Re: Building a Rubens Nymph {long} and with apologies
Joe,
First, let me apologize for taking so long to 'answer'. A number of boat
launching and truck engine problems have eaten up my time.
"Free advice is worth what you pay for it"
With that in mind, here goes . . .
My first boatbuilding effort was a Rubens Nymph. For several reasons, I
kept a 'journal' of the entire project. [WARNING - boatbuilding is
infectious . . . I started building ANOTHER boat about 3/4 through this
FIRST project !!]. While the journal was a 'warts and all' description
of everything that happened, on a daily basis, I eventually submitted it
to Chuck as a proposed Article. Oddly enough, at the time there was a
lot of interest in Bolger's BEE {which was that 'second boat' I
mentioned ! }, so that was the article that was published first. Chuck
should still have the full text on Rubens Nymph in his files . . . with
all this renewed interest, perhaps it's time to publish it ? [Chuck, you
listening ??]
Anyway, that complete record is one of ACTUAL experience. I was on a
VERY TIGHT budget, plus I am a real 'pack-rat', on principle, I don't
like to waste ANYTHING, and I look on finding different ways to
accomplish my ends as a sign of achievement.
We all have our on 'definitions' . . ."a quality boat (meaning one that
will float
safely and last for many years)" . . . stored in a garage? outside, on
sawhorses? covered with a waterproof tarp? lying on the ground in the
backyard? on a mooring? In precision shooting there is a term called
'Minute of Angle'; in BIG game hunting it was para-phrased to "Minute of
Water Buffalo". You build looking at your final purpose and/or usage.
I tend to be a 'paranoid-belt-and-suspenders' type of builder and
sailor. Also a proponent of the KISS engineering principle. Plus, why do
it sloppy - when a touch more effort will make it a 'good' job. {Around
the house I almost invariably work with a level, even though Joanne is
usually saying, "Stop stalling; know one will know it but you - just put
the damn thing up !!" }. By the same token, it's hard to 'go backwards'.
Most of the effort that goes into ANY job is the 'prep work' and the
'finishing'. The actual BUILDING is typically the easiest, fastest, and
cheapest part of the job. With the Rubens Nymph the LOFTING took some
time because it required {for ME} meticulous concentration and final
fairing of the lines . . . and the fact I was making a TEMPLATE at the
same time !!. Once that was done, the actual cutting of the parts was
done in maybe a couple of hours. From 'cut out' to Joanne's, "Hey, it
really looks like a boat !!", was only the equivalent of a single day.
Some of the wood was 'scavenged' {I made the frames 1/2 inch, and the
transoms 3/4 inch}, the basic hull was 1/4 in 'waterproof' Luan, and the
3 gallon 'kit' of RAKA epoxy was less than $100. I used 6 oz F'glass,
but in hindsight, a fine Dacron or other material could have been used
because she was painted {except for the transoms & thwart}.
There has been some discussion about 'oilcanning' of the bottom When I
finished, I placed the hull between two sawhorses . . . about as far
apart as I could get them without slipping. I then stood in the middle
of the hull, with my feet together. That gave a 'point load' of
approximately 225 pounds/sq.ft. - more when I flexed my knees up & down.
It was like standing on a cement floor!!. Now THAT is a SECURE feeling
!! If I'm going to be out on any water over my head, or sell this to
anyone {as I did}, THAT is the kind of feeling I want.
Conclusions -
1 - 'Marine Grade' ply ? . . . your decision - more important for
'clearcoating' if you want the 'figure' of the wood to show. However, if
care is taken, structurally moot.
2 - Sheath ANYTHING . . . if for no other reason than increased abrasion
resistance
3 - Cloth ? . . . there are viable alternatives to Fiberglass . . . if
you don't need it to be 'invisible'
4 - Epoxy ? . . . buy MORE than you think you'll need. "It won't go bad
and you don't have to feed it". Stored under moderately stable & cool
conditions {like most basements} and it will last what will seem like
forever. You will probably be building more boats, plus it's like a
sailor, "Wonderful handy around the house".
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
- - - -
-Message: 5
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:47:21 -0000
From: "jsomera1972" <jsomera1972@...>
Subject: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
After much deliberation, I've decided that will build a Rubens nymph
as my first boat. As most of us, I'm on a limited budget, so I've
been trying to figure out ways to save money with this project, while
still ending up with a quality boat (meaning one that will float
safely and last for many years).
SNIP
¼" ACX ply. . . .various marine grade ply . . .occome, . . .would I
still have to
sheath it with fiberglass?
