Jesse Cooper (was Re: anyone built a superbrick?)
Great info, thanks Bob.
Graeme
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "loosemoosefilmworks" <loosemoosefilmworks@...> wrote:
>
> We cruised our Jessie Cooper down to Spain ( across the Bay of Biscay) and up to Germany, so we have a pretty good handle on what can be done with one in cruising terms.
>
> As far as its load carrying ability...
We cruised our Jessie Cooper down to Spain ( across the Bay of Biscay) and up to Germany, so we have a pretty good handle on what can be done with one in cruising terms.
As far as its load carrying ability it does better than most twenty six foot boats...No real difference than a CAL 26 but with the ability of getting more gear in the boat as the stowage on all of Phil's sharpies is really quite amazing (the square hull does have real advantages in that area!)
That said the Jessie Cooper is a small boat so while you can certainly cross the Atlantic with one...To do so you will have to make some compromises and cut back on less than needful "Stuff" just like you would have to do with any 26 foot sailboat whether it be a Bendytoy, Contessa or whatever. Whatever boat you choose it simply makes sense to keep it as near the designed waterline as possible.
It makes sense to keep the build light by not adding stuff that Phil did not design in but if built to spec you will be a happy camper.
As we lived on ours for so long we were a few inches down on the waterline and we never noticed any real loss of sailing performance...
When we built our JC we did the bottom in plywood which is the only way to go... No alteration of the plan is needful and three layers of 1/2" or 5/8" ply is just right. On ours we used tow layers of 10 OZ glass over everything and glass tape on the chines as well so the area most likely to bump into stuff had six layers of glass cloth with the overlaps making for one pretty bombproof boat.
The boat goes together like a dream and for someone able to work full time on building it would be hard to spend more than three months in the process...There are a few pics of the building of ours on my blog and I will try and find a few more.
When ever we cruise we figure 1 Gallon of water per person per day...We've never had a problem using those numbers. If I were crossing the Atlantic in a JC I would invest in a small water maker like the Katydyn 40...For anything less I most likely would not bother with a watermaker.
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
As far as its load carrying ability it does better than most twenty six foot boats...No real difference than a CAL 26 but with the ability of getting more gear in the boat as the stowage on all of Phil's sharpies is really quite amazing (the square hull does have real advantages in that area!)
That said the Jessie Cooper is a small boat so while you can certainly cross the Atlantic with one...To do so you will have to make some compromises and cut back on less than needful "Stuff" just like you would have to do with any 26 foot sailboat whether it be a Bendytoy, Contessa or whatever. Whatever boat you choose it simply makes sense to keep it as near the designed waterline as possible.
It makes sense to keep the build light by not adding stuff that Phil did not design in but if built to spec you will be a happy camper.
As we lived on ours for so long we were a few inches down on the waterline and we never noticed any real loss of sailing performance...
When we built our JC we did the bottom in plywood which is the only way to go... No alteration of the plan is needful and three layers of 1/2" or 5/8" ply is just right. On ours we used tow layers of 10 OZ glass over everything and glass tape on the chines as well so the area most likely to bump into stuff had six layers of glass cloth with the overlaps making for one pretty bombproof boat.
The boat goes together like a dream and for someone able to work full time on building it would be hard to spend more than three months in the process...There are a few pics of the building of ours on my blog and I will try and find a few more.
When ever we cruise we figure 1 Gallon of water per person per day...We've never had a problem using those numbers. If I were crossing the Atlantic in a JC I would invest in a small water maker like the Katydyn 40...For anything less I most likely would not bother with a watermaker.
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
How big a load can she carry and remain seaworthy? How much before sailing performance is degraded?
How's this figure?
Displacement - 6150lbs
LESS:
Ballast - 980lbs
LightshipD (Michalak's 70lbs finnished/1/2"sheet 70xsay45)- 3150lbs
Additionally,
(Rig, motor, fuel, equipment - ? )
(Stores - ? )
(Crew - ? )
(Gear - ? )
(All up - 2020)
Maybe a 1000lbs of stores, and gear for 2 crew?
A month's worth of water and food for one? 600 nautical miles?
Graeme
> Just beginning a search through the files about Jesse Cooper (only 90 returns?).Not much there at all.
How big a load can she carry and remain seaworthy? How much before sailing performance is degraded?
How's this figure?
Displacement - 6150lbs
LESS:
Ballast - 980lbs
LightshipD (Michalak's 70lbs finnished/1/2"sheet 70xsay45)- 3150lbs
Additionally,
(Rig, motor, fuel, equipment - ? )
(Stores - ? )
(Crew - ? )
(Gear - ? )
(All up - 2020)
Maybe a 1000lbs of stores, and gear for 2 crew?
A month's worth of water and food for one? 600 nautical miles?
