Re: White Eel
I just noticed this thread.
Yes, we commissioned White Eel in 2000 to cross the Atlantic and
explore Europe. This was back in the internet bubble when I though I
was going to have a lot of money. Now that my children are 10 and 11,
I don't think we will be doing something like this any time soon.
White Eel is an incredible boat. I've been wondering when Phil and
Suzanne were going to publish it and I didn't want to say much until
they had. I've been reading the MAIB articles and haven't found
anything new from the original proposal, except that they drew a
different tender on the top view in second article. The profile in
the picture I uploaded back in 2003 is my own rendering and it
includes changes to the window patterns based on my preferences back
then. If I were to build her today, I would use the PCB&F profile as
they designed it, not my 2003 version. I like theirs better.
As far as rolling, White Eel is supposed to make very fast passages
and be equipped with Gimbaled seats. Plus she is narrow and has a 4"
bottom.
Below is the letter that started it all.
Frank
--
Feb. 27, 2000
Phil Bolger & Friends
PO Box 1209, 29 Ferry St.
Gloucester, Ma 01930
Dear Phil and Susanne,
I have long considered taking a two year sabbatical to spend time
cruising with my family. When I read your series on ocean
passagemakers in MAIB recently, I was intrigued enough to get a copy
of "Voyaging under power" and read it cover to cover. I have been a
small boat coastal sailor all of my life and have always assumed that
my eventual ocean cruise would be in a large sailboat, but now I am a
convert to the seagoing motor cruiser (with one exception noted
below). I write this letter to you to explore the possibility of a
commission.
Here is the idea for our cruise (I had this plan before I read Bebe's
book, really). This cruise would start 3 to 4 years from now with
myself, my wife and our two young kids.
1. While working full time, purchase a used boat or have boat built
and outfitted at a shipyard.
2. Cruise the intracoastal waterway from Maine to Vero Beach, FL for 3
to 6 months. This trip has several purposes;
* a shakedown cruise for the boat
* shakedown cruise for crew: are we going to make it this way for
another year and half? Go/no-go decision.
* piloting and seamanship experience for captain and crew (this would
include appropriate classes in navigation, piloting, safety, etc)
* visit with friends in most of the states up and down the east coast.
3. Local exploring to be done on a 15' - 20' sail boat that is stowed
on deck. This would include overnight camp-cruising of up to a week
(we have plenty of experience in this). This is how I intend to
satisfy my sailing urge.
4. Wife and kids fly to Azores or England
5. Cross Atlantic with guest crew and meet family on the other side.
6. Cruise Europe and the Mediterranean
7. Return to US and sell the boat
8.Return to the full-time working life
So given this itinerary and my limited research, here is a short list
of features:
1. If I have it designed and built:
* steel construction appeals most to me.
* simple is good!
2. General
* capable of making the Atlantic crossing east-west and west-east and
cruising in Europe and the Mediterranean
* accommodations for live aboard for a family of four - two adults,
two small children (cruising grounds only).
* office space for all home schooling activities and supplies
* satellite communications for keeping up a part-time computer
software consulting business
* no more than 50' LOA
* draft, width and height above waterline for cruising the European
canal system is preferred
* fuel, water, stores and spares for a 2500 to 4000 mile cruising range
* paravane stabilization
* deck space for securing a 15' - 20' "captain's barge"
* modest cruising speed hull design
* heavy displacement (D/L 240-340)
* simple outfitting and accommodations; luxury items such as
complicated environmental controls, galley systems, electrical
systems, excessive brightwork are a definite negative. Workboat
finish is preferred.
* single reliable engine & associated systems preferred
Cruising Style:
* Our kids are 3 and 4 years old now, so they will be fairly young
when we embark. I intend to plan the voyage to avoid unnecessary heavy
weather passages. But when we are caught, I want a boat that is as
safe as possible. I would sacrifice deck space to have both a yawl
boat (like that on Bell's Puffer) and the captain's barge (perhaps
stacking like in the old days?)
