Re: High Build Primer?
> > PCB, Monhegan. Wow,--- Peter Lenihan wrote:
> She sure is a pretty boatI would be happy making a
> but then you wouldn't be
> able to sail her
> up onto a beach ...
> your MICRO-NAVIGATOR?
Monhegan, just to have her
around to admire for her
beautiful curves!
The finish is in sight for
my Micro Navigator, yesterday
I cut and fit the last Lexan
windows, the two side windows
are already screwed on with
a bead of sealant. In the
next few days, I will drill,
seal, and screw on the
remaining four windows.
The 1/16" Lexan is slightly
disappointing because it is
flexible, oil-canning a bit.
Still, I built a small camber
into the window frames which
controls flex somewhat. Not that
the 1/16" doesn't seem strong enough...
I tested a 1/4" x 1/16" x 36"
piece for strength, and found that
I could not pull it apart with
my bare hands, nor flex it so
that it would break. Strong
stuff!
Next task after windows will
be the installation of the
roof and roof sliding hatch.
After that, the remaining big tasks are:
Mounting the lead ballast and the
keel/fin, running rigging, sails and
gaff/battens, cabin electrical, some
cabin trim work and the cabin upholstry.
Then, the launch!
Probaly could sub the light 3M bubbles for 410, I have used them, and
they seem to hang back a little on the recoat, but it just means a
tiny bit more sanding on the ridges..
they seem to hang back a little on the recoat, but it just means a
tiny bit more sanding on the ridges..
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
it's water "based".
If a thick paint won't cover, which it won't over stuff like tape and
so forth, then I trowel 410 on with a notched squeegee. I don't care
so much which epoxy, but 410 is worth the high price. Longboard down
the rows so they are globaly fair, apply more 410 with a flat
squeegee, you can rapidly build and fair 1/8" this way, even without
power tools, though I have every sander made. It is also a fab
system for repairing when all you have is something defining the
shape, though that surface is shot, or as a method of beefing up a
thin skin.
wrote:
> Bolgerados,Interlux epoxy primer is really good, forget the number. I think
> With the glassing all but done on my WINDERMERE
> bott...ah...underneath the hull part,I'm curious to know if any of
> you have used or can recommend a high build-up primer or barrier
> coat.One that sands well would be great too!
>
> Sincerely,
> Epoxy Pete Lenihan
it's water "based".
If a thick paint won't cover, which it won't over stuff like tape and
so forth, then I trowel 410 on with a notched squeegee. I don't care
so much which epoxy, but 410 is worth the high price. Longboard down
the rows so they are globaly fair, apply more 410 with a flat
squeegee, you can rapidly build and fair 1/8" this way, even without
power tools, though I have every sander made. It is also a fab
system for repairing when all you have is something defining the
shape, though that surface is shot, or as a method of beefing up a
thin skin.
Peter,
You're so kind. Please accept my apologies, I wasn't directing my
lecture at you. You have a track record of lovely finished boats. You
need no input from me. My intent was to those who hadn't though through
the process.
Rick
Peter Lenihan wrote:
You're so kind. Please accept my apologies, I wasn't directing my
lecture at you. You have a track record of lovely finished boats. You
need no input from me. My intent was to those who hadn't though through
the process.
Rick
Peter Lenihan wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, sctree <sctree@d...> wrote:
> > For the record, smooth and fair are two different things.
> >
>
> Rick,
> Thanks for confirming what I already suspected w
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <brucehallman@y...>
wrote:
She sure is a pretty boat but then you wouldn't be able to sail her
up onto a beach and go exploring the way you can with your TEAL,she
cannot be cartopped and she would have to be finished beautifully to
show off her incredible lines. Besides,what about your MICRO-
NAVIGATOR? A whole bunch of us are waiting to see her get wet!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
wrote:
> Latest dream, lookingBruce,
> again at _Small Boats_
> the 18 ft Friendship
> Sloop, 'modernized' by
> PCB, Monhegan. Wow, that
> is a pretty boat!
She sure is a pretty boat but then you wouldn't be able to sail her
up onto a beach and go exploring the way you can with your TEAL,she
cannot be cartopped and she would have to be finished beautifully to
show off her incredible lines. Besides,what about your MICRO-
NAVIGATOR? A whole bunch of us are waiting to see her get wet!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Rick <sctree@d...> wrote:
Though if Bolger Plywood
boxes have a negative
resale value, it might
be a good thing that I
have attention deficit,
and work quick and dirty.
