Re: Cheaper alternatives to epoxy
Use epoxy and glass on the joints, use marine plywood and reasonably
good paint and it will last a long time.
Paul
good paint and it will last a long time.
Paul
What West System says is sand to expose the FG cloth (you know, til
ya' see the little furries), then you'll get a good bond. But only a
good mechanical bond, not a chemical joining. The "oneness" everyone
who has tried to get cured epoxy off almost anything is familiar with.
Can't remember if this was in the Gougeon Bros. book or an Epoxyworks
magazine.
Bruce Hector
ya' see the little furries), then you'll get a good bond. But only a
good mechanical bond, not a chemical joining. The "oneness" everyone
who has tried to get cured epoxy off almost anything is familiar with.
Can't remember if this was in the Gougeon Bros. book or an Epoxyworks
magazine.
Bruce Hector
--- klglo <klglo@...> wrote: >
concise write-up on the workings of epoxy, (and it is
a free download from the Net). It states very clearly
that..." Epoxy resins may be applied over cured
polyesters which have been dewaxed and well sanded,
but polyesters must NEVER be used over cured epoxy
resins..."
Having little experience with epoxies myself, I would
assume the same rules would apply to other
manufacturers of epoxy systems.
(PS-See my other note of a few hours ago under
'Emailing: Index" - something went wrong when I was
sending it and the Epoxy Book download came through,
but without my reply.....)
http://mobile.yahoo.com.au- Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
> Are you guys sure about this? I'm pretty sure one ofThe System Three publication 'The Epoxy Book' gives a
> the books I
> borrowed from the library on an interlibrary loan
> about fiberglass
> construction said you could use epoxy for the first
> layer for better
> adhesion to the plywood, then switch to polyester
> for ecomomy. I
> haven't tried this technique so I can't speak from
> experience.
concise write-up on the workings of epoxy, (and it is
a free download from the Net). It states very clearly
that..." Epoxy resins may be applied over cured
polyesters which have been dewaxed and well sanded,
but polyesters must NEVER be used over cured epoxy
resins..."
Having little experience with epoxies myself, I would
assume the same rules would apply to other
manufacturers of epoxy systems.
(PS-See my other note of a few hours ago under
'Emailing: Index" - something went wrong when I was
sending it and the Epoxy Book download came through,
but without my reply.....)
http://mobile.yahoo.com.au- Yahoo! Mobile
- Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
--- "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
my 8 year old Roar rowboat, built
with Polyester resin, and stored
upside down, on dirt and rocks, etc.
The wood in contact with the dirt
suffered the most, with the exception
of the redwood, which remains very
solid. The unprotected edges of the
luan plywood saw some rot, but the
luan ply that was covered with polyester
resin is still holding up great, after
eight years.
I too have read, and believe, the conventional
wisdom that polyester resin doesn't stick
reliably to epoxy.
If you are looking for a cheap way to fill
the weave on the cloth, I was going to
to suggest simple paint, but then I did
the math...Raka Epoxy just cost me $39 a
gallon, $46 after freight, [but no sales
tax]. That is not much more that a
gallon of oil paint!
I think paint shrinks some, perhaps 50%
when drying. Epoxy doesn't shrink and
can be 'stretched'with thickeners, like
wood flour, or my favorite, phenolic
microballons; by at least 50%, so do
the math, ...thickened epoxy is about
the same cost as paint when used as a
weave filler.
> my experience, quite frankly, is that polyesterYesterday, I spent time going over
> doesn't remain adhered well to much of anything
my 8 year old Roar rowboat, built
with Polyester resin, and stored
upside down, on dirt and rocks, etc.
The wood in contact with the dirt
suffered the most, with the exception
of the redwood, which remains very
solid. The unprotected edges of the
luan plywood saw some rot, but the
luan ply that was covered with polyester
resin is still holding up great, after
eight years.
I too have read, and believe, the conventional
wisdom that polyester resin doesn't stick
reliably to epoxy.
If you are looking for a cheap way to fill
the weave on the cloth, I was going to
to suggest simple paint, but then I did
the math...Raka Epoxy just cost me $39 a
gallon, $46 after freight, [but no sales
tax]. That is not much more that a
gallon of oil paint!
