Re: [bolger] Re: attaching rubrails
--- Nels <arvent@...> wrote:
safety on minimum boat for a global
circum-navigation, and to that end she
is quite clever; while my intended use
leans more towards bobbing around as a
swimming/camping platform in warm water
California summer lakes.
I won't use the rub rail toeholds in
the Straits of Magellan. <grin>
Or, the Golden Gate, etc., etc..
> > > slipping and fallingThe Navigator was designed for maximum
> quote:
> "And you never leave the safety
> of at least hip-deep
safety on minimum boat for a global
circum-navigation, and to that end she
is quite clever; while my intended use
leans more towards bobbing around as a
swimming/camping platform in warm water
California summer lakes.
I won't use the rub rail toeholds in
the Straits of Magellan. <grin>
Or, the Golden Gate, etc., etc..
The toehold is a nice idea, but I'm building the standard Micro, not the
navigator, so I figure I'll just scramble across the foreward deck, roof,
cabin top or whatever you call it, to get from the bow well aft... but one
of my main reasons for asking about the grain was my pondering of using,
say, 3/4" as the wider rail (rather than the 1/2" specified), bonded
directly to the hull to provide stiffening as well as a bumper, and then the
second one as specified in the plans would be glued on with 5200 or
something. I've recently come into some free scraps of Brazilian Ipe or
ironwood, and it's marvelous stuff - like very dark teak, only harder. I
thought I might bite the bullet and go buy a 16' length of it, and rip two
strips to put on in lieu of brass - it's nearly as tough! I think a 1/2"x
3/4" strip would take the bend just fine, and any tendency to flatten the
hull sides would be compensated for by the first strip (mostly likely
decking mahogany) beneath it providing stiffness. Brass sure would be pretty
though.....
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 10:19 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: attaching rubrails
--- Nels wrote:
in the shop, that at times I wanted
to quickly move from the afterdeck to
the foredeck, without climbing down,
over or through the cabin.
I added another 1 1/2" along the top
of the rubrail, for a total of 3"
toehold depth. This is not strictly
'per plans', but in my opinion, it
is n improvement on the PB&F design
because you can quickly scoot along
the length of the boat, around the
cabin. [I also added grab rails along
the boat, which is not strictly 'per
plans' either.]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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navigator, so I figure I'll just scramble across the foreward deck, roof,
cabin top or whatever you call it, to get from the bow well aft... but one
of my main reasons for asking about the grain was my pondering of using,
say, 3/4" as the wider rail (rather than the 1/2" specified), bonded
directly to the hull to provide stiffening as well as a bumper, and then the
second one as specified in the plans would be glued on with 5200 or
something. I've recently come into some free scraps of Brazilian Ipe or
ironwood, and it's marvelous stuff - like very dark teak, only harder. I
thought I might bite the bullet and go buy a 16' length of it, and rip two
strips to put on in lieu of brass - it's nearly as tough! I think a 1/2"x
3/4" strip would take the bend just fine, and any tendency to flatten the
hull sides would be compensated for by the first strip (mostly likely
decking mahogany) beneath it providing stiffness. Brass sure would be pretty
though.....
Paul Lefebvre
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 10:19 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: attaching rubrails
--- Nels wrote:
> as well as seving as a toehold.I found that on my Micro Navigator,
in the shop, that at times I wanted
to quickly move from the afterdeck to
the foredeck, without climbing down,
over or through the cabin.
I added another 1 1/2" along the top
of the rubrail, for a total of 3"
toehold depth. This is not strictly
'per plans', but in my opinion, it
is n improvement on the PB&F design
because you can quickly scoot along
the length of the boat, around the
cabin. [I also added grab rails along
the boat, which is not strictly 'per
plans' either.]
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
recent designs, including the Navigator conversion from which I can
quote:
"And you never leave the safety of at least hip-deep structure around
you to either deal with ground tackle from the forward hatch or
fussing with the outboard sitting on the short afterdeck over the
tiller and the WC supported by two stout transom-bolted corner posts
supporting two lifeline cables running from the house aft, across
and forward again to the house." (Whew! Pause for a deep breath after
reading that out loud:-)
The word "never" does seem quite clear to me. However I still think
what you did is a good idea for the reason given previously.
PCB&F seem to indicate that a person either stay inboard and enclosed
or have a full lifeline system in place.