Graeme
On the question of waste,
any idea of just how bad that is for a plywood bottom instead of the planked one? It seems, weighing the advantages of watertight ply against his initial concerns about wastage, PCB would still be recommending ply. However, if there's wastage enough, might that not push the costing very close to that of AS29?
How much extra plywood is in an AS29 than a Jesse Cooper anyway? Bernie Wolfard's CSD catalogue quotes the figure of 55 sheets of 1/2" plywood for AS29, but doesn't mention the amount for Jesse Cooper. Could it be as little as only 8 or so less sheets in a Jesse Cooper - assuming a doubled ply bottom? (You see, I just may be able to obtain hoop pine ANZS2272: 1990 marinewood at the distribuition price ex mill if purchased as a "stack". A stack is quoted as 50 sheets of 13.5mm.)
Is there extra internal framing required for the switch to a ply bottom? Extra stringers and such like?
Due to boat registration regs here, could less than a 4HP outboard make do - perhaps complimented by heavier ground tackle?
Graeme
Just beginning a search through the files about Jesse Cooper (only 90 returns?).
any idea of just how bad that is for a plywood bottom instead of the planked one? It seems, weighing the advantages of watertight ply against his initial concerns about wastage, PCB would still be recommending ply. However, if there's wastage enough, might that not push the costing very close to that of AS29?
How much extra plywood is in an AS29 than a Jesse Cooper anyway? Bernie Wolfard's CSD catalogue quotes the figure of 55 sheets of 1/2" plywood for AS29, but doesn't mention the amount for Jesse Cooper. Could it be as little as only 8 or so less sheets in a Jesse Cooper - assuming a doubled ply bottom? (You see, I just may be able to obtain hoop pine ANZS2272: 1990 marinewood at the distribuition price ex mill if purchased as a "stack". A stack is quoted as 50 sheets of 13.5mm.)
Is there extra internal framing required for the switch to a ply bottom? Extra stringers and such like?
Due to boat registration regs here, could less than a 4HP outboard make do - perhaps complimented by heavier ground tackle?
Graeme
Just beginning a search through the files about Jesse Cooper (only 90 returns?).
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "loosemoosefilmworks" <loosemoosefilmworks@...> wrote:
>
> Our first Loose Moose was a Jessie Cooper...
>
> A wonderful boat that Sheila and I managed to live on full time for four and a half years. It sails well...We sailed across the Bay of Biscay twice, up and down the English channel more times than I can count and retraced the "Riddle of The Sands" under sail in some seriously skinny water! Lot to be said for a boat that draws a foot!
>
> I truly loved that boat!
>
> Construction is very straight-forward with very little waste. It took me less than four and a half months to build. ( 3 1/2 half months part time, 1 month full time)
>
> Great boat...
>
> Bob
>http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
>http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
>
> one is really frugal - though I'd like to see a working Super Brick as wellThis is definitely a recurring discussion thread. Back in 2005, in
another Superbrick thread I posted an estimate of the work tasks to
build a Superbrick. In a nutshell my opinion is that the Superbrick
is a "big boat", and would take about as much work as any other "big
boat" of equivalent displacement. The decision is, for "X" amount of
work, which "big boat" is the one you want the most.
========estimated tasks to build a Superbrick======
Assumption: 'quick and dirty' rough finish and "half an inch is close
enough" workmanship.
For "museum piece" quality, multiply by ten.
Perhaps 45 sheets of 1/2" plywood?
plus 300 board feet of framing lumber.
20 gallons epoxy
50 yards of 6 oz fiberglass cloth
Here is my estimate of the labor, I am optimistic of course,
but 600 manhours could do it.
===============
hrs piece
==============
2 Bow transom
2 Bulkhead A
2 Bulkhead B
2 Bulkhead C
2 Bulkhead D
2 Stern transom
4 Bottom joists
2 Main floor
2 Dbl Berth platform
2 Dbl Berth riser
2 Dbl Berth hatches
2 Single berth starboard
2 Single berth port
2 Motor compartment bottom
2 Motor compartment sides
4 Washroom walls
2 Washroom door
4 Fiberglassing washroom
4 Off-Centerboard
2 Off-centerboard lead
4 Off-centerboard pivot hardware
4 Off-centerboard case
2 Bookshelf at dbl berth
2 Mainmast step box
1 Mainmast shelf reinforcements
8 Top opening icebox
8 Drop leaf table
8 Drawers under single berths
8 Sink cabinet & sink
8 Stove cabinet and drawers
8 Dresser drawer and desk
4 Lower side portside
4 Lower side starboardside
4 Bottom panels
2 Bottom to side chine logs
2 Lowerside to topside nail strip
4 Topside portside
4 Porthole window
4 Topside starboardside
8 Windows at dbl berth
8 Windows at single berths
2 Single berth closet rods
4 Motor mount transom board
4 Motor well flush hatches
2 Footwell sides at cockpit
2 Flush hatch at cockpit
8 Cockpit seatback bulwark
2 Cockpit seatback hatches
4 Cockpit seating 'deck'
4 Aft face of trunk
4 hatch boards in trunk
8 Sliding hatch at trunktop
8 Portside trunk cabinets
4 Outside sides of trunk
4 Forward face of trunk
2 Window on forward face of trunk
2 Hatch shroud
4 Trunk top
4 Disco deck
2 Disco deck sides
20 Shoebox punt
4 Running lights
8 Mast
16 Lanteen yards
8 Lanteen rig hardware
8 Polytarp sails
4 Top piece of rudder
4 Rudder hardware
4 Tiller
4 Bottom piece of rudder
2 Lead ballast in bottom of rudder
2 Anchor cleat
2 Mooring cleat
=========================================
311 total hours
Our first Loose Moose was a Jessie Cooper...
A wonderful boat that Sheila and I managed to live on full time for four and a half years. It sails well...We sailed across the Bay of Biscay twice, up and down the English channel more times than I can count and retraced the "Riddle of The Sands" under sail in some seriously skinny water! Lot to be said for a boat that draws a foot!
I truly loved that boat!
Construction is very straight-forward with very little waste. It took me less than four and a half months to build. ( 3 1/2 half months part time, 1 month full time)
Great boat...
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
A wonderful boat that Sheila and I managed to live on full time for four and a half years. It sails well...We sailed across the Bay of Biscay twice, up and down the English channel more times than I can count and retraced the "Riddle of The Sands" under sail in some seriously skinny water! Lot to be said for a boat that draws a foot!
I truly loved that boat!
Construction is very straight-forward with very little waste. It took me less than four and a half months to build. ( 3 1/2 half months part time, 1 month full time)
Great boat...
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <brucehallman@...> wrote:
Jim
>A Jessie C. might cost closer to $4,000 - my daughter and I built a Wish II in one summer using cheap lumber but used Sitka for the spars and Sail Rite cloth for the Sails (actual cost was a little over $5,000 so I say $4,000 if one is really frugal - though I'd like to see a working Super Brick as well !!>
Jim
> > OK Where do I find info on the Jesse Cooper?
>
> Phil Bolger's book _Boats With an Open Mind_
> is a *must* read, and has a chapter on the
> Jessie Cooper.
>
> It is a smaller boat than the Superbrick,
> but I believe it is a more 'sensible'
> and seaworthy choice. Smaller, but it
> is certainly big enough to liveaboard
> happily. Standing headroom in the galley,
> a double bed sized berth, [the only complaint
> I might have is that in the 25'6" length,
> the seats in the 'salon' are not long enough to
> double as guest berths]. It has a generous
> storage hold, under the cockpit, and a simple
> but servicable low tech sail rig.
>
> Still, if you don't fixate on over-doing the
> teak and polish, I bet a Jessie Cooper could be
> built in one summer from 'Home Depot' lumber,
> Raka epoxy, and poly-tarp sails for $2,000 or so.
>
> An outboard motor could be optional...if you
> were on a tight budget.
>
jdjglt,
I bet you couldn't find a professional builder here or on dwforum who
would love to build a SuperBrick for you.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
I bet you couldn't find a professional builder here or on dwforum who
would love to build a SuperBrick for you.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 12 Mar, 2009, at 11:28 PM, jcjglt wrote:
> Gene, I did it and it works : it's very nice to just imagine what
> could be a Superbrick at sea from inside, very nice bit of
> programming.
> For Paul I should say that I am following with interest his
> construction of s/y Irresponsible, I will enjoy to watch photos
> and test reports in due time.
> A 60+ years old sailor, living aboard my 25ft GRP sailboat in South
> West Pacific (my 4th boat) I am considering for my 65+ - 70- years
> to share my time (with my spouse) between Europe and the USA. I
> thought first to the AS29, then Whalewatcher, then WDJochems but I
> am now discovering all the taste of the Superbrick. I think this
> boat would be perfect to spend 6 months a year aboard on the ICW or
> the US inland lakes, rivers and canals. One question however I
> don't want to loose more time building her and I would have my
> Superbrick professionnally built but what professionnal builder
> would accept to sign such a work, a shanty boat ?
> I got my inspiration for this dream of travel reading the excellent
> pages of Walkure AS29, thanks also to her writer.
> Best regards to all of you, jcjglt.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-
> boats@...> wrote:
>>
>> jcjglt,
>> Ok, I fired it up. Ug, pc! On the keypad, 1, 3,7, 9, and 0 move the
>> view point . Other numbers rotate it. I like the interior layout of
>> the SuperBrick. It will be an awsome craft when one gets built. A
>> pain to trailer though! Will need to ride very high on the trailer.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Gene T.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Gene, I did it and it works : it's very nice to just imagine what could be a Superbrick at sea from inside, very nice bit of programming.
