[bolger] Re: Primers for latex Paints?
----- Original Message -----
From: Fritz Funk <fritzf@...>
To: <bolger@...>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 12:09 PM
Subject: [bolger] Primers for latex Paints?
> What primer works best for the latex exterior house paints that Bolger
> and others seem to favor for instant boats? (To be applied over a
> partially-epoxied suface)
I'm not sure what you mean by a "partially-epoxied surface" but I used flat
latex house paint on a plywood catamaran that was well coated with WEST and
used no primer. This was only above the waterline since the boat was
continuously in the water. Just sand well and paint. The 8 years I had the
boat, in saltwater, the paint adhered and held up fine. It would, however
wear away in spots that had a lot of abrasion, as where fenders or dinghies
rubbed against it. But it was very easy to touch up or repaint. Just wash
with freshwater, dry, and paint.
Gary
On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, Stepehn F. Heil wrote:
propylene glycol (sp?) in it--yep, antifreeze, which penetrates and helps
inhibit rot.
It dries very quickly.
The rest of us report good results, IIRC.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> Kilz 2 has been mentioned a number of times when people are sayingYes, it is a water-based primer, but it also has a substantial amount of
> Kilz does not adhere well to epoxy. I have no experience with Kilz 2
> but my recolection is that is a water-based primer.
propylene glycol (sp?) in it--yep, antifreeze, which penetrates and helps
inhibit rot.
It dries very quickly.
> Kilz (the original) is the only stuff I've used. This stuff reallyYes, this is all true. It works well, but gives me brain damage.
> smells bad and if yuo're not careful it can make you dizzy when using
> it in closed spaces. I think the reason for this is because the
> volatiles flash-off very quickly. This stuff dries very fast (less
> than 30 minutes). I have used it on many outdoor and indoor project
> (however not a boat) and I've never had any problems with it adhereing
> to anything nor has any top coats failed to stick to it.
> Can the folks who have had trouble with Kilz elaborate on whether itOnly one guy has mentioned any trouble with Kilz.
> was plain old Kilz or Kilz 2?
The rest of us report good results, IIRC.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
There is more than one type of Kilz.
Kilz 2 has been mentioned a number of times when people are saying Kilz
does not adhere well to epoxy. I have no experience with Kilz 2 but my
recolection is that is a water-based primer.
Kilz (the original) is the only stuff I've used. This stuff really
smells bad and if yuo're not careful it can make you dizzy when using
it in closed spaces. I think the reason for this is because the
volatiles flash-off very quickly. This stuff dries very fast (less than
30 minutes). I have used it on many outdoor and indoor project (however
not a boat) and I've never had any problems with it adhereing to
anything nor has any top coats failed to stick to it.
Can the folks who have had trouble with Kilz elaborate on whether it
was plain old Kilz or Kilz 2?
As for other exterior paint successes, I have had great luck with
Finneren-Haley Stormplate 30 latex primer and exterior latex. This has
hel-up wonderfully for me on various outdoor projects. Sadly, since
I've moved to TX I can't find any Finneren-Haley stores.
----- Steve Heil
chris crandall <crandal-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3283
Kilz 2 has been mentioned a number of times when people are saying Kilz
does not adhere well to epoxy. I have no experience with Kilz 2 but my
recolection is that is a water-based primer.
Kilz (the original) is the only stuff I've used. This stuff really
smells bad and if yuo're not careful it can make you dizzy when using
it in closed spaces. I think the reason for this is because the
volatiles flash-off very quickly. This stuff dries very fast (less than
30 minutes). I have used it on many outdoor and indoor project (however
not a boat) and I've never had any problems with it adhereing to
anything nor has any top coats failed to stick to it.
Can the folks who have had trouble with Kilz elaborate on whether it
was plain old Kilz or Kilz 2?
As for other exterior paint successes, I have had great luck with
Finneren-Haley Stormplate 30 latex primer and exterior latex. This has
hel-up wonderfully for me on various outdoor projects. Sadly, since
I've moved to TX I can't find any Finneren-Haley stores.
----- Steve Heil
chris crandall <crandal-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3283
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Fritz Funk wrote:recommend
> > I've heard Kilz often recommended, but notice there are several
> > different flavors of Kilz - anybody have good experiences to
> > one or the other (or a different system) ?results.
>
> I like Kilz, and have used it on half a dozen boats, with good
> I use the latex/water-based version, and am quite happy. I've alsoused
> it on my concrete walls in the basement, and it works just fine.So,
>
> Someone recently commented that Kilz won't stay on epoxy, and in my
> experience, that is wrong. However, it will not stay on epoxy blush.