SNIP
My thoughts, . . .1) occume last longer . . . 2) save money not buy
fiberglass cloth , 3) save more money not buy as much epoxy.
SNIP
Joe
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
From: "bluto4566" <bluto4566@...>
Subject: Re: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
SNIP
several options . .between occume and ACX. Marinetech and Aquatech are
both more
affordable than occume . . .don't bend as easily as occume and will
increase the weight of your boat. One thing about I did not sheathed
either boat in glass cloth but did coat the boats inside and out with
epoxy and good primer and paint.
I have not built Rubens Nymph but if memory serves sheathing the hull
with glass is not required.
SNIP
Scott
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...>
Subject: Re: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
Joe:
You don't "have" to do a full fiberglass sheath on fir ply. . . .Douglas
Fir . . . For a knock around boat that you do not need to keep in a
pristine condition, it would be a good choice.
SNIP
a 20 year old home built . . .entirely of Doug Fir and had a bedsheet
for a sail. It really looked awful, but . . .more fun with it for less
money than 99% of all the boats ever made.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
From: "ibelucky2002" <daysatnight@...>
Subject: Re: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
I just built a regular sized nymph as my first boat and I only had about
$50 total in wood (1/4" exterior ply from Loew's), and that includes
gunnels, seat, etc. The fiberglass sheathing ended up costing around
$200 but I was wasteful during the learning process and used West system
which is expensive . . .
SNIP
spent a ton of time filling voids and knot holes and had one of the
frames crack . . .
SNIP
haven't seen plans for the rubens nymph but I understand that the only
real difference is the
bottom is wider than the original. I read on . . . they had oilcanning
problems using 1/4" ply
Doug
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:10:48 -0000
From: "rsmboatbuilder" <isdkelly@...>
Subject: Re: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
Having spent the last two weekends sanding fir ply with lots of
checks on my 17" console skiff. I would take a little more time and
glass it. I did epoxy coat the topsides but used no glass and this
has proven to be a mistake. I have heard folks mention that they
have used 2-6 oz cloth to glass the interiors like this and the
checking has not occured. If it were my money I might splurge a
little on the glass and epoxy regardless of ply choices. I have not
been blessed to have built any boats with all marine ply I always
seem to have at least one sheet of Home Depots finest in there (Most
of my boats are all Home Depot wood actually).
First, let me apologize for taking so long to 'answer'. A number of boat
launching and truck engine problems have eaten up my time.
"Free advice is worth what you pay for it"
With that in mind, here goes . . .
My first boatbuilding effort was a Rubens Nymph. For several reasons, I
kept a 'journal' of the entire project. [WARNING - boatbuilding is
infectious . . . I started building ANOTHER boat about 3/4 through this
FIRST project !!]. While the journal was a 'warts and all' description
of everything that happened, on a daily basis, I eventually submitted it
to Chuck as a proposed Article. Oddly enough, at the time there was a
lot of interest in Bolger's BEE {which was that 'second boat' I
mentioned ! }, so that was the article that was published first. Chuck
should still have the full text on Rubens Nymph in his files . . . with
all this renewed interest, perhaps it's time to publish it ? [Chuck, you
listening ??]
Anyway, that complete record is one of ACTUAL experience. I was on a
VERY TIGHT budget, plus I am a real 'pack-rat', on principle, I don't
like to waste ANYTHING, and I look on finding different ways to
accomplish my ends as a sign of achievement.
We all have our on 'definitions' . . ."a quality boat (meaning one that
will float
safely and last for many years)" . . . stored in a garage? outside, on
sawhorses? covered with a waterproof tarp? lying on the ground in the
backyard? on a mooring? In precision shooting there is a term called
'Minute of Angle'; in BIG game hunting it was para-phrased to "Minute of
Water Buffalo". You build looking at your final purpose and/or usage.
I tend to be a 'paranoid-belt-and-suspenders' type of builder and
sailor. Also a proponent of the KISS engineering principle. Plus, why do
it sloppy - when a touch more effort will make it a 'good' job. {Around
the house I almost invariably work with a level, even though Joanne is
usually saying, "Stop stalling; know one will know it but you - just put
the damn thing up !!" }. By the same token, it's hard to 'go backwards'.
Most of the effort that goes into ANY job is the 'prep work' and the
'finishing'. The actual BUILDING is typically the easiest, fastest, and
cheapest part of the job. With the Rubens Nymph the LOFTING took some
time because it required {for ME} meticulous concentration and final
fairing of the lines . . . and the fact I was making a TEMPLATE at the
same time !!. Once that was done, the actual cutting of the parts was
done in maybe a couple of hours. From 'cut out' to Joanne's, "Hey, it
really looks like a boat !!", was only the equivalent of a single day.
