Re: Common Sense Boats... Idaho - Got plans :(
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Maximo Pieretti <maxpieretti@h...>
wrote:
Dear Maximo!
I am glad to hear that you calmed down, you can´t really compare the
Surfscoter plans with the Idaho plans, I think that the Idaho is
very informative, yes, maybe a little unclear, but OK to built the
handsome Idaho, pls. keep us updated with your building procees, I
am sure that we are many there are looking foreward to further from
you.
Good luck from Denmark.
Claus
wrote:
Dear Maximo!
I am glad to hear that you calmed down, you can´t really compare the
Surfscoter plans with the Idaho plans, I think that the Idaho is
very informative, yes, maybe a little unclear, but OK to built the
handsome Idaho, pls. keep us updated with your building procees, I
am sure that we are many there are looking foreward to further from
you.
Good luck from Denmark.
Claus
> Hello Claus: yes, I cleared up my mind and calm down a little. TheBernie s
> descriptions is very good indeed. But I still think that for $95similar
> presentation of the plans could be better.
>
> Devlin Surfscoter is beatiful also. Are the plans of this boat in
> presentation than Idaho?building in
>
> I did not get started with Idaho yet. I am planning to start
> february 2004. I am looking for a building site now. The clubdoesn t have
> covered space (also the floor is grass). I could fix the ceilingwith some
> kind of plastic canvas. But I don t know about the floor.advice in
>
> I would set a website with my proyect in order to get feedback and
> the construction. Best regards, Máximo.
Hello Claus: yes, I cleared up my mind and calm down a little. The Bernie s
descriptions is very good indeed. But I still think that for $95
presentation of the plans could be better.
Devlin Surfscoter is beatiful also. Are the plans of this boat in similar
presentation than Idaho?
I did not get started with Idaho yet. I am planning to start building in
february 2004. I am looking for a building site now. The club doesn t have
covered space (also the floor is grass). I could fix the ceiling with some
kind of plastic canvas. But I don t know about the floor.
I would set a website with my proyect in order to get feedback and advice in
the construction. Best regards, Máximo.
descriptions is very good indeed. But I still think that for $95
presentation of the plans could be better.
Devlin Surfscoter is beatiful also. Are the plans of this boat in similar
presentation than Idaho?
I did not get started with Idaho yet. I am planning to start building in
february 2004. I am looking for a building site now. The club doesn t have
covered space (also the floor is grass). I could fix the ceiling with some
kind of plastic canvas. But I don t know about the floor.
I would set a website with my proyect in order to get feedback and advice in
the construction. Best regards, Máximo.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "promaxsistemas" <maxpieretti@h...>
wrote:
I hope you have cleared up your mind regarding the Idaho plans, I
have plans for 50+ designs Idaho from CDS are not worser or better
than other plan sets, the description on building the Idaho written
by Bernie is just great. In fact I did cut the two layer bottom on
that handsom boat (I don´t understand that not more are built) but
turned to a Devlin Surfscoter 25 (you can see the finish boat in
Duckworksmagazine) meanwhile the Idaho spirit is over me again, so
maybe I will continue the work, did you get started on your boat. I
am sure that many people really wants to follow the project in
procees, I am one of them. All the best to you and Idaho.
Claus - Denmark
wrote:
I hope you have cleared up your mind regarding the Idaho plans, I
have plans for 50+ designs Idaho from CDS are not worser or better
than other plan sets, the description on building the Idaho written
by Bernie is just great. In fact I did cut the two layer bottom on
that handsom boat (I don´t understand that not more are built) but
turned to a Devlin Surfscoter 25 (you can see the finish boat in
Duckworksmagazine) meanwhile the Idaho spirit is over me again, so
maybe I will continue the work, did you get started on your boat. I
am sure that many people really wants to follow the project in
procees, I am one of them. All the best to you and Idaho.
Claus - Denmark
> Yesterday mi Idaho plans arrived. First I was very happy, butI
> when I open the envelope... It supposed to be 3 blue prints, there
> are only 2 and 10 A4 photocopies pages of a poor explanation
> with a few very ilegible photos. I never ordered plans before, but
> was expecting a little more than this for u$s 95.I
>
> The blue prints are big photocopies from an old dirty original. It
> has hand-write explanations signed by "Phil" for a "Bernard K.
