RE: Windsprint vs June Bug
Sorry for the 'test' message earlier. Technical assistance was trying to figure out why
I couldn't send
email. This is what I tried to post yesterday re. WS vs JB:
I can never keep my nose out of a June Bug discussion. Ugly duckling that she is, she
becomes more
beautiful to me each time I take her out. I've car topped mine extensively, on the roof of
a Saturn
sedan and a Ford truck. Best way to carry her is right side up. As I've often mentioned,
JB's verticle
launching qualities are truly remarkable. However, four human beings on board, adult or
otherwise is
too much for sailing, though I've actually done it with six adults on board. It was sort
of a "how many
people can we cram in a phone booth" adventure. Technically we did make headway under
sail. But it
was sort of like sailing a loaded oil barge. On the other hand I've often rowed her with
four or five on
board. She handles very well if you can trim to have the fore foot just clear of the
surface, with a light
crew member at the forward oars and a weightier oars person (usually me) at mid thwart.
Bolger
claims she'll carry 1000 lbs., which I don't doubt.
For several years my wife and I have raced our JB against a whole pack of WS's at the
Mohone Bay
Wooden Boat Festival. For the most part we usually enjoy a stunning view of the shapely WS
lug sails
receeding into the sunset...way ahead of us. But we did frenquently manage to finish ahead
of one with
a blue tarp and duck tape sail. Phil Lea, on the other hand managed to leave the whole
pack in his
wake during the races of 2000. As I recall he made his JB slightly wider and carried
around 65 or 67 sq.
ft. of sail instead of the usual 59. I intend to build another one, stretched to approx.
15 ft. and carrying
around 80 sq ft in a sprit sail/sprit boom rig (see # 25, 103 Sailing Rigs) which I think
will give the WS's
a run for their money. The WS is an awesome performer under sail, esp. in a gust when she
really lives
up to the "sprint" part of the name. But for some reason I'd rather keep challenging them
with
alternative boats with smaller sails. Good luck on your choice. You're bound to have loads
of fun with
either.
jeb, cringing in awe and trembling on the shore, as relentless westerlies continue to kick
up monster
waves on the roaring Bay of Fundy
I couldn't send
email. This is what I tried to post yesterday re. WS vs JB:
I can never keep my nose out of a June Bug discussion. Ugly duckling that she is, she
becomes more
beautiful to me each time I take her out. I've car topped mine extensively, on the roof of
a Saturn
sedan and a Ford truck. Best way to carry her is right side up. As I've often mentioned,
JB's verticle
launching qualities are truly remarkable. However, four human beings on board, adult or
otherwise is
too much for sailing, though I've actually done it with six adults on board. It was sort
of a "how many
people can we cram in a phone booth" adventure. Technically we did make headway under
sail. But it
was sort of like sailing a loaded oil barge. On the other hand I've often rowed her with
four or five on
board. She handles very well if you can trim to have the fore foot just clear of the
surface, with a light
crew member at the forward oars and a weightier oars person (usually me) at mid thwart.
Bolger
claims she'll carry 1000 lbs., which I don't doubt.
For several years my wife and I have raced our JB against a whole pack of WS's at the
Mohone Bay
Wooden Boat Festival. For the most part we usually enjoy a stunning view of the shapely WS
lug sails
receeding into the sunset...way ahead of us. But we did frenquently manage to finish ahead
of one with
a blue tarp and duck tape sail. Phil Lea, on the other hand managed to leave the whole
pack in his
wake during the races of 2000. As I recall he made his JB slightly wider and carried
around 65 or 67 sq.
ft. of sail instead of the usual 59. I intend to build another one, stretched to approx.
15 ft. and carrying
around 80 sq ft in a sprit sail/sprit boom rig (see # 25, 103 Sailing Rigs) which I think
will give the WS's
a run for their money. The WS is an awesome performer under sail, esp. in a gust when she
really lives
up to the "sprint" part of the name. But for some reason I'd rather keep challenging them
with
alternative boats with smaller sails. Good luck on your choice. You're bound to have loads
of fun with
either.
jeb, cringing in awe and trembling on the shore, as relentless westerlies continue to kick
up monster
waves on the roaring Bay of Fundy
I've already worked it out: the 59 ft^2 leg o'mutton from JB will
work on Windsprint without changing anything, except that you could
go a lot lighter with the mast.
I'll second the notion for keeping the original rig, though. Just
reef it if it's too much.
work on Windsprint without changing anything, except that you could
go a lot lighter with the mast.