Some of the wood was 'scavenged' {I made the frames 1/2 inch, and the
transoms 3/4 inch}, the basic hull was 1/4 in 'waterproof' Luan, and the
3 gallon 'kit' of RAKA epoxy was less than $100. I used 6 oz F'glass,
but in hindsight, a fine Dacron or other material could have been used
because she was painted {except for the transoms & thwart}.
There has been some discussion about 'oilcanning' of the bottom When I
finished, I placed the hull between two sawhorses . . . about as far
apart as I could get them without slipping. I then stood in the middle
of the hull, with my feet together. That gave a 'point load' of
approximately 225 pounds/sq.ft. - more when I flexed my knees up & down.
It was like standing on a cement floor!!. Now THAT is a SECURE feeling
!! If I'm going to be out on any water over my head, or sell this to
anyone {as I did}, THAT is the kind of feeling I want.
Conclusions -
1 - 'Marine Grade' ply ? . . . your decision - more important for
'clearcoating' if you want the 'figure' of the wood to show. However, if
care is taken, structurally moot.
2 - Sheath ANYTHING . . . if for no other reason than increased abrasion
resistance
3 - Cloth ? . . . there are viable alternatives to Fiberglass . . . if
you don't need it to be 'invisible'
4 - Epoxy ? . . . buy MORE than you think you'll need. "It won't go bad
and you don't have to feed it". Stored under moderately stable & cool
conditions {like most basements} and it will last what will seem like
forever. You will probably be building more boats, plus it's like a
sailor, "Wonderful handy around the house".
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
- - - -
-Message: 5
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:47:21 -0000
From: "jsomera1972" <jsomera1972@...>
Subject: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
After much deliberation, I've decided that will build a Rubens nymph
as my first boat. As most of us, I'm on a limited budget, so I've
been trying to figure out ways to save money with this project, while
still ending up with a quality boat (meaning one that will float
safely and last for many years).
SNIP
¼" ACX ply. . . .various marine grade ply . . .occome, . . .would I
still have to
sheath it with fiberglass?
SNIP
My thoughts, . . .1) occume last longer . . . 2) save money not buy
fiberglass cloth , 3) save more money not buy as much epoxy.
SNIP
Joe
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
From: "bluto4566" <bluto4566@...>
Subject: Re: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
SNIP
several options . .between occume and ACX. Marinetech and Aquatech are
both more
affordable than occume . . .don't bend as easily as occume and will
increase the weight of your boat. One thing about I did not sheathed
either boat in glass cloth but did coat the boats inside and out with
epoxy and good primer and paint.
I have not built Rubens Nymph but if memory serves sheathing the hull
with glass is not required.
SNIP
Scott
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@...>
Subject: Re: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
Joe:
You don't "have" to do a full fiberglass sheath on fir ply. . . .Douglas
Fir . . . For a knock around boat that you do not need to keep in a
pristine condition, it would be a good choice.
SNIP
a 20 year old home built . . .entirely of Doug Fir and had a bedsheet
for a sail. It really looked awful, but . . .more fun with it for less
money than 99% of all the boats ever made.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
From: "ibelucky2002" <daysatnight@...>
Subject: Re: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
I just built a regular sized nymph as my first boat and I only had about
$50 total in wood (1/4" exterior ply from Loew's), and that includes
gunnels, seat, etc. The fiberglass sheathing ended up costing around
$200 but I was wasteful during the learning process and used West system
which is expensive . . .
SNIP
spent a ton of time filling voids and knot holes and had one of the
frames crack . . .
SNIP
haven't seen plans for the rubens nymph but I understand that the only
real difference is the
bottom is wider than the original. I read on . . . they had oilcanning
problems using 1/4" ply
Doug
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:10:48 -0000
From: "rsmboatbuilder" <isdkelly@...>
Subject: Re: Wood for Rubens Nymph-a budget issue
Having spent the last two weekends sanding fir ply with lots of
checks on my 17" console skiff. I would take a little more time and
glass it. I did epoxy coat the topsides but used no glass and this
has proven to be a mistake. I have heard folks mention that they
have used 2-6 oz cloth to glass the interiors like this and the
checking has not occured. If it were my money I might splurge a
little on the glass and epoxy regardless of ply choices. I have not
been blessed to have built any boats with all marine ply I always
seem to have at least one sheet of Home Depots finest in there (Most
of my boats are all Home Depot wood actually).