Nels
> --- Nels wrote:My observations are based on reading several articles of the more
> > Perhaps PB&F might view this as a bit unsafe
> > slipping and falling
recent designs, including the Navigator conversion from which I can
quote:
"And you never leave the safety of at least hip-deep structure around
you to either deal with ground tackle from the forward hatch or
fussing with the outboard sitting on the short afterdeck over the
tiller and the WC supported by two stout transom-bolted corner posts
supporting two lifeline cables running from the house aft, across
and forward again to the house." (Whew! Pause for a deep breath after
reading that out loud:-)
The word "never" does seem quite clear to me. However I still think
what you did is a good idea for the reason given previously.
PCB&F seem to indicate that a person either stay inboard and enclosed
or have a full lifeline system in place.
Nels
>
> I will ask him...
> It is not very dangerous IMO
> because you have 100%
> handhold as a backup
> to a slipped foot.
>
> Certainly, not to be used
> when it is wild out.
>
> In that case use the duck
> underneath, stand in the waist
> high forward hatch.
--- Nels wrote:
It is not very dangerous IMO
because you have 100%
handhold as a backup
to a slipped foot.
Certainly, not to be used
when it is wild out.
In that case use the duck
underneath, stand in the waist
high forward hatch.
> Perhaps PB&F might view this as a bit unsafeI will ask him...
> slipping and falling
It is not very dangerous IMO
because you have 100%
handhold as a backup
to a slipped foot.
Certainly, not to be used
when it is wild out.
In that case use the duck
underneath, stand in the waist
high forward hatch.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
way, since there could be an issue of possible slipping and falling
when in a seaway. However I can see it as very useful even if one
only made use of the foot and hand holds when the boat is on the
trailer or at anchor.
Nels
> I added another 1 1/2" along the topPerhaps PB&F might view this as a bit unsafe if they designed it that
> of the rubrail, for a total of 3"
> toehold depth. This is not strictly
> 'per plans', but in my opinion, it
> is n improvement on the PB&F design
> because you can quickly scoot along
> the length of the boat, around the
> cabin. [I also added grab rails along
> the boat, which is not strictly 'per
> plans' either.]
way, since there could be an issue of possible slipping and falling
when in a seaway. However I can see it as very useful even if one
only made use of the foot and hand holds when the boat is on the
trailer or at anchor.
Nels
--- Nels wrote:
in the shop, that at times I wanted
to quickly move from the afterdeck to
the foredeck, without climbing down,
over or through the cabin.
I added another 1 1/2" along the top
of the rubrail, for a total of 3"
toehold depth. This is not strictly
'per plans', but in my opinion, it
is n improvement on the PB&F design
because you can quickly scoot along
the length of the boat, around the
cabin. [I also added grab rails along
the boat, which is not strictly 'per
plans' either.]
> as well as seving as a toehold.I found that on my Micro Navigator,
in the shop, that at times I wanted
to quickly move from the afterdeck to
the foredeck, without climbing down,
over or through the cabin.
I added another 1 1/2" along the top
of the rubrail, for a total of 3"
toehold depth. This is not strictly
'per plans', but in my opinion, it
is n improvement on the PB&F design
because you can quickly scoot along
the length of the boat, around the
cabin. [I also added grab rails along
the boat, which is not strictly 'per
plans' either.]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
My hypothetical wear problem
> really shouldn't affect my decision after all. And why is
converging grains
> 'correct', Nels? I'm sure there must be a good reason for it, I
just am not
> aware what that reason is. Strength?
Paul...
Seems to me the reason for laminating converging grains "together" is
to help prevent the two strips for separating along the glue line.
Natural wood has a tendency to curl away from the grain - should it
warp at all. Therefore if this occurs it should tend to keep the
outer edges of the joint tight.
I noticed most finished boats don't
> have the specified half-oval brass on the rails - and one look at
Jamestown
> Distributor's catalog tells me why - it's one of the priciest bits
on the
> whole boat!
Maybe get some of that phony plastic "brass" stripping like they use
on some furniture;-)
Perhaps one could look at applying an outer layer wood strip that
could be considered sacrificial if it gets dinged up. This could be
mounted with bedding compound so it is relatively easy to replace, as
well as seving as a toehold.
