Re: [bolger] Re: superply alternative or say goodbye to checking forever!

Peter,
I am happy to report that your affliction is universal and provides a wonderful justification for doing, or neglecting to do,almost everything.

For my part,it has caused me to be able roam the far places on the earth with almost no funds and be able to see things denied to the unfortunate boatless masses. It doesn't matter how small or insignificant the boat or the body of water,it's the doing that matters. I hope to remain thus afflicted till they try to screw down the lid and a grumble from within demands to know why they are wasting 316 when galv would be ok.

Anyway,it keeps us off the streets and away from normal people

Andy

Peter Lenihan <ellengaest@...> wrote:

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, andy wilson <and46y@y...> wrote:
> Maybe there are two types of boat person,the one who builds and
sets sail and the one who plans and dreams about it.

Andy,
What about the nut who likes to do both? This is invaribly what
happens to me each and every time.It begins with untold hours,weeks
and months of "wasted" time dreaming about a "perfect" boat.When the
hunt eventually leads me to tracking one down,I cannot wait to
build.Throughout the entire building process I am in 7th heaven and
the launch date some obscure event in some undetermined future.After
launching comes great adventures coupled with endless hours of use
and dream sequences for future uses.And then it happens......I begin
to grow restless( or fat,as my friends would say) and I once again
begin to "waste" time dreaming and planning of another boat.
Am I completely bonkers( or crazy,as those friends again like to
remind me) or is it just a question of not having anything really
useful to do with my life thus I remain forever stuck with the Peter
Pan syndrome?

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,with way too much time on his hands today,thanks to the
rain that Bruce sent downstream from Kingston,along the shores of the
St.Lawrence...........


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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, andy wilson <and46y@y...> wrote:

> Maybe there are two types of boat person,the one who builds and

sets sail and the one who plans and dreams about it.

Andy,
What about the nut who likes to do both? This is invaribly what
happens to me each and every time.It begins with untold hours,weeks
and months of "wasted" time dreaming about a "perfect" boat.When the
hunt eventually leads me to tracking one down,I cannot wait to
build.Throughout the entire building process I am in 7th heaven and
the launch date some obscure event in some undetermined future.After
launching comes great adventures coupled with endless hours of use
and dream sequences for future uses.And then it happens......I begin
to grow restless( or fat,as my friends would say) and I once again
begin to "waste" time dreaming and planning of another boat.
Am I completely bonkers( or crazy,as those friends again like to
remind me) or is it just a question of not having anything really
useful to do with my life thus I remain forever stuck with the Peter
Pan syndrome?

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,with way too much time on his hands today,thanks to the
rain that Bruce sent downstream from Kingston,along the shores of the
St.Lawrence...........

Good stuff Peter!
I want my boats to wear out long before they become classics.
So much good ply and fastenings have been made for home building and industry that we can slap together a pretty well indestructable floating box and just up the scantling sizes if we suspect the ultimate strength of the product. Costs a fraction of the money and gets you sailing sooner,which is the aim of the exercise,isn't it? Or is it?
Maybe there are two types of boat person,the one who builds and sets sail and the one who plans and dreams about it. Both are valid ways of living and we should co-exist and enjoy each others insights.
I love watching a whitehall skiff slide through the water . I havent the time and patience to build one but I respect those who do. In the same way I hope they understand the rough flattie that has been everywhere possible for thousands of sea miles aboard my various scruffy craft during the time it took to build the whitehall. Different strokes and we are all richer for it...........Andy