I'll second the notion for keeping the original rig, though. Just
reef it if it's too much.
> Ed,
>
> I have also considered putting the Instant Boats Sprit Sail on
> Windsprint. But, it seems a bit small compared to the lug sail that
> the design calls for. I also wondered if the center of effort would
> be shifted and require a change in mast placement. Perhaps someone
> else can comment on that?
>
> You might also consider the possibility that both those boats are too
> small for 2 adults and 2 growing children. I built a similar 12 foot
> boat and soon wished I had gone for something larger. Due to the
> narrow beam and the shape, the double ended sharpies seem smaller than
> the length would suggest. Just a thought but, if you are open to
> non-Bolger boats, you might look at Karl Stambaugh's Bay Skiff 15 at
> CMDBoats.com. It is a pretty simple plywood construction, it should
> row better than a sharpie and I think it would handle more crew.
>
> Good luck.
>
Ed,
I have also considered putting the Instant Boats Sprit Sail on
Windsprint. But, it seems a bit small compared to the lug sail that
the design calls for. I also wondered if the center of effort would
be shifted and require a change in mast placement. Perhaps someone
else can comment on that?
You might also consider the possibility that both those boats are too
small for 2 adults and 2 growing children. I built a similar 12 foot
boat and soon wished I had gone for something larger. Due to the
narrow beam and the shape, the double ended sharpies seem smaller
than the length would suggest. Just a thought but, if you are open
to non-Bolger boats, you might look at Karl Stambaugh's Bay Skiff 15
at CMDBoats.com. It is a pretty simple plywood construction, it
should row better than a sharpie and I think it would handle more
crew.
Good luck.
Rob
I have also considered putting the Instant Boats Sprit Sail on
Windsprint. But, it seems a bit small compared to the lug sail that
the design calls for. I also wondered if the center of effort would
be shifted and require a change in mast placement. Perhaps someone
else can comment on that?
You might also consider the possibility that both those boats are too
small for 2 adults and 2 growing children. I built a similar 12 foot
boat and soon wished I had gone for something larger. Due to the
narrow beam and the shape, the double ended sharpies seem smaller
than the length would suggest. Just a thought but, if you are open
to non-Bolger boats, you might look at Karl Stambaugh's Bay Skiff 15
at CMDBoats.com. It is a pretty simple plywood construction, it
should row better than a sharpie and I think it would handle more
crew.
Good luck.
Rob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "edekvee" <vaitonestrack@j...> wrote:
> After conducting a fairly extensive search of the archives, I still
> have a few questions about the merits of each design.
>
> Rowing: I have seen June Bug praised as a boat that rows well.
Does
> anyone have anything to say about Windsprint under oars? I plan to
> row as much as sail, and this is an importatn point for me.
>
> Sailing: I plan to sail with my family on occasion-- total weight
> about 450 pounds -- 2 adults and 2 girls 6 and 7. Can both boats
> handle this? At other times, just myself and the children. If I
> choose Windsprint, I will use the generic Instant Boat sprit. With
> either boat, the sailing location will be sheltered harbors or
tidal
> areas, mostly just to move around by sail. In any case with a
> conservative approach if all are aboard. Can we all sit and feel
> secure (in the sense of the boat not heeling too much, or giving
that
> impression to the crew!)?
>
> Would adding a few more inches of freeboard to June Bug make her
any
> better for a feeling of being "in" and stable? Or is the issue
with
> June Bug the narrower beam, and thus the seating of crew being the
> tricky part?
>
> Third, transporting: I will need to cartop (mini van) at least to
> get the boat to a place it can be left and moved with a dolly to
the
> water. Can both sit OK on top?
>
> Any feedback and suggestions are most welcome!
>
> Thanks
>
> Ed
I recently went through the same search process looking for a good
starter row/sail boat. There is no way I can fit my whole family in
one small boat (4 girls 9,7,5 and 3). I also looked at the Junebug
and came very close to building it. Eventually, I decided the $200
sailboat by DAve CArnell (which is a modified Bolger Featherwind)is
very similar to the June Bug but with a wider beam. You might
consider that one.
Good luck.
Woody (in Gig Harbor, WA)
starter row/sail boat. There is no way I can fit my whole family in
one small boat (4 girls 9,7,5 and 3). I also looked at the Junebug
and came very close to building it. Eventually, I decided the $200
sailboat by DAve CArnell (which is a modified Bolger Featherwind)is
very similar to the June Bug but with a wider beam. You might
consider that one.