> you'll have to clean the blush off before painting. But no paintsystem
> will stay on blush.instant
>
> > I'm looking for a low-toxicity paint system (kids involved), and
> > inexpensive (instant boat). Preferably quick-curing (it IS an
> > boat after all) - I've heard it said that latex house paint shoulddry
> > a week before immersion.launch
>
> This is the case. I recommend that you paint on one weekend, and
> on the next. Even kids can wait for this. Plan a party. Work thekids
> to exhaustion the weekend before, so that they don't want to get outfor a
> few days.well.
>
> > I must confess I've not yet tried latex exterior house paints on
> > boats...have had good results from oil-based opaque house stains on
> > instant boats though.
>
> Oil-based paint works reasonably well. I used off-the-shelf oil-based
> paint on my first boat, and I forget which primer. Sticks perfectly
>
>
> Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
> Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
> I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
>
>
On Mon, 28 Feb 2000, Fritz Funk wrote:
I use the latex/water-based version, and am quite happy. I've also used
it on my concrete walls in the basement, and it works just fine.
Someone recently commented that Kilz won't stay on epoxy, and in my
experience, that is wrong. However, it will not stay on epoxy blush. So,
you'll have to clean the blush off before painting. But no paint system
will stay on blush.
on the next. Even kids can wait for this. Plan a party. Work the kids
to exhaustion the weekend before, so that they don't want to get out for a
few days.
paint on my first boat, and I forget which primer. Sticks perfectly well.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> I've heard Kilz often recommended, but notice there are severalI like Kilz, and have used it on half a dozen boats, with good results.
> different flavors of Kilz - anybody have good experiences to recommend
> one or the other (or a different system) ?
I use the latex/water-based version, and am quite happy. I've also used
it on my concrete walls in the basement, and it works just fine.
Someone recently commented that Kilz won't stay on epoxy, and in my
experience, that is wrong. However, it will not stay on epoxy blush. So,
you'll have to clean the blush off before painting. But no paint system
will stay on blush.
> I'm looking for a low-toxicity paint system (kids involved), andThis is the case. I recommend that you paint on one weekend, and launch
> inexpensive (instant boat). Preferably quick-curing (it IS an instant
> boat after all) - I've heard it said that latex house paint should dry
> a week before immersion.
on the next. Even kids can wait for this. Plan a party. Work the kids
to exhaustion the weekend before, so that they don't want to get out for a
few days.
> I must confess I've not yet tried latex exterior house paints onOil-based paint works reasonably well. I used off-the-shelf oil-based
> boats...have had good results from oil-based opaque house stains on
> instant boats though.
paint on my first boat, and I forget which primer. Sticks perfectly well.
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
In a message dated 2/28/2000 4:22:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
fritzf@...writes:
<< What primer works best for the latex exterior house paints that Bolger
and others seem to favor for instant boats? (To be applied over a
partially-epoxied suface)
I've heard Kilz often recommended, but notice there are several
different flavors of Kilz - anybody have good experiences to recommend
one or the other (or a different system) ?
in places that I didn't sand as thoroughly. I called the kitz people and they
were horrified that I was using it over epoxy - and even more horrifed that I
was using it on a boat. They did say however that their own tests indicated
that it was not real good to use over epoxy. The West System people sent me
a copy of a test they did with about 8 different latex primers. Not all did
well - most did well. The only one off hand that I remember is Sherwin
Williams Pro Block - That's what I switched to for the outside of the boat
and it worked fine. Perfectly as a matter of fact.
I too wrestled with this problem of what paint to use. I think latex is a bit
softer than some of the others - (My boat has been sailing for only a month
now - so none of this is based on a test of time btw)- but I have already
discovered that touch up is real easy - I banged some paint off and just
opened the can and touched it up with a foam brush and it looks fine. I
decided on latex house paint instead of oil based house paint because the
west system literature claims that latex provided better UV protection -
which for me was a major consideration. My understanding is that it resists
mildew better too.
I used walmart porch and deck satin latex for most of the boat. When I was
buying some more primer at sherwin williams I asked the clerk if he had any
latex that was more scuff resistant ( for below the waterline) and he
recommended "All Surface Enamel" acrylic latex. So I tried it - and it seems
harder than the regular porch and deck paint that's on the rest of the boat.
It seemed almost like rustoleum in consistancy when I used it.
Though it drys to the touch quickly - none of the latex cured completely over
night - I have forgotten exactly what the paint techs ( I always call all of
the tech support people for all of these things! ;-) And I ask them every
question I can think of.) but it seems that it doesn't reach it's full cure
for about a month.
steve anderson ( martha jane Landroval)
fritzf@...writes:
<< What primer works best for the latex exterior house paints that Bolger
and others seem to favor for instant boats? (To be applied over a
partially-epoxied suface)
I've heard Kilz often recommended, but notice there are several
different flavors of Kilz - anybody have good experiences to recommend
one or the other (or a different system) ?