For Paul I should say that I am following with interest his construction of s/y Irresponsible, I will enjoy to watch photos and test reports in due time.
A 60+ years old sailor, living aboard my 25ft GRP sailboat in South West Pacific (my 4th boat) I am considering for my 65+ - 70- years to share my time (with my spouse) between Europe and the USA. I thought first to the AS29, then Whalewatcher, then WDJochems but I am now discovering all the taste of the Superbrick. I think this boat would be perfect to spend 6 months a year aboard on the ICW or the US inland lakes, rivers and canals. One question however I don't want to loose more time building her and I would have my Superbrick professionnally built but what professionnal builder would accept to sign such a work, a shanty boat ?
I got my inspiration for this dream of travel reading the excellent pages of Walkure AS29, thanks also to her writer.
Best regards to all of you, jcjglt.
For Paul I should say that I am following with interest his construction of s/y Irresponsible, I will enjoy to watch photos and test reports in due time.
A 60+ years old sailor, living aboard my 25ft GRP sailboat in South West Pacific (my 4th boat) I am considering for my 65+ - 70- years to share my time (with my spouse) between Europe and the USA. I thought first to the AS29, then Whalewatcher, then WDJochems but I am now discovering all the taste of the Superbrick. I think this boat would be perfect to spend 6 months a year aboard on the ICW or the US inland lakes, rivers and canals. One question however I don't want to loose more time building her and I would have my Superbrick professionnally built but what professionnal builder would accept to sign such a work, a shanty boat ?
I got my inspiration for this dream of travel reading the excellent pages of Walkure AS29, thanks also to her writer.
Best regards to all of you, jcjglt.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene Tehansky <goldranger02-boats@...> wrote:
>
> jcjglt,
> Ok, I fired it up. Ug, pc! On the keypad, 1, 3,7, 9, and 0 move the
> view point . Other numbers rotate it. I like the interior layout of
> the SuperBrick. It will be an awsome craft when one gets built. A
> pain to trailer though! Will need to ride very high on the trailer.
>
> Sincerely,
> Gene T.
>
Paul H.
Have you taken construction photos that you are willing to share?
BS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have you taken construction photos that you are willing to share?
BS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm four and a half or so years into a planned 18 month build of my Superbrick. Life keeps getting in the way of important things like boat building. It is definitely a challege to trailer and will be transported from where I am building her to Lake Lanier and she will likely live out her life there. Several people have offered suggestions to make it trailerable but the reality is that it just wasn't designed to be a trailer sailer. A large flatbed trailer will get it up to the marina so it can be craned off and into the lake. Its a pretty short ride so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
The original question was about costs and I have done a very poor job of record keeping but I am guessing that it will cost me around $18000 by the time I am through and that is definitely with a lot of scrounging and very little fancy additions.
Paul H.
The original question was about costs and I have done a very poor job of record keeping but I am guessing that it will cost me around $18000 by the time I am through and that is definitely with a lot of scrounging and very little fancy additions.
Paul H.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > the SuperBrick. It will be an awsome craft when one gets built. A
> > pain to trailer though! Will need to ride very high on the trailer.
>
>
> That makes me think that a Fiddler II might fill most of the "wish
> list" of a Super Brick, and trailer better, or if you have a crowd, a
> Watervan.
>
> the SuperBrick. It will be an awsome craft when one gets built. AThat makes me think that a Fiddler II might fill most of the "wish
> pain to trailer though! Will need to ride very high on the trailer.
list" of a Super Brick, and trailer better, or if you have a crowd, a
Watervan.
jcjglt,
Ok, I fired it up. Ug, pc! On the keypad, 1, 3,7, 9, and 0 move the
view point . Other numbers rotate it. I like the interior layout of
the SuperBrick. It will be an awsome craft when one gets built. A
pain to trailer though! Will need to ride very high on the trailer.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
Ok, I fired it up. Ug, pc! On the keypad, 1, 3,7, 9, and 0 move the
view point . Other numbers rotate it. I like the interior layout of
the SuperBrick. It will be an awsome craft when one gets built. A
pain to trailer though! Will need to ride very high on the trailer.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 12 Mar, 2009, at 9:14 AM, Gene Tehansky wrote:
> jcjglt,
> Its been a long time since I ran the software but as I recall you
> simply pass through walls as you move around. If you can find out
> how to slew the view point then you got it. Just move up down left
> right until you enter the boat. Not a very complete answer but I
> can't bear to fire up the PC!
>
> I got the plans for superbrick but decided to not build it at this
> time. I'm working on a Micro Navigator.
>
> Sincerely,
> Gene T.
>
> On 11 Mar, 2009, at 11:40 PM, jcjglt wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I downlowded the free demo VS with the AS29 and the Superbrick. It
> > works quite well and you did a nice job.
