Re: high speed in a Folding Schooner
--- "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
book, drawings again today, building
it in my head.
The hinges could be cut out of a
common and cheap "I" beam. With
very little welding required.
Something like a W12x16.
4'6" feet would be enough.
> I had chance to talk to my Folding SchoonerI was looking at the Folding Schooner
> -owning friend Leander last night,
book, drawings again today, building
it in my head.
The hinges could be cut out of a
common and cheap "I" beam. With
very little welding required.
Something like a W12x16.
4'6" feet would be enough.
> >> I bet a Folding Schooner on a broadI had chance to talk to my Folding Schooner-owning friend Leander
> >> reach gets up on plane and moves fast!
last night, and I put the question to him. He immediately said, yes,
it will plane. As we discussed, we also agreed that the very shallow
hull doesn't make the kind of wake that a heavy power skiff makes at
high speed. Whatever the wake, hull speed is exceeded, in Leander's
opinion.
He also said that he is amazed by how little heeling moment the rig
imparts in even a brisk wind, and that the crew is pretty comfortable
on the bottom of the boat.
Peter
Those are good points, Frank... and it may explain in part why we
don't see tabernacles, either. I would think that someone would
choose another design (Tennesee?) if they wanted a cruising
motorboat, but I don't think the AS-29 would be all that bad in that
role, anyway...
But I would be curious to see more pictures, so I'll write to Duane,
and see if he can either send some, or post some here. It can't be
too much of a chore to wander the Keys taking pictures!
He downloaded my 3D AS-29 for Virtual Sailor (that's how he
recognized it)... but I did not put openings on the deck for the
bilge boards on my model... so it would not have ocurred to him. Rich.
The Chum Bucket:
http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
don't see tabernacles, either. I would think that someone would
choose another design (Tennesee?) if they wanted a cruising
motorboat, but I don't think the AS-29 would be all that bad in that
role, anyway...
But I would be curious to see more pictures, so I'll write to Duane,
and see if he can either send some, or post some here. It can't be
too much of a chore to wander the Keys taking pictures!
He downloaded my 3D AS-29 for Virtual Sailor (that's how he
recognized it)... but I did not put openings on the deck for the
bilge boards on my model... so it would not have ocurred to him. Rich.
The Chum Bucket:
http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "sanmi" <sanmi@y...> wrote:
> Funny thing is -- I don't see any slots for the bilge board.
> Is it just the glare? And it doesn't look like there is a place
for
> the boom gallows. It looks like this boat was never meant to be
> sailed.
>
> Rich do you have any other pictures?
>
> Frank
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proto957" <helio6@h...> wrote:
> > My friend Duane, who lives in the Keys (lucky guy) says this AS-
29
> > has been sunk in about 3 feet of water on a key near Nest Key
since
> > last October. He used to see the boat anchored out from MM 99 in
> Key
> > Largo, but thinks it was moved to the mangroves at it's present
> > location to avoid a hurricane. Here is a pic of the boat:
> >http://www.put.com/~proto57/abandonedAS29.jpg
> >
> > Is this one of Paul Foctberg's fleet? Anyone know about this
boat?
> > Duane says there are some holes in the deck, and he figures it's
> > probably got some rot, as it has been filled with rainwater about
8
> > months. Rich SantaColoma
Funny thing is -- I don't see any slots for the bilge board.
Is it just the glare? And it doesn't look like there is a place for
the boom gallows. It looks like this boat was never meant to be
sailed.
Rich do you have any other pictures?
Frank
Is it just the glare? And it doesn't look like there is a place for
the boom gallows. It looks like this boat was never meant to be
sailed.
Rich do you have any other pictures?
Frank
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proto957" <helio6@h...> wrote:
> My friend Duane, who lives in the Keys (lucky guy) says this AS-29
> has been sunk in about 3 feet of water on a key near Nest Key since
> last October. He used to see the boat anchored out from MM 99 in
Key
> Largo, but thinks it was moved to the mangroves at it's present
> location to avoid a hurricane. Here is a pic of the boat:
>http://www.put.com/~proto57/abandonedAS29.jpg
>
> Is this one of Paul Foctberg's fleet? Anyone know about this boat?
> Duane says there are some holes in the deck, and he figures it's
> probably got some rot, as it has been filled with rainwater about 8
> months. Rich SantaColoma
If you're going to go that route, I have one that can make ANY Bolger
boat that you can stand in a carrier, at least in calm enough weather. I
can catch it in my hand or land on maybe a 3X3 piece of ply with
arrestor cables if I add a hook, and maybe if I don't. Much cheaper.
Craig O'Donnell wrote:
boat that you can stand in a carrier, at least in calm enough weather. I
can catch it in my hand or land on maybe a 3X3 piece of ply with
arrestor cables if I add a hook, and maybe if I don't. Much cheaper.
Craig O'Donnell wrote:
> I think you might just put a small inboard Honda engine and fly 1/24
> scale R/C planes off it.
> --
Wood can rot almost anywhere.
Some species are more resistant to rot organisms than others.
The Australian & British standards for marine ply
specify (amongst other things) that it must be made
from a short-list of rot-resistant timber species.
Structural-grade ply doesn't.
I don't know what rules apply in North America.
cheers
Alan J.
Some species are more resistant to rot organisms than others.
The Australian & British standards for marine ply
specify (amongst other things) that it must be made
from a short-list of rot-resistant timber species.
Structural-grade ply doesn't.
I don't know what rules apply in North America.
cheers
Alan J.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Spelling" <richard@...>
Date: Thursday, June 5, 2003 2:33 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: abandoned AS-29 in the Florida Keys...
> Does wood rot in salt water?
>
>> I bet a Folding Schooner on a broadI've had my Scooner on plane on a broad reach with only a crew of two
>> reach gets up on plane and moves fast!
>
>Based on one sail in a FS (and the boat's maiden sail at that), I am
>not so sure that it will plane, for two reasons. First, it's hard for
>the crew to hike out enough to get the sail carrying power required,
>and, second, she's so light and narrow for her length that she's not
>really governed by the usual hull speed phenomenon. Sort of a
>monomoran. I remember a very thrilling WHOOOOOSH!
and no hiking out.
Wind was strong enough to be making whitecaps on Lake Montauk. We
could barely go to weather because we were so wildly over canvassed.
We'd claw our way to the West side of the lake, sailing on our ear
the whole way. Once we had a little searoom, we'd fall off for these
rocket like broad reaches. When a gust would hit us and heal us over
on the reach, we'd fall off some more, and let the gust try and sink
the planing bow (which it couldn't, so we'd just go faster!)
I bet the Folding Schooner would do just the same thing.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
> I bet a Folding Schooner on a broadBased on one sail in a FS (and the boat's maiden sail at that), I am
> reach gets up on plane and moves fast!
not so sure that it will plane, for two reasons. First, it's hard for
the crew to hike out enough to get the sail carrying power required,
and, second, she's so light and narrow for her length that she's not
really governed by the usual hull speed phenomenon. Sort of a
monomoran. I remember a very thrilling WHOOOOOSH!
Peter
I think you might just put a small inboard Honda engine and fly 1/24
scale R/C planes off it.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
scale R/C planes off it.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by friend.ly.net.]
--- "Peter Lenihan" wrote:
$10,000, I guess.
Looking close at the photos, it
appears (to my eyes) that not
only are the spars missing,
but so are the tabernacles.
Could it be that the boat was
'power only', perhaps for use
as a shanty boat?
Judging from the placement of
the windows, [correctly located
per plans for an AS-29], I agree
that it is an AS-29.
> in a heart beat with a trailerAn AS-29 has to be worth around
> and some pumps.Worse case scenario?
$10,000, I guess.
Looking close at the photos, it
appears (to my eyes) that not
only are the spars missing,
but so are the tabernacles.
Could it be that the boat was
'power only', perhaps for use
as a shanty boat?
Judging from the placement of
the windows, [correctly located
per plans for an AS-29], I agree
that it is an AS-29.
Well I've always heard you Northerners where a little daring and on the
crazy side.
After watching some of the rescue shows for the Coast Guard crews, hat's off
to all of them. I couldn't do it but I'm glad they do!
Jeff
crazy side.
After watching some of the rescue shows for the Coast Guard crews, hat's off
to all of them. I couldn't do it but I'm glad they do!
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 11:32 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: abandoned AS-29 in the Florida Keys...
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
> > Don't forget the winch down! Can't land a helo on a pitching deck
> without
> > one! Maybe one could rig up a windlass for double duty!
> >
> > Jeff
> >
>
>
> Jeff,
> I just watched a Discovery program about Canadian military pilots
> flying Sea Kings on training flights in the North
> Atlantic.Apparently,these crazy Canadians are something of a breed
> apart.When conditions are too rough for choppers,they call in the
> Canadians.They can land on anything,winch downs or not!Now if only we
> could get the right spare parts to stop the Sea Kings from falling
> apart at critical moments,we'd have something to really brag about :-
> )
>
> Peter L.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeff" <boatbuilding@g...> wrote:
I just watched a Discovery program about Canadian military pilots
flying Sea Kings on training flights in the North
Atlantic.Apparently,these crazy Canadians are something of a breed
apart.When conditions are too rough for choppers,they call in the
Canadians.They can land on anything,winch downs or not!Now if only we
could get the right spare parts to stop the Sea Kings from falling
apart at critical moments,we'd have something to really brag about :-
)
Peter L.