I think paint shrinks some, perhaps 50%
when drying. Epoxy doesn't shrink and
can be 'stretched'with thickeners, like
wood flour, or my favorite, phenolic
microballons; by at least 50%, so do
the math, ...thickened epoxy is about
the same cost as paint when used as a
weave filler.
Ken,
Everything I’ve read supports the accepted wisdom that polyester will NOT
adhere well to epoxy; my experience, quite frankly, is that polyester
doesn’t remain adhered well to much of anything for an acceptable service
life…. Trust me when I say there’s no sound quite like the sound of
polyester/glass ripping off a hull while underway.
Please consider the true worth of your time and what you’re trying to do.
I’ve seen people build boats with the cheapest materials and often regret
the eventual result; by the time you’re finished, you may come to regret
not having spent a bit more. Please take the time to talk to some local
professionals about epoxy vs. polyester resin. Try polyester if you must
(budget realities face us all), but don’t try to put polyester over epoxy.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: klglo [mailto:klglo@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 7:48 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Cheaper alternatives to epoxy
Are you guys sure about this? I'm pretty sure one of the books I
borrowed from the library on an interlibrary loan about fiberglass
construction said you could use epoxy for the first layer for better
adhesion to the plywood, then switch to polyester for ecomomy. I
haven't tried this technique so I can't speak from experience. It's
been a few months since I had the book handy, so maybe I'm
misremembering. I can't remember the name of the book either, but
it also talked about molding fiberglass, gelcoats, layering
techniques, etc.
As far as using the matte goes, maybe it provides better adhesion,
but I used 10 oz cloth (as recommended in the Cartopper plans) and
Bondo's general purpose boatyard (polyester) resin with good
results. I may use a laminating resin followed by a finishing resin
if I ever build another tack and tape boat in order to reduce
intermediate sanding.
Ken
Everything I’ve read supports the accepted wisdom that polyester will NOT
adhere well to epoxy; my experience, quite frankly, is that polyester
doesn’t remain adhered well to much of anything for an acceptable service
life…. Trust me when I say there’s no sound quite like the sound of
polyester/glass ripping off a hull while underway.
Please consider the true worth of your time and what you’re trying to do.
I’ve seen people build boats with the cheapest materials and often regret
the eventual result; by the time you’re finished, you may come to regret
not having spent a bit more. Please take the time to talk to some local
professionals about epoxy vs. polyester resin. Try polyester if you must
(budget realities face us all), but don’t try to put polyester over epoxy.
David Romasco
-----Original Message-----
From: klglo [mailto:klglo@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 7:48 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Cheaper alternatives to epoxy
Are you guys sure about this? I'm pretty sure one of the books I
borrowed from the library on an interlibrary loan about fiberglass
construction said you could use epoxy for the first layer for better
adhesion to the plywood, then switch to polyester for ecomomy. I
haven't tried this technique so I can't speak from experience. It's
been a few months since I had the book handy, so maybe I'm
misremembering. I can't remember the name of the book either, but
it also talked about molding fiberglass, gelcoats, layering
techniques, etc.
As far as using the matte goes, maybe it provides better adhesion,
but I used 10 oz cloth (as recommended in the Cartopper plans) and
Bondo's general purpose boatyard (polyester) resin with good
results. I may use a laminating resin followed by a finishing resin
if I ever build another tack and tape boat in order to reduce
intermediate sanding.
Ken
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, WeBookPeople@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/5/03 6:12:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:>
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "klglo" <klglo@y...> wrote:
> > If you are worried about the initial bond with the plywood,
> > >you could use epoxy for the initial coat then fill in the
> > fiberglass with polyester.
>
> Polyester won't work over epoxy, though it will work ther other
way 'round.
>
> Polyester resin *will* bond to plywood very well if matting is
used rather
> than cloth or as a first layer followed by cloth. This is the
cheap way to give
> good protection to a cheap hull. I built a rowboat in 82 ssing
this method and
> it was still going strong when i gave it away 10 years later,
having only
> been painted a couple of times.
>
> Cheers/The Fader
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Are you guys sure about this? I'm pretty sure one of the books I
borrowed from the library on an interlibrary loan about fiberglass
construction said you could use epoxy for the first layer for better
adhesion to the plywood, then switch to polyester for ecomomy. I
haven't tried this technique so I can't speak from experience. It's
been a few months since I had the book handy, so maybe I'm
misremembering. I can't remember the name of the book either, but
it also talked about molding fiberglass, gelcoats, layering
techniques, etc.
