Re: Time
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, fountainb@s... wrote:
Excellent observations there Bruce.The so called square boats
with expanses of flat surfaces can be a devil to get just
right.Proper preparation is the cure.
And it takes a good designer to get the curves right on a square
boat.I had my eyes opened once while installing the shear trim on my
Micro.No matter how I looked at it on the plan,it appeared curved
(following the shear).When installing these pieces,my muscles and
eye told me to put some swing into the piece since it curved....Well
after a dry fit,it did not look right nor did it hit the marks drawn
from the plan.I thought that maybe,just maybe Bolger had goofed.
After much playing around with these pieces I finally got them
right.And you know what....they actually sit dead straight but you
would bet your front teeth the damned thing curves!!
"Un-square" boats are much more forgiving of slight
irregularities since the eye is drawn all over the place to all
sorts of curves......
sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
>Bruce,
> Straight lines and right-angles seem easier at first glance, but
> I have learned that it is a lot easier to achieve a nice curve
> than to get a straight line to look straight. The human eye is
> pretty damn good at detecting almost-straight-lines and
> not-quite-right-angles.
>
> Bruce Fountain
> Senior Software Engineer
> Union Switch & Signal
> Perth, Western Australia
Excellent observations there Bruce.The so called square boats
with expanses of flat surfaces can be a devil to get just
right.Proper preparation is the cure.
And it takes a good designer to get the curves right on a square
boat.I had my eyes opened once while installing the shear trim on my
Micro.No matter how I looked at it on the plan,it appeared curved
(following the shear).When installing these pieces,my muscles and
eye told me to put some swing into the piece since it curved....Well
after a dry fit,it did not look right nor did it hit the marks drawn
from the plan.I thought that maybe,just maybe Bolger had goofed.
After much playing around with these pieces I finally got them
right.And you know what....they actually sit dead straight but you
would bet your front teeth the damned thing curves!!
"Un-square" boats are much more forgiving of slight
irregularities since the eye is drawn all over the place to all
sorts of curves......
sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
Craig O'Donnell wrote:
fast to build. As far as I can tell, the boxy look comes mostly
from trying to squeeze as much interior space out of the minimum
LOA and materials. Personally, I would rather build a slightly
longer boat, or live with a little less interior room, to have
a boat that makes my heart sing.
Straight lines and right-angles seem easier at first glance, but
I have learned that it is a lot easier to achieve a nice curve
than to get a straight line to look straight. The human eye is
pretty damn good at detecting almost-straight-lines and
not-quite-right-angles.
I know that there are lots of Micro fans on the list, and the design
does have a certain cute, puppy-like appeal, but I would rather
have a Chebacco any day.
Oh well, just my humble opinion. Now where did I leave my asbestos
underpants?
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> Bolger has never said you should make a cheap boat look like agold-plater.
>I don't believe that a boat has to be boxy to be either cheap or
> You could build, say, a Herreshoff H-28, even using plywood so it
> won't cost $40,000.
>
> In the meantime you could probably build 3 AS-29s in the same time
> period. The AS 29 is by no means an ugly boat though it is squared
> off.
fast to build. As far as I can tell, the boxy look comes mostly
from trying to squeeze as much interior space out of the minimum
LOA and materials. Personally, I would rather build a slightly
longer boat, or live with a little less interior room, to have
a boat that makes my heart sing.
Straight lines and right-angles seem easier at first glance, but
I have learned that it is a lot easier to achieve a nice curve
than to get a straight line to look straight. The human eye is
pretty damn good at detecting almost-straight-lines and
not-quite-right-angles.
I know that there are lots of Micro fans on the list, and the design
does have a certain cute, puppy-like appeal, but I would rather
have a Chebacco any day.
Oh well, just my humble opinion. Now where did I leave my asbestos
underpants?
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
Well, I didn't.
I agree with some of your points, but probably best to finish this
thread, because most of the Group will never see Australian Amateur
Boatbuilder.
Cheers
DonB
I agree with some of your points, but probably best to finish this
thread, because most of the Group will never see Australian Amateur
Boatbuilder.