> Don't forget the winch down! Can't land a helo on a pitching deckwithout
> one! Maybe one could rig up a windlass for double duty!Jeff,
>
> Jeff
>
I just watched a Discovery program about Canadian military pilots
flying Sea Kings on training flights in the North
Atlantic.Apparently,these crazy Canadians are something of a breed
apart.When conditions are too rough for choppers,they call in the
Canadians.They can land on anything,winch downs or not!Now if only we
could get the right spare parts to stop the Sea Kings from falling
apart at critical moments,we'd have something to really brag about :-
)
Peter L.
Don't forget the winch down! Can't land a helo on a pitching deck without
one! Maybe one could rig up a windlass for double duty!
Jeff
one! Maybe one could rig up a windlass for double duty!
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 11:10 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: abandoned AS-29 in the Florida Keys...
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...> >
> Mind you, you'd need a pretty short landing plane, have to
> > maneuverable too, to side slip around the mizzen on final.
>
> Bruce,
> Slide slip my slip.......its high time for a civilian helicopter
> carrier,I say, and you're our man for the job :-). The mizzen could
> be lowered aft,like a giant boomkin,and approach lights set along her
> length for those late night flights over to the reservation for some
> cheap booze.......We'd keep the mainmast up to discourage the police
> helicopters and/or other rank amateur pilots from messing with
> us......arrrgh! Matey!
>
> Sincerely,
> Peter Lenihan,expert helicopter pilot( in my dreams at anyrate) and
> deviant tax cheating rabbel rousing boat bum s.v.p.........
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...>
wrote:
is"pickled". The big problem would be the laminations soaking up so
much water that the combined swelling would ruin the integrity of the
glue joints.
But then again,perhaps this boat was built with top shelf marine
ply,super-saturated with epoxy,then covered with a barrier coat
followed by two part enamel.In which case,she may be dirty,dinged and
damaged but very much worth salvaging for"free".
If I lived in the "sunshine state",I'd book off sick from work and
skidaddle down there in a heart beat with a trailer and some
pumps.Worse case scenario? I've had some exercise, a break from work
and the chance to set her ablaze for the weenie roast of all weenie
roasts with friends to give comfort at my disappointment that she is
just too far gone(built cheap and slopply).Otherwise, it is almost
an "instant boat" just waiting for some prince to render the magic
kiss!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,in the right time of year but the wrong country,rats!
wrote:
> Does wood rot in salt water?Only if it comes in contact with fresh water,me thinks, otherwise it
is"pickled". The big problem would be the laminations soaking up so
much water that the combined swelling would ruin the integrity of the
glue joints.
But then again,perhaps this boat was built with top shelf marine
ply,super-saturated with epoxy,then covered with a barrier coat
followed by two part enamel.In which case,she may be dirty,dinged and
damaged but very much worth salvaging for"free".
If I lived in the "sunshine state",I'd book off sick from work and
skidaddle down there in a heart beat with a trailer and some
pumps.Worse case scenario? I've had some exercise, a break from work
and the chance to set her ablaze for the weenie roast of all weenie
roasts with friends to give comfort at my disappointment that she is
just too far gone(built cheap and slopply).Otherwise, it is almost
an "instant boat" just waiting for some prince to render the magic
kiss!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,in the right time of year but the wrong country,rats!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...> >
Mind you, you'd need a pretty short landing plane, have to
Slide slip my slip.......its high time for a civilian helicopter
carrier,I say, and you're our man for the job :-). The mizzen could
be lowered aft,like a giant boomkin,and approach lights set along her
length for those late night flights over to the reservation for some
cheap booze.......We'd keep the mainmast up to discourage the police
helicopters and/or other rank amateur pilots from messing with
us......arrrgh! Matey!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,expert helicopter pilot( in my dreams at anyrate) and
deviant tax cheating rabbel rousing boat bum s.v.p.........
Mind you, you'd need a pretty short landing plane, have to
> maneuverable too, to side slip around the mizzen on final.Bruce,
Slide slip my slip.......its high time for a civilian helicopter
carrier,I say, and you're our man for the job :-). The mizzen could
be lowered aft,like a giant boomkin,and approach lights set along her
length for those late night flights over to the reservation for some
cheap booze.......We'd keep the mainmast up to discourage the police
helicopters and/or other rank amateur pilots from messing with
us......arrrgh! Matey!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,expert helicopter pilot( in my dreams at anyrate) and
deviant tax cheating rabbel rousing boat bum s.v.p.........
Does wood rot in salt water?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <brucehallman@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:36 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: abandoned AS-29 in the Florida Keys...