* This is to be a full-time educational cruise. We intend to use the
boat as a floating school for the real-time study. One big field trip.
* We plan to do skin diving and scuba diving in the warmer parts of
our cruise.
* We plan to spend weeks in each port, exploring via captain's barge,
bicycle, train, bus, etc.
* I have experience with rebuilding auto engines, building small
wooden boats, performing electrical wiring and designing and debugging
electronics and computer systems. I want to be able to self-maintain
as much of the boat as possible.
* I expect to finance the entire project without obtaining a loan.
A little research with the yacht broker community leads me to believe
that it will be hard to find a used boat that meets all of these
criteria. If I were to sacrifice a few things like the captain's
barge and the French canals and accept some of the risks of buying a
used boat, I might buy and outfit a non-yachty cruiser for around
$200,000 - $300,000. But I'd really like to cruise the canals and
sail around in each port. And I really love your designs.
If I have a boat built myself, I expect to pay a premium for the
customized boat, and expect to take a significant loss on the sale of
the boat after two years (at least in small boats, it is always
cheaper to buy a used boat). Who knows, maybe my retired parents in
Florida will take it on. My father, who ran a shipyard for years, may
even help with the construction and outfitting phase (as well as parts
of the voyage).
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
Yes, we commissioned White Eel in 2000 to cross the Atlantic and
explore Europe. This was back in the internet bubble when I though I
was going to have a lot of money. Now that my children are 10 and 11,
I don't think we will be doing something like this any time soon.
White Eel is an incredible boat. I've been wondering when Phil and
Suzanne were going to publish it and I didn't want to say much until
they had. I've been reading the MAIB articles and haven't found
anything new from the original proposal, except that they drew a
different tender on the top view in second article. The profile in
the picture I uploaded back in 2003 is my own rendering and it
includes changes to the window patterns based on my preferences back
then. If I were to build her today, I would use the PCB&F profile as
they designed it, not my 2003 version. I like theirs better.
As far as rolling, White Eel is supposed to make very fast passages
and be equipped with Gimbaled seats. Plus she is narrow and has a 4"
bottom.
Below is the letter that started it all.
Frank
--
Feb. 27, 2000
Phil Bolger & Friends
PO Box 1209, 29 Ferry St.
Gloucester, Ma 01930
Dear Phil and Susanne,
I have long considered taking a two year sabbatical to spend time
cruising with my family. When I read your series on ocean
passagemakers in MAIB recently, I was intrigued enough to get a copy
of "Voyaging under power" and read it cover to cover. I have been a
small boat coastal sailor all of my life and have always assumed that
my eventual ocean cruise would be in a large sailboat, but now I am a
convert to the seagoing motor cruiser (with one exception noted
below). I write this letter to you to explore the possibility of a
commission.
Here is the idea for our cruise (I had this plan before I read Bebe's
book, really). This cruise would start 3 to 4 years from now with
myself, my wife and our two young kids.
1. While working full time, purchase a used boat or have boat built
and outfitted at a shipyard.
2. Cruise the intracoastal waterway from Maine to Vero Beach, FL for 3
to 6 months. This trip has several purposes;
* a shakedown cruise for the boat
* shakedown cruise for crew: are we going to make it this way for
another year and half? Go/no-go decision.
* piloting and seamanship experience for captain and crew (this would
include appropriate classes in navigation, piloting, safety, etc)
* visit with friends in most of the states up and down the east coast.
3. Local exploring to be done on a 15' - 20' sail boat that is stowed
on deck. This would include overnight camp-cruising of up to a week
(we have plenty of experience in this). This is how I intend to
satisfy my sailing urge.
4. Wife and kids fly to Azores or England
5. Cross Atlantic with guest crew and meet family on the other side.
6. Cruise Europe and the Mediterranean
7. Return to US and sell the boat
8.Return to the full-time working life
So given this itinerary and my limited research, here is a short list
of features:
1. If I have it designed and built:
* steel construction appeals most to me.
* simple is good!