As far as using the matte goes, maybe it provides better adhesion,
but I used 10 oz cloth (as recommended in the Cartopper plans) and
Bondo's general purpose boatyard (polyester) resin with good
results. I may use a laminating resin followed by a finishing resin
if I ever build another tack and tape boat in order to reduce
intermediate sanding.
Ken
borrowed from the library on an interlibrary loan about fiberglass
construction said you could use epoxy for the first layer for better
adhesion to the plywood, then switch to polyester for ecomomy. I
haven't tried this technique so I can't speak from experience. It's
been a few months since I had the book handy, so maybe I'm
misremembering. I can't remember the name of the book either, but
it also talked about molding fiberglass, gelcoats, layering
techniques, etc.
As far as using the matte goes, maybe it provides better adhesion,
but I used 10 oz cloth (as recommended in the Cartopper plans) and
Bondo's general purpose boatyard (polyester) resin with good
results. I may use a laminating resin followed by a finishing resin
if I ever build another tack and tape boat in order to reduce
intermediate sanding.
Ken
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, WeBookPeople@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/5/03 6:12:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:>
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "klglo" <klglo@y...> wrote:
> > If you are worried about the initial bond with the plywood,
> > >you could use epoxy for the initial coat then fill in the
> > fiberglass with polyester.
>
> Polyester won't work over epoxy, though it will work ther other
way 'round.
>
> Polyester resin *will* bond to plywood very well if matting is
used rather
> than cloth or as a first layer followed by cloth. This is the
cheap way to give
> good protection to a cheap hull. I built a rowboat in 82 ssing
this method and
> it was still going strong when i gave it away 10 years later,
having only
> been painted a couple of times.
>
> Cheers/The Fader
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In a message dated 7/5/03 6:12:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:>
Polyester resin *will* bond to plywood very well if matting is used rather
than cloth or as a first layer followed by cloth. This is the cheap way to give
good protection to a cheap hull. I built a rowboat in 82 ssing this method and
it was still going strong when i gave it away 10 years later, having only
been painted a couple of times.
Cheers/The Fader
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "klglo" <klglo@y...> wrote:Polyester won't work over epoxy, though it will work ther other way 'round.
> If you are worried about the initial bond with the plywood,
> >you could use epoxy for the initial coat then fill in the
> fiberglass with polyester.
Polyester resin *will* bond to plywood very well if matting is used rather
than cloth or as a first layer followed by cloth. This is the cheap way to give
good protection to a cheap hull. I built a rowboat in 82 ssing this method and
it was still going strong when i gave it away 10 years later, having only
been painted a couple of times.
Cheers/The Fader
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "klglo" <klglo@y...> wrote:
If you are worried about the initial bond with the plywood,
> you could use epoxy for the initial coat then fill in the
fiberglass
> with polyester.
>
> Ken
>
>
Ken,
Polyester will not form a proper bond on the epoxy.......caveat emptor
Peter Lenihan
Woody,
My Cartopper was put together with polester resin which is about
$15.00 per gallon at Jamestown Distributers. It seems to be holding
up ok. If you are worried about the initial bond with the plywood,
you could use epoxy for the initial coat then fill in the fiberglass
with polyester.
Ken
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "witts_end.geo" <waffleiron@c...>
wrote:
My Cartopper was put together with polester resin which is about
$15.00 per gallon at Jamestown Distributers. It seems to be holding
up ok. If you are worried about the initial bond with the plywood,
you could use epoxy for the initial coat then fill in the fiberglass
with polyester.
Ken
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "witts_end.geo" <waffleiron@c...>
wrote:
> Most of the discussions I've read about building boats talk ofusing
> epoxy to glass and seal the outside of the hull. After looking atof
> the prices of epoxy, I'm very discouraged. Epoxy is half the cost
> the boat (I'm going to build a small dinghy, possibly a ruebensnymph
> or John Bell's Blondie). It seems wise to use epoxy to glue theother
> joints (chines?) together because it is so strong, but can I
> compromise in a reasonable way on the hull? I think Dave Carnell
> makes an argument for using a good latex paint.