Latest dream, looking
again at _Small Boats_
the 18 ft Friendship
Sloop, 'modernized' by
PCB, Monhegan. Wow, that
is a pretty boat!
> Peter,That would be me!
> I wasn't directing my
> lecture at you.
> My intent was to those who
> hadn't though through
> the process.
Though if Bolger Plywood
boxes have a negative
resale value, it might
be a good thing that I
have attention deficit,
and work quick and dirty.
Latest dream, looking
again at _Small Boats_
the 18 ft Friendship
Sloop, 'modernized' by
PCB, Monhegan. Wow, that
is a pretty boat!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, sctree <sctree@d...> wrote:
Thanks for confirming what I already suspected would be the proper
procedure.Living in the land of the 4 month boating season can some
times feel like working in a vacume.For others,it is an excellent
brief on how to get from A to B in the game of"finishing".Love it!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> For the record, smooth and fair are two different things.Rick,
>
Thanks for confirming what I already suspected would be the proper
procedure.Living in the land of the 4 month boating season can some
times feel like working in a vacume.For others,it is an excellent
brief on how to get from A to B in the game of"finishing".Love it!!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <brucehallman@y...>
wrote:
Pesky Crew gave me the Porter-Cable random orbital sander model
number 333. This tool just does not die! I've gone as long as 4
straight,non-stop,hours with this tool and it just humms right
along.The other thing I should add is the paper I use,it is
Siafast"Blue Line" 40 grit. Again,this paper with that machine is a
match made in heaven! No matter whether I am sanding thickened
epoxy,glass cloth with laminating epoxy resin or just bare mahogany
it powers right through it all without whinning about it(the sander)
or clogging up and losing all its grit(the paper).
My previous sanders were a Black and Decker R/O and a Sears
model.In retrospect,these were "tools for tots" and would have either
conked out weeks ago or I would be nowhere near where I am now with
my final sanding.
I suspect that any good quality,almost professional grade
sander,can take the beating so long as you've got the right paper and
not something better suited for scaping caluses off the soles of ones
feet.
It pays to spend for a good tool:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who can count on 5 fingers all his electric power tools
and feels mighty good about them all,from along the shores of the
St.Lawrence..........
wrote:
> > After buying the incredible BoschBruce,
> jigsaw, based on advice from here,
> I am now looking for an 'incredible'
> sander...tell me more!
Pesky Crew gave me the Porter-Cable random orbital sander model
number 333. This tool just does not die! I've gone as long as 4
straight,non-stop,hours with this tool and it just humms right
along.The other thing I should add is the paper I use,it is
Siafast"Blue Line" 40 grit. Again,this paper with that machine is a
match made in heaven! No matter whether I am sanding thickened
epoxy,glass cloth with laminating epoxy resin or just bare mahogany
it powers right through it all without whinning about it(the sander)
or clogging up and losing all its grit(the paper).
My previous sanders were a Black and Decker R/O and a Sears
model.In retrospect,these were "tools for tots" and would have either
conked out weeks ago or I would be nowhere near where I am now with
my final sanding.
I suspect that any good quality,almost professional grade
sander,can take the beating so long as you've got the right paper and
not something better suited for scaping caluses off the soles of ones
feet.
It pays to spend for a good tool:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who can count on 5 fingers all his electric power tools
and feels mighty good about them all,from along the shores of the
St.Lawrence..........
I love my Porter Cable 7336 random orbit with a vacuum dust collector
pad connected to the shop vac.
Rick
Bruce Hallman wrote:
pad connected to the shop vac.
Rick
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> --- "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@b...> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > such an incredible sander
>
> After buying the incredible Bosch
> jigsaw, based on advice from here,
> I am now looking for an 'incredible'
> sander...tell me more!
>
>
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>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
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> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
For the record, smooth and fair are two different things.
Fairing is getting the high spots down and the low spots filled. Not
much need of a sander for that. Grinder and scraper for the drips, runs
and piles of excess. Add filler with a wide blade to raise the low
spots. A longboard with course paper to level it all out. No real reason
to go finer than 60 grit. The little scratches don't count at this
point, you are not looking for smooth, just fair. Using a power sander
will not achieve fair -unless you posses superskills--- In fact a power
sander will usually lead you to dig depressions, creating less fair. You
must have a hard yet flexible enough to conform to hull curves
longboard that is long enough to be capable of bridging any lowspots...