2. General
* capable of making the Atlantic crossing east-west and west-east and
cruising in Europe and the Mediterranean
* accommodations for live aboard for a family of four - two adults,
two small children (cruising grounds only).
* office space for all home schooling activities and supplies
* satellite communications for keeping up a part-time computer
software consulting business
* no more than 50' LOA
* draft, width and height above waterline for cruising the European
canal system is preferred
* fuel, water, stores and spares for a 2500 to 4000 mile cruising range
* paravane stabilization
* deck space for securing a 15' - 20' "captain's barge"
* modest cruising speed hull design
* heavy displacement (D/L 240-340)
* simple outfitting and accommodations; luxury items such as
complicated environmental controls, galley systems, electrical
systems, excessive brightwork are a definite negative. Workboat
finish is preferred.
* single reliable engine & associated systems preferred
Cruising Style:
* Our kids are 3 and 4 years old now, so they will be fairly young
when we embark. I intend to plan the voyage to avoid unnecessary heavy
weather passages. But when we are caught, I want a boat that is as
safe as possible. I would sacrifice deck space to have both a yawl
boat (like that on Bell's Puffer) and the captain's barge (perhaps
stacking like in the old days?)
* This is to be a full-time educational cruise. We intend to use the
boat as a floating school for the real-time study. One big field trip.
* We plan to do skin diving and scuba diving in the warmer parts of
our cruise.
* We plan to spend weeks in each port, exploring via captain's barge,
bicycle, train, bus, etc.
* I have experience with rebuilding auto engines, building small
wooden boats, performing electrical wiring and designing and debugging
electronics and computer systems. I want to be able to self-maintain
as much of the boat as possible.
* I expect to finance the entire project without obtaining a loan.
A little research with the yacht broker community leads me to believe
that it will be hard to find a used boat that meets all of these
criteria. If I were to sacrifice a few things like the captain's
barge and the French canals and accept some of the risks of buying a
used boat, I might buy and outfit a non-yachty cruiser for around
$200,000 - $300,000. But I'd really like to cruise the canals and
sail around in each port. And I really love your designs.
If I have a boat built myself, I expect to pay a premium for the
customized boat, and expect to take a significant loss on the sale of
the boat after two years (at least in small boats, it is always
cheaper to buy a used boat). Who knows, maybe my retired parents in
Florida will take it on. My father, who ran a shipyard for years, may
even help with the construction and outfitting phase (as well as parts
of the voyage).
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Garth,
>
> > I thought Frank San Miguel had commissioned the White Eel design back
> > in 2002 or so, when he was contemplating a Great Circle trip.
>
> That's my understanding, too. I recall Susanne mentioning a fellow up
> the road from me in Monument, CO who had commissioned a big
> liveaboard, and some time later I got an email from him, but I believe
> he and his family had moved from the area by that time. As that was
> several years ago, it's possible that White Eel no longer fits his
> family situation, but I couldn't say.
>
> One question I have on White Eel is how much of a roller it might be.
> No mention was made of anti-rolling devices in the articles that I
> recall, and even a flat-bottomed, hard-chined boat is going to roll
> some. I'm not sure I'd want to be at the on-deck bridge controls when
> that's happening.
>
> There's at least a profile view of this boat somewhere in one of the
> Bolger groups' Files section. Personally, I prefer the aesthetics of
> the fishing version shown in one of the MAIB articles over White Eel's
> looks. Something about White Eel says "AMC Pacer" to me.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/White%20Eel/
Peter
<jon@...> wrote:
> There's at least a profile view of this boat somewhere in one of theYup...right here:
> Bolger groups' Files section.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/White%20Eel/
Peter
Kristine
The troll fishery has seen a major resurgence lately. Troll permit
prices have tripled in the last 7-8 years. People are back to making a
living at it.
HJ
Kristine Bennett wrote:
The troll fishery has seen a major resurgence lately. Troll permit
prices have tripled in the last 7-8 years. People are back to making a
living at it.