>>I used Kilz II on the interior - and did have some problems with it peeling
in places that I didn't sand as thoroughly. I called the kitz people and they
were horrified that I was using it over epoxy - and even more horrifed that I
was using it on a boat. They did say however that their own tests indicated
that it was not real good to use over epoxy. The West System people sent me
a copy of a test they did with about 8 different latex primers. Not all did
well - most did well. The only one off hand that I remember is Sherwin
Williams Pro Block - That's what I switched to for the outside of the boat
and it worked fine. Perfectly as a matter of fact.
I too wrestled with this problem of what paint to use. I think latex is a bit
softer than some of the others - (My boat has been sailing for only a month
now - so none of this is based on a test of time btw)- but I have already
discovered that touch up is real easy - I banged some paint off and just
opened the can and touched it up with a foam brush and it looks fine. I
decided on latex house paint instead of oil based house paint because the
west system literature claims that latex provided better UV protection -
which for me was a major consideration. My understanding is that it resists
mildew better too.
I used walmart porch and deck satin latex for most of the boat. When I was
buying some more primer at sherwin williams I asked the clerk if he had any
latex that was more scuff resistant ( for below the waterline) and he
recommended "All Surface Enamel" acrylic latex. So I tried it - and it seems
harder than the regular porch and deck paint that's on the rest of the boat.
It seemed almost like rustoleum in consistancy when I used it.
Though it drys to the touch quickly - none of the latex cured completely over
night - I have forgotten exactly what the paint techs ( I always call all of
the tech support people for all of these things! ;-) And I ask them every
question I can think of.) but it seems that it doesn't reach it's full cure
for about a month.
steve anderson ( martha jane Landroval)
Date sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:09:10 -0800
From: "Fritz Funk" <fritzf@...>
To:bolger@...
Send reply to:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Primers for latex Paints?
As an architect Fritz, I have not found latex primer very
satisfactory. The only advantage is cleaning up the brushes. We
always specify oil based primers for exterior latex finishes.
Don
From: "Fritz Funk" <fritzf@...>
To:bolger@...
Send reply to:bolger@egroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Primers for latex Paints?
As an architect Fritz, I have not found latex primer very
satisfactory. The only advantage is cleaning up the brushes. We
always specify oil based primers for exterior latex finishes.
Don
> What primer works best for the latex exterior house paints that Bolger
> and others seem to favor for instant boats? (To be applied over a
> partially-epoxied suface)
>
> I've heard Kilz often recommended, but notice there are several
> different flavors of Kilz - anybody have good experiences to recommend
> one or the other (or a different system) ?
>
> I'm looking for a low-toxicity paint system (kids involved), and
> inexpensive (instant boat). Preferably quick-curing (it IS an instant
> boat after all) - I've heard it said that latex house paint should dry
> a week before immersion.
>
> I must confess I've not yet tried latex exterior house paints on
> boats...have had good results from oil-based opaque house stains on
> instant boats though.
>
> --Fritz Funk
>fritzf@...
>
>
>
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Try this:
http://www.zinsser.com/
Their primers have a good reputation for tough jobs like painting over
old lime plaster.
Matthew
http://www.zinsser.com/
Their primers have a good reputation for tough jobs like painting over
old lime plaster.
Matthew
What primer works best for the latex exterior house paints that Bolger
and others seem to favor for instant boats? (To be applied over a
partially-epoxied suface)
I've heard Kilz often recommended, but notice there are several
different flavors of Kilz - anybody have good experiences to recommend
one or the other (or a different system) ?
I'm looking for a low-toxicity paint system (kids involved), and
inexpensive (instant boat). Preferably quick-curing (it IS an instant
boat after all) - I've heard it said that latex house paint should dry
a week before immersion.
I must confess I've not yet tried latex exterior house paints on
boats...have had good results from oil-based opaque house stains on
instant boats though.
--Fritz Funk
fritzf@...
and others seem to favor for instant boats? (To be applied over a
partially-epoxied suface)
I've heard Kilz often recommended, but notice there are several
different flavors of Kilz - anybody have good experiences to recommend
one or the other (or a different system) ?
I'm looking for a low-toxicity paint system (kids involved), and
inexpensive (instant boat). Preferably quick-curing (it IS an instant
boat after all) - I've heard it said that latex house paint should dry
a week before immersion.
I must confess I've not yet tried latex exterior house paints on
boats...have had good results from oil-based opaque house stains on
instant boats though.
--Fritz Funk
fritzf@...