Nels
Thanks, all, for chiming in. I did not in fact get the rails on this
weekend - it was too cold out in the garage for any epoxy work, but I did
make progress on other fronts. I had looked at the plans, and noticed the
two-part rubrail, but wondered about Peter's, as from photos it obviously
was a single piece, but I couldn't tell if it was a wider plank or not -
thanks for clarifying for me, Peter, as well as giving some realistic
context to the durability of these things. My hypothetical wear problem
really shouldn't affect my decision after all. And why is converging grains
'correct', Nels? I'm sure there must be a good reason for it, I just am not
aware what that reason is. Strength? I noticed most finished boats don't
have the specified half-oval brass on the rails - and one look at Jamestown
Distributor's catalog tells me why - it's one of the priciest bits on the
whole boat!
My inclination all along has been to use epoxy to stick the rails on - I've
never worked with any other goops so it's easy to go with what I know. But I
wanted some other opinions - I know there are many who do not use epoxy
unless it is really necessary, and I probably go a bit too far in the other
direction; when in doubt, I mix up a batch. But in this case, Peter's
arguments fit well with my own experience and intuition, and the apparent
intended multipule function of the rails.
I've been away from this group for much of the summer, too active in a few
motorcycle groups (my wife took up riding this summer so I've had two bikes
to maintain, and had to customize a new bike fit her petite frame) but have
made alot of progress on the Micro. All major panels are on except the cabin
top, which will be going on before winter if the temps will cooperate. All
other exterior surfaces are glassed and ready for finishing in the spring.
Before I close in my workspace for good I've been busy finishing the
interior, and preparing lots of pieces for the next warm day so I can epoxy
it all into place. Bunk supports are fitted and bunk flats have storage
access ports cut and routed with a step to hold their covers; a very rugged
and pretty dovetailed hatch coaming of scavenged Ipé (Brazilian ironwood) is
rabbetted and fitted in the hole, awaiting epoxy, and the hatch is going
together tonight; and a laminated, curved deck beam is notched into the deck
stringers in prepartion for laying on the cabin top. The entire rear
compartment is painted. In the next few days, temps in my garage should go
high enough for me to stick a few more things together. It's really giving
me great satisfaction to work on some of these 'finishing touches. It is
also impressive how the whole has become so much more than a sum of the
parts; I now have a very solid and confidence-inspiring little boat sitting
in my garage. I've gone over Kirby Paint's pallette and have chosen a paint
scheme, which I believe will be unique in Micro-world; and have selected a
name: 'Namasté'. A bit more subtle than 'Riff-Raff' (which I love) but I
think it still sends a nice message to the big pretentious trophy boats I'm
sure to be surrounded by in my home waters.
I'm hoping Santa will bring me a digital camera, so I can start posting
pics; in the meantime rest assured that I have not abandoned my project -
not by a long shot! And I'm sorry if I've caused another project to be added
to your extensive list, Peter.... but kayaks are fun too!
thanks guys
Paul Lefebvre
praying for a bit of Global Warming to speed my epoxy curing, here on chilly
Cape Cod
weekend - it was too cold out in the garage for any epoxy work, but I did
make progress on other fronts. I had looked at the plans, and noticed the
two-part rubrail, but wondered about Peter's, as from photos it obviously
was a single piece, but I couldn't tell if it was a wider plank or not -
thanks for clarifying for me, Peter, as well as giving some realistic
context to the durability of these things. My hypothetical wear problem
really shouldn't affect my decision after all. And why is converging grains
'correct', Nels? I'm sure there must be a good reason for it, I just am not
aware what that reason is. Strength? I noticed most finished boats don't
have the specified half-oval brass on the rails - and one look at Jamestown
Distributor's catalog tells me why - it's one of the priciest bits on the
whole boat!
My inclination all along has been to use epoxy to stick the rails on - I've
never worked with any other goops so it's easy to go with what I know. But I
wanted some other opinions - I know there are many who do not use epoxy
unless it is really necessary, and I probably go a bit too far in the other
direction; when in doubt, I mix up a batch. But in this case, Peter's
arguments fit well with my own experience and intuition, and the apparent
intended multipule function of the rails.
I've been away from this group for much of the summer, too active in a few
motorcycle groups (my wife took up riding this summer so I've had two bikes
to maintain, and had to customize a new bike fit her petite frame) but have
made alot of progress on the Micro. All major panels are on except the cabin
top, which will be going on before winter if the temps will cooperate. All
other exterior surfaces are glassed and ready for finishing in the spring.