> > However I can't move inside the boats and don't find any
> > explanation in the manual, could you tell me how I could move
> > inside and visit these amazing boats ? It might be necessary to buy
> > the commercial version?
> > Best regards, jcjglt.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proto957" <helio6@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > The AS29 would be my first choice but I had guessed the cost
> would
> > > > be more then the superbrick...
> > >
> > > > Are there any estimates on the construction costs of each boat?
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Tom
> > >
> > > Tom: I've posted this before, but it might be helpful to you if
> you
> > > haven't seen them: I made both the Superbrick and the AS-29 in 3D
> > CAD
> > > for the program Virtual Sailor, so that you can download them, and
> > > sail them on your computer. You will find the Superbrick at my
> site,
> > > the ChumBucket:http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
> > > The AS-29 is downloadable from the VS site: http://
> www.avsim.com/vs
> > > You can also download a playable demo from the VS site. Both boats
> > > have full interiors, operating sails, rotating props, and working
> > > lights. This will let you "walk" around the boats, and get some
> feel
> > > for the interior dimensions. But don't go by the sailing
> > > characteristics as found in VS... they will not necessarily be
> > > completely accurate to the actual boats, although I tried to
> get it
> > > close to what I assume to be realistic.
> > >
> > > On another note, Jost says: "Aesthetics are always going
> > > to be an ongoing arguement for an against projects such as an
> AS29."
> > > That's true... but I remember that Frank Lloyd Wright, when
> asked if
> > > he thought his Guggenheim Museum was too modern for the
> surrounding
> > > buildings, said something like "let the neighborhood change over
> > time
> > > to match my design". I also include an article on Bolger design
> > > aesthetics in the AS-29 download, in html format. I think he is
> the
> > > FLW of naval architecture... his aesthetics are his own, and
> > ahead of
> > > his time. They create their own standard, which has a right as any
> > > other to exist, and be respected as well as any.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jcjglt,
Its been a long time since I ran the software but as I recall you
simply pass through walls as you move around. If you can find out
how to slew the view point then you got it. Just move up down left
right until you enter the boat. Not a very complete answer but I
can't bear to fire up the PC!
I got the plans for superbrick but decided to not build it at this
time. I'm working on a Micro Navigator.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
Its been a long time since I ran the software but as I recall you
simply pass through walls as you move around. If you can find out
how to slew the view point then you got it. Just move up down left
right until you enter the boat. Not a very complete answer but I
can't bear to fire up the PC!
I got the plans for superbrick but decided to not build it at this
time. I'm working on a Micro Navigator.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
On 11 Mar, 2009, at 11:40 PM, jcjglt wrote:
> Hi,
> I downlowded the free demo VS with the AS29 and the Superbrick. It
> works quite well and you did a nice job.
> However I can't move inside the boats and don't find any
> explanation in the manual, could you tell me how I could move
> inside and visit these amazing boats ? It might be necessary to buy
> the commercial version?
> Best regards, jcjglt.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proto957" <helio6@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > The AS29 would be my first choice but I had guessed the cost would
> > > be more then the superbrick...
> >
> > > Are there any estimates on the construction costs of each boat?
> > > Thanks
> > > Tom
> >
> > Tom: I've posted this before, but it might be helpful to you if you
> > haven't seen them: I made both the Superbrick and the AS-29 in 3D
> CAD
> > for the program Virtual Sailor, so that you can download them, and
> > sail them on your computer. You will find the Superbrick at my site,
> > the ChumBucket:http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
> > The AS-29 is downloadable from the VS site:http://www.avsim.com/vs
> > You can also download a playable demo from the VS site. Both boats
> > have full interiors, operating sails, rotating props, and working
> > lights. This will let you "walk" around the boats, and get some feel
> > for the interior dimensions. But don't go by the sailing
> > characteristics as found in VS... they will not necessarily be
> > completely accurate to the actual boats, although I tried to get it
> > close to what I assume to be realistic.
> >
> > On another note, Jost says: "Aesthetics are always going
> > to be an ongoing arguement for an against projects such as an AS29."
> > That's true... but I remember that Frank Lloyd Wright, when asked if
> > he thought his Guggenheim Museum was too modern for the surrounding
> > buildings, said something like "let the neighborhood change over
> time
> > to match my design". I also include an article on Bolger design
> > aesthetics in the AS-29 download, in html format. I think he is the
> > FLW of naval architecture... his aesthetics are his own, and
> ahead of
> > his time. They create their own standard, which has a right as any
> > other to exist, and be respected as well as any.
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi,
I downlowded the free demo VS with the AS29 and the Superbrick. It works quite well and you did a nice job.
However I can't move inside the boats and don't find any explanation in the manual, could you tell me how I could move inside and visit these amazing boats ? It might be necessary to buy the commercial version?
Best regards, jcjglt.
I downlowded the free demo VS with the AS29 and the Superbrick. It works quite well and you did a nice job.