>
> I don't want to ruin my first boat by being too cheap. On the
> hand, using epoxy will double the price and make it tooexpensive. I
> am just curious what others have found.day
>
> For starters this dinghy will not be a tender. We will use it to
> sail on our protected harbor.would
>
> BTW, thanks to all who explained to me what a chine was. You
> be suprised how often that word is used when you don't know whatit
> means.formulate
>
> Woody
>
> PS - I'm sure this has been asked before. I just couldn't
> the right searches to get the answers I'm looking for.
>Check out Fritz's Whacky Lassie Page
>
>Bruce
>
http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Wacky_Lassie/Wacky_Lassie.htm
Almost to the bottom you will see where he lays down fiberglass tape in
a PL Premium fillet.
He built this 4 years ago, still going strong.
HJ
>
>Has anyone tried it as a fillet material, or thickened it with a
>filler, or tried it with FG (oe other) cloth? I've only used it as a
>wood on wood glue. But now that I've typed it, I feel the need for
>some experiments coming on . . . . . . ......
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@p...> wrote: The
PL premium sticks so well to skin that I have taken to using a tyvek
suit and latex gloves when using it.HJ
Oh yeah.... I can relate to that, I have PL still stuck to my hands
from last Saturday. I've tried every solvent I own, every abrasive
cleaner, and soaps, and creams, and goops, and the &^%$#&@ s&$% just
stays there, bonded to me forever (OK< it's slowly wearing off as my
body generates new skin). Someday I'll read ALL the directions on any
new goop I try, but for now, I'm still too stupid.
I am thankful however, that I didn't fall to sleep last Saturday
night with my hand on any ANY part of my wife's anatomy (or of mine
for that matter).
I mean, how would one explain such a circumstance to one's mistress?
Oh yeah, I know it's beside the point, but it seams to be a GREAT
substitute for epoxy in many situations.
Has anyone tried it as a fillet material, or thickened it with a
filler, or tried it with FG (oe other) cloth? I've only used it as a
wood on wood glue. But now that I've typed it, I feel the need for
some experiments coming on . . . . . . ......
Bruce Hector
Sleepy, but strangely feeling quite good after bottling three batches
of wine for my daughters wedding next weekend, today in the hot and
humid Ontario summer day, and of course finding that there was a
little (OK, a litre or so) left in each carboy that wouldn't fit in a
botttle and HAD to be disposed of right away befroe it went bad, I
mean, everyone knows this stuff just WON'T keep, right? I was lucky
that a couple of friends showed up to help, or I'd still be passed
out from the. er, exhaustion, YEAH, that's right, .....
exhaustion....of all that work.... must sleep........
PL premium sticks so well to skin that I have taken to using a tyvek
suit and latex gloves when using it.HJ
Oh yeah.... I can relate to that, I have PL still stuck to my hands
from last Saturday. I've tried every solvent I own, every abrasive
cleaner, and soaps, and creams, and goops, and the &^%$#&@ s&$% just
stays there, bonded to me forever (OK< it's slowly wearing off as my
body generates new skin). Someday I'll read ALL the directions on any
new goop I try, but for now, I'm still too stupid.
I am thankful however, that I didn't fall to sleep last Saturday
night with my hand on any ANY part of my wife's anatomy (or of mine
for that matter).
I mean, how would one explain such a circumstance to one's mistress?
Oh yeah, I know it's beside the point, but it seams to be a GREAT
substitute for epoxy in many situations.
Has anyone tried it as a fillet material, or thickened it with a
filler, or tried it with FG (oe other) cloth? I've only used it as a
wood on wood glue. But now that I've typed it, I feel the need for
some experiments coming on . . . . . . ......
Bruce Hector
Sleepy, but strangely feeling quite good after bottling three batches
of wine for my daughters wedding next weekend, today in the hot and
humid Ontario summer day, and of course finding that there was a
little (OK, a litre or so) left in each carboy that wouldn't fit in a
botttle and HAD to be disposed of right away befroe it went bad, I
mean, everyone knows this stuff just WON'T keep, right? I was lucky
that a couple of friends showed up to help, or I'd still be passed
out from the. er, exhaustion, YEAH, that's right, .....
exhaustion....of all that work.... must sleep........