> Woldfard" (I asume the original buyer of this plans) I don t think
> could be able to build my Idaho just looking at this plans. I am
> very disapointed.
>
> u$s 95 is a lot of money for me, and in my country (is half a
> average monthly salary for most of us). I didn t know previously
> about all the complaints for CSB. I wish I hear them before
> buying.
>
> I didn t buy directly from Bolger & Friends address, because they
> don t seem to have email or website. International calls for fax
> are very expensive from here. I don t know what to do...
Maximo, as others have mentioned the building process
will become much clearer once you have looked at the
Payson "instant boats" book. I have a spare copy
which I would be happy to send you, if you give me
your address. Beyond that, this web site is full of
folks who have built similar boats who will be happy
to talk you through any problems. Your English seems
to be perfect, but if technical terms cause any
difficulty in communication, my wife speaks and writes
pretty good Spanish, and would be happy to translate
for me. These epoxy/ply boats are really not
difficult to build, even from badly reproduced plans,
and since you have built a canoe already you will not
have any trouble with the Idaho. Please let me know
if I can be of help. Sam
--- promaxsistemas <maxpieretti@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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will become much clearer once you have looked at the
Payson "instant boats" book. I have a spare copy
which I would be happy to send you, if you give me
your address. Beyond that, this web site is full of
folks who have built similar boats who will be happy
to talk you through any problems. Your English seems
to be perfect, but if technical terms cause any
difficulty in communication, my wife speaks and writes
pretty good Spanish, and would be happy to translate
for me. These epoxy/ply boats are really not
difficult to build, even from badly reproduced plans,
and since you have built a canoe already you will not
have any trouble with the Idaho. Please let me know
if I can be of help. Sam
--- promaxsistemas <maxpieretti@...> wrote:
> Yesterday mi Idaho plans arrived. First I was very__________________________________
> happy, but
> when I open the envelope... It supposed to be 3 blue
> prints, there
> are only 2 and 10 A4 photocopies pages of a poor
> explanation
> with a few very ilegible photos. I never ordered
> plans before, but I
> was expecting a little more than this for u$s 95.
>
> The blue prints are big photocopies from an old
> dirty original. It
> has hand-write explanations signed by "Phil" for a
> "Bernard K.
> Woldfard" (I asume the original buyer of this plans)
> I don t think I
> could be able to build my Idaho just looking at this
> plans. I am
> very disapointed.
>
> u$s 95 is a lot of money for me, and in my country
> (is half a
> average monthly salary for most of us). I didn t
> know previously
> about all the complaints for CSB. I wish I hear them
> before
> buying.
>
> I didn t buy directly from Bolger & Friends address,
> because they
> don t seem to have email or website. International
> calls for fax
> are very expensive from here. I don t know what to
> do...
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
>I believe the Idaho is build from the botttom up.
> The general order of business will be
> to build the transom, the interior bulkheads,
> and then mount and brace these carefully
> into correct position and alignment.
>
> Then build the sides and attach them to
> the bulkheads. Then attach the bottom
> to the sides. Turn it over.
>
> Then build the cabin walls and roof.
>
> Launch.
First the bottom, then chine logs. then sides with stem and transom.
There are no bulkheads ( the cabin ends will serve that function
later) so you may want to have a few braces to square up the sides.
Take your side length measurements from the true length profile -
the longer one. Same with the bottom.
Charles
--- promaxsistemas wrote:
think positive thoughts, regroup.
Study the plans, and build it in
your mind first. A lot of people
benefit from building a scale
model using cardboard first.
It is common for the plans to not
have too many dimensions written out
in numbers. You need to find a bevel
square and an 'Architect's Scale'.
The Payson books "Instant Boats" and
"Build the New Instant Boats" have an
excellent chapter describing how to use
an Architect's Scale.
Go to www.Amazon.com and use their "see
inside the book" feature and read the
first few chapters of _Build the New Instant
Boats_.
If you need to know a dimension or measure
a bevel angle, measure it off the plans,
which are drawn to precisely to scale.
See in the corner of the plan, something
like 1/2" = 1'-0" or 1" = 1'0"
The general order of business will be
to build the transom, the interior bulkheads,
and then mount and brace these carefully
into correct position and alignment.
Then build the sides and attach them to
the bulkheads. Then attach the bottom
to the sides. Turn it over.
Then build the cabin walls and roof.
Launch.
If you can maintain a positive attitude
this will be fun.
> Idaho plans arrived.You can do it! Take a deep breath,
> I don t think I
> could be able to build my
> Idaho just looking at this
> plans. I am
> very disappointed.
think positive thoughts, regroup.
Study the plans, and build it in
your mind first. A lot of people
benefit from building a scale
model using cardboard first.
It is common for the plans to not
have too many dimensions written out
in numbers. You need to find a bevel
square and an 'Architect's Scale'.
The Payson books "Instant Boats" and
"Build the New Instant Boats" have an
excellent chapter describing how to use
an Architect's Scale.
Go to www.Amazon.com and use their "see
inside the book" feature and read the
first few chapters of _Build the New Instant
Boats_.
If you need to know a dimension or measure
a bevel angle, measure it off the plans,
which are drawn to precisely to scale.
See in the corner of the plan, something
like 1/2" = 1'-0" or 1" = 1'0"
The general order of business will be
to build the transom, the interior bulkheads,
and then mount and brace these carefully
into correct position and alignment.
Then build the sides and attach them to
the bulkheads. Then attach the bottom
to the sides. Turn it over.
Then build the cabin walls and roof.
Launch.
If you can maintain a positive attitude
this will be fun.
Yesterday mi Idaho plans arrived. First I was very happy, but
when I open the envelope... It supposed to be 3 blue prints, there
are only 2 and 10 A4 photocopies pages of a poor explanation
with a few very ilegible photos. I never ordered plans before, but I
was expecting a little more than this for u$s 95.
The blue prints are big photocopies from an old dirty original. It
has hand-write explanations signed by "Phil" for a "Bernard K.
Woldfard" (I asume the original buyer of this plans) I don t think I
could be able to build my Idaho just looking at this plans. I am
very disapointed.
u$s 95 is a lot of money for me, and in my country (is half a
average monthly salary for most of us). I didn t know previously
about all the complaints for CSB. I wish I hear them before
buying.
I didn t buy directly from Bolger & Friends address, because they
don t seem to have email or website. International calls for fax
are very expensive from here. I don t know what to do...
when I open the envelope... It supposed to be 3 blue prints, there
are only 2 and 10 A4 photocopies pages of a poor explanation
with a few very ilegible photos. I never ordered plans before, but I
was expecting a little more than this for u$s 95.
The blue prints are big photocopies from an old dirty original. It
has hand-write explanations signed by "Phil" for a "Bernard K.
Woldfard" (I asume the original buyer of this plans) I don t think I
could be able to build my Idaho just looking at this plans. I am
very disapointed.
u$s 95 is a lot of money for me, and in my country (is half a
average monthly salary for most of us). I didn t know previously
about all the complaints for CSB. I wish I hear them before
buying.
I didn t buy directly from Bolger & Friends address, because they
don t seem to have email or website. International calls for fax
are very expensive from here. I don t know what to do...
Hi Nels -
If your interested in certain Bolger study plans and his design & building articles contact Bob Hicks at MAIB. If the boat you want was in MAIB he will sell you a copy of the article or if he has extra will send the whole issue for just $5.00.
I'm getting ready to build PB&F 23' power sharpie "Champlain" and was able to get two MAIB articles from Bob that were published several years ago. You can see what designs were published in MAIB and what issue they were in by going to the web site.
Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If your interested in certain Bolger study plans and his design & building articles contact Bob Hicks at MAIB. If the boat you want was in MAIB he will sell you a copy of the article or if he has extra will send the whole issue for just $5.00.
I'm getting ready to build PB&F 23' power sharpie "Champlain" and was able to get two MAIB articles from Bob that were published several years ago. You can see what designs were published in MAIB and what issue they were in by going to the web site.
Aloha - Jack Spoering - Ft Lauderdale, Fl
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Nels wrote:
be a 'great diservice to themselves' only if they were
trying to maximize their marketing, but I realize that
they might not want the bother of too many customers
pestering them so much. Life is simpler that way.
FWIW: here is a link to BDQ#7 'study plans'
of Idaho [and Badger!], I have just mailed away.
http://tinyurl.com/uvxv
From:
www.woodenboatstore.com
> I also feel PCB&F are doing a great diservice toI, too, wish study plans were available. It would
> themselves by not supplying study plans in addition
> to complete plans.
be a 'great diservice to themselves' only if they were
trying to maximize their marketing, but I realize that
they might not want the bother of too many customers
pestering them so much. Life is simpler that way.
FWIW: here is a link to BDQ#7 'study plans'
of Idaho [and Badger!], I have just mailed away.
http://tinyurl.com/uvxv
From:
www.woodenboatstore.com
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "promaxsistemas" <maxpieretti@h...>
wrote:
purchasing plans, since I have had some correspondence with both CSD
and PCB&F over the previous month or two.
I currently have a MICRO as well as a set of unused plans I purchased
from Elrowe many years ago. I was planning on using them for to build
a Navigator.
However I then considered that the added four feet in length of a
Navigator verson of LONG MICRO would allow for some galley space and
a full sized double bunk. So my project is to build a model this
winter. I have also considered a ply version of COLONEL HASLER.
I contacted PCB&F with my plan as I have heard there were several
structural and equipment changes when LONG MICRO was designed. (It is
a fully re-done design based on the MICRO) I was informed that there
are no plans to develop a NAVIGATOR version of LM. But a plywood
version of COLONEL HASLER is a possibility at some point. I was also
told that they are fully booked for the foreseeable future. Cost of
LM plans are $200 (US) and the MICRO NAVIGATOR conversion $50 (US).
Jerry Estes is selling LM plans for $94 (US) and actually all I
really wanted for now was a set of study plans. So I decided to order
them as study plans to build a model and would order the PCB&F plans
if I decide to build. Because there are no study plans available I
felt this to be justified.
I talked to Jerry by phone and he also offered me a set of trailer
plans free if I promised to send him photos of the completed boat on
the trailer.
Okay - here is what happened. The plans arrived in a timely fashion.
They are copies of the original plans and some of it is very
difficult to read. The written instructions are almost useless
because the text is all broken in unchronological order and some
could be missing. Looks like a file/printer problem maybe. The
trailer plans were not included.
It is my understanding that CSD does not have permission to copy or
sell the plans since the royalties have never been paid and it seems
never will be.
Therefor I would be very leery ordering plans from a source where
there is no designer support and very poor quality control over the
material. I believe I have as much legal right to copy and sell
Bolger plans as CSD has.
I also feel PCB&F are doing a great diservice to themselves by not
supplying study plans in addition to complete plans. Perhaps they
feel that by publishing articles in MAIB that they fullfill this
requirement, but there are people all over the world who do not have
a subscription to MAIB or are able to obtain copies of the books Mr.
Bolger has written.
Dynamite Payson provides a wonderful service in my opinion, but he is
very limited to the number of designs he sells - and cetainly none of
the newer and bigger designs.
As far as I know, Payson is the only person PCB&F recognize as plan
sellers.
Nels
wrote:
> Thanks Bruce and all for your answers. Either the people at CSBI
> are reading this group, or just good luck, I finally got my answer.
> must wait now for 4-6 weeks !!! Aahhhhhh !!!I would just like to add some observations on the above subject of
purchasing plans, since I have had some correspondence with both CSD
and PCB&F over the previous month or two.
I currently have a MICRO as well as a set of unused plans I purchased
from Elrowe many years ago. I was planning on using them for to build
a Navigator.
However I then considered that the added four feet in length of a
Navigator verson of LONG MICRO would allow for some galley space and
a full sized double bunk. So my project is to build a model this
winter. I have also considered a ply version of COLONEL HASLER.
I contacted PCB&F with my plan as I have heard there were several
structural and equipment changes when LONG MICRO was designed. (It is
a fully re-done design based on the MICRO) I was informed that there
are no plans to develop a NAVIGATOR version of LM. But a plywood
version of COLONEL HASLER is a possibility at some point. I was also
told that they are fully booked for the foreseeable future. Cost of
LM plans are $200 (US) and the MICRO NAVIGATOR conversion $50 (US).