Before I close in my workspace for good I've been busy finishing the
interior, and preparing lots of pieces for the next warm day so I can epoxy
it all into place. Bunk supports are fitted and bunk flats have storage
access ports cut and routed with a step to hold their covers; a very rugged
and pretty dovetailed hatch coaming of scavenged Ipé (Brazilian ironwood) is
rabbetted and fitted in the hole, awaiting epoxy, and the hatch is going
together tonight; and a laminated, curved deck beam is notched into the deck
stringers in prepartion for laying on the cabin top. The entire rear
compartment is painted. In the next few days, temps in my garage should go
high enough for me to stick a few more things together. It's really giving
me great satisfaction to work on some of these 'finishing touches. It is
also impressive how the whole has become so much more than a sum of the
parts; I now have a very solid and confidence-inspiring little boat sitting
in my garage. I've gone over Kirby Paint's pallette and have chosen a paint
scheme, which I believe will be unique in Micro-world; and have selected a
name: 'Namasté'. A bit more subtle than 'Riff-Raff' (which I love) but I
think it still sends a nice message to the big pretentious trophy boats I'm
sure to be surrounded by in my home waters.
I'm hoping Santa will bring me a digital camera, so I can start posting
pics; in the meantime rest assured that I have not abandoned my project -
not by a long shot! And I'm sorry if I've caused another project to be added
to your extensive list, Peter.... but kayaks are fun too!
thanks guys
Paul Lefebvre
praying for a bit of Global Warming to speed my epoxy curing, here on chilly
Cape Cod
--- Nels wrote:
plans call for and see no distortion. My guess is
that the curve of the natural spring in the wood
matches the 'per plans' curve of the boat sides
equally.
Though, I didn't spring the rubrails on until
I had the main athwartship deck beams installed
which certainly help hold the shape of the sides.
> One other thing it may be worth considering is theFor what it is worth, I used heavier that the
> possibility that if you use a heavier, or stiffer
> piece than what the plans call for -
> you might end up with the rubrail distorting the
> 1/4" plywood underneath.
plans call for and see no distortion. My guess is
that the curve of the natural spring in the wood
matches the 'per plans' curve of the boat sides
equally.
Though, I didn't spring the rubrails on until
I had the main athwartship deck beams installed
which certainly help hold the shape of the sides.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <lestat@b...> wrote:
One other thing it may be worth considering is the possibility that
if you use a heavier, or stiffer piece than what the plans call for -
you might end up with the rubrail distorting the 1/4" plywood
underneath. For example,creating a flat spot between the bulkheads. I
believe Peter used 3/8" ply which is much stiffer. Any small
distortion would only show up when the light hits the finished hull a
certain way and nobody would notice - except you!
Looking at the plans it would appear that an ordinary piece of 1X3
(3/4 X 21/2) is used with a proprietary length of molding laminated
over it. This is also shown on page 221 of BWAOM.
And if you look really closely you will notice that Bolger even drew
the grain of the two pieces as converging - which of course is the
correct way to do it.
Awesome! Nels (Where Lestat is getting a taste of -21 temperatures as
I write.)
> >Crew
> > Paul Lefebvre
>
>
> Hi Paul!
> Good to hear that you are indeed pursuing your Micro build!
> Thanks to you, I will one day have to build a kayak for my Pesky
> who still recalls the fun she had on Lake Champlain using one ofLESTAT,but
> yours :-)
> I don't know if you recall how the rub-rail looked on
> I did mine with a piece of mahogany,aprox. 3X2 with a short bitHi Paul,
> scarfed onto the end to get the required length.
One other thing it may be worth considering is the possibility that
if you use a heavier, or stiffer piece than what the plans call for -
you might end up with the rubrail distorting the 1/4" plywood
underneath. For example,creating a flat spot between the bulkheads. I
believe Peter used 3/8" ply which is much stiffer. Any small
distortion would only show up when the light hits the finished hull a
certain way and nobody would notice - except you!
Looking at the plans it would appear that an ordinary piece of 1X3
(3/4 X 21/2) is used with a proprietary length of molding laminated
over it. This is also shown on page 221 of BWAOM.
And if you look really closely you will notice that Bolger even drew
the grain of the two pieces as converging - which of course is the
correct way to do it.