And a filler that will build up the lows, yet easily sand back to level.
Typically the "add filler to the lows/longboard until flush" routine
needs several goes.
Once fair, then comes the smoothing. If you have a fair surface then
smoothing is the easy part so again, not much of a sander is needed. A
well rolled out coat of high build primer followed with light sanding
(careful, don't want to create low spots again!...) will fill in the 60
grit scratches and sand smooth as glass with light sanding using fine
grit after it fully cures... This is where a good primer is very
helpful. The two part epoxy types help protect the filler used in the
fairing stage.....
Now for the topcoat...........
Now don't get me wrong, I never put that much effort into my personal
boats, so they don't come anywhere near what's demanded on boats I've
worked on. Also I've seen in the photos of Peter's Micro and some of
you others that work to very high standards,... some very nice work.......
From a guy who has many hours stroking other peoples boats with a
longboard........
Rick
Peter Lenihan wrote:
Fairing is getting the high spots down and the low spots filled. Not
much need of a sander for that. Grinder and scraper for the drips, runs
and piles of excess. Add filler with a wide blade to raise the low
spots. A longboard with course paper to level it all out. No real reason
to go finer than 60 grit. The little scratches don't count at this
point, you are not looking for smooth, just fair. Using a power sander
will not achieve fair -unless you posses superskills--- In fact a power
sander will usually lead you to dig depressions, creating less fair. You
must have a hard yet flexible enough to conform to hull curves
longboard that is long enough to be capable of bridging any lowspots...
And a filler that will build up the lows, yet easily sand back to level.
Typically the "add filler to the lows/longboard until flush" routine
needs several goes.
Once fair, then comes the smoothing. If you have a fair surface then
smoothing is the easy part so again, not much of a sander is needed. A
well rolled out coat of high build primer followed with light sanding
(careful, don't want to create low spots again!...) will fill in the 60
grit scratches and sand smooth as glass with light sanding using fine
grit after it fully cures... This is where a good primer is very
helpful. The two part epoxy types help protect the filler used in the
fairing stage.....
Now for the topcoat...........
Now don't get me wrong, I never put that much effort into my personal
boats, so they don't come anywhere near what's demanded on boats I've
worked on. Also I've seen in the photos of Peter's Micro and some of
you others that work to very high standards,... some very nice work.......
From a guy who has many hours stroking other peoples boats with a
longboard........
Rick
Peter Lenihan wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am aiming for a perfectly smooth and fair finish for the little
> fishies to admire while I cruise around and make a fool out of myself
> doing silly boat tricks.It will also serve as the perfect testing
> ground for my sanding/fairing skills
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Bag up the dust and sell it to messabouters for epoxy fill.
>Peter Lenihan wrote:snip
>
>I'm right on the verge of slipping into obsessiveness with
>all this sanding lately and it doesn't help having a Pesky Crew who
>is just as bad.She should never have given me such an incredible
>sander last Christmas..........it's all her fault!
>
>Sincerely,
>Peter Lenihan,soon to be the Sanding King of Montreal if winter
>doesn't get here soon...................
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________
>
--- "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@b...> wrote:
jigsaw, based on advice from here,
I am now looking for an 'incredible'
sander...tell me more!
> such an incredible sanderAfter buying the incredible Bosch
jigsaw, based on advice from here,
I am now looking for an 'incredible'
sander...tell me more!
> Wear a GOOD dust mask when sanding. According to my barber (whoquit using
> talcum), the cheap talc comes out of the same mineral deposits asasbestos,
> with the materials interleaved.This site has info on Canadian, asbestos free, talc for paints.
The technical info is interesting.
http://www.highwood-resources.com/cantal.html
Charles
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Lon Wells" <lononriver@y...> wrote:
I am aiming for a perfectly smooth and fair finish for the little
fishies to admire while I cruise around and make a fool out of myself
doing silly boat tricks.It will also serve as the perfect testing
ground for my sanding/fairing skills before I tackle the topsides
which will,of course,be very visible and must be absolutely
impeccable or else I will have learn't nothing from all the
building.I'm right on the verge of slipping into obsessiveness with
all this sanding lately and it doesn't help having a Pesky Crew who
is just as bad.She should never have given me such an incredible
sander last Christmas..........it's all her fault!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,soon to be the Sanding King of Montreal if winter
doesn't get here soon...................