However I can't move inside the boats and don't find any explanation in the manual, could you tell me how I could move inside and visit these amazing boats ? It might be necessary to buy the commercial version?
Best regards, jcjglt.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proto957" <helio6@...> wrote:
>
>
> > The AS29 would be my first choice but I had guessed the cost would
> > be more then the superbrick...
>
> > Are there any estimates on the construction costs of each boat?
> > Thanks
> > Tom
>
> Tom: I've posted this before, but it might be helpful to you if you
> haven't seen them: I made both the Superbrick and the AS-29 in 3D CAD
> for the program Virtual Sailor, so that you can download them, and
> sail them on your computer. You will find the Superbrick at my site,
> the ChumBucket:http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
> The AS-29 is downloadable from the VS site:http://www.avsim.com/vs
> You can also download a playable demo from the VS site. Both boats
> have full interiors, operating sails, rotating props, and working
> lights. This will let you "walk" around the boats, and get some feel
> for the interior dimensions. But don't go by the sailing
> characteristics as found in VS... they will not necessarily be
> completely accurate to the actual boats, although I tried to get it
> close to what I assume to be realistic.
>
> On another note, Jost says: "Aesthetics are always going
> to be an ongoing arguement for an against projects such as an AS29."
> That's true... but I remember that Frank Lloyd Wright, when asked if
> he thought his Guggenheim Museum was too modern for the surrounding
> buildings, said something like "let the neighborhood change over time
> to match my design". I also include an article on Bolger design
> aesthetics in the AS-29 download, in html format. I think he is the
> FLW of naval architecture... his aesthetics are his own, and ahead of
> his time. They create their own standard, which has a right as any
> other to exist, and be respected as well as any.
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <brucehallman@y...> wrote:
Cooper. "Boats with and Open Mind" has a section on the Advance
Sharpie 29 which is the evolved verion of the Jessie Cooper. Also,
the Superbrick is about 20' so it is actually 5' shourter than the
Jessie Cooper but has much more room.
Tom
>Actually, its "30 Odd Boats" which has the section on the Jessie
> > OK Where do I find info on the Jesse Cooper?
>
> Phil Bolger's book _Boats With an Open Mind_
> is a *must* read, and has a chapter on the
> Jessie Cooper.
Cooper. "Boats with and Open Mind" has a section on the Advance
Sharpie 29 which is the evolved verion of the Jessie Cooper. Also,
the Superbrick is about 20' so it is actually 5' shourter than the
Jessie Cooper but has much more room.
Tom
> OK Where do I find info on the Jesse Cooper?Phil Bolger's book _Boats With an Open Mind_
is a *must* read, and has a chapter on the
Jessie Cooper.
It is a smaller boat than the Superbrick,
but I believe it is a more 'sensible'
and seaworthy choice. Smaller, but it
is certainly big enough to liveaboard
happily. Standing headroom in the galley,
a double bed sized berth, [the only complaint
I might have is that in the 25'6" length,
the seats in the 'salon' are not long enough to
double as guest berths]. It has a generous
storage hold, under the cockpit, and a simple
but servicable low tech sail rig.
Still, if you don't fixate on over-doing the
teak and polish, I bet a Jessie Cooper could be
built in one summer from 'Home Depot' lumber,
Raka epoxy, and poly-tarp sails for $2,000 or so.
An outboard motor could be optional...if you
were on a tight budget.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "JW Kelley" <jonkel49@y...> wrote:
with scans of bolgers comment on the boat.
http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy/
Jonathan
> OK Where do I find info on the Jesse Cooper? I didn't see anythingHere you go! This site has info & pictures of a "Jesse Cooper" along
> in the files or photos.
with scans of bolgers comment on the boat.
http://www.boatdesign.com/tomboy/
Jonathan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <brucehallman@y...>
wrote:
in the files or photos.
wrote:
> --- "Tom" <thomas533@y...> wrote:OK Where do I find info on the Jesse Cooper? I didn't see anything
>
> > looking for a cheap liveaboard
>
> Bolger describes the Jessie
> Cooper as a cheap liveaboard
> and I agree!
in the files or photos.
--- "Tom" <thomas533@y...> wrote:
Cooper as a cheap liveaboard
and I agree!
> looking for a cheap liveaboardBolger describes the Jessie
Cooper as a cheap liveaboard
and I agree!
> ...guess that the ratio between highest and lowest could be 5:1.I'll bet you're right. I know that the last major boat I built, a 20'
>
> Peter
cruising yawl, cost us $2,500... I used scavenged scraps along with
lumberyard wood... the red cedar planking I ripped from 1x12 house
siding. I used marine ply... but the "rotary cut" phillipine
mahogany, which was $32 a sheet in '92. Brunzeel in the same size
would have been something like $200 a sheet. We sewed our own sails,
and the sailcloth cost only $188 for all three sails.