Awesome! Nels (Where Lestat is getting a taste of -21 temperatures as
I write.)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@w...> wrote:
This weekend I'll be sticking the rubrails on and am wondering if
> these should be 'permanently' glued on with epoxy directly over the
bare
> fiberglass, or stuck on with some other kind of goo that might be
somewhat
> more removeable should I ever have to replace one of these due to
some kind
> of damage. I'll also be using screws, from the inside. It does seem
these
> strips were designed to do double duty, both as rubrails and also
as a
> structural, stiffening element on those broad 1/4" plywood sides,
which
> would indicate epoxy to me. Also wondering abouth the best wood to
use for
> this - my choices are pseudo-mahogany, doug fir, or Ipé. Ipé would
certainly
> be the most resistant to any kind of dings and such, but I rather
doubt
> it'll make the bend unless I rip it into thinner strips. For
obvious reasons
> I'd rather just use two pieces of 3/4" stock as indicated on the
plans...
> would appreciate comments!
>
> thanks
>
> Paul Lefebvre
Hi Paul!
Good to hear that you are indeed pursuing your Micro build!
Thanks to you, I will one day have to build a kayak for my Pesky Crew
who still recalls the fun she had on Lake Champlain using one of
yours :-)
I don't know if you recall how the rub-rail looked on LESTAT,but
I did mine with a piece of mahogany,aprox. 3X2 with a short bit
scarfed onto the end to get the required length.The outboard corners
were beveled to reduce somewhat the apparent bulk of the rubrail and
to leave no flat spots for water to sit in.
The one piece mahogany took the curves easily with one person
outside slowy pushing inward while another screwed from inside.The
whole thing was bedded in epoxy.Also,before installing the rub-rail,I
gave it the "hollowing trick" which ensures that when the rail is all
drawn in nice and tight,enough epoxy remains in the seam to do its
job.
You're correct when you surmise that the rail does double
duty,especially with 1/4" sides....alot of stiffness is introduced
with that rub rail. However, you will still need to use proper boat
fenders to protect the hull since most quays never reach the height
of the rub rail.
After many years of steady use in all sorts of scenarios and
transiting locks all the way from the smallest ones of Parks Canada
to the big boys of the St.Lawrence Seaway,the rub rails never were
damaged(perhaps the odd scruff mark,but that just added character and
showed that the boat actually got some use) to any extent that one
would ever require replacement.Keep in mind too that my MICRO was
always stored outside in a wildly fluctuating climate with tons of
opportunities for grief. I would be inclined to shy away from
building them in two laminations since;A) that seam is just one
more "weak" spot for water to seep into, and B) you're giving
yourself some un-neccessary work :-)
And finally,I think it is a falsity to secure such things as rub
rails,toe rails etc with soft bedding compounds simply on the grounds
that this will allow easy replacement should they rot or get
damaged.It has been my experience when viewing other boats, that most
bedding compounds appear to eventually dry-out and/or shrink over
time thereby allowing water infiltration underneath them and hence
rot.Otherwise,a fully sealed in epoxy attachment does not.
Also,unless you plan on using your MICRO as some sort of tugboat or
work boat,there is a very slim chance that your rub-rails,toe-rails
etc will ever get that badly beaten up so as to require replacement.
None of the above,however,does not excuse negligent boat
husbandry! Basic and simple maintenance should keep your pride and
joy precisely that,YOUR PRIDE AND JOY :-)
Have fun this week-end and do consider posting some pictures of
your work in progress.Afterall, winter is shutting down alot of
boating fun and pictures help us visually activated nuts to
endure.....:- )
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who has a "honey-do" list which actually includes,of
all things,a kayak(!),from along the snow/sleet/freezing rain driven
shores of the St.Lawrence............
--- Paul Lefebvre wrote:
I used, and found workable was
3/4" x 1 1/2" strips obtained by
ripping a Home Depot 2x8 with
a Skilsaw using a ripping guide.
> see how easy it is toFor what it is worth, the size
> get it to follow the lines
I used, and found workable was
3/4" x 1 1/2" strips obtained by
ripping a Home Depot 2x8 with
a Skilsaw using a ripping guide.
Thanks for the tips Bruce; my inclination is to use epoxy since I am so
familiar with it, and your method for removing the old rubrails sounds like
it would work on the off-chance I ever need to do so.
I've got some leftover mahogany of about the right dimension for the wider
of the two strips; I think I'll put it on there and see how easy it is to
get it to follow the lines I drew when measuring out the panels so long ago
now; then I'll know whether I can use that or not.
thanks again
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:11 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] attaching rubrails
--- Paul Lefebvre wrote:
with a partially finished Micro hull
which had oak 1"x6" rubrails put on
crooked with epoxy and brass screws
driven from the interior.
