Insolent 60 (was Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/
--T
> So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curiousShe included a comma at the end.. this one will work:
> Stephan
http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent/
--T
You might also consider the coastal cruiser by hankinson. The plans come with 23', 25', 27' lengths and they're trailerable with 8 1/2' beam. Nice pics and view of layout here:
http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=coastalcrsr.html&&cart_id=2295227_23173
Ken
http://www.boatdesigns.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi?page=coastalcrsr.html&&cart_id=2295227_23173
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: rsmboatbuilder
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:31 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
cloudy.
Key design considerations I have -
1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
etc etc etc
4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
looking
5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc
That's it and this is what I have found
Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90%http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
Bayside 29 close toohttp://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJenniferalso violates some
http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
OK and now for the Bolger candidates
Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
no powercat outdrive
A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM
Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc
All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
efficient.
Regards and good luck!
Ian
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@h...> wrote:
I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (version
of Idaho)
Check out his Minnesota design, essentially a flat bottomed Dakota
with the head at the extreme stern in it's own "outhouse". I've long
loved Minnie.
Bruce Hector
I actually have the same goal and I have a small family that will
continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
cloudy.
Key design considerations I have -
1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
etc etc etc
4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
looking
5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc
That's it and this is what I have found
Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90%http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
Bayside 29 close toohttp://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJenniferalso violates some
http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
OK and now for the Bolger candidates
Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
no powercat outdrive
A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM
Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc
All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
efficient.
Regards and good luck!
Ian
continue to stay small. There are three of us - Two adults and one
young child. I have spent countless hours pouring over Bolger
designs and those of www.CMDboats.com, and The troller designs of
George Behuler. And there are many arguments for each point of
view. I have spoken with Karl and Phil about boats for this region
and have rolled over sail vs. power for countless sleepless nights.
So I don't know if I will enlighten or just make the world more
cloudy.
Key design considerations I have -
1. An Ocean boat not a lake boat - This means some hull form for
handling Deception pass and making your way to Pt Roberts
2. Cozy interior not huge and spacious - Interior is for sleeping and
eating there should be some commune with the outdoors - Life is not
lived indoors (Unless your Canadian - Oh I will hear it on that one)
3. Small diesel power nothing over displacement speed definitely not
planing - I like efficiency and quiet operation over speed in arrival
etc etc etc
4. Pleasing to the eye inside and out - Nice sheer great character
looks like its either brand new or 60 years old cant quite tell from
looking
5. A nice head - This is my wifes consideration and she would place
this at number 1 but she isn't typing - Stand up and take a shower
sit down and take a ... NO PORTA POTTY - DLD toilet etc
That's it and this is what I have found
Puffin 28 - This fits us about 90%http://www.cmdboats.com/puffin.htm
Bayside 29 close toohttp://www.cmdboats.com/bayside29.htm
Black Crown 27 violates a few rules like cost
http://www.devlinboat.com/dcbc27.htmJenniferalso violates some
http://www.gartsideboats.com/jennifer.php
OK and now for the Bolger candidates
Bolgers Diesel cruiser cartoon study with fore and aft cabins
A smaller power only Fuji style boat 32' in length and direct drive
no powercat outdrive
A stretched Alice stretched to 32-35'
Fast Motorsailer also violates a few rules
Plywood diesel cruiser Ch 56 BWOM
Buehler has some great boats too such as Diesel Duck etc
All in all I still like the Puffin since much of the cost of a power
boat is the engine and running gear I like to keep things small and
efficient.
Regards and good luck!