I know someone else who built the same exact boat a couple of years
earlier, and spent over $12,000... just about five times what we
spent.
I think the AS-29 takes 55 sheets of plywood. Since ply is the major
ingredient of most Bolger designs, and the cost of usable, waterproof
and void-free ply can vary in a factor of about 5, I suppose it would
hold for most Bolger designs, too. And considering that, I find the
$1,000 raised so far towards a Superbrick really compelling. I don't
know how many sheets IT uses, but I wouldn't imagine it is over 30.
If you used the cheapest waterproof ply you could find, I'll bet you
could knock the whole thing together for about two grand. If the
pledges ever reached that figure, it would be hard to say, "no". Rich.
> > Are there any estimates on the construction costs of each boat?I would have said that boats cost by weight.
In any event, construction costs are so different between builders
that costs vary over a wide range from an expensive hired
professional using the best materials on the one end, and a crafty,
scavanging amateur using the cheapest materials on the other. I would
guess that the ratio between highest and lowest could be 5:1.
Peter
> The AS29 would be my first choice but I had guessed the cost wouldTom: I've posted this before, but it might be helpful to you if you
> be more then the superbrick...
> Are there any estimates on the construction costs of each boat?
> Thanks
> Tom
haven't seen them: I made both the Superbrick and the AS-29 in 3D CAD
for the program Virtual Sailor, so that you can download them, and
sail them on your computer. You will find the Superbrick at my site,
the ChumBucket:http://www.angelfire.com/space/proto57/
The AS-29 is downloadable from the VS site:http://www.avsim.com/vs
You can also download a playable demo from the VS site. Both boats
have full interiors, operating sails, rotating props, and working
lights. This will let you "walk" around the boats, and get some feel
for the interior dimensions. But don't go by the sailing
characteristics as found in VS... they will not necessarily be
completely accurate to the actual boats, although I tried to get it
close to what I assume to be realistic.
On another note, Jost says: "Aesthetics are always going
to be an ongoing arguement for an against projects such as an AS29."
That's true... but I remember that Frank Lloyd Wright, when asked if
he thought his Guggenheim Museum was too modern for the surrounding
buildings, said something like "let the neighborhood change over time
to match my design". I also include an article on Bolger design
aesthetics in the AS-29 download, in html format. I think he is the
FLW of naval architecture... his aesthetics are his own, and ahead of
his time. They create their own standard, which has a right as any
other to exist, and be respected as well as any.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomas533@y...> wrote: The AS29
would be my first choice but I had guessed the cost would be more
then the superbrick
In boats you don't pay for length, you pay for volume.
The AS 29 with it's wide open spaces and compfy sleeping for 4 has
roughly the same volume as a SB. In SB all the bulkheads and interior
joinerwork is structural, extensive and expensive.
As Phil likes to point our, it may live on to encumber your estate,
being essentially un-saleable, whereas an AS 29 will command a few
bucks.
Of course, I still want to see a SB, so what can I do?
Bruce Hector
would be my first choice but I had guessed the cost would be more
then the superbrick
In boats you don't pay for length, you pay for volume.
The AS 29 with it's wide open spaces and compfy sleeping for 4 has
roughly the same volume as a SB. In SB all the bulkheads and interior
joinerwork is structural, extensive and expensive.
As Phil likes to point our, it may live on to encumber your estate,
being essentially un-saleable, whereas an AS 29 will command a few
bucks.
Of course, I still want to see a SB, so what can I do?
Bruce Hector
> Of course, a better sailing houseboat would be an AS 29, lessmoney
> and a better sailor, still distinctivley Bolger too!The AS29 would be my first choice but I had guessed the cost would
be more then the superbrick (and cost is a fairly big factor for me
here). It would also depend on how large of a space I could find to
build on (I live in an apartment now and would have to find a place
to build at).
Are there any estimates on the construction costs of each boat?
Thanks
Tom
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector" <bruce_hector@h...>
wrote:
and the itch to build is setting in. My kids miss my Micro, (but I
love my current catboat)and are pushing me to build another boat
that "we all can go on".
I do have to say that I am concerned over the stability of the
hull. In a knockdown, what is to bring her back up again? After many
years of boating amongst the backdrop of the wealthy and famous with
their compounds and McMansions, I envision one strange looking craft
spoiling their otherwise pristine view. Aesthetics are always going
to be an ongoing arguement for an against projects such as an AS29.
I have no doubt that it would be comfortable to sail, as Micro was,
perhaps even more so.
On another note. The kids and myself caught a ton of fish in our
diablo today. I didn't know that they had stocked muskies in the
Massachusetts ponds. We almost boated the brute, but it got away!
Happy boating, wish I could be in Kingston.