We are finishing up 2 of the 3 Gull dories, one already finished. I used
PL premium on 2 of them. We have had good luck with it up here and I
find it so much easier to use than mixing epoxy. On 2 of the dories, I
Xynoled the bottom only, and fiberglassed the stem and transom seams, I
think I used Raka all the way, though I might have finished off some
system 3 at the beginning. The 3rd Dory has fiberglassed sides, and we
are going for a 1 foot finish on this one. I am having real mixed
feelings about this now after the work required to do well. The end is
in sight however and I am learning how to do a semi professional job
spray painting.
The PL premium sticks so well to skin that I have taken to using a tyvek
suit and latex gloves when using it.
HJ
Bruce Hector wrote:
PL premium on 2 of them. We have had good luck with it up here and I
find it so much easier to use than mixing epoxy. On 2 of the dories, I
Xynoled the bottom only, and fiberglassed the stem and transom seams, I
think I used Raka all the way, though I might have finished off some
system 3 at the beginning. The 3rd Dory has fiberglassed sides, and we
are going for a 1 foot finish on this one. I am having real mixed
feelings about this now after the work required to do well. The end is
in sight however and I am learning how to do a semi professional job
spray painting.
The PL premium sticks so well to skin that I have taken to using a tyvek
suit and latex gloves when using it.
HJ
Bruce Hector wrote:
>Nothing I know of beats Epoxy for strength and for bonding FG to wood
>(any wood).
>
>That being said, I have recently had some very encouraging results
>with "PL Preium" made by Lepages, as I recall the maker.
>
>Seems to be VERY strong, VERY cheap and VERY hard to get off my
>fingers. If it's half as sticky to wood as to fingers, the sucker
>will stick together forever!
>
>Just MHO (my humble opinion)
>
>Bruce Hector
>
>
>
--- "witts_end.geo" <waffleiron@c...> wrote:
It goes on real thick, and I think
that it *does* control and even
eliminate checking.
Small cheap boats don't need the
'protection' provided by epoxy.
I view them as somewhat disposable,
and don't think you should spend
a lot of money building them.
Still, Raka epoxy is pretty cheap.
I just bought 6 gallons for $239 plus
freight of about $40. You could build
several Nymphs with that.
> can I compromise in a reasonable way on the hull?Personally, I like old fashion oil paint.
It goes on real thick, and I think
that it *does* control and even
eliminate checking.
Small cheap boats don't need the
'protection' provided by epoxy.
I view them as somewhat disposable,
and don't think you should spend
a lot of money building them.
Still, Raka epoxy is pretty cheap.
I just bought 6 gallons for $239 plus
freight of about $40. You could build
several Nymphs with that.
ibelucky2002 wrote:
I suspect that I get a lot more volume for the same amount of epoxy
when using the microsphere/silica filler vs wood dust. The difference
might just pay for the filler, if you buy it in reasonably large
quantities. Saves weight too.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
> 2. Use sawdust from your belt sander as filler - works great and isI am not sure about this. I have never done any proper tests, but
> priced right.
I suspect that I get a lot more volume for the same amount of epoxy
when using the microsphere/silica filler vs wood dust. The difference
might just pay for the filler, if you buy it in reasonably large
quantities. Saves weight too.
Bruce Fountain
Senior Software Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia
Woody,
I just built a nymph using epoxy and fiberglass. You are right in
that the epoxy/glass cost was easily equal to the rest of the boat (I
kept track). However, a couple of things to consider that may help
you with your decision.
The epoxy made easy fixes of any "whoops" in cutting and
construction. It's amazing how big a hole can be filled and sanded
nice. Also, I finished the nymph about 6 weeks ago and have had it
out every weekend at least once and usually twice day sailing. It
goes in the back of my pickup and straight down the ramp without a
care. I've had to touch up the paint twice and should probably do it
after every trip. The paint doesn't seem to hold up too well to
casual use but the glass keeps the hull well protected.
If I had to do it over, I would still use fiberglass with the
following changes:
1. Search the web for the best price. Stay away from West System -
great stuff to use but they are proud of it. Raka.com seems to have
good quality and pricing. I have also heard some really cheap prices
through ebay but haven't tried it. I would have saved 40% if I had
searched.
2. Use sawdust from your belt sander as filler - works great and is
priced right.
3. Make small batches and thicken it up a lot more than you think
you should if you have never worked with it. They are serious when
they say peanut butter consistency. Thinner is harder to control,
wastes more epoxy, and doesnt fill as nicely.