Peter Lenihan <ellengaest@...> wrote:
Bolgerados,
Bellow is a link to a company which produces an incredible
collection of neat ply panels.In particular,their MDO and HDO panels.
As some of you may already know,I am using their MDO panels
for the bottom of my WINDERMERE.In a letter to Bolger,in mid-May,I
reported on my "un-scientific" research regarding their Pourform 107
panels.
A number of samples (1' X 2') were purposely left exposed in
varying states throughout an 11 month period.These samples
experienced both extremes of temperature and different degrees of
water saturation.Some samples were left with the MDO surface facing
up while others had their untreated sides facing upwards.The water
saturation ranged from complete immersion in a muddy water filled
hole all they way to simple rainwater sitting on the surface.
After going through a late summer,cold damp fall,freezing winter and
finally a warmish wet spring, all panels were retrieved and"studied"
for panel/overlay degradation.
In none of the samples study could be found any significant
degradation other then normal weathering of the raw plywood edge and
slight fading of MDO overlay.
Attempts were then made to subject sample panels to stresses
sufficiant to cause failure(delamination) of the panel and compare
this to a control panel protected from the test conditions.
Without access to real measuring devices, I can only report
that each panel resisted my attempts to destroy them to the same
extent as the control panel.
I am using the 11/16 thickness,treated only on one side,and
laminated to 1 3/8" with there natural wood faces serving to receive
the epoxy for the bottom of Windermere and the Centerboard box and
centerboard.
An incident which occured while laminating the bottom panels
involved some laminating resin drooling off the edge of the bottom
panels and running down two "scrap" pieces of Pourform 107. As luck
would have it,these two pieces were each facing each other with their
MDO faces and it was here that the epoxy dribbled down.
Later,when retrieving these two pieces, I discovered that they
were stuck together.After a mighty struggle,I did finally manage to
pull them apart but only after the MDO overlay was completely torn
off along with some of the underlaying wood.Furthermore,the MDO
overlay had NOT been properly prepared,ie; given a light sanding,
thus it was all that more impressive to see how tenacious the bond
was to the MDO overlay.
To date, I remain very much impressed with this particular
plywood panel along with the quality of these panels......virtually
void free! Furthermore,the company warrents this product for the life
of the panel,whatever that life may be, 10 years I believe?
At anyrate, check this product out as an alternative to pure
marine ply.As a bonus for our American maniacs,this is a Canadian
product which you could probably pick up for very few of your dollars.

Here is the link:
http://www.ainsworth.ca/

Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, doing his best to encourage the average guy to get on
with building boats instead of obsessing over the small details like
BS 1199 etc......from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.......



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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
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- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> So,your mission Garth,is to find this file,post a few sketches,and
> give us all a report on how this happened(the design,that is!)

Hi all --

When you last heard my boat-longings a few months ago, I had talked
myself down from a Buehler 64' schooner to something shoal-draft so
my family (me + wife + 2 young girls) could gunkhole and beach-camp
instead of setting out into the blue yonder trans-Atlantic. I wanted
a big boat that is trailerable. We live way the hell up in the
Catskill mountains, at least three hours from the sea, more to
anywhere I'd really want to sail. Daysailing is nearly impossible --
a huge pain, and rarely worth the bother. I wanted a boat we could
trailer down to the sea and live on for a long weekend or a week. A
roving beach house for the guy too poor to afford the stationary
kind. Caprice almost suited, but didn't really have sleeping room for
four.

I was smitten with the North Carolina Sharpie in Reuel Parker's book
(33' long, 8'6" beam). (Also with Ted Brewer's "Mystic" and the Glen-
L "Chessie Flyer.") But then I thought a lot about wave slap -- at
anchor and when sailing -- and also thought that the 3'6" cabin
headroom in the Parker design was woefully low. I considered making
it a pop-top, but still thought that the big wide flat bottom would
pound in waves and keep us up at nights. The boat was gorgeous, but
somehow just a bit off in the functional department.

Being a fervent Bolgerist, ready to sacrifice form for function any
day (and ready to delight in the form that is dictated by function),
on a whim, I outlined all this to Jim Michalak and asked if he could
design a boat the had all the good attributes of of the big sharpie,
but multichined for better wave handling.

He said yes -- a scale-up of Caprice would be easy. We pushed and
pulled a few bulkheads around, and wound up with a 31' X 8'6" (that's
counting the pivoting leeboard assembly; hull itself is probably 8'
wide). It has an enclosed motor well, then an 8' long cockpit, an
18'-long cabin, divided into 3 "rooms," first a little 4' utility
room, for campstove, potty, charts, junk; then a 7' room for the
adults and the forward one for the kids' bunks. (Their delight upon
seeing "Kids' Room" on the initial drawings was worth the whole cost
of the commission right there.) Headroom in the cabin is 5', and I
plan to make a long hatch, so we can slide it open and be able to
stand and cook. (The lack of standing headroom is the only
imperfection I can think of in this design -- and with a shallow-
draft boat it's pretty much impossible to get standing headroom.)