David Jost
wrote:
> My $100 is still in the pot, I'd love to see and get a ride in a SB.I looked over a set of the plans for an AS29. It is very intriguing
>
> Of course, a better sailing houseboat would be an AS 29, less money
> and a better sailor, still distinctivley Bolger too!
and the itch to build is setting in. My kids miss my Micro, (but I
love my current catboat)and are pushing me to build another boat
that "we all can go on".
I do have to say that I am concerned over the stability of the
hull. In a knockdown, what is to bring her back up again? After many
years of boating amongst the backdrop of the wealthy and famous with
their compounds and McMansions, I envision one strange looking craft
spoiling their otherwise pristine view. Aesthetics are always going
to be an ongoing arguement for an against projects such as an AS29.
I have no doubt that it would be comfortable to sail, as Micro was,
perhaps even more so.
On another note. The kids and myself caught a ton of fish in our
diablo today. I didn't know that they had stocked muskies in the
Massachusetts ponds. We almost boated the brute, but it got away!
Happy boating, wish I could be in Kingston.
David Jost
My $100 is still in the pot, I'd love to see and get a ride in a SB.
Of course, a better sailing houseboat would be an AS 29, less money
and a better sailor, still distinctivley Bolger too!
Bruce Hector
Just got towed back by the friendly Canadian Coast Guard when the
motor conked out in a narrow chanel. Nice friendly guys who saved me
an expensive towing bill, and had to plow through 18 miles of shoppy
Lake Ontario to get to me. Pictures were taken but I may be too
embarrased to show them!
Of course, a better sailing houseboat would be an AS 29, less money
and a better sailor, still distinctivley Bolger too!
Bruce Hector
Just got towed back by the friendly Canadian Coast Guard when the
motor conked out in a narrow chanel. Nice friendly guys who saved me
an expensive towing bill, and had to plow through 18 miles of shoppy
Lake Ontario to get to me. Pictures were taken but I may be too
embarrased to show them!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <thomas533@y...> wrote:
idea of the design is to have a sailing houseboat. But he also wrote
that it would not sail well. It sounds downright dangerous to me. If
you did build a Superbrick, you would end up not sailing her, but
motoring. So why not build a motor houseboat to your required
dimensions? Or a big sailboat? Or a medium-size motor boat? Or a
motorsailer?
Carter
> I was wondering if anyone here has built a Superbrick? I've beenlook
> looking for a cheap liveaboard to build for my self and love the
> of the superbrick.I don't see much point in it. From Bolger's own description, the
idea of the design is to have a sailing houseboat. But he also wrote
that it would not sail well. It sounds downright dangerous to me. If
you did build a Superbrick, you would end up not sailing her, but
motoring. So why not build a motor houseboat to your required
dimensions? Or a big sailboat? Or a medium-size motor boat? Or a
motorsailer?
Carter
>Reworking the interior is the easy part in my mind. Making sure ihulls are easy. interiors are hard. that's the main reason PCB is
>don't screw up some fundamental part of the boat is not. :)
designing my 'big boat'
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
> What about building a Jesse Cooper instead? No need to build the rigFor one, even though the Jessie Cooper is 25', it has less space than
> if you don't want to sail, and it will power better than the
> SuperBrick.
the 20' Superbrick. I'm not so much worried about performance and I
did want to have the sailing capability.
> I don't think there is much of a problem about increasing the size ofReworking the interior is the easy part in my mind. Making sure i
> the SuperBrick shell, but you would have to rework the interior plan.
> Obviously, it's not a matter of increasing the size of the bed, head,
> and galley in scale.
don't screw up some fundamental part of the boat is not. :)
Tom
> On a similar note, what about stretching the plans to 25 feet?What about building a Jesse Cooper instead? No need to build the rig
if you don't want to sail, and it will power better than the
SuperBrick.
I don't think there is much of a problem about increasing the size of
the SuperBrick shell, but you would have to rework the interior plan.
Obviously, it's not a matter of increasing the size of the bed, head,
and galley in scale.
Peter
> I was wondering if anyone here has built a Superbrick?No, but we've taken up a collection (close to $1000, if I recall
correctly) to give to the first person who does. C'mon, you *know*
you want one! :-)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone here has built a Superbrick? I've been
looking for a cheap liveaboard to build for my self and love the look
of the superbrick. My one concern is that I couldn't fit my self in
to 19'6" so I wanted to find anyone who has built one to see what
they think of it.
On a similar note, what about stretching the plans to 25 feet? I've
heard about problems when trying to alter other PCB plans but this one
seemed pretty simple.
Thanks for any help,
Tom
I was wondering if anyone here has built a Superbrick? I've been
looking for a cheap liveaboard to build for my self and love the look
of the superbrick. My one concern is that I couldn't fit my self in
to 19'6" so I wanted to find anyone who has built one to see what
they think of it.
On a similar note, what about stretching the plans to 25 feet? I've
heard about problems when trying to alter other PCB plans but this one
seemed pretty simple.
Thanks for any help,
Tom