HJ
Kristine Bennett wrote:
> I have spent a few days in the Gulf of Alaska. I have yet to see a boat that doesn't roll. I've been on 82 by 30 foot power barge going across the Gulf and when you are at the helm you feel like a BB in a matchbox.
>
> You are right a hard chine boat tends to roll less but they still roll. On a round bulged boat you can put rolling chocks and they help a lot. Even with what you people call paravanes I know as stabilizers or stabis will cut the roll but they don't stop it. At trolling speeds they add some drag, the hassle we had was keeping the speed down so we could troll
>
> Yes a bean sea is the worst for roll but deppending on the hull a stern quartering sea is the worst for controlling the boat.
>
> Ahhh yes the summers spent in a troll cockpit running gear in SE Alaska. It was a lot of work but you know I had fun doing it! Yep the old hook and line fishery. LOL the good old days! :)
>
> Yes I know I'm dating myself.
>
> Goddess Bless every one!
> Krissie
>
>
Everything rolls. Most large fishing vessels being built these days have antirolling tanks. most cruise ships have gyro controled fins to reduce and control transverse oscillations. Roll damping using chines or bilge keels helps but are not solutions for all situations. Chines and bilge keels are static. They slow the period of roll and provide some damping but in the wrong sea-state the vessels period of roll may synchronize the the period of the waves and the motion can be worse.
In a small boat you might effectivly change the period of roll by moving your body somewhere else in the boat perhaps higher or lower or athwartships. When paddling my double paddle canoe in rough water I tend to move my upper body in sympathy with the waves. I roll one side up a little so as the wave approaches the top won't slop into the boat....and as it passes under me, I roll that high side down a bit. This all sounds complex and it is a skill of a lifetime on/in small boats. I have never gone over when I did not intend to, though I have taken water over the side, perhaps a cup maximum. I do this close to shore and would not take this boat on longer open water crossings except in calm conditions.
JG
----- Original Message ----
From: Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:04:19 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: White Eel
I have spent a few days in the Gulf of Alaska. I have yet to see a boat that doesn't roll. I've been on 82 by 30 foot power barge going across the Gulf and when you are at the helm you feel like a BB in a matchbox.
You are right a hard chine boat tends to roll less but they still roll. On a round bulged boat you can put rolling chocks and they help a lot. Even with what you people call paravanes I know as stabilizers or stabis will cut the roll but they don't stop it. At trolling speeds they add some drag, the hassle we had was keeping the speed down so we could troll
Yes a bean sea is the worst for roll but deppending on the hull a stern quartering sea is the worst for controlling the boat.
Ahhh yes the summers spent in a troll cockpit running gear in SE Alaska. It was a lot of work but you know I had fun doing it! Yep the old hook and line fishery. LOL the good old days! :)
Yes I know I'm dating myself.
Goddess Bless every one!
Krissie
Charles Rouse <zavala@snowcrest. net> wrote:
Yeah, we could use some input from someone who does long trips in
motor craft to comment on this. Susanne A. was talking about a boat
while at Mystic in June. From her description, it may have been this
boat. She said they were trying for a design that would have
passagemaking capability with a relatively small engine and would use
hull form, I assume long and narrow, to achieve this and one aspect
of this economy of fuel would be to not use paravanes or similar
devices. While the paravane steadies, it also drags, of course. She
said (this is from memory) that the seat at the helm would be on a
sort of gimballed arangement so that the boat would roll and the
helmsman would be sitting steady. Of course even if it worked, the
crew would still be subject to the roll unless they had their own
gimballed seats. Robert Beebe said something about the worst roll is
a power boat in a beam sea and I think I can attest to that even if I
haven't gone accross an ocean in a power boat. Charles Rouse
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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In a small boat you might effectivly change the period of roll by moving your body somewhere else in the boat perhaps higher or lower or athwartships. When paddling my double paddle canoe in rough water I tend to move my upper body in sympathy with the waves. I roll one side up a little so as the wave approaches the top won't slop into the boat....and as it passes under me, I roll that high side down a bit. This all sounds complex and it is a skill of a lifetime on/in small boats. I have never gone over when I did not intend to, though I have taken water over the side, perhaps a cup maximum. I do this close to shore and would not take this boat on longer open water crossings except in calm conditions.
