Re: Japanese beach cruiser (JBC)
location &
Cartopper...with rope hung leeboards.
I like the "Someone built one?" comment. I'd like to see pictures
too.
Reed
> geometry of the leeboards is somewhat loosey-goosey. It's easy toI raced one of PCB's Pirate Racers and it pointed as well as a
> believe of PCB's rope-hung boards.
>
> Perhaps the leeboards should be hung in different manner.
>
> Peter
Cartopper...with rope hung leeboards.
I like the "Someone built one?" comment. I'd like to see pictures
too.
Reed
Also is there any discriptions of Michalak's mounts in his on line stuff.
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0615/index.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0615/index.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Whoa! Holy cow. Stop for a moment. I appreciate all the comments about leeboard
design and etc., but there's a bigger issue here.
Over the past several years the JBC has come up periodically on this forum, and the
general consensus was that no one knew if the boat had EVER been built by anyone
anywhere. Now we know that it is.
Pictures! I must have pictures! And try to get the owner on-line to tell us more about
the boat.
Steve Paskey
design and etc., but there's a bigger issue here.
Over the past several years the JBC has come up periodically on this forum, and the
general consensus was that no one knew if the boat had EVER been built by anyone
anywhere. Now we know that it is.
Pictures! I must have pictures! And try to get the owner on-line to tell us more about
the boat.
Steve Paskey
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Richard Johnson <rishar_johnson2001@y...> wrote:
> I recently saw a JBC and spoke briefly to the owner
> who indicated the boat was not as weatherly as he
> would like.
Sue
Is the WDJ still a rope mount??
Also is there any discriptions of Michalak's mounts in his on line stuff.
HJ
Both PCB and Michalak have better attachments than the simple
Flemish rope that PCB used to favor. One of the things that
impressed me about the WDJ video was the precision that the
leeboard system on the WDJ affords in setting the leeboard angle
to balance the boat correctly. A similar system might improve
the JBC considerably.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
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Is the WDJ still a rope mount??
Also is there any discriptions of Michalak's mounts in his on line stuff.
HJ
Both PCB and Michalak have better attachments than the simple
Flemish rope that PCB used to favor. One of the things that
impressed me about the WDJ video was the precision that the
leeboard system on the WDJ affords in setting the leeboard angle
to balance the boat correctly. A similar system might improve
the JBC considerably.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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>I recently saw a JBC and spoke briefly to the ownerI'm not sure what this means. Some comments:
>who indicated the boat was not as weatherly as he
>would like. His comment was that in going to windward
>with leeboards "...you go where ever the leeboards
>decide to take you."
>
>Anyone else out there with this design? What is your
>experience when sailing to windward?
>
>I thought perhaps the problem may be with the loose
>footed main. Maybe a boom on the main with a rope
>traveller for the main sheet might improve the ability
>to point into the wind? Comments?
All things being equal, short & widish boats usually don't point as
well as longer boats for any number of reasons, one of which is that
your top speed is limited, second of which is they tend to have a
narrow groove, third they're light and easily knocked about by chop,
etc., etc.
My recollection is JBC is about 13 ft with a fair amount of rocker.
The JBC may be very sensitive to crew weight (eq, trim) and if he's
sitting in the back the bow is out of the water and the boat is less
weatherly (common problem with Optimist prams in the hands of
beginners).
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
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Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
---
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
never seen any leeboard that was loose at the top anywhere above a
broad reach. Water pressure against the board makes that rope loop as
tight as a bar. If it is loose at all, then it's coming off!!!! :-) I
could see that problem running, but the fellow in question
specifically mentioned windward sailing. That's what made me think
there was an alignment problem, but certainly bad trim could cause it.
Cheers/The Fader
> Not necessarily -- the leeboard could be trimmed incorrectly,Good point about trim, Susan, but as for looseness at the top... I've
> which would throw off the boat's CLR. A lack of weatherliness
> could indicate a need to let the leeboard down and forward a
> little farther. And even the most precisely built leeboard guard
> won't keep the boat from being wayward if the leeboard is loosely
> attached up top.
>
never seen any leeboard that was loose at the top anywhere above a
broad reach. Water pressure against the board makes that rope loop as
tight as a bar. If it is loose at all, then it's coming off!!!! :-) I
could see that problem running, but the fellow in question
specifically mentioned windward sailing. That's what made me think
there was an alignment problem, but certainly bad trim could cause it.
Cheers/The Fader
When I first launched my Frolic2, I couldn't get it to head up to the wind
for anything. Reaching was the best I could do and the balance was really
bad. Turns out I had the lee board mounted 4 inches aft of where it was
supposed to be located. This put it out of alignment with the sail and
because the boat started tapering, it had a toe-out alignment with the
centerline.
It was the classic plan backwards problem. I mounted it 2 inches aft the
center bulkhead instead of 2 inches if front.
Once I redrilled and remounted the lee board mountings, most of the handling
problems went away.
4 inches in not a lot but it turned out to be critical to the Frolic2.
Jeff
for anything. Reaching was the best I could do and the balance was really
bad. Turns out I had the lee board mounted 4 inches aft of where it was
supposed to be located. This put it out of alignment with the sail and
because the boat started tapering, it had a toe-out alignment with the
centerline.