Again, I would glass the entire hull on a nymph or similar boat. I
would just glass the bottom on a bolger sharpie or michalak AF style
boat.
Hope this helps,
Doug
I just built a nymph using epoxy and fiberglass. You are right in
that the epoxy/glass cost was easily equal to the rest of the boat (I
kept track). However, a couple of things to consider that may help
you with your decision.
The epoxy made easy fixes of any "whoops" in cutting and
construction. It's amazing how big a hole can be filled and sanded
nice. Also, I finished the nymph about 6 weeks ago and have had it
out every weekend at least once and usually twice day sailing. It
goes in the back of my pickup and straight down the ramp without a
care. I've had to touch up the paint twice and should probably do it
after every trip. The paint doesn't seem to hold up too well to
casual use but the glass keeps the hull well protected.
If I had to do it over, I would still use fiberglass with the
following changes:
1. Search the web for the best price. Stay away from West System -
great stuff to use but they are proud of it. Raka.com seems to have
good quality and pricing. I have also heard some really cheap prices
through ebay but haven't tried it. I would have saved 40% if I had
searched.
2. Use sawdust from your belt sander as filler - works great and is
priced right.
3. Make small batches and thicken it up a lot more than you think
you should if you have never worked with it. They are serious when
they say peanut butter consistency. Thinner is harder to control,
wastes more epoxy, and doesnt fill as nicely.
Again, I would glass the entire hull on a nymph or similar boat. I
would just glass the bottom on a bolger sharpie or michalak AF style
boat.
Hope this helps,
Doug
Nothing I know of beats Epoxy for strength and for bonding FG to wood
(any wood).
That being said, I have recently had some very encouraging results
with "PL Preium" made by Lepages, as I recall the maker.
Seems to be VERY strong, VERY cheap and VERY hard to get off my
fingers. If it's half as sticky to wood as to fingers, the sucker
will stick together forever!
Just MHO (my humble opinion)
Bruce Hector
(any wood).
That being said, I have recently had some very encouraging results
with "PL Preium" made by Lepages, as I recall the maker.
Seems to be VERY strong, VERY cheap and VERY hard to get off my
fingers. If it's half as sticky to wood as to fingers, the sucker
will stick together forever!
Just MHO (my humble opinion)
Bruce Hector
Woody,
You don't really need to cover the outside of the whole hull in
epoxy/glass, just the joints. In fact, if you can fit a chine log
(~2"x2" piece of wood that backs up the chine and to which the bottom
and side are fastened), you don't need epoxy at all. However, unless
the design is made so the side-to-bottom angle is the same the whole
length of the chine, the epoxy-tape joint is easier.
Fir and pine plywood tend to check (develop small cracks along the
grain) easily, and paint will not prevent checking, while a very light
fiberglass cloth set in epoxy will.
Good luck,
Ford Walton
"witts_end.geo" wrote:
You don't really need to cover the outside of the whole hull in
epoxy/glass, just the joints. In fact, if you can fit a chine log
(~2"x2" piece of wood that backs up the chine and to which the bottom
and side are fastened), you don't need epoxy at all. However, unless
the design is made so the side-to-bottom angle is the same the whole
length of the chine, the epoxy-tape joint is easier.
Fir and pine plywood tend to check (develop small cracks along the
grain) easily, and paint will not prevent checking, while a very light
fiberglass cloth set in epoxy will.
Good luck,
Ford Walton
"witts_end.geo" wrote:
>
> Most of the discussions I've read about building boats talk of using
> epoxy to glass and seal the outside of the hull. After looking at
> the prices of epoxy, I'm very discouraged. Epoxy is half the cost of
> the boat (I'm going to build a small dinghy, possibly a ruebens nymph
> or John Bell's Blondie). It seems wise to use epoxy to glue the
> joints (chines?) together because it is so strong, but can I
> compromise in a reasonable way on the hull? I think Dave Carnell
> makes an argument for using a good latex paint.
>
> I don't want to ruin my first boat by being too cheap. On the other
> hand, using epoxy will double the price and make it too expensive. I
> am just curious what others have found.
>
> For starters this dinghy will not be a tender. We will use it to day
> sail on our protected harbor.
>
> BTW, thanks to all who explained to me what a chine was. You would
> be suprised how often that word is used when you don't know what it
> means.