> Since the primer has to be compatable with the top coat. A primeris
> suggestion can not be made before the top coat is known. Most
> sandable primer contain talcum powder. I have gone to the dollar
> store and bought cheap baby powder (read the label to make sure it
> talcum powder) and added that to my primer to make it sandable.The high build primer/barrier coat is going over a sanded 2:1 epoxy.
> Lon
>
I am aiming for a perfectly smooth and fair finish for the little
fishies to admire while I cruise around and make a fool out of myself
doing silly boat tricks.It will also serve as the perfect testing
ground for my sanding/fairing skills before I tackle the topsides
which will,of course,be very visible and must be absolutely
impeccable or else I will have learn't nothing from all the
building.I'm right on the verge of slipping into obsessiveness with
all this sanding lately and it doesn't help having a Pesky Crew who
is just as bad.She should never have given me such an incredible
sander last Christmas..........it's all her fault!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,soon to be the Sanding King of Montreal if winter
doesn't get here soon...................
Wear a GOOD dust mask when sanding. According to my barber (who quit using
talcum), the cheap talc comes out of the same mineral deposits as asbestos,
with the materials interleaved. Only the really expensive face talc is pure
talcum. If he's right, think of all the infants who started life with a big
step towards lung disease by their loving mother's diapering techniques.
On the other hand I still have a roll or two of asbestos tape for patching
mufflers and insulating stove pipes. It won't leap off the shelf and attack
you. It's just that if you fill the air with dust, your lungs might object
and some lawyer might get rich.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
talcum), the cheap talc comes out of the same mineral deposits as asbestos,
with the materials interleaved. Only the really expensive face talc is pure
talcum. If he's right, think of all the infants who started life with a big
step towards lung disease by their loving mother's diapering techniques.
On the other hand I still have a roll or two of asbestos tape for patching
mufflers and insulating stove pipes. It won't leap off the shelf and attack
you. It's just that if you fill the air with dust, your lungs might object
and some lawyer might get rich.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
>
> --- Lon Wells wrote:
> > talcum powder
>
> Sold by RAKA for $10 for 5 pounds.
>
> Another choice to consider, would
> be their microscopic glass bubbles,
> $30 for 5 gallons [5 lbs].
>
> I have added bubbles to epoxy, and
> find that the epoxy gets thick,
> like cream, yet still flows. The
> hardened epoxy sands easliy, though
> not as nice as the more expensive
> phenolic microspheres. $72 for 5 gallons.
>
> Hmmm, I wonder if they could be
> added to primer paint; I bet yes.
Because your are up to your armpits with toxic materials anyway, you
should consider stepping into the world of industrial coatings used by
the commercial boat repair yards in your area. These people want a no
nonsense workable product, (no cute boats on the label). There are some
great 2 part epoxy based high build sandable primers that even though
nasty to handle, give a superior barrier coat base over epoxied
glass/wood. Ten years ago out here one of the best was ProLine
(something like that). I used ProLine (4001?) on Reddy and have samples
coated on plywood both sitting on my roof (hot interior CA sun) and
submerged hanging off a dock in San Francisco Bay year round for ten
years that are still in excellent condition. ProLine has since been
bought by Sherwin Williams, so you should be able to get it from them.
Do a search on "Sherwin Williams marine industrial", also National
Paints Industries industrial coatings (I think they are Prokote now).
Their products and those like them are not advertised to the general
public, but you could find a source through the net or a trip to the
boatyard where a little noising around should reveal a few empty cans
with names.... Then track down the local distributor, act like a
professional and you'll get your stuff. I bet it's $40-$50 a gallon
now.... ($33 gal in '93).
Be sure to have a tyvek suit, gloves and respirator....
Rick
Peter Lenihan wrote:
should consider stepping into the world of industrial coatings used by
the commercial boat repair yards in your area. These people want a no
nonsense workable product, (no cute boats on the label). There are some
great 2 part epoxy based high build sandable primers that even though
nasty to handle, give a superior barrier coat base over epoxied
glass/wood. Ten years ago out here one of the best was ProLine
(something like that). I used ProLine (4001?) on Reddy and have samples
coated on plywood both sitting on my roof (hot interior CA sun) and
submerged hanging off a dock in San Francisco Bay year round for ten
years that are still in excellent condition. ProLine has since been
bought by Sherwin Williams, so you should be able to get it from them.