It was the classic plan backwards problem. I mounted it 2 inches aft the
center bulkhead instead of 2 inches if front.
Once I redrilled and remounted the lee board mountings, most of the handling
problems went away.
4 inches in not a lot but it turned out to be critical to the Frolic2.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:38 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Japanese beach cruiser (JBC)
> > I've gotta say, if the leeboard is wat's really giving this fellow
> > trouble, then he has an inaccuracy of some sort built into the boat.
> > Hey, these things work as they are supossed to if they are built
> > right. No correctly built leeboard is going to take you where *it*
> > wants to go.
> I've gotta say, if the leeboard is wat's really giving this fellowNot necessarily -- the leeboard could be trimmed incorrectly,
> trouble, then he has an inaccuracy of some sort built into the boat.
> Hey, these things work as they are supossed to if they are built
> right. No correctly built leeboard is going to take you where *it*
> wants to go.
which would throw off the boat's CLR. A lack of weatherliness
could indicate a need to let the leeboard down and forward a
little farther. And even the most precisely built leeboard guard
won't keep the boat from being wayward if the leeboard is loosely
attached up top.
Both PCB and Michalak have better attachments than the simple
Flemish rope that PCB used to favor. One of the things that
impressed me about the WDJ video was the precision that the
leeboard system on the WDJ affords in setting the leeboard angle
to balance the boat correctly. A similar system might improve
the JBC considerably.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
But (notwithstanding Chuck's very true statement) even with PCB's most
loosey-goosey mounting, the rope sling, the attitude of the leeboard
is determined by the angle (relative to the longitudinal axis) of the
leeboard guard against the hull. If that is straight, and the surface
of the leeboard where it hits that guard is true, then water pressure
will keep the leeboard behiving correctly.
I've gotta say, if the leeboard is wat's really giving this fellow
trouble, then he has an inaccuracy of some sort built into the boat.
Hey, these things work as they are supossed to if they are built
right. No correctly built leeboard is going to take you where *it*
wants to go.
Cheers/The Fader
loosey-goosey mounting, the rope sling, the attitude of the leeboard
is determined by the angle (relative to the longitudinal axis) of the
leeboard guard against the hull. If that is straight, and the surface
of the leeboard where it hits that guard is true, then water pressure
will keep the leeboard behiving correctly.
I've gotta say, if the leeboard is wat's really giving this fellow
trouble, then he has an inaccuracy of some sort built into the boat.
Hey, these things work as they are supossed to if they are built
right. No correctly built leeboard is going to take you where *it*
wants to go.
Cheers/The Fader
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
> I hope I don't sound like a broken record, but Jim Michalak's
leeboards are precise and efficient. They can be adapted to almost
any Bolger boat, and that would not be inappropriate since Jim is a
disciple of PCB.
>
> Chuck
> > "...you go where ever the leeboards
> > decide to take you."
>
> I don't doubt that "straight ahead" is defined by the plane of the
> leeboards, so I interpret this as meaning that the location &
> geometry of the leeboards is somewhat loosey-goosey. It's easy to
> believe of PCB's rope-hung boards.
>
> Perhaps the leeboards should be hung in different manner.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I hope I don't sound like a broken record, but Jim Michalak's leeboards are precise and efficient. They can be adapted to almost any Bolger boat, and that would not be inappropriate since Jim is a disciple of PCB.
Chuck
leeboards, so I interpret this as meaning that the location &
geometry of the leeboards is somewhat loosey-goosey. It's easy to
believe of PCB's rope-hung boards.
Perhaps the leeboards should be hung in different manner.
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chuck
> "...you go where ever the leeboardsI don't doubt that "straight ahead" is defined by the plane of the
> decide to take you."
leeboards, so I interpret this as meaning that the location &
geometry of the leeboards is somewhat loosey-goosey. It's easy to
believe of PCB's rope-hung boards.
Perhaps the leeboards should be hung in different manner.
Peter
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "...you go where ever the leeboardsI don't doubt that "straight ahead" is defined by the plane of the
> decide to take you."
leeboards, so I interpret this as meaning that the location &
geometry of the leeboards is somewhat loosey-goosey. It's easy to
believe of PCB's rope-hung boards.
Perhaps the leeboards should be hung in different manner.
Peter
I recently saw a JBC and spoke briefly to the owner
who indicated the boat was not as weatherly as he
would like. His comment was that in going to windward
with leeboards "...you go where ever the leeboards
decide to take you."
Anyone else out there with this design? What is your
experience when sailing to windward?
I thought perhaps the problem may be with the loose
footed main. Maybe a boom on the main with a rope
traveller for the main sheet might improve the ability
to point into the wind? Comments?
Richard Johnson
Riverview, NB
Canada
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who indicated the boat was not as weatherly as he
would like. His comment was that in going to windward
with leeboards "...you go where ever the leeboards
decide to take you."
Anyone else out there with this design? What is your
experience when sailing to windward?
I thought perhaps the problem may be with the loose
footed main. Maybe a boom on the main with a rope
traveller for the main sheet might improve the ability
to point into the wind? Comments?
Richard Johnson
Riverview, NB
Canada
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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