Good luck.
Woody (in Gig Harbor, WA)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mark <marka@h...> wrote:
> Ed,
>
> The June Bug is a much better emulation of a real, good rowboat than
is the Windsprint.
> But both are possible. For auxiliary power, my WS hull rows better
for me with some
> rudder in the water. A good pivoting leeboard edged down a little
would do, too, if you
> followed orders and didn't have a skeg.
>
> But you may need quickly the sprawl space in the larger boat. Two
adults and all their
> gear for a well provisioned afternoon cruise loosely fills it.
Substitute kids for duffle
> and it will work in fine conditions. The luxury of the completely
open midsection is so
> pleasant, why spoil the effect with overloading?
>
> If you have light winds, I'm sure a larger sail than the Instant
Boat triangle would be
> useful, especially with a full crew. With minimum attention to the
centers of sail and
> leeboard you could have a shorter, balanced lug than specified. Or
use the standard one.
> They're said to sometimes sail better reefed anyway. Before I got
hooked on electric power
> for mine, I thought the Zephyr's 80 sq. ft. lateen miight be a good
compromise.
>
> Raising the sheer of the JB more than about a half an inch rips up
the Bolger sheet use diagram.
>
> You might also consider Zephyr itself. The extra length add both
room and stability to a
> narrow boat. Whatever it weighs, it'll be the easiest of the three
to launch atop the
> minivan. Some say the lateen rig is good to learn to sail with.
>
> Best wishes,
> Mark
>
>
> edekvee wrote:
> >
> > After conducting a fairly extensive search of the archives, I
still
> > have a few questions about the merits of each design.
> >
> > Rowing:
> > Sailing:
> > freeboard to June Bug
> > Third, transporting:
Ed,
ps
Dave Thompson just announce his JB site. The pix give good insight into the human scale.
http://www.geocities.com/junebugnj2003/
ps
Dave Thompson just announce his JB site. The pix give good insight into the human scale.
http://www.geocities.com/junebugnj2003/
Ed,
The June Bug is a much better emulation of a real, good rowboat than is the Windsprint.
But both are possible. For auxiliary power, my WS hull rows better for me with some
rudder in the water. A good pivoting leeboard edged down a little would do, too, if you
followed orders and didn't have a skeg.
But you may need quickly the sprawl space in the larger boat. Two adults and all their
gear for a well provisioned afternoon cruise loosely fills it. Substitute kids for duffle
and it will work in fine conditions. The luxury of the completely open midsection is so
pleasant, why spoil the effect with overloading?
If you have light winds, I'm sure a larger sail than the Instant Boat triangle would be
useful, especially with a full crew. With minimum attention to the centers of sail and
leeboard you could have a shorter, balanced lug than specified. Or use the standard one.
They're said to sometimes sail better reefed anyway. Before I got hooked on electric power
for mine, I thought the Zephyr's 80 sq. ft. lateen miight be a good compromise.
Raising the sheer of the JB more than about a half an inch rips up the Bolger sheet use diagram.
You might also consider Zephyr itself. The extra length add both room and stability to a
narrow boat. Whatever it weighs, it'll be the easiest of the three to launch atop the
minivan. Some say the lateen rig is good to learn to sail with.
Best wishes,
Mark
edekvee wrote:
The June Bug is a much better emulation of a real, good rowboat than is the Windsprint.
But both are possible. For auxiliary power, my WS hull rows better for me with some
rudder in the water. A good pivoting leeboard edged down a little would do, too, if you
followed orders and didn't have a skeg.
But you may need quickly the sprawl space in the larger boat. Two adults and all their
gear for a well provisioned afternoon cruise loosely fills it. Substitute kids for duffle
and it will work in fine conditions. The luxury of the completely open midsection is so
pleasant, why spoil the effect with overloading?
If you have light winds, I'm sure a larger sail than the Instant Boat triangle would be
useful, especially with a full crew. With minimum attention to the centers of sail and
leeboard you could have a shorter, balanced lug than specified. Or use the standard one.
They're said to sometimes sail better reefed anyway. Before I got hooked on electric power
for mine, I thought the Zephyr's 80 sq. ft. lateen miight be a good compromise.
Raising the sheer of the JB more than about a half an inch rips up the Bolger sheet use diagram.