Ian
When I imagine Puget Sound, I think of the libertarians, living below
the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle
Harbor. If you are not in a hurry, and can wait for the tide and
wind to be right, why not build an Illinois? She would be the
perfect, drift from this cove to the next cove live-aboard. It would
take more years than one life to explore all the coves in Puget Sound
and the waters to the north.
the radar screen in the innumerable coves and inlets; such as Eagle
Harbor. If you are not in a hurry, and can wait for the tide and
wind to be right, why not build an Illinois? She would be the
perfect, drift from this cove to the next cove live-aboard. It would
take more years than one life to explore all the coves in Puget Sound
and the waters to the north.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Gilham"
<wgilham@h...> wrote:
back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in
recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you are nuts. The cure? Well, I think
it's a good dose of the very thing that ails you, me and the rest of
this board and beyound - just DO IT
Deciding and commiting on what to do (build) has been the
hardest thing for me, personally. I have soooo many factors to
consider that it bogles my mind at times. Precious time is
limited too... Thus, I want to decide once more as wisely as I can
given the present sum total of my affairs.
Idaho is way cool for what it is designed to do. It can be easily
modified as well. I do have the plans and many modifications
sketched out, but with my family size (6) and age range (7-15.5
((energy needs space)) I'm afraid she's more a fast transport
than adventure rig. Maybe when we are few...
I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWSOME INPUT
POSTED ON THIS BOARD AND DIRECTLY.
Jeff
nuts II
<wgilham@h...> wrote:
> I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.That's what I like about this group. Those who post don't hold
> HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
> tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising
>WEEKS
> before any of the more intricate designs.
>
> Am I nuts?
>
> Wayne Gilham
back and even acknowledge their condition, the first step in
recovery Rx. Yes Wayne, you are nuts. The cure? Well, I think
it's a good dose of the very thing that ails you, me and the rest of
this board and beyound - just DO IT
Deciding and commiting on what to do (build) has been the
hardest thing for me, personally. I have soooo many factors to
consider that it bogles my mind at times. Precious time is
limited too... Thus, I want to decide once more as wisely as I can
given the present sum total of my affairs.
Idaho is way cool for what it is designed to do. It can be easily
modified as well. I do have the plans and many modifications
sketched out, but with my family size (6) and age range (7-15.5
((energy needs space)) I'm afraid she's more a fast transport
than adventure rig. Maybe when we are few...
I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR AWSOME INPUT
POSTED ON THIS BOARD AND DIRECTLY.
Jeff
nuts II
I've always lusted after the "Idaho" design.
In particular, from all I've gathered aout it over the years, it seems to
plane even when standing still -- especially, it doesn't dig a hole when
increasing speed. and with essentially only a bit of froth left behind
from your passing, the thousands of shore dwellers and anchored boaters will
be smiling as you pass by, even (heck, especially) at full-tilt -- a far cry
better in respect-for-others than those huge holes-in-the-water chopped out
(and rolling over the beaches) from all them inefficient Bayliners ETC ETC
that roil up our otherwise mostly calm waters....
What's unclear to me is the expected performance in a chop.... some have
said she should be smoother than expected 'cause the length supported by
water will bridge-over the waves... others think she'll just knife THRU chop
instead of rising up over every wave, thus not pounding (but boy could those
straight-sided bows throw wet spray!). HEY, any Sneakeasy owners: COMMENTS,
please!! I'd use prudence not to go out in anything over two or
three-foot chop, just wait for the waves to subside (which up here in Puget
Sound they almost ALWAYS do a few hours later when the current-direction
changes to with-the-wind instead of against-it....unless it's a big storm,
for which there's usually good advance warning)
I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (was thinking of
commissioning PCB to bless this idea or re-design it altogether-- maybe this
winter....) especially since as-designed (for Bernie Wolfard in his
wheelchair) she doesn't have standing headroom in the cabin, only a little
over 5' -- and I'd hate to destroy the good proportions by just raising the
cabintop on the existing design -- wonder what the up-scaling would do to
Phil's usually very economical use of 4x8 plywood sheets?
Another change for the NW would be to make the fwd & aft cockpits
self-draining (would need a false-floor above waterline -- but that'd be
only a couple of inches of "wasted space" higher, no?) -- else you'd be
sponging out that last bit of rainwater a bit too often (gotta keep up that
myth that it rains here all the time so ya all won't move here next week...
)
Put a good rowing boat up on the cabintop (how about a Platt Monfort
Geodesic Ultralite whitehall? pardon the blasphemy, but the light weight up
so high would be best for balance AND for easy-launch), a bunch of those
ubiquitious and cheap fold-up chinese canvas-chairs, a blow-up queen-sized
mattress with built-in inflator (deflate in the morning for more cabin room)
a prota-potti in the aft corner of the cabin, with pull-around
shower-curtain for privacy, A Toyoset forced-air kerosene heater (outside
vented) -- the most expensive "bit" at about $1200 (see http://www
toyotomiusa.com/products/cabinboatheaters/NS-2700-2.html), but essential for
NW cruising! --and HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising WEEKS
before any of the more intricate designs.
Am I nuts?
Wayne Gilham
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In particular, from all I've gathered aout it over the years, it seems to
plane even when standing still -- especially, it doesn't dig a hole when
increasing speed. and with essentially only a bit of froth left behind
from your passing, the thousands of shore dwellers and anchored boaters will
be smiling as you pass by, even (heck, especially) at full-tilt -- a far cry
better in respect-for-others than those huge holes-in-the-water chopped out
(and rolling over the beaches) from all them inefficient Bayliners ETC ETC
that roil up our otherwise mostly calm waters....
What's unclear to me is the expected performance in a chop.... some have
said she should be smoother than expected 'cause the length supported by
water will bridge-over the waves... others think she'll just knife THRU chop
instead of rising up over every wave, thus not pounding (but boy could those
straight-sided bows throw wet spray!). HEY, any Sneakeasy owners: COMMENTS,
please!! I'd use prudence not to go out in anything over two or
three-foot chop, just wait for the waves to subside (which up here in Puget
Sound they almost ALWAYS do a few hours later when the current-direction
changes to with-the-wind instead of against-it....unless it's a big storm,
for which there's usually good advance warning)
I'd think seriously to scale her up altogether to about 36' (was thinking of
commissioning PCB to bless this idea or re-design it altogether-- maybe this
winter....) especially since as-designed (for Bernie Wolfard in his
wheelchair) she doesn't have standing headroom in the cabin, only a little
over 5' -- and I'd hate to destroy the good proportions by just raising the
cabintop on the existing design -- wonder what the up-scaling would do to
Phil's usually very economical use of 4x8 plywood sheets?
Another change for the NW would be to make the fwd & aft cockpits
self-draining (would need a false-floor above waterline -- but that'd be
only a couple of inches of "wasted space" higher, no?) -- else you'd be
sponging out that last bit of rainwater a bit too often (gotta keep up that
myth that it rains here all the time so ya all won't move here next week...
)
Put a good rowing boat up on the cabintop (how about a Platt Monfort
Geodesic Ultralite whitehall? pardon the blasphemy, but the light weight up
so high would be best for balance AND for easy-launch), a bunch of those
ubiquitious and cheap fold-up chinese canvas-chairs, a blow-up queen-sized
mattress with built-in inflator (deflate in the morning for more cabin room)
a prota-potti in the aft corner of the cabin, with pull-around
shower-curtain for privacy, A Toyoset forced-air kerosene heater (outside
vented) -- the most expensive "bit" at about $1200 (see http://www
toyotomiusa.com/products/cabinboatheaters/NS-2700-2.html), but essential for
NW cruising! --and HEY, you've got a practical weekender boat WITHOUT the
tedious construction of all that interior furniture, out cruising WEEKS
before any of the more intricate designs.
Am I nuts?
Wayne Gilham
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Any land that is in the public domain is controled by
some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor.
Lon
--- Ken Locarnini <renueden@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
some burecrates who do not like nomads at anchor.
Lon
--- Ken Locarnini <renueden@...> wrote:
> But even if you do get that waterfront property,__________________________________
> keep it in the public domain so we can all share.
> Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads
> should give up.....
> nunativs
>
> -------Original Message-------
> From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
> Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for
> NW/Puget Sound waters?
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
But even if you do get that waterfront property, keep it in the public domain so we can all share. Land/water ownership is a habit all good nomads should give up.....
nunativs
-------Original Message-------
From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
nunativs
-------Original Message-------
From: jeffsprayer <jeffsprayer@...>
Sent: 08/02/03 12:47 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ben_azo" <ben_azo@h...> wrote:
after 'insolent', then the address will work. I mean, when
the 'error' message shows up, go to the address with your cursor,
click, it will turn blue, click again until the cursor shows up, go
to the 'virgule' delete it, click enter and there you go.
pep
> So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curiousStephan, try to delete the comma that Susan inadvertantly typed
> Stephan
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
> <futabachan@y...> wrote:
> > accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is
> available
> > athttp://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent,but there have
>
> > -- Sue --
> > (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
> > --
> > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
after 'insolent', then the address will work. I mean, when
the 'error' message shows up, go to the address with your cursor,
click, it will turn blue, click again until the cursor shows up, go
to the 'virgule' delete it, click enter and there you go.
pep
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Smith"
<the_jopasm@y...> wrote:
dock.
<the_jopasm@y...> wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer"<jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
> > Hi all,Yes it does, unless I end up with waterfront property and my own
> > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
> > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
>
> Does it need to be trailerable?
>
> Jonathan
dock.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...> wrote:
Jonathan
> Hi all,Does it need to be trailerable?
> Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
> researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
Jonathan
It's understood that in answering a question like this, we all add in
our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes
much greater than average self-confidence to tolerate a boat with a
top speed that is 1/3 of that of the boats belonging to all your
friends. The group intinerary will be set for the majority, and your
participation in the fleet manouvers will be limited. (This was my
father's experience with an underpowered Hunter 30 that motored about
4.5 kts in fleet of better sailboats that motored at 6 kts. The speed
difference would be greater for powerboats.) Hence, I think you need
at least semi-displacement speed - 10 or 12 kts minimum. Besides, the
distances in Puget Sound can be rather long.
Second, that cruising area leads the nation in providing weather
protection for the crew. I would be looking for a way to get folks
undercover when it rains.
If money was not an object and a custom design could be had, I would
think in terms of the Mikim model, with perhaps power for a higher
speed potential. The equivalent in a plywood boat would be the
Plywood Diesel Cruiser. Arch Davis's v-bottom Jiffy-22 is similar.
None of these has the accomodations set up for what you need, though.
One boat you might look at is the Fast Motorsailer as shown in BWAOM.
When the weather is nice and folks are happy to be either in or out,
you could take a crowd. I'm not quite sure how many can squeeze in
the cabin during a squall, but it's pretty roomy. You can build her
without the rig, as was done in one notable case for which there was
an article in MAIB (and perhaps on the web somehere). As I recall, he
got 17 kts from a 4-stroke 50 and was dissatisfied, so went to a
100hp and cruises in the mid-twenties. It's a homebuildable, plywood
boat, and could be trailered.
Interestinly enough, Bolger showed an Economy Motorsailer in his book
The Folding Schooner. I never heard of this boat being built, but I
always thought it was pretty cool as a powerboat. The rig cluttered
it up, and I certainly wouldn't do that the same way now. It's a
strip-planked 26' boat with semi-displacement lines. The comparison
with the Fast Motorsailer is pretty interesting.
Peter
our own notions and preferences. In my case, I think that it takes
much greater than average self-confidence to tolerate a boat with a
top speed that is 1/3 of that of the boats belonging to all your
friends. The group intinerary will be set for the majority, and your
participation in the fleet manouvers will be limited. (This was my
father's experience with an underpowered Hunter 30 that motored about
4.5 kts in fleet of better sailboats that motored at 6 kts. The speed
difference would be greater for powerboats.) Hence, I think you need
at least semi-displacement speed - 10 or 12 kts minimum. Besides, the
distances in Puget Sound can be rather long.
Second, that cruising area leads the nation in providing weather
protection for the crew. I would be looking for a way to get folks
undercover when it rains.
If money was not an object and a custom design could be had, I would
think in terms of the Mikim model, with perhaps power for a higher
speed potential. The equivalent in a plywood boat would be the
Plywood Diesel Cruiser. Arch Davis's v-bottom Jiffy-22 is similar.
None of these has the accomodations set up for what you need, though.
One boat you might look at is the Fast Motorsailer as shown in BWAOM.
When the weather is nice and folks are happy to be either in or out,
you could take a crowd. I'm not quite sure how many can squeeze in
the cabin during a squall, but it's pretty roomy. You can build her
without the rig, as was done in one notable case for which there was
an article in MAIB (and perhaps on the web somehere). As I recall, he
got 17 kts from a 4-stroke 50 and was dissatisfied, so went to a
100hp and cruises in the mid-twenties. It's a homebuildable, plywood
boat, and could be trailered.
Interestinly enough, Bolger showed an Economy Motorsailer in his book
The Folding Schooner. I never heard of this boat being built, but I
always thought it was pretty cool as a powerboat. The rig cluttered
it up, and I certainly wouldn't do that the same way now. It's a
strip-planked 26' boat with semi-displacement lines. The comparison
with the Fast Motorsailer is pretty interesting.
Peter
sounds like Sitka Explorer could be included in the list
ken
ken
> From: "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@...>
> Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 04:38:43 -0000
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Good motored designs for NW/Puget Sound waters?
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
> wrote:
>>>
>> Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
>> rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
>> relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
>> distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
>> to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
>> the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
>> design can be. ; )
>>
>> I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
>> cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
>> under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
>> some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
>> blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
> Thus,
>> what-ever I can get!
>>
>> Trailerable.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Jeff
>
>
>
> Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
> gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
> options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
> head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
> for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
> stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
> of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
> members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
> be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
> for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
> else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
> You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jeffsprayer" <jeffsprayer@y...>
wrote:
gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
wrote:
>>Thus,
> Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
> rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
> relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
> distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
> to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
> the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
> design can be. ; )
>
> I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
> cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
> under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
> some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
> blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
> what-ever I can get!Sounds like a job for WINDERMERE! 6 knot cruising speed, 200 gallon
>
> Trailerable.
>
> Thanks again,
> Jeff
gas,insulated and heated cabin,great outdoor views,all sorts of
options for controlling your sheltered living environment,enclosed
head/shower space,dinette can convert to a double,outboard powered
for relatively"easy" maintenance issues,fully galley with
stove/oven,sink,cupboards etc,lots of space on roof top for a couple
of dinghys for the occasional shore excursion for your family
members,full standing headroom throughout,extra folding cots could
be set up in forward salon for the other kids,private aft stateroom
for two,large battery banks for real long range autonomy........what
else can I add other then to say she is also home build-able :-)
You can see some details of her over in the files section of Bolger2.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,WINDERMERE fan................
So sory I cant follow the link via my server,and I am so curious
Stephan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
<futabachan@y...> wrote:
Stephan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
<futabachan@y...> wrote:
> I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'mcommissioning
> her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. Butfrom
> what you write, there may actually be a match here....with
>
> > From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
> > will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
> > any pics/drawings links?.
>
> Actually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
> commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser
> accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her isavailable
> athttp://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent,but there havebeen
> some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.it's
> (The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
> among other things.)
>
> > I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if
> > cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery whileand
> > under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order
> > some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be reallyThus,
> > blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford.
> > what-ever I can get!two
> >
> > Trailerable.
>
> The I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
> "tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep
> more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroomthrough
> the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course(peeing
> over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, andenormous
> open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.me,
>
> > Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for
> > my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen cangive,
> > save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.through
>
> The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
> stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
> good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
> video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view
> the huge glass windows.my
>
> > I'd prefer using the wind and stars
> > but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with
> > family and friends.finished
>
> That would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't
> designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with aweather"
> dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
> one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
> keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
> to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
> attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.
>
> If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
> to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all
> cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode"when the
> wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds orother
> to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
> that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two
> owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
> similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)
>
> -- Sue --
> (unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
I actually threw out the I60 as a joke -- since I'm commissioning
her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But from
what you write, there may actually be a match here....
commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser with
accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is available
athttp://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent,but there have been
some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
(The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
among other things.)
"tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep two
more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom through
the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course (peeing
over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and enormous
open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.
stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view through
the huge glass windows.
designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.
If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all weather"
cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode" when the
wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two other
owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)
-- Sue --
(unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
her from PCB, I've got the "shiny new hammer" syndrome. But from
what you write, there may actually be a match here....
> From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think itActually, she is a cruising boat now -- when David and I
> will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wrong? Got
> any pics/drawings links?.
commissioned her, we had PCB redo her as a family cruiser with
accomodations for 6. The one extant drawing of her is available
athttp://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent,but there have been
some fairly substantial changes, according to PCB, since then.
(The rudder is no longer stern-hung, and she's a foot wider,
among other things.)
> I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it'sThe I60 features an owner's double berth, two single berths in
> cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
> under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
> some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
> blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
> what-ever I can get!
>
> Trailerable.
"tunnels" astride the foremast, and a salon that could sleep two
more, all in a "birdwatcher" cabin with standing headroom through
the open centerline hatches. There's a head, of course (peeing
over the side isn't an option for me), and a galley, and enormous
open cockpits forward and aft for lounging in fair weather.
> Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,The main cabin of the I60 is a "birdwatcher" cabin -- everyone
> my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
> save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.
stays warm and dry if the weather is foul (or under shade with
good ventilation if it's beastly hot; have you seen the WDJ
video from Lake Mead?), but has a really spectacular view through
the huge glass windows.
> I'd prefer using the wind and starsThat would be the obvious problem with the I60: PCB hasn't finished
> but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
> family and friends.
designing her yet. You'll also get on the water faster with a
dedicated powerboat than you will with any sailboat, especially
one with a split rig, standing rigging, and a retractable winged
keel. If you've never sailed before, you'll also probably want
to build or buy a smaller sailboat first for learning before
attempting to handle a 60 foot schooner.
If you're up for a big project, though, there's a lot of upside
to the I60: daysailing with a dozen or more guests, "all weather"
cruising with 4-6, 10+ knot performance in "Wyoming mode" when the
wind dies or on canals, trailering to distant cruising grounds or
to race other I60s or schooners, all on a visually stunning boat
that's easy to build for her size. And you know at least two other
owners by virtue of being on this list. (A smaller project with
similar virtues would be the William D. Jochems.)
-- Sue --
(unofficial I60 class secretary and head cheerleader)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis"
<futabachan@y...> wrote:
From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
pics/drawings links?.
I'd love to learn how to sail but there just aint much of it here in
AZ to learn-by-doing on a regular basis. Once in Washington,
now that's one of my goals. I'd prefer using the wind and stars
but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
family and friends.
Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.
Here is some more info from another reply I gave in case you
didn't read it...
Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
design can be. ; )
I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
what-ever I can get!
Trailerable."
Thanks for your response, Susan.
Jeff
<futabachan@y...> wrote:
> > Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and amThanks Susan,
> > researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
>
> Well, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
> in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
> decent performance out of it....
>
> -- Sue --
> (every problem looks like a nail, right?)
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
From my quick search of what the Insolent 60 is I don't think it
will work, if it is not a cruising sail boat . Am I wronge? Got any
pics/drawings links?.
I'd love to learn how to sail but there just aint much of it here in
AZ to learn-by-doing on a regular basis. Once in Washington,
now that's one of my goals. I'd prefer using the wind and stars
but I want to get on the water ASAP here and then there with my
family and friends.
Also, I'd like more comfort and protection while under way for me,
my crew and passengers than the sail boats I've seen can give,
save for maybe the PCB Fast Motorsailer.
Here is some more info from another reply I gave in case you
didn't read it...
> Speed requirement?"Thanks for asking...
Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
design can be. ; )
I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
what-ever I can get!
Trailerable."
Thanks for your response, Susan.
Jeff
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart"
<pvanderw@o...> wrote:
Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
design can be. ; )
I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
what-ever I can get!
Trailerable.
Thanks again,
Jeff
<pvanderw@o...> wrote:
> > For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs wouldyou
> > consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up theThanks for asking...
> > coast?
>
> Speed requirement?
Speed is less important to me than the ability to safely handle
rougher than normal seas while keeping the occupants
relatively/reasonably comfortable. Also, fuel economy and
distance between fill-ups is more important than speed. I 'd like
to think of her as kind of a 'worlds strongest woman' vessel; not
the fastest but very fit. Alright, sexy too, as much as a Bolger
design can be. ; )
I want some 6 people of various age and size to be warm if it's
cold and dry if it rains with a great view of the scenery while
under way (come rain or shine). Naturally a head is in order and
some sort of galley. Sleeping arrangements? I'd be really
blessed to think I could sleep six in any boat I could afford. Thus,
what-ever I can get!
Trailerable.
Thanks again,
Jeff
> Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and amWell, the Insolent 60 was originally dreamt up for a builder
> researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
in Seattle. And it has a motor, too, and should get quite
decent performance out of it....
-- Sue --
(every problem looks like a nail, right?)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would youSpeed requirement?
> consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
> coast?
Hi all,
... from Phoenix, AZ! Man is it HOT, and HUMID now that the
monsoon season is here. Thus I long more than ever for a
move back to Washington.
Back in 1999 I bought Idaho plans from Jerry at Common Sense
Boats. Didn't build it. Most recently I bought Shanteuse plans
from Jim Michalak. Not built yet either. Both plans were my
desire to get me and my family of six on the waters here in
Arizona. The Idaho for lakes Mead, Powell, the non-whitewater
lengths of the Colorado River, etc. during the cool months. The
Shanteuse for our smaller alpine lakes in the other 9 months of
summer.
Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would you
consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
coast? Not out on the ocean blue but seaworthy enough to
handle weather upsets in the Puget Sound area.
lengthened Micro Trawler?
Idaho?
Tennessee?
Duckworks version of Tennessee?
Watervan?
Champlain?
Topaz?
Thanks for your thoughts (before I bother Mr. Bolger for his),
Jeff West
It's a dry heat.
... from Phoenix, AZ! Man is it HOT, and HUMID now that the
monsoon season is here. Thus I long more than ever for a
move back to Washington.
Back in 1999 I bought Idaho plans from Jerry at Common Sense
Boats. Didn't build it. Most recently I bought Shanteuse plans
from Jim Michalak. Not built yet either. Both plans were my
desire to get me and my family of six on the waters here in
Arizona. The Idaho for lakes Mead, Powell, the non-whitewater
lengths of the Colorado River, etc. during the cool months. The
Shanteuse for our smaller alpine lakes in the other 9 months of
summer.
Now I am hoping to relocate to the Puget Sound area and am
researching Bolger designs compatible for those waters.
For some 6 or so passengers, what powered designs would you
consider for mostly day cruises with some longer runs up the
coast? Not out on the ocean blue but seaworthy enough to
handle weather upsets in the Puget Sound area.
lengthened Micro Trawler?
Idaho?
Tennessee?
Duckworks version of Tennessee?
Watervan?
Champlain?
Topaz?
Thanks for your thoughts (before I bother Mr. Bolger for his),
Jeff West
It's a dry heat.