Re: 'Cheaper' epoxy
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Magen" <quohog@a...> wrote:
(all the sound advice clipped to keep the reply short)
If you are going to build something . . . do
> the BEST you can. 'Workboat Finish' as opposed to 'Yacht Finish' is
> perfectly acceptable - but be SURE of the structural elements.
>
> Regards & Good Luck,
> Ron Magen
> Backyard Boatshop
>
Hear!Hear! I vote for Ron as next President of the Independant
Republic of Bolgerland :-)
Peter Lenihan
Woody,
I've read all the responses {Digest 1584}, and if you think you're at
your 'Wit's End' now, just have a seam fail when you're out on that
'protected harbor'. Or take the cover off and see a large check running
the length of a side !
If epoxy is costing you the same as the rest of your materials, so be
it. 'Rubens Nymph' doesn't use that much to start with, and 'left over'
epoxy doesn't 'spoil'. {And just like a sailor, it's 'wonderful handy to
have around the house'.
WEST has excellent R&D and a great deal of history. But they DON'T
'manufacture' epoxy. There are only about 3 HUGE 'chemical companies'
that actually do; all the 'suppliers' you hear about are actually
're-packagers'. WEST bought 'locally' by the quart is EXPEN$IVE !! By
the gallon ain't cheap, either !! I have found that the RAKA 3-gallon
'kit' is the most economical . . . especially if you get a mix of the
basic resin and a couple of different 'speed' hardeners {the 5:1 'Fast'
is my 'basic' and I get some 2:1 'Slow' to control the pot life in warm
weather}.
Typical 'one-off' small boat building actually uses a variety of
construction methodologies. I even have a 'quart kit' of RAKA '5-Minute
Epoxy'. Real nice for 'tacking' something in place. I have also used
'Hot Melt' glue, PL Premium Construction Adhesive, and TiteBond II
aliphatic. I would even suggest you spend even a bit more money and get
a few different 'fillers' . . . each has it own characteristics. They
can even be 'customized' by mixing. Some time ago I talked Larry Steves
into carrying 'wood flour' - in terms of time, electricity, and wear &
tear on equipment - it's a lot cheaper than 'sanding your own'. It's my
'basic' filler; although I may add a bit of microballoons for a bit more
volume and ease of sanding.
I don't want to seem 'snotty' but if you feel that the financial
difference between building a 'Rubens Nymph' *without epoxy* is
affordable, and WITH is 'too expensive' - then you had better reconsider
your choice of projects. {You did say 'daysail' and we haven't even
touched on the cost of sails . . . about $400 to buy 'ready-made' and
maybe half that if gotten as a 'sew-it-yourself' kit}
When I built a 'Rubens' rowing version, I 'over-built' it. While the
sides were 1/4 inch Lauan ply, the frames were 1/2 inch, and the
transoms were 3/4 inch. Seams per spec, and 6 oz glass cloth on the
exterior. 'Yacht Finished', I sold it to a gentleman who needed
something very stable because his wife had a degenerative muscular
disease.
Your question implied that you would have your family aboard. Don't
think too cheaply.
If I have inadvertently insulted you, I do apologize for that, however
my opinion still stands. If you are going to build something . . . do
the BEST you can. 'Workboat Finish' as opposed to 'Yacht Finish' is
perfectly acceptable - but be SURE of the structural elements.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
I've read all the responses {Digest 1584}, and if you think you're at
your 'Wit's End' now, just have a seam fail when you're out on that
'protected harbor'. Or take the cover off and see a large check running
the length of a side !
If epoxy is costing you the same as the rest of your materials, so be
it. 'Rubens Nymph' doesn't use that much to start with, and 'left over'
epoxy doesn't 'spoil'. {And just like a sailor, it's 'wonderful handy to
have around the house'.
WEST has excellent R&D and a great deal of history. But they DON'T
'manufacture' epoxy. There are only about 3 HUGE 'chemical companies'
that actually do; all the 'suppliers' you hear about are actually
're-packagers'. WEST bought 'locally' by the quart is EXPEN$IVE !! By
the gallon ain't cheap, either !! I have found that the RAKA 3-gallon
'kit' is the most economical . . . especially if you get a mix of the
basic resin and a couple of different 'speed' hardeners {the 5:1 'Fast'
is my 'basic' and I get some 2:1 'Slow' to control the pot life in warm
weather}.
Typical 'one-off' small boat building actually uses a variety of
construction methodologies. I even have a 'quart kit' of RAKA '5-Minute
Epoxy'. Real nice for 'tacking' something in place. I have also used
'Hot Melt' glue, PL Premium Construction Adhesive, and TiteBond II
aliphatic. I would even suggest you spend even a bit more money and get
a few different 'fillers' . . . each has it own characteristics. They
can even be 'customized' by mixing. Some time ago I talked Larry Steves
into carrying 'wood flour' - in terms of time, electricity, and wear &
tear on equipment - it's a lot cheaper than 'sanding your own'. It's my
'basic' filler; although I may add a bit of microballoons for a bit more
volume and ease of sanding.
I don't want to seem 'snotty' but if you feel that the financial
difference between building a 'Rubens Nymph' *without epoxy* is
affordable, and WITH is 'too expensive' - then you had better reconsider
your choice of projects. {You did say 'daysail' and we haven't even
touched on the cost of sails . . . about $400 to buy 'ready-made' and
maybe half that if gotten as a 'sew-it-yourself' kit}
When I built a 'Rubens' rowing version, I 'over-built' it. While the
sides were 1/4 inch Lauan ply, the frames were 1/2 inch, and the
transoms were 3/4 inch. Seams per spec, and 6 oz glass cloth on the
exterior. 'Yacht Finished', I sold it to a gentleman who needed
something very stable because his wife had a degenerative muscular
disease.
Your question implied that you would have your family aboard. Don't
think too cheaply.
If I have inadvertently insulted you, I do apologize for that, however
my opinion still stands. If you are going to build something . . . do
the BEST you can. 'Workboat Finish' as opposed to 'Yacht Finish' is
perfectly acceptable - but be SURE of the structural elements.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:55:48 -0000
> From: "witts_end.geo" <waffleiron@...>
> Subject: Cheaper alternatives to epoxy
>
> Most of the discussions I've read about building boats talk of using
> epoxy to glass and seal the outside of the hull. After looking at
> the prices of epoxy, I'm very discouraged. Epoxy is half the cost of
> the boat (I'm going to build a small dinghy, possibly a ruebens nymph
> or John Bell's Blondie). It seems wise to use epoxy to glue the
> joints (chines?) together because it is so strong, but can I
> compromise in a reasonable way on the hull? I think Dave Carnell
> makes an argument for using a good latex paint.
>
> I don't want to ruin my first boat by being too cheap. On the other
> hand, using epoxy will double the price and make it too expensive. I
> am just curious what others have found.
>
> For starters this dinghy will not be a tender. We will use it to day
> sail on our protected harbor.
>
> BTW, thanks to all who explained to me what a chine was. You would
> be suprised how often that word is used when you don't know what it
> means.
>
> Woody
>
> PS - I'm sure this has been asked before. I just couldn't formulate
> the right searches to get the answers I'm looking for.