JG
----- Original Message ----
From: Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...>
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:04:19 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: White Eel
I have spent a few days in the Gulf of Alaska. I have yet to see a boat that doesn't roll. I've been on 82 by 30 foot power barge going across the Gulf and when you are at the helm you feel like a BB in a matchbox.
You are right a hard chine boat tends to roll less but they still roll. On a round bulged boat you can put rolling chocks and they help a lot. Even with what you people call paravanes I know as stabilizers or stabis will cut the roll but they don't stop it. At trolling speeds they add some drag, the hassle we had was keeping the speed down so we could troll
Yes a bean sea is the worst for roll but deppending on the hull a stern quartering sea is the worst for controlling the boat.
Ahhh yes the summers spent in a troll cockpit running gear in SE Alaska. It was a lot of work but you know I had fun doing it! Yep the old hook and line fishery. LOL the good old days! :)
Yes I know I'm dating myself.
Goddess Bless every one!
Krissie
Charles Rouse <zavala@snowcrest. net> wrote:
Yeah, we could use some input from someone who does long trips in
motor craft to comment on this. Susanne A. was talking about a boat
while at Mystic in June. From her description, it may have been this
boat. She said they were trying for a design that would have
passagemaking capability with a relatively small engine and would use
hull form, I assume long and narrow, to achieve this and one aspect
of this economy of fuel would be to not use paravanes or similar
devices. While the paravane steadies, it also drags, of course. She
said (this is from memory) that the seat at the helm would be on a
sort of gimballed arangement so that the boat would roll and the
helmsman would be sitting steady. Of course even if it worked, the
crew would still be subject to the roll unless they had their own
gimballed seats. Robert Beebe said something about the worst roll is
a power boat in a beam sea and I think I can attest to that even if I
haven't gone accross an ocean in a power boat. Charles Rouse
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Get news delivered with the All new Yahoo! Mail. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. Start today at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have spent a few days in the Gulf of Alaska. I have yet to see a boat that doesn't roll. I've been on 82 by 30 foot power barge going across the Gulf and when you are at the helm you feel like a BB in a matchbox.
You are right a hard chine boat tends to roll less but they still roll. On a round bulged boat you can put rolling chocks and they help a lot. Even with what you people call paravanes I know as stabilizers or stabis will cut the roll but they don't stop it. At trolling speeds they add some drag, the hassle we had was keeping the speed down so we could troll
Yes a bean sea is the worst for roll but deppending on the hull a stern quartering sea is the worst for controlling the boat.
Ahhh yes the summers spent in a troll cockpit running gear in SE Alaska. It was a lot of work but you know I had fun doing it! Yep the old hook and line fishery. LOL the good old days! :)
Yes I know I'm dating myself.
Goddess Bless every one!
Krissie
Charles Rouse <zavala@...> wrote:
Yeah, we could use some input from someone who does long trips in
motor craft to comment on this. Susanne A. was talking about a boat
while at Mystic in June. From her description, it may have been this
boat. She said they were trying for a design that would have
passagemaking capability with a relatively small engine and would use
hull form, I assume long and narrow, to achieve this and one aspect
of this economy of fuel would be to not use paravanes or similar
devices. While the paravane steadies, it also drags, of course. She
said (this is from memory) that the seat at the helm would be on a
sort of gimballed arangement so that the boat would roll and the
helmsman would be sitting steady. Of course even if it worked, the
crew would still be subject to the roll unless they had their own
gimballed seats. Robert Beebe said something about the worst roll is
a power boat in a beam sea and I think I can attest to that even if I
haven't gone accross an ocean in a power boat. Charles Rouse
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are right a hard chine boat tends to roll less but they still roll. On a round bulged boat you can put rolling chocks and they help a lot. Even with what you people call paravanes I know as stabilizers or stabis will cut the roll but they don't stop it. At trolling speeds they add some drag, the hassle we had was keeping the speed down so we could troll
Yes a bean sea is the worst for roll but deppending on the hull a stern quartering sea is the worst for controlling the boat.