Jim has now done ballast/stability analysis, and it looks to be self-
righting from a 103 degree knockdown. It's all water ballast -- 1100
pounds of it, no metal or concrete. Total weight of boat (drained)
will probably be 2500 pounds; so, adding trailer weight plus food,
water, and camping and diving equipment, maybe total tow weight of
4000 pounds, which is a lot, but manageable by a mid-size SUV or
truck.

I chose the name Cormorant because the bird is a bit ungainly looking
but a perfect performer. I love how cormorants are creatures of both
air and water. They seem part fish, and periodically they come up
onshore to dry their wings -- just like us beach-campers.

Draft of the boat will be about 8" or 9" -- pretty incredible for
such a big craft. I'm going to armor the hell out of the hull bottom
and sail her up onto all the isolated beaches I can find, and into
every little cove and hidey-hole that's worth exploring.

The line drawings I have look nearly identical to Caprice, and Chuck
has a good selection of those online already, so I'll steer you there:

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/caprice/index.htm

Just imagine it at 31' X 8'.

As soon as I get building, I'll keep a weblog of my progess and
report in here periodically.

Now I've got to go get some of that Pourform 107!

All best,
Garth

> At anyrate, check this product out as an alternative to pure
> marine ply.As a bonus for our American maniacs,this is a Canadian
> product which you could probably pick up for very few of your
> dollars.

Hi Peter --

How much did it cost per sheet?

I see that Ainworth claims it has more resin than other MDO, but do
you think there is any real difference between it and other MDO?

It looks very promising. I might just need to get a truckload of that
stuff myself.

(Jim Michalak is doing a 25% scale-up of his Caprice design for me.
It'll be a 31' lug-sailed yawl -- water-ballasted, trailerable,
shallow-draft, multichined. Design name: Cormorant. Whenever plans
are finished, I'll begin building.)

All best,
Garth

Bolgerados,
Bellow is a link to a company which produces an incredible
collection of neat ply panels.In particular,their MDO and HDO panels.
As some of you may already know,I am using their MDO panels
for the bottom of my WINDERMERE.In a letter to Bolger,in mid-May,I
reported on my "un-scientific" research regarding their Pourform 107
panels.
A number of samples (1' X 2') were purposely left exposed in
varying states throughout an 11 month period.These samples
experienced both extremes of temperature and different degrees of
water saturation.Some samples were left with the MDO surface facing
up while others had their untreated sides facing upwards.The water
saturation ranged from complete immersion in a muddy water filled
hole all they way to simple rainwater sitting on the surface.
After going through a late summer,cold damp fall,freezing winter and
finally a warmish wet spring, all panels were retrieved and"studied"
for panel/overlay degradation.
In none of the samples study could be found any significant
degradation other then normal weathering of the raw plywood edge and
slight fading of MDO overlay.
Attempts were then made to subject sample panels to stresses
sufficiant to cause failure(delamination) of the panel and compare
this to a control panel protected from the test conditions.
Without access to real measuring devices, I can only report
that each panel resisted my attempts to destroy them to the same
extent as the control panel.
I am using the 11/16 thickness,treated only on one side,and
laminated to 1 3/8" with there natural wood faces serving to receive
the epoxy for the bottom of Windermere and the Centerboard box and
centerboard.
An incident which occured while laminating the bottom panels
involved some laminating resin drooling off the edge of the bottom
panels and running down two "scrap" pieces of Pourform 107. As luck
would have it,these two pieces were each facing each other with their
MDO faces and it was here that the epoxy dribbled down.
Later,when retrieving these two pieces, I discovered that they
were stuck together.After a mighty struggle,I did finally manage to
pull them apart but only after the MDO overlay was completely torn
off along with some of the underlaying wood.Furthermore,the MDO
overlay had NOT been properly prepared,ie; given a light sanding,
thus it was all that more impressive to see how tenacious the bond
was to the MDO overlay.
To date, I remain very much impressed with this particular
plywood panel along with the quality of these panels......virtually
void free! Furthermore,the company warrents this product for the life
of the panel,whatever that life may be, 10 years I believe?
At anyrate, check this product out as an alternative to pure
marine ply.As a bonus for our American maniacs,this is a Canadian
product which you could probably pick up for very few of your dollars.

Here is the link:
http://www.ainsworth.ca/

Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, doing his best to encourage the average guy to get on
with building boats instead of obsessing over the small details like
BS 1199 etc......from along the shores of the St.Lawrence.......