Do a search on "Sherwin Williams marine industrial", also National
Paints Industries industrial coatings (I think they are Prokote now).
Their products and those like them are not advertised to the general
public, but you could find a source through the net or a trip to the
boatyard where a little noising around should reveal a few empty cans
with names.... Then track down the local distributor, act like a
professional and you'll get your stuff. I bet it's $40-$50 a gallon
now.... ($33 gal in '93).
Be sure to have a tyvek suit, gloves and respirator....
Rick
Peter Lenihan wrote:
> Bolgerados,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> With the glassing all but done on my WINDERMERE
> bott...ah...underneath the hull part,I'm curious to know if any of
> you have used or can recommend a high build-up primer or barrier
> coat.One that sands well would be great too!
>
> Sincerely,
> Epoxy Pete Lenihan
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=259538.3760361.5018013.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065791:HM/A=1712983/R=0/SIG=11u38u3s2/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/hit?page=1374-105951838331032>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
--- Lon Wells wrote:
Another choice to consider, would
be their microscopic glass bubbles,
$30 for 5 gallons [5 lbs].
I have added bubbles to epoxy, and
find that the epoxy gets thick,
like cream, yet still flows. The
hardened epoxy sands easliy, though
not as nice as the more expensive
phenolic microspheres. $72 for 5 gallons.
Hmmm, I wonder if they could be
added to primer paint; I bet yes.
> talcum powderSold by RAKA for $10 for 5 pounds.
Another choice to consider, would
be their microscopic glass bubbles,
$30 for 5 gallons [5 lbs].
I have added bubbles to epoxy, and
find that the epoxy gets thick,
like cream, yet still flows. The
hardened epoxy sands easliy, though
not as nice as the more expensive
phenolic microspheres. $72 for 5 gallons.
Hmmm, I wonder if they could be
added to primer paint; I bet yes.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, sctree <sctree@d...> wrote:
being right there in a commercial yard! Also,it never occured to me
that some of the common names may well have industrial divisions
little known to the general public.
Not too worried about the toxic stuff,my all-out-doors-all-the-time
shop has excellent ventilation,I have hundreds of rubber gloves and
my epoxy coated boatwear should be up to the task of repelling any
primer drips.
Now for some internet surfing.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,excited like all get out over this appraoching final
step before roll-over!
> Because your are up to your armpits with toxic materials anyway,you
> should consider stepping into the world of industrial coatings usedby
> the commercial boat repair yards in your area>Thanks Rick! Now that is something I never thought of doing despite
> Be sure to have a tyvek suit, gloves and respirator....
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
being right there in a commercial yard! Also,it never occured to me
that some of the common names may well have industrial divisions
little known to the general public.
Not too worried about the toxic stuff,my all-out-doors-all-the-time
shop has excellent ventilation,I have hundreds of rubber gloves and
my epoxy coated boatwear should be up to the task of repelling any
primer drips.
Now for some internet surfing.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,excited like all get out over this appraoching final
step before roll-over!
Since the primer has to be compatable with the top coat. A primer
suggestion can not be made before the top coat is known. Most
sandable primer contain talcum powder. I have gone to the dollar
store and bought cheap baby powder (read the label to make sure it is
talcum powder) and added that to my primer to make it sandable.
Lon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
suggestion can not be made before the top coat is known. Most
sandable primer contain talcum powder. I have gone to the dollar
store and bought cheap baby powder (read the label to make sure it is
talcum powder) and added that to my primer to make it sandable.
Lon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <ellengaest@b...>
wrote:
> Bolgerados,
> With the glassing all but done on my WINDERMERE
> bott...ah...underneath the hull part,I'm curious to know if any of
> you have used or can recommend a high build-up primer or barrier
> coat.One that sands well would be great too!
>
> Sincerely,
> Epoxy Pete Lenihan
Bolgerados,
With the glassing all but done on my WINDERMERE
bott...ah...underneath the hull part,I'm curious to know if any of
you have used or can recommend a high build-up primer or barrier
coat.One that sands well would be great too!
Sincerely,
Epoxy Pete Lenihan
With the glassing all but done on my WINDERMERE
bott...ah...underneath the hull part,I'm curious to know if any of
you have used or can recommend a high build-up primer or barrier
coat.One that sands well would be great too!
Sincerely,
Epoxy Pete Lenihan