> --- "Richard Spelling" wrote:
> > Someone go out there with
> > some pumps or something and
> > salvage this boat. PLEASE?
>
> I am curious whether, when all
> is said and done, the time spend
> salvaging a [presumably] rotted
> hulk of an AS-29 would be more
> time consuming (and expensive)
> than building one from scratch?
>
> The only way to know is to try.
>
> ===
>
> I was re-reading PCB's book
> _Folding Schooner_ last night and
> found there are several boats in that
> book that beg to be built.
>
> Recreational Rowboat for one;
> and Rondo would be real fun; &
> I think a Folding Schooner could
> be knocked out in a few weekends!
>
> I bet a Folding Schooner on a broad
> reach gets up on plane and moves fast!
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- "Richard Spelling" wrote:
is said and done, the time spend
salvaging a [presumably] rotted
hulk of an AS-29 would be more
time consuming (and expensive)
than building one from scratch?
The only way to know is to try.
===
I was re-reading PCB's book
_Folding Schooner_ last night and
found there are several boats in that
book that beg to be built.
Recreational Rowboat for one;
and Rondo would be real fun; &
I think a Folding Schooner could
be knocked out in a few weekends!
I bet a Folding Schooner on a broad
reach gets up on plane and moves fast!
> Someone go out there withI am curious whether, when all
> some pumps or something and
> salvage this boat. PLEASE?
is said and done, the time spend
salvaging a [presumably] rotted
hulk of an AS-29 would be more
time consuming (and expensive)
than building one from scratch?
The only way to know is to try.
===
I was re-reading PCB's book
_Folding Schooner_ last night and
found there are several boats in that
book that beg to be built.
Recreational Rowboat for one;
and Rondo would be real fun; &
I think a Folding Schooner could
be knocked out in a few weekends!
I bet a Folding Schooner on a broad
reach gets up on plane and moves fast!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@p...>
wrote:
Must admit, she has a big flat deck, shear off the dog house and
you'd be well on your way to the first sail powered civilian aircraft
carrier. Mind you, you'd need a pretty short landing plane, have to
maneuverable too, to side slip around the mizzen on final.
wrote:
> I know, let's tell Bruce about it. That will save it!Which Bruce? Bruce H. or Bruce H.??????
>
> Paul
Must admit, she has a big flat deck, shear off the dog house and
you'd be well on your way to the first sail powered civilian aircraft
carrier. Mind you, you'd need a pretty short landing plane, have to
maneuverable too, to side slip around the mizzen on final.
Exactly. Someone go out there with some pumps or something and salvage this boat. PLEASE?
If it's abandoned, in truth, whoever recovers it owns it.
If I lived in Florida I'd go out and recover it. Then, I would rename it "Zombie" or "Necromancer" or something...
:-)
If it's abandoned, in truth, whoever recovers it owns it.
If I lived in Florida I'd go out and recover it. Then, I would rename it "Zombie" or "Necromancer" or something...
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul W. Esterle" <pesterle@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: abandoned AS-29 in the Florida Keys...
> I know, let's tell Bruce about it. That will save it!
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
I know, let's tell Bruce about it. That will save it!
Paul
Paul
Don't know who owns(ed) the boat but what a heart breaker to see an
AS-29 treated like that!Should have a proper Viking funeral with
gallons of mead to sooth the soul.........
Peter L.,convinced he'll have a bad dream now that he has seen this
sad photo.....
AS-29 treated like that!Should have a proper Viking funeral with
gallons of mead to sooth the soul.........
Peter L.,convinced he'll have a bad dream now that he has seen this
sad photo.....
My friend Duane, who lives in the Keys (lucky guy) says this AS-29
has been sunk in about 3 feet of water on a key near Nest Key since
last October. He used to see the boat anchored out from MM 99 in Key
Largo, but thinks it was moved to the mangroves at it's present
location to avoid a hurricane. Here is a pic of the boat:
http://www.put.com/~proto57/abandonedAS29.jpg
Is this one of Paul Foctberg's fleet? Anyone know about this boat?
Duane says there are some holes in the deck, and he figures it's
probably got some rot, as it has been filled with rainwater about 8
months. Rich SantaColoma
has been sunk in about 3 feet of water on a key near Nest Key since
last October. He used to see the boat anchored out from MM 99 in Key
Largo, but thinks it was moved to the mangroves at it's present
location to avoid a hurricane. Here is a pic of the boat:
http://www.put.com/~proto57/abandonedAS29.jpg
Is this one of Paul Foctberg's fleet? Anyone know about this boat?
Duane says there are some holes in the deck, and he figures it's
probably got some rot, as it has been filled with rainwater about 8
months. Rich SantaColoma