Ahhh yes the summers spent in a troll cockpit running gear in SE Alaska. It was a lot of work but you know I had fun doing it! Yep the old hook and line fishery. LOL the good old days! :)
Yes I know I'm dating myself.
Goddess Bless every one!
Krissie
Charles Rouse <zavala@...> wrote:
Yeah, we could use some input from someone who does long trips in
motor craft to comment on this. Susanne A. was talking about a boat
while at Mystic in June. From her description, it may have been this
boat. She said they were trying for a design that would have
passagemaking capability with a relatively small engine and would use
hull form, I assume long and narrow, to achieve this and one aspect
of this economy of fuel would be to not use paravanes or similar
devices. While the paravane steadies, it also drags, of course. She
said (this is from memory) that the seat at the helm would be on a
sort of gimballed arangement so that the boat would roll and the
helmsman would be sitting steady. Of course even if it worked, the
crew would still be subject to the roll unless they had their own
gimballed seats. Robert Beebe said something about the worst roll is
a power boat in a beam sea and I think I can attest to that even if I
haven't gone accross an ocean in a power boat. Charles Rouse
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> the worst roll is a power boat in a beam sea and I thinkBeebee, Bolger and Altenberger all are very well informed on hull
shape and beam sea roll.
I can imagine the difference in roll of a 1 foot wide cylinder and a 1
foot wide plank. The cylinder rolls more easily than the plank.
And, personally I observe that the 'hard chine' of a Micro seems have
much less beam sea roll than a similar sized rounded hull. In short
flat bottom sharpies, I think, have favorable beam sea roll character.
Still, fatigue risk on ocean passagemakers justifies a gimbaled seat,
like with Tahiti and HG Hassler. (Hassler even has a gimbaled
sleeping berth.)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,
"adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
motor craft to comment on this. Susanne A. was talking about a boat
while at Mystic in June. From her description, it may have been this
boat. She said they were trying for a design that would have
passagemaking capability with a relatively small engine and would use
hull form, I assume long and narrow, to achieve this and one aspect
of this economy of fuel would be to not use paravanes or similar
devices. While the paravane steadies, it also drags, of course. She
said (this is from memory) that the seat at the helm would be on a
sort of gimballed arangement so that the boat would roll and the
helmsman would be sitting steady. Of course even if it worked, the
crew would still be subject to the roll unless they had their own
gimballed seats. Robert Beebe said something about the worst roll is
a power boat in a beam sea and I think I can attest to that even if I
haven't gone accross an ocean in a power boat. Charles Rouse
"adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...> wrote:
>back
> Hi Garth,
>
> > I thought Frank San Miguel had commissioned the White Eel design
> > in 2002 or so, when he was contemplating a Great Circle trip.up
>
> That's my understanding, too. I recall Susanne mentioning a fellow
> the road from me in Monument, CO who had commissioned a bigbelieve
> liveaboard, and some time later I got an email from him, but I
> he and his family had moved from the area by that time. As thatwas
> several years ago, it's possible that White Eel no longer fits hisbe.
> family situation, but I couldn't say.