>
> Woody
>
> PS - I'm sure this has been asked before. I just couldn't formulate
> the right searches to get the answers I'm looking for.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
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>
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Hi Woody,
I don't know the construction of the boats you mention but consider
limiting epoxy to it's use as glue, or fillets or for taping or
sealing the edges of plywood.
Fir plywood will check if not glassed and it is left out in the
weather. Paint will generally not protect from checking.
House paint will work fine for a finish for other marine plywoods just
don't expect the beautiful surface or shine of expensive marine
paints.
Be religious about fixing breaches of the painted surfaces. Don't let
water stand in your boat.
Sometimes the seeds of rot are sealed in with epoxy.
If you were planning on using cheap ply and lumber you might think of
upgrading to more stable products.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "witts_end.geo" <waffleiron@c...>
wrote:
I don't know the construction of the boats you mention but consider
limiting epoxy to it's use as glue, or fillets or for taping or
sealing the edges of plywood.
Fir plywood will check if not glassed and it is left out in the
weather. Paint will generally not protect from checking.
House paint will work fine for a finish for other marine plywoods just
don't expect the beautiful surface or shine of expensive marine
paints.
Be religious about fixing breaches of the painted surfaces. Don't let
water stand in your boat.
Sometimes the seeds of rot are sealed in with epoxy.
If you were planning on using cheap ply and lumber you might think of
upgrading to more stable products.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "witts_end.geo" <waffleiron@c...>
wrote:
> Most of the discussions I've read about building boats talk ofusing
> epoxy to glass and seal the outside of the hull. After looking atof
> the prices of epoxy, I'm very discouraged. Epoxy is half the cost
> the boat (I'm going to build a small dinghy, possibly a ruebensnymph
> or John Bell's Blondie). It seems wise to use epoxy to glue theother
> joints (chines?) together because it is so strong, but can I
> compromise in a reasonable way on the hull? I think Dave Carnell
> makes an argument for using a good latex paint.
>
> I don't want to ruin my first boat by being too cheap. On the
> hand, using epoxy will double the price and make it too expensive.I
> am just curious what others have found.day
>
> For starters this dinghy will not be a tender. We will use it to
> sail on our protected harbor.formulate
>
> BTW, thanks to all who explained to me what a chine was. You would
> be suprised how often that word is used when you don't know what it
> means.
>
> Woody
>
> PS - I'm sure this has been asked before. I just couldn't
> the right searches to get the answers I'm looking for.
Most of the discussions I've read about building boats talk of using
epoxy to glass and seal the outside of the hull. After looking at
the prices of epoxy, I'm very discouraged. Epoxy is half the cost of
the boat (I'm going to build a small dinghy, possibly a ruebens nymph
or John Bell's Blondie). It seems wise to use epoxy to glue the
joints (chines?) together because it is so strong, but can I
compromise in a reasonable way on the hull? I think Dave Carnell
makes an argument for using a good latex paint.
I don't want to ruin my first boat by being too cheap. On the other
hand, using epoxy will double the price and make it too expensive. I
am just curious what others have found.
For starters this dinghy will not be a tender. We will use it to day
sail on our protected harbor.
BTW, thanks to all who explained to me what a chine was. You would
be suprised how often that word is used when you don't know what it
means.
Woody
PS - I'm sure this has been asked before. I just couldn't formulate
the right searches to get the answers I'm looking for.
epoxy to glass and seal the outside of the hull. After looking at
the prices of epoxy, I'm very discouraged. Epoxy is half the cost of
the boat (I'm going to build a small dinghy, possibly a ruebens nymph
or John Bell's Blondie). It seems wise to use epoxy to glue the
joints (chines?) together because it is so strong, but can I
compromise in a reasonable way on the hull? I think Dave Carnell
makes an argument for using a good latex paint.
I don't want to ruin my first boat by being too cheap. On the other
hand, using epoxy will double the price and make it too expensive. I
am just curious what others have found.
For starters this dinghy will not be a tender. We will use it to day
sail on our protected harbor.
BTW, thanks to all who explained to me what a chine was. You would
be suprised how often that word is used when you don't know what it
means.
Woody
PS - I'm sure this has been asked before. I just couldn't formulate
the right searches to get the answers I'm looking for.