I removed them by cross cutting with
a Skilsaw at 1" intervals, chiseling off
the chunks and then grinding the mess
smooth with an angle grinder and belt
sander.
I put new rubrails back on, curved more to
my aesthetic liking, with polyurethane glue,
though most any glue would work; IMO. I used
drywall screws to hold 'em in place while
the glue set, then I removed the screws and
filled the holes with epoxy.
Notice that the plans call for the
rubrails to bend in two directions...
with the shape of the side, but also
with the shape of the sheer. This
bend cannot be achieved with a 1"x6".
Use two, or more, narrower pieces to
get bend in the vertical direction.
I chose to upsize my rubrail, with a
3" ledge to allow me to shimmy along
the rail to quickly transverse from the
after deck to the fore deck around the
Navigator cabin.
To some extent, the rubrails need to
be viewed as ornamental. As, the
adjacent hull is only 1/4" plywood,
a random encounted with something hard
could easily miss the rub rail and
puncture the 1/4" plywood anyway.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
familiar with it, and your method for removing the old rubrails sounds like
it would work on the off-chance I ever need to do so.
I've got some leftover mahogany of about the right dimension for the wider
of the two strips; I think I'll put it on there and see how easy it is to
get it to follow the lines I drew when measuring out the panels so long ago
now; then I'll know whether I can use that or not.
thanks again
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:11 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] attaching rubrails
--- Paul Lefebvre wrote:
> the rubrailsMy Micro Navigator projected started
> might be somewhat
> more removeable
with a partially finished Micro hull
which had oak 1"x6" rubrails put on
crooked with epoxy and brass screws
driven from the interior.
I removed them by cross cutting with
a Skilsaw at 1" intervals, chiseling off
the chunks and then grinding the mess
smooth with an angle grinder and belt
sander.
I put new rubrails back on, curved more to
my aesthetic liking, with polyurethane glue,
though most any glue would work; IMO. I used
drywall screws to hold 'em in place while
the glue set, then I removed the screws and
filled the holes with epoxy.
Notice that the plans call for the
rubrails to bend in two directions...
with the shape of the side, but also
with the shape of the sheer. This
bend cannot be achieved with a 1"x6".
Use two, or more, narrower pieces to
get bend in the vertical direction.
I chose to upsize my rubrail, with a
3" ledge to allow me to shimmy along
the rail to quickly transverse from the
after deck to the fore deck around the
Navigator cabin.
To some extent, the rubrails need to
be viewed as ornamental. As, the
adjacent hull is only 1/4" plywood,
a random encounted with something hard
could easily miss the rub rail and
puncture the 1/4" plywood anyway.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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--- Paul Lefebvre wrote:
with a partially finished Micro hull
which had oak 1"x6" rubrails put on
crooked with epoxy and brass screws
driven from the interior.
I removed them by cross cutting with
a Skilsaw at 1" intervals, chiseling off
the chunks and then grinding the mess
smooth with an angle grinder and belt
sander.
I put new rubrails back on, curved more to
my aesthetic liking, with polyurethane glue,
though most any glue would work; IMO. I used
drywall screws to hold 'em in place while
the glue set, then I removed the screws and
filled the holes with epoxy.
Notice that the plans call for the
rubrails to bend in two directions...
with the shape of the side, but also
with the shape of the sheer. This
bend cannot be achieved with a 1"x6".
Use two, or more, narrower pieces to
get bend in the vertical direction.
I chose to upsize my rubrail, with a
3" ledge to allow me to shimmy along
the rail to quickly transverse from the
after deck to the fore deck around the
Navigator cabin.
To some extent, the rubrails need to
be viewed as ornamental. As, the
adjacent hull is only 1/4" plywood,
a random encounted with something hard
could easily miss the rub rail and
puncture the 1/4" plywood anyway.
> the rubrailsMy Micro Navigator projected started
> might be somewhat
> more removeable
with a partially finished Micro hull
which had oak 1"x6" rubrails put on
crooked with epoxy and brass screws
driven from the interior.
I removed them by cross cutting with
a Skilsaw at 1" intervals, chiseling off
the chunks and then grinding the mess
smooth with an angle grinder and belt
sander.