Cheers
DonB
> He did, yes. But you certainly can't accuse him of ripping
> of Bolger's designs. >
> Bruce Fountain
> Senior Software Engineer
> Union Switch & Signal
> Perth, Western Australia
>He did, yes. But you certainly can't accuse him of rippingBolger has never said you should make a cheap boat look like a gold-plater.
>of Bolger's designs. His position was: if you are going
>to spend a huge amount of time building a boat then it
>might as well be beautiful as well as functional.
You could build, say, a Herreshoff H-28, even using plywood so it
won't cost $40,000.
In the meantime you could probably build 3 AS-29s in the same time
period. The AS 29 is by no means an ugly boat though it is squared
off.
If you look at old photos of actual fishing sharpies, flatties, etc.,
you will discover that there were a large number of very lumpy boats
which worked perfectly well for watermen. Kind of like a rusty and
dented pickup. Not every sailboat was a "beauty".
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
---
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dbaldnz wrote:
of Bolger's designs. His position was: if you are going
to spend a huge amount of time building a boat then it
might as well be beautiful as well as functional. He certainly
puts his money where his mouth is. I tend to agree, quite
honestly, I don't like boxes. Bolger has plenty of designs
that have sweet lines as well as function.
However, I felt that the editor should have exercised more
control over the article. As far as I can tell there is no
editorial control over the magazine at all. The standard of
writing is not much better than you might find in a forum
like this. Duckworks is better edited, is more regular, and
has much better graphics.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> Yes, I know of the Scruffy man, he is the fellow who slagged offHe did, yes. But you certainly can't accuse him of ripping
> Bolger big-time in that same august magazine!
of Bolger's designs. His position was: if you are going
to spend a huge amount of time building a boat then it
might as well be beautiful as well as functional. He certainly
puts his money where his mouth is. I tend to agree, quite
honestly, I don't like boxes. Bolger has plenty of designs
that have sweet lines as well as function.
However, I felt that the editor should have exercised more
control over the article. As far as I can tell there is no
editorial control over the magazine at all. The standard of
writing is not much better than you might find in a forum
like this. Duckworks is better edited, is more regular, and
has much better graphics.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
Yes, I know of the Scruffy man, he is the fellow who slagged off
Bolger big-time in that same august magazine!
DonB
Bolger big-time in that same august magazine!
DonB
> Not sure about the pillaged Bolger accusation either - PCB ishardly the
> only designer working with squarish plywood boats. And lots of theboats
> featured in AAB are definitely not square - check out the Scruffyboats
> for an example of how elegant a plywood hull can be.
>
> Bruce Fountain
> Senior Software Engineer
> Union Switch & Signal
> Perth, Western Australia
dbaldnz wrote:
all
written by designers/plansellers/boatbuildingsuppliers, so I would replace
"thinly disguised" with "undisguised". I don't have a problem with
advertorial
as long as it is obvious, after all PCB submits regular advertorial to
MAIB, yes?
I don't buy the mag anymore because the quality is just too patchy. Lousy
images, and as far as I can see no editing at all. What finally put me off
was
a nasty sledging trend.
Not sure about the pillaged Bolger accusation either - PCB is hardly the
only designer working with squarish plywood boats. And lots of the boats
featured in AAB are definitely not square - check out the Scruffy boats
for an example of how elegant a plywood hull can be.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> I don't feel the same way you do about Australian AmateurI think the advertorial charge is a bit harsh - the regular columns are
> Boatbuilder.
> The copies I have seen seem to be full of thinly disguised
> advertorial; pillaged Bolger plans, all printed on colored toilet
> paper, appearing on the shelves at odd intervals.
all
written by designers/plansellers/boatbuildingsuppliers, so I would replace
"thinly disguised" with "undisguised". I don't have a problem with
advertorial
as long as it is obvious, after all PCB submits regular advertorial to
MAIB, yes?
I don't buy the mag anymore because the quality is just too patchy. Lousy
images, and as far as I can see no editing at all. What finally put me off
was
a nasty sledging trend.
Not sure about the pillaged Bolger accusation either - PCB is hardly the
only designer working with squarish plywood boats. And lots of the boats
featured in AAB are definitely not square - check out the Scruffy boats
for an example of how elegant a plywood hull can be.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia