Re: Chebacco's dinghy? (And armor plating the keel)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
If only it were true.......alas, the St.Lawrence where I sailed
is a rock strewn affair.Remember,there is a nice steady current which
washes much sediment away thereby exposing rocks and boulders larger
then most cars. Where there is sludge,sand or mud the water is deep
and the current virtually nil. What may have helped in keeping down
any serious damage is that nice shallow full length keel and the
relatively low speed travel of the MICRO.Whenever I have kissed the
bottom(accidently or with intent),the effect is a slight raising of
the bow,vibrations felt under ones posterior and some resonating
sounds effects heard from within the cabin followed by silence.
Also,as you know, my keel assembly is substantially more robust
then what is called for on the plans.This solid lamination of
mahogany, all through-bolted to the bottom, goes a long way toward
peace of mind.What I have found most illuminating is that,despite
virtually no more protection then bottom paint on that sacrificial
shoe, it appears to continue to hold up well, resisting rot and big
chunks being torn off with my groundings. I sometimes wondered if
this was because it was out of mahogany or was it the toxic soup of
the river water which prevented degradation.
And finally, although the boat is a beast to move when out of
the water, this is not the case when in the water.That is,with her
weight being fully supported all around her bottom seems to make
groundings less dramatic then one would expect since it is not her
entire weight which stikes the rock,per say but rather some amount
less then that.
For your LMN project, I would be most inclined to shy away from
the rudimentary keel assembly presented and opt for something beefier
to accompany you on both your trailer travels and the "uncharted"
waters you may wish to explore.
I like your rendition for a LMN :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,begining to feel the chill of winter with a -15 degree
chill factored wind blowing like a banshee outside,from along the
shores of the St.Lawrence...............
>perfect
> Back to the keel protection. On Lestat, Peter Lenihan added
> a "sacrificial" hardwood keel strip. So far it seems to be in
> condition after 10 years, but knowing Peter he would not haveallowed
> it to more than nudge anything harder than St. Lawrence Riversludge:-
> )Hi Nels,
>
> Nels
If only it were true.......alas, the St.Lawrence where I sailed
is a rock strewn affair.Remember,there is a nice steady current which
washes much sediment away thereby exposing rocks and boulders larger
then most cars. Where there is sludge,sand or mud the water is deep
and the current virtually nil. What may have helped in keeping down
any serious damage is that nice shallow full length keel and the
relatively low speed travel of the MICRO.Whenever I have kissed the
bottom(accidently or with intent),the effect is a slight raising of
the bow,vibrations felt under ones posterior and some resonating
sounds effects heard from within the cabin followed by silence.
Also,as you know, my keel assembly is substantially more robust
then what is called for on the plans.This solid lamination of
mahogany, all through-bolted to the bottom, goes a long way toward
peace of mind.What I have found most illuminating is that,despite
virtually no more protection then bottom paint on that sacrificial
shoe, it appears to continue to hold up well, resisting rot and big
chunks being torn off with my groundings. I sometimes wondered if
this was because it was out of mahogany or was it the toxic soup of
the river water which prevented degradation.
And finally, although the boat is a beast to move when out of
the water, this is not the case when in the water.That is,with her
weight being fully supported all around her bottom seems to make
groundings less dramatic then one would expect since it is not her
entire weight which stikes the rock,per say but rather some amount
less then that.
For your LMN project, I would be most inclined to shy away from
the rudimentary keel assembly presented and opt for something beefier
to accompany you on both your trailer travels and the "uncharted"
waters you may wish to explore.
I like your rendition for a LMN :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,begining to feel the chill of winter with a -15 degree
chill factored wind blowing like a banshee outside,from along the
shores of the St.Lawrence...............
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...>
wrote:
I also read with interest about your communications with PCB&F
regarding offering CHEBACCO plans for sale on the internet. Seems
they want complete control of the plans after previous experience. I
wonder if there has been a shift in focus with them? They do not seem
interested in selling plans at all, but perhaps more interested in
doing comissions for new custom designs? I wonder if there is
actually any money to be made in designing boats for the homebuilder?
Wonder if Jim Mikalak actually makes any real significant return on
his work or if he is simply doing it for fun. As are Chuck and Gavin
and several other complete boat nuts!
Back to the keel protection. On Lestat, Peter Lenihan added
a "sacrificial" hardwood keel strip. So far it seems to be in perfect
condition after 10 years, but knowing Peter he would not have allowed
it to more than nudge anything harder than St. Lawrence River sludge:-
)
Nels
wrote:
>http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco5.1/article.htmThanks Richard for the link - very informative and great photos.
I also read with interest about your communications with PCB&F
regarding offering CHEBACCO plans for sale on the internet. Seems
they want complete control of the plans after previous experience. I
wonder if there has been a shift in focus with them? They do not seem
interested in selling plans at all, but perhaps more interested in
doing comissions for new custom designs? I wonder if there is
actually any money to be made in designing boats for the homebuilder?
Wonder if Jim Mikalak actually makes any real significant return on
his work or if he is simply doing it for fun. As are Chuck and Gavin
and several other complete boat nuts!
Back to the keel protection. On Lestat, Peter Lenihan added
a "sacrificial" hardwood keel strip. So far it seems to be in perfect
condition after 10 years, but knowing Peter he would not have allowed
it to more than nudge anything harder than St. Lawrence River sludge:-
)
Nels
http://www.chebacco.com/articles/chebacco5.1/article.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 5:41 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco's dinghy?
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...>
> wrote:
> > Personaly, I just armored the keel, and beach the thing. It's not
> hard to find shoreline with enough slope to let you walk off the
> > nose without getting your feet wet.
> >
> Could you share some details on how you did this?
>
> Nelsb
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Only you can decide if you need a dinghy, because it depends greatly
on how and where you need to go ashore. On multiday trips in the
Chesapeake Bay for me a dinghy is indispensible on some trips, for
others it is just a bother.
Since I don't like to pay slip fees when away from home a dinghy is
usually a big plus.
On the other hand if you only want to land on beaches where you can
just pull the Chebacco on shore, why bother with a dinghy.
Another case is trips where you only want to go ashore at restaurants
who have free dockage for patrons. Again no need for a dinghy. At
least one of my favorite ports has a restaurant that usually allows us
to stay all day if we want (In that case we eat lunch and dinner
there), has a public shower, and doesn't even run us off if we stay
overnight. It would probably be different on a busy holiday weekend,
but we don't go there then.
I haven't used a Nutshell, but have used a Nymph and a D4. Between my
Nymph and my D4 there are things that I like about each (and things
that I don't).
The Nymph has always towed well and stayed very dry. She never seems
to ship a drop of water, even in pretty rough conditions. The D4 has
taken on some water, enough to cause some anxious moments on a trip
with quite rough conditions. I think that most of it comes through
the daggerboard trunk. I need to make a better plug for the trunk to
prevent that. With no plug she swamps quickly in even mild conditions
when towed. She also takes on more water than I would like when
sailing her in chop. I probably should have fitted the daggerboard
tighter in the trunk.
She rows well when loaded if she has at least a couple hundred pounds
on board. She is pretty squirrely with a light kid at the oars. It
looked like there was only about 2' of boat in the water with just a
90 pound teenager on board. Lots of going in circles etc. Same kid
in the D4 no problem. To be fair there were different oars in the two
boats and that made some difference.
The D4 can just be stepped into with no particular care. The Nymph,
you have to think about where you place your weight when boarding. At
first I found it too tippy, but quickly got used to it.
The seating in the Nymph allows easily shifting weight fore and aft to
trim the boat with varying cargo and passenger arrangements. The D4
seemed way less fussy and didn't need such adjustments much when rowing.
On the other hand with the d4 sail rig, I always feel like my weight
is to far forward when on the bench seat and wind up in an
uncomfortable position to shift weight aft. I haven't put a sail rig
on Nymph, but would think the seating would be awful and the boat too
tippy.
The seating in the Nymph is awkward for an active dog who keeps
falling off the seat. This particular dog is quite agile and well
coordinated in most non boating situations and has no problem in the D4.
My Nymph has had a lot of weight on board. She still rowed well and
had some freeboard left with one large adult (230#), two teenage
girls(110# each?), one small 4 year old (25#?), and medium sized dog
(50#)! Quite a load (maybe 525# of crew). I have never had more than
maybe 375# of crew on the D4, but she would take more. The numbers
are a guess, but probably a good one.
In some conditions Nymph is VERY noisy at anchor. I don't run into
those conditions very often, but once it was bad enough that I didn't
think anyone in the anchorage would be able to sleep if I didn't do
something. I pulled her bow up onto the stern of the mothership to
quiet her down and all was well. I have't run into conditions where
D4 is noisy, but haven't had her out as much either.
Personally I really like to have a sail rig for my tender. I haven't
sailed Nymph, but suspect that she would come up lacking in that
regard because of the seating arrangement and tippiness. A Reubens
Nymph with a modified seating arrangement would probably be a good
choice if you want to sail the dinghy.
My Nymph is hard for me to carry any distance while the D4 at the same
weight is easy. The difference is that the seat of the D4 can be
rested across my shoulders like the thwart of a canoe.
Wow! I didn't intend to go on that long. I hope some of this info is
helpful.
Pete
on how and where you need to go ashore. On multiday trips in the
Chesapeake Bay for me a dinghy is indispensible on some trips, for
others it is just a bother.
Since I don't like to pay slip fees when away from home a dinghy is
usually a big plus.
On the other hand if you only want to land on beaches where you can
just pull the Chebacco on shore, why bother with a dinghy.
Another case is trips where you only want to go ashore at restaurants
who have free dockage for patrons. Again no need for a dinghy. At
least one of my favorite ports has a restaurant that usually allows us
to stay all day if we want (In that case we eat lunch and dinner
there), has a public shower, and doesn't even run us off if we stay
overnight. It would probably be different on a busy holiday weekend,
but we don't go there then.
I haven't used a Nutshell, but have used a Nymph and a D4. Between my
Nymph and my D4 there are things that I like about each (and things
that I don't).
The Nymph has always towed well and stayed very dry. She never seems
to ship a drop of water, even in pretty rough conditions. The D4 has
taken on some water, enough to cause some anxious moments on a trip
with quite rough conditions. I think that most of it comes through
the daggerboard trunk. I need to make a better plug for the trunk to
prevent that. With no plug she swamps quickly in even mild conditions
when towed. She also takes on more water than I would like when
sailing her in chop. I probably should have fitted the daggerboard
tighter in the trunk.
She rows well when loaded if she has at least a couple hundred pounds
on board. She is pretty squirrely with a light kid at the oars. It
looked like there was only about 2' of boat in the water with just a
90 pound teenager on board. Lots of going in circles etc. Same kid
in the D4 no problem. To be fair there were different oars in the two
boats and that made some difference.
The D4 can just be stepped into with no particular care. The Nymph,
you have to think about where you place your weight when boarding. At
first I found it too tippy, but quickly got used to it.
The seating in the Nymph allows easily shifting weight fore and aft to
trim the boat with varying cargo and passenger arrangements. The D4
seemed way less fussy and didn't need such adjustments much when rowing.
On the other hand with the d4 sail rig, I always feel like my weight
is to far forward when on the bench seat and wind up in an
uncomfortable position to shift weight aft. I haven't put a sail rig
on Nymph, but would think the seating would be awful and the boat too
tippy.
The seating in the Nymph is awkward for an active dog who keeps
falling off the seat. This particular dog is quite agile and well
coordinated in most non boating situations and has no problem in the D4.
My Nymph has had a lot of weight on board. She still rowed well and
had some freeboard left with one large adult (230#), two teenage
girls(110# each?), one small 4 year old (25#?), and medium sized dog
(50#)! Quite a load (maybe 525# of crew). I have never had more than
maybe 375# of crew on the D4, but she would take more. The numbers
are a guess, but probably a good one.
In some conditions Nymph is VERY noisy at anchor. I don't run into
those conditions very often, but once it was bad enough that I didn't
think anyone in the anchorage would be able to sleep if I didn't do
something. I pulled her bow up onto the stern of the mothership to
quiet her down and all was well. I have't run into conditions where
D4 is noisy, but haven't had her out as much either.
Personally I really like to have a sail rig for my tender. I haven't
sailed Nymph, but suspect that she would come up lacking in that
regard because of the seating arrangement and tippiness. A Reubens
Nymph with a modified seating arrangement would probably be a good
choice if you want to sail the dinghy.
My Nymph is hard for me to carry any distance while the D4 at the same
weight is easy. The difference is that the seat of the D4 can be
rested across my shoulders like the thwart of a canoe.
Wow! I didn't intend to go on that long. I hope some of this info is
helpful.
Pete
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling" <richard@c...>
wrote:
Nelsb
wrote:
> Personaly, I just armored the keel, and beach the thing. It's nothard to find shoreline with enough slope to let you walk off the
> nose without getting your feet wet.Could you share some details on how you did this?
>
Nelsb
Personaly, I just armored the keel, and beach the thing. It's not hard to find shoreline with enough slope to let you walk off the
nose without getting your feet wet.
I was looking into dingies here on this list about a year ago, the second best option to my patented "screw it, beach the boat"
method was Jamie's inflatable.
You have to realize, this is only a 20ft boat, with a centerboard. There are not many places you can put a dingy that you can't nose
the Chebacco into.
Also, a dingly is a pain to tow, slows you down, chance of loosing it, etc.
nose without getting your feet wet.
I was looking into dingies here on this list about a year ago, the second best option to my patented "screw it, beach the boat"
method was Jamie's inflatable.
You have to realize, this is only a 20ft boat, with a centerboard. There are not many places you can put a dingy that you can't nose
the Chebacco into.
Also, a dingly is a pain to tow, slows you down, chance of loosing it, etc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul_romayne" <paul_romayne@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 12:09 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco's dinghy?
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dickb_bolger" <burnharch@h...> wrote:
> > Does a Chebacco need a dinghy? If cruising about, does one get to
> > shore and back with ease with the Chebacco or is a dinghy a need?
> If
> > so, how does one compare, say, Joel White's Nutshell to Bolger's
> > Nymph? Obviously either would be towed and, as such, what are the
> > problems? Ramming, drag, etc.? If not, how cool!
>
> The Chebacco is small and manuverable enough to easily dock or run
> onto the beach. However, if you like to anchor out and avoid paying
> for dockage at a marina, then having a dinghy is essential. A dinghy
> will also open up many more places where you can land.
>
> The Nymph is a very good tender in many ways: I'ver towed my Nymph a
> couple of thousand miles - it has never shipped any water, rows
> easily, is light enough for me to carry by myself, has never rammed
> my transom even when surfing downwind in breaking 6 foot seas (using
> a 50 foot tow line, I might add.), and it is very inexpensive and
> easy to build.
>
> The negatives? - It is small and tippy - 2 people max
> and no casually stepping out of the cockpit into a Nymph unless you
> intend to go swimming.
>
> Romayne
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Hi All -
I agree - the Nymph is a great easy to build dink but very tippy when you trying to get in & out, especially if your knees are as stiff as mine. I would sugguest you look at PB&F's reworked Nymph called Ruebens Nymph. Mr Bolger has added a full foot to the width of the flat bottom section which should make a world of difference in stability.
I'd like to hear from anyone that has built & used one.
Aolha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree - the Nymph is a great easy to build dink but very tippy when you trying to get in & out, especially if your knees are as stiff as mine. I would sugguest you look at PB&F's reworked Nymph called Ruebens Nymph. Mr Bolger has added a full foot to the width of the flat bottom section which should make a world of difference in stability.
I'd like to hear from anyone that has built & used one.
Aolha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dickb_bolger" <burnharch@h...> wrote:
onto the beach. However, if you like to anchor out and avoid paying
for dockage at a marina, then having a dinghy is essential. A dinghy
will also open up many more places where you can land.
The Nymph is a very good tender in many ways: I'ver towed my Nymph a
couple of thousand miles - it has never shipped any water, rows
easily, is light enough for me to carry by myself, has never rammed
my transom even when surfing downwind in breaking 6 foot seas (using
a 50 foot tow line, I might add.), and it is very inexpensive and
easy to build.
The negatives? - It is small and tippy - 2 people max
and no casually stepping out of the cockpit into a Nymph unless you
intend to go swimming.
Romayne
> Does a Chebacco need a dinghy? If cruising about, does one get toIf
> shore and back with ease with the Chebacco or is a dinghy a need?
> so, how does one compare, say, Joel White's Nutshell to Bolger'sThe Chebacco is small and manuverable enough to easily dock or run
> Nymph? Obviously either would be towed and, as such, what are the
> problems? Ramming, drag, etc.? If not, how cool!
onto the beach. However, if you like to anchor out and avoid paying
for dockage at a marina, then having a dinghy is essential. A dinghy
will also open up many more places where you can land.
The Nymph is a very good tender in many ways: I'ver towed my Nymph a
couple of thousand miles - it has never shipped any water, rows
easily, is light enough for me to carry by myself, has never rammed
my transom even when surfing downwind in breaking 6 foot seas (using
a 50 foot tow line, I might add.), and it is very inexpensive and
easy to build.
The negatives? - It is small and tippy - 2 people max
and no casually stepping out of the cockpit into a Nymph unless you
intend to go swimming.
Romayne
Does a Chebacco need a dinghy? If cruising about, does one get to
shore and back with ease with the Chebacco or is a dinghy a need? If
so, how does one compare, say, Joel White's Nutshell to Bolger's
Nymph? Obviously either would be towed and, as such, what are the
problems? Ramming, drag, etc.? If not, how cool!
shore and back with ease with the Chebacco or is a dinghy a need? If
so, how does one compare, say, Joel White's Nutshell to Bolger's
Nymph? Obviously either would be towed and, as such, what are the
problems? Ramming, drag, etc.? If not, how cool!