>
> One question I have on White Eel is how much of a roller it might
> No mention was made of anti-rolling devices in the articles that Iwhen
> recall, and even a flat-bottomed, hard-chined boat is going to roll
> some. I'm not sure I'd want to be at the on-deck bridge controls
> that's happening.Yeah, we could use some input from someone who does long trips in
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
motor craft to comment on this. Susanne A. was talking about a boat
while at Mystic in June. From her description, it may have been this
boat. She said they were trying for a design that would have
passagemaking capability with a relatively small engine and would use
hull form, I assume long and narrow, to achieve this and one aspect
of this economy of fuel would be to not use paravanes or similar
devices. While the paravane steadies, it also drags, of course. She
said (this is from memory) that the seat at the helm would be on a
sort of gimballed arangement so that the boat would roll and the
helmsman would be sitting steady. Of course even if it worked, the
crew would still be subject to the roll unless they had their own
gimballed seats. Robert Beebe said something about the worst roll is
a power boat in a beam sea and I think I can attest to that even if I
haven't gone accross an ocean in a power boat. Charles Rouse
On 10/19/07, adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...> wrote:
A few things I recall for the article 100 hp inboard diesel, with an
odd 'dog leg' in the drive train. 400 sheets of 1/2" plywood. A
fascinating 'midship' cockpit console. About $100K of building cost
rough estimate. Large fuel and water 'tankage' at midship, plus a
giant 'don't look down' head. Berths for about eight people.
> recall, and even a flat-bottomed, hard-chined boat is going to rollLike a battleship?
> the fishing version shown in one of the MAIB articles over White Eel'sTo me the swoopy windows remind me of Tahiti.
> looks. Something about White Eel says "AMC Pacer" to me.
A few things I recall for the article 100 hp inboard diesel, with an
odd 'dog leg' in the drive train. 400 sheets of 1/2" plywood. A
fascinating 'midship' cockpit console. About $100K of building cost
rough estimate. Large fuel and water 'tankage' at midship, plus a
giant 'don't look down' head. Berths for about eight people.
You can subscribe to "MAIB" and receive it on the web. I think Bob Hicks
was just writing about it in the last issue but I don't have at hand. Clyde
Kenneth Grome wrote:
was just writing about it in the last issue but I don't have at hand. Clyde
Kenneth Grome wrote:
> I wouldn't have received the first of those last two issues of MAIB by[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> now even if I were a subscriber. It usually takes a month before I get
> things in the mail from the USA.
>
> I bought a bunch of old issues of MAIB from a guy who was selling them a
> couple months ago, but they haven't been shipped to me in the
> Philippines yet, so I don't even have the old issues to look at ... but
> I'm hoping to get them by Christmas.
>
> The limited description of White Eel sounds interesting, thanks for the
> head's up Bruce, I'll be interested in checking it out some day.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ken Grome
> Bagacay Boatworks
> www.bagacayboatworks.com
>
> > Oops, I presumed everybody was reading the Bolger articles in the
> > magazine Messing About In Boats. The last two issues featured an in
> > depth discussion of White Eel, which is in the new family of
> > 'sustainable' fishery boats, though White Eel is not explicitly
> > rigged for fishing, but one could imagine such.
> >
> > > Where can we see the drawings and read more about it?
>
> --
>
>
Hi Garth,
the road from me in Monument, CO who had commissioned a big
liveaboard, and some time later I got an email from him, but I believe
he and his family had moved from the area by that time. As that was
several years ago, it's possible that White Eel no longer fits his
family situation, but I couldn't say.
One question I have on White Eel is how much of a roller it might be.
No mention was made of anti-rolling devices in the articles that I
recall, and even a flat-bottomed, hard-chined boat is going to roll
some. I'm not sure I'd want to be at the on-deck bridge controls when
that's happening.
There's at least a profile view of this boat somewhere in one of the
Bolger groups' Files section. Personally, I prefer the aesthetics of
the fishing version shown in one of the MAIB articles over White Eel's
looks. Something about White Eel says "AMC Pacer" to me.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> I thought Frank San Miguel had commissioned the White Eel design backThat's my understanding, too. I recall Susanne mentioning a fellow up
> in 2002 or so, when he was contemplating a Great Circle trip.
the road from me in Monument, CO who had commissioned a big
liveaboard, and some time later I got an email from him, but I believe
he and his family had moved from the area by that time. As that was
several years ago, it's possible that White Eel no longer fits his
family situation, but I couldn't say.
One question I have on White Eel is how much of a roller it might be.
No mention was made of anti-rolling devices in the articles that I
recall, and even a flat-bottomed, hard-chined boat is going to roll
some. I'm not sure I'd want to be at the on-deck bridge controls when
that's happening.
There's at least a profile view of this boat somewhere in one of the
Bolger groups' Files section. Personally, I prefer the aesthetics of
the fishing version shown in one of the MAIB articles over White Eel's
looks. Something about White Eel says "AMC Pacer" to me.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I thought Frank San Miguel had commissioned the White Eel design back
in 2002 or so, when he was contemplating a Great Circle trip.
Garth
in 2002 or so, when he was contemplating a Great Circle trip.
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Oops, I presumed everybody was reading the Bolger articles in the
> magazine Messing About In Boats. The last two issues featured an in
> depth discussion of White Eel, which is in the new family of
> 'sustainable' fishery boats, though White Eel is not explicitly rigged
> for fishing, but one could imagine such.
>
>
> >
> > Where can we see the drawings and read more about it?
>
I wouldn't have received the first of those last two issues of MAIB by
now even if I were a subscriber. It usually takes a month before I get
things in the mail from the USA.
I bought a bunch of old issues of MAIB from a guy who was selling them a
couple months ago, but they haven't been shipped to me in the
Philippines yet, so I don't even have the old issues to look at ... but
I'm hoping to get them by Christmas.
The limited description of White Eel sounds interesting, thanks for the
head's up Bruce, I'll be interested in checking it out some day.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
now even if I were a subscriber. It usually takes a month before I get
things in the mail from the USA.
I bought a bunch of old issues of MAIB from a guy who was selling them a
couple months ago, but they haven't been shipped to me in the
Philippines yet, so I don't even have the old issues to look at ... but
I'm hoping to get them by Christmas.
The limited description of White Eel sounds interesting, thanks for the
head's up Bruce, I'll be interested in checking it out some day.
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> Oops, I presumed everybody was reading the Bolger articles in the--
> magazine Messing About In Boats. The last two issues featured an in
> depth discussion of White Eel, which is in the new family of
> 'sustainable' fishery boats, though White Eel is not explicitly
> rigged for fishing, but one could imagine such.
>
> > Where can we see the drawings and read more about it?
I did a search and was directed back to the group to the message #29943 where someone gives the specs for the "White Eel" and thats all I could find.
Andrew
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Andrew
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Oops, I presumed everybody was reading the Bolger articles in the
magazine Messing About In Boats. The last two issues featured an in
depth discussion of White Eel, which is in the new family of
'sustainable' fishery boats, though White Eel is not explicitly rigged
for fishing, but one could imagine such.
magazine Messing About In Boats. The last two issues featured an in
depth discussion of White Eel, which is in the new family of
'sustainable' fishery boats, though White Eel is not explicitly rigged
for fishing, but one could imagine such.
>
> Where can we see the drawings and read more about it?
Me too.. I am totally unfamiliar with it.. don't remember seeing it on the bolger plans site.. where can we find out more about it?
Andrew
Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Andrew
Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:
> Isn't the new Bolger design 'White Eel' fascinating?Where can we see the drawings and read more about it?
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Isn't the new Bolger design 'White Eel' fascinating?Where can we see the drawings and read more about it?
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
I cannot sit around and take this silently anymore! Isn't the new
Bolger design 'White Eel' fascinating? What a great conceptual
live-a-board. I can easily envision building that hull, essentially a
tripled Topaz. Hire a couple $10/hr helpers, some cheap bulk epoxy
and build it, (rent a rough terrain forklift a few times for the
flips). About as easy as building a small house.
Bolger design 'White Eel' fascinating? What a great conceptual
live-a-board. I can easily envision building that hull, essentially a
tripled Topaz. Hire a couple $10/hr helpers, some cheap bulk epoxy
and build it, (rent a rough terrain forklift a few times for the
flips). About as easy as building a small house.
I've uploaded my own rendering of White Eel into the Bolger3 Files
Section. It's not perfectly accurate, but I think the profile is
mostly correct.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/White%20Eel/
Section. It's not perfectly accurate, but I think the profile is
mostly correct.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/files/White%20Eel/