I put new rubrails back on, curved more to
my aesthetic liking, with polyurethane glue,
though most any glue would work; IMO. I used
drywall screws to hold 'em in place while
the glue set, then I removed the screws and
filled the holes with epoxy.
Notice that the plans call for the
rubrails to bend in two directions...
with the shape of the side, but also
with the shape of the sheer. This
bend cannot be achieved with a 1"x6".
Use two, or more, narrower pieces to
get bend in the vertical direction.
I chose to upsize my rubrail, with a
3" ledge to allow me to shimmy along
the rail to quickly transverse from the
after deck to the fore deck around the
Navigator cabin.
To some extent, the rubrails need to
be viewed as ornamental. As, the
adjacent hull is only 1/4" plywood,
a random encounted with something hard
could easily miss the rub rail and
puncture the 1/4" plywood anyway.
Howdy,
In spite of my long silence around here, I have been plugging away at my
micro at a slow but steady pace. It now looks like a boat and would float if
tossed in the water, and as it comes together my pace is picking up a bit,
and my wife is more willing to relinquish 'her' garage for progress to
continue. This weekend I'll be sticking the rubrails on and am wondering if
these should be 'permanently' glued on with epoxy directly over the bare
fiberglass, or stuck on with some other kind of goo that might be somewhat
more removeable should I ever have to replace one of these due to some kind
of damage. I'll also be using screws, from the inside. It does seem these
strips were designed to do double duty, both as rubrails and also as a
structural, stiffening element on those broad 1/4" plywood sides, which
would indicate epoxy to me. Also wondering abouth the best wood to use for
this - my choices are pseudo-mahogany, doug fir, or Ipé. Ipé would certainly
be the most resistant to any kind of dings and such, but I rather doubt
it'll make the bend unless I rip it into thinner strips. For obvious reasons
I'd rather just use two pieces of 3/4" stock as indicated on the plans...
would appreciate comments!
thanks
Paul Lefebvre
In spite of my long silence around here, I have been plugging away at my
micro at a slow but steady pace. It now looks like a boat and would float if
tossed in the water, and as it comes together my pace is picking up a bit,
and my wife is more willing to relinquish 'her' garage for progress to
continue. This weekend I'll be sticking the rubrails on and am wondering if
these should be 'permanently' glued on with epoxy directly over the bare
fiberglass, or stuck on with some other kind of goo that might be somewhat
more removeable should I ever have to replace one of these due to some kind
of damage. I'll also be using screws, from the inside. It does seem these
strips were designed to do double duty, both as rubrails and also as a
structural, stiffening element on those broad 1/4" plywood sides, which
would indicate epoxy to me. Also wondering abouth the best wood to use for
this - my choices are pseudo-mahogany, doug fir, or Ipé. Ipé would certainly
be the most resistant to any kind of dings and such, but I rather doubt
it'll make the bend unless I rip it into thinner strips. For obvious reasons
I'd rather just use two pieces of 3/4" stock as indicated on the plans...
would appreciate comments!
thanks
Paul Lefebvre
if you did not have to look at them there are also the (way)(wea) the
hard plastic containers the grease comes in too.
has any one used the blue foam insulation from home depot?
hard plastic containers the grease comes in too.
has any one used the blue foam insulation from home depot?
On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 07:08 PM, Bruce C. Anderson wrote:
> Howdy Jeff
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Subject: [bolger] air bladders
> >
>
> > I was looking for a better way to provide self rescue, keep
> > the hull high enough to be able to empty to the hull of
> > water. and get out of the cold water
> >
> Have you considered soft drink syrup bags? They are available at any
> fast
> food outlet. :)
>
> Good Luck
>
> See Ya
>
> Have Fun
>
> Bruce
>
>http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Howdy Jeff
food outlet. :)
Good Luck
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
> -----Original Message-----Have you considered soft drink syrup bags? They are available at any fast
> Subject: [bolger] air bladders
>
> I was looking for a better way to provide self rescue, keep
> the hull high enough to be able to empty to the hull of
> water. and get out of the cold water
>
food outlet. :)
Good Luck
See Ya
Have Fun
Bruce
http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
I was afraid that if I pour foam it could push apart the seams on the stitch and glue or maybe deform the shape
I was looking for a better way to provide self rescue, keep the hull high enough to be able to empty to the hull of water. and get out of the cold water
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was looking for a better way to provide self rescue, keep the hull high enough to be able to empty to the hull of water. and get out of the cold water
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]