" by 4". Ok. I understand
that.
Where am I attatching the four buttstraps? One over each joint where
the after and forward sections of the sides are attatched to the mid
sections? Do these stay on?
I've already fiberglassed and butted together the after and forward
sections to the mid sections. Do I still need the buttstraps?
Since the buttstraps will be epoxied to already epoxied wood do I
need to prepare the already epoxied wood in some way?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "choochawaga" <soulinvictus@c...>
wrote:
This all refers to the building of Teal.
I'm supposed to cut out four buttstraps, 3/8" by 4". Ok. I understand
that.
Where am I attatching the four buttstraps? One over each joint where
the after and forward sections of the sides are attatched to the mid
sections? Do these stay on?
I've already fiberglassed and butted together the after and forward
sections to the mid sections. Do I still need the buttstraps?
Since the buttstraps will be epoxied to already epoxied wood do I
need to prepare the already epoxied wood in some way?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "choochawaga" <soulinvictus@c...>
wrote:
> This morning I fiberglassed and epoxied the last four side butjoints
> where the end addendums are added to the 8 foot mid sections. Sonow
> there is fiber glass and epoxy on both sides of the sides where thethat
> extensions are joined.
> And the bottom is done but not exactly the way it was portrayed in
> the plans because I canabalized the bottom from the Featherwind
> I started to build.from
> Up to now I've tried really hard to avoid reading any directions
> Bolger or Payson concerning the construction of Teal and I haveone
> purchased both the plans and the green Payson book, Instant Boats,
> where the construction of Teal in written about.
> The reason I try not to read dirctions is a couple of fold...for
> thing I'll obsessively compulsively ruminate about having to doof
> everything perfectly to prescribed plan which will drive me and the
> whole neighborhood absolutely nuts. I made the mistake of reading
> the Bible cover to cover thirty some odd years ago and you should
> here some the ancient prohibitions that have stuck in my head and
> plague me today. (There are actually 613 commandments, not just 10).
> And/or while reading I'll try and jam all I can in as fast as I can
> and remember nothing. And/or I'll read about health risks on
> chemical cans of paint and epoxy and never ever ever ever build
> anything nor ever ever ever enter a hardware store again for fear
> chemical emination inhalation from completely sealed cans andbottles
> that aren't eminating anything.come
> Oh, but I must progress, so today, I read...God be with me.
> Ps Maybe you guys could just tell me what to do...it can be a group
> project...I'm not proud...I don't have to do it all myself...oh
> on...it will be fun...whudaya say?
The cans do leak, you may be cursed, and you can allways direct
yourself.J --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "choochawaga"
<soulinvictus@c...> wrote:
yourself.J --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "choochawaga"
<soulinvictus@c...> wrote:
> This morning I fiberglassed and epoxied the last four side butjoints
> where the end addendums are added to the 8 foot mid sections. Sonow
> there is fiber glass and epoxy on both sides of the sides where thethat
> extensions are joined.
> And the bottom is done but not exactly the way it was portrayed in
> the plans because I canabalized the bottom from the Featherwind
> I started to build.from
> Up to now I've tried really hard to avoid reading any directions
> Bolger or Payson concerning the construction of Teal and I haveone
> purchased both the plans and the green Payson book, Instant Boats,
> where the construction of Teal in written about.
> The reason I try not to read dirctions is a couple of fold...for
> thing I'll obsessively compulsively ruminate about having to doof
> everything perfectly to prescribed plan which will drive me and the
> whole neighborhood absolutely nuts. I made the mistake of reading
> the Bible cover to cover thirty some odd years ago and you should
> here some the ancient prohibitions that have stuck in my head and
> plague me today. (There are actually 613 commandments, not just 10).
> And/or while reading I'll try and jam all I can in as fast as I can
> and remember nothing. And/or I'll read about health risks on
> chemical cans of paint and epoxy and never ever ever ever build
> anything nor ever ever ever enter a hardware store again for fear
> chemical emination inhalation from completely sealed cans andbottles
> that aren't eminating anything.come
> Oh, but I must progress, so today, I read...God be with me.
> Ps Maybe you guys could just tell me what to do...it can be a group
> project...I'm not proud...I don't have to do it all myself...oh
> on...it will be fun...whudaya say?
This morning I fiberglassed and epoxied the last four side but joints
where the end addendums are added to the 8 foot mid sections. So now
there is fiber glass and epoxy on both sides of the sides where the
extensions are joined.
And the bottom is done but not exactly the way it was portrayed in
the plans because I canabalized the bottom from the Featherwind that
I started to build.
Up to now I've tried really hard to avoid reading any directions from
Bolger or Payson concerning the construction of Teal and I have
purchased both the plans and the green Payson book, Instant Boats,
where the construction of Teal in written about.
The reason I try not to read dirctions is a couple of fold...for one
thing I'll obsessively compulsively ruminate about having to do
everything perfectly to prescribed plan which will drive me and the
whole neighborhood absolutely nuts. I made the mistake of reading
the Bible cover to cover thirty some odd years ago and you should
here some the ancient prohibitions that have stuck in my head and
plague me today. (There are actually 613 commandments, not just 10).
And/or while reading I'll try and jam all I can in as fast as I can
and remember nothing. And/or I'll read about health risks on
chemical cans of paint and epoxy and never ever ever ever build
anything nor ever ever ever enter a hardware store again for fear of
chemical emination inhalation from completely sealed cans and bottles
that aren't eminating anything.
Oh, but I must progress, so today, I read...God be with me.
Ps Maybe you guys could just tell me what to do...it can be a group
project...I'm not proud...I don't have to do it all myself...oh come
on...it will be fun...whudaya say?
where the end addendums are added to the 8 foot mid sections. So now
there is fiber glass and epoxy on both sides of the sides where the
extensions are joined.
And the bottom is done but not exactly the way it was portrayed in
the plans because I canabalized the bottom from the Featherwind that
I started to build.
Up to now I've tried really hard to avoid reading any directions from
Bolger or Payson concerning the construction of Teal and I have
purchased both the plans and the green Payson book, Instant Boats,
where the construction of Teal in written about.
The reason I try not to read dirctions is a couple of fold...for one
thing I'll obsessively compulsively ruminate about having to do
everything perfectly to prescribed plan which will drive me and the
whole neighborhood absolutely nuts. I made the mistake of reading
the Bible cover to cover thirty some odd years ago and you should
here some the ancient prohibitions that have stuck in my head and
plague me today. (There are actually 613 commandments, not just 10).
And/or while reading I'll try and jam all I can in as fast as I can
and remember nothing. And/or I'll read about health risks on
chemical cans of paint and epoxy and never ever ever ever build
anything nor ever ever ever enter a hardware store again for fear of
chemical emination inhalation from completely sealed cans and bottles
that aren't eminating anything.
Oh, but I must progress, so today, I read...God be with me.
Ps Maybe you guys could just tell me what to do...it can be a group
project...I'm not proud...I don't have to do it all myself...oh come
on...it will be fun...whudaya say?