You might also consider Zephyr itself. The extra length add both room and stability to a
narrow boat. Whatever it weighs, it'll be the easiest of the three to launch atop the
minivan. Some say the lateen rig is good to learn to sail with.
Best wishes,
Mark
edekvee wrote:
>
> After conducting a fairly extensive search of the archives, I still
> have a few questions about the merits of each design.
>
> Rowing:
> Sailing:
> freeboard to June Bug
> Third, transporting:
----- Original Message -----
From: "edekvee" <vaitonestrack@...>
| After conducting a fairly extensive search of the archives, I still
| have a few questions about the merits of each design.
|
| Rowing: I have seen June Bug praised as a boat that rows well. Does
| anyone have anything to say about Windsprint under oars?
As a rowing boat, Windsprint is a good sailboat. Problem is it doesn't carry
well.
|
| Sailing: I plan to sail with my family on occasion-- total weight
| about 450 pounds -- 2 adults and 2 girls 6 and 7. Can both boats
| handle this? At other times, just myself and the children. If I
| choose Windsprint, I will use the generic Instant Boat sprit. With
| either boat, the sailing location will be sheltered harbors or tidal
| areas, mostly just to move around by sail. In any case with a
| conservative approach if all are aboard. Can we all sit and feel
| secure (in the sense of the boat not heeling too much, or giving that
| impression to the crew!)?
That's a big crew for either boat. It's also way too much for JB. They both
also pretty small. If you have an adventurous crew, they'll be ok, if they
are timid neither will be.
| Would adding a few more inches of freeboard to June Bug make her any
| better for a feeling of being "in" and stable? Or is the issue with
| June Bug the narrower beam, and thus the seating of crew being the
| tricky part?
I doubt it. It would also be very ugly, and June Bug can't stand any more
ugly.
|
| Third, transporting: I will need to cartop (mini van) at least to
| get the boat to a place it can be left and moved with a dolly to the
| water. Can both sit OK on top?
It can be done, but it's not easy. My Windsprint weighed over 100 lbs.
That's a lot for any cartop carrier, not to mention a lot to load. June Bug
may be easier, but I don't know.
| Any feedback and suggestions are most welcome!
|
| Thanks
|
| Ed
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
After conducting a fairly extensive search of the archives, I still
have a few questions about the merits of each design.
Rowing: I have seen June Bug praised as a boat that rows well. Does
anyone have anything to say about Windsprint under oars? I plan to
row as much as sail, and this is an importatn point for me.
Sailing: I plan to sail with my family on occasion-- total weight
about 450 pounds -- 2 adults and 2 girls 6 and 7. Can both boats
handle this? At other times, just myself and the children. If I
choose Windsprint, I will use the generic Instant Boat sprit. With
either boat, the sailing location will be sheltered harbors or tidal
areas, mostly just to move around by sail. In any case with a
conservative approach if all are aboard. Can we all sit and feel
secure (in the sense of the boat not heeling too much, or giving that
impression to the crew!)?
Would adding a few more inches of freeboard to June Bug make her any
better for a feeling of being "in" and stable? Or is the issue with
June Bug the narrower beam, and thus the seating of crew being the
tricky part?
Third, transporting: I will need to cartop (mini van) at least to
get the boat to a place it can be left and moved with a dolly to the
water. Can both sit OK on top?
Any feedback and suggestions are most welcome!
Thanks
Ed
have a few questions about the merits of each design.
Rowing: I have seen June Bug praised as a boat that rows well. Does
anyone have anything to say about Windsprint under oars? I plan to
row as much as sail, and this is an importatn point for me.
Sailing: I plan to sail with my family on occasion-- total weight
about 450 pounds -- 2 adults and 2 girls 6 and 7. Can both boats
handle this? At other times, just myself and the children. If I
choose Windsprint, I will use the generic Instant Boat sprit. With
either boat, the sailing location will be sheltered harbors or tidal
areas, mostly just to move around by sail. In any case with a
conservative approach if all are aboard. Can we all sit and feel
secure (in the sense of the boat not heeling too much, or giving that
impression to the crew!)?
Would adding a few more inches of freeboard to June Bug make her any
better for a feeling of being "in" and stable? Or is the issue with
June Bug the narrower beam, and thus the seating of crew being the
tricky part?
Third, transporting: I will need to cartop (mini van) at least to
get the boat to a place it can be left and moved with a dolly to the
water. Can both sit OK on top?
Any feedback and suggestions are most welcome!
Thanks
Ed