Jerry Estes is selling LM plans for $94 (US) and actually all I
really wanted for now was a set of study plans. So I decided to order
them as study plans to build a model and would order the PCB&F plans
if I decide to build. Because there are no study plans available I
felt this to be justified.
I talked to Jerry by phone and he also offered me a set of trailer
plans free if I promised to send him photos of the completed boat on
the trailer.
Okay - here is what happened. The plans arrived in a timely fashion.
They are copies of the original plans and some of it is very
difficult to read. The written instructions are almost useless
because the text is all broken in unchronological order and some
could be missing. Looks like a file/printer problem maybe. The
trailer plans were not included.
It is my understanding that CSD does not have permission to copy or
sell the plans since the royalties have never been paid and it seems
never will be.
Therefor I would be very leery ordering plans from a source where
there is no designer support and very poor quality control over the
material. I believe I have as much legal right to copy and sell
Bolger plans as CSD has.
I also feel PCB&F are doing a great diservice to themselves by not
supplying study plans in addition to complete plans. Perhaps they
feel that by publishing articles in MAIB that they fullfill this
requirement, but there are people all over the world who do not have
a subscription to MAIB or are able to obtain copies of the books Mr.
Bolger has written.
Dynamite Payson provides a wonderful service in my opinion, but he is
very limited to the number of designs he sells - and cetainly none of
the newer and bigger designs.
As far as I know, Payson is the only person PCB&F recognize as plan
sellers.
Nels
--- Jeff wrote:
The coolest thing about Idaho, is that
is it wheelchair accessible. I don't
go to boatshows, but I suspect that none
of the factory boats [less that $1M] are
wheelchair accessible.
> Sneakeasy, Idaho, and Wyoming,Champlain is 22'6" x 7'11"', about 3:1 ratio.
> he likes to keep it to a 6:1 ratio.
The coolest thing about Idaho, is that
is it wheelchair accessible. I don't
go to boatshows, but I suspect that none
of the factory boats [less that $1M] are
wheelchair accessible.
On his power boats with a flat run like the Sneakeasy, Idaho, and Wyoming,
he likes to keep it to a 6:1 ratio.
Jeff
he likes to keep it to a 6:1 ratio.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Common Sense Boats... Idaho - Got response
> --- John Spoering wrote:
> > Say, if Idaho is too much boat look at
> > Bolger 2 & 3 - there is a lot of info on
> > "Champlain", a power sharpie that has
> > everything but the long length.
>
> I like Champlain too, though it is a
> much different boat than Idaho.
>
> The biggest difference is that Idaho is
> a planing boat with a flat bottom and
> Champlain is a displacement boat with
> a fuller curved bottom. Idaho would be
> a much faster boat than Champlain, which
> would be limited by it's hull speed.
>
> Also, with all it's interior finish work,
> I bet that a Champlain could take more time
> to build than the longer but simpler Idaho.
>
> I forget where I read it, but Bolger's
> definition of 'sharpie' is measured by
> the ratio of beam to length. Does anybody
> remember what that ratio is?
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--- John Spoering wrote:
much different boat than Idaho.
The biggest difference is that Idaho is
a planing boat with a flat bottom and
Champlain is a displacement boat with
a fuller curved bottom. Idaho would be
a much faster boat than Champlain, which
would be limited by it's hull speed.
Also, with all it's interior finish work,
I bet that a Champlain could take more time
to build than the longer but simpler Idaho.
I forget where I read it, but Bolger's
definition of 'sharpie' is measured by
the ratio of beam to length. Does anybody
remember what that ratio is?
> Say, if Idaho is too much boat look atI like Champlain too, though it is a
> Bolger 2 & 3 - there is a lot of info on
> "Champlain", a power sharpie that has
> everything but the long length.
much different boat than Idaho.
The biggest difference is that Idaho is
a planing boat with a flat bottom and
Champlain is a displacement boat with
a fuller curved bottom. Idaho would be
a much faster boat than Champlain, which
would be limited by it's hull speed.
Also, with all it's interior finish work,
I bet that a Champlain could take more time
to build than the longer but simpler Idaho.
I forget where I read it, but Bolger's
definition of 'sharpie' is measured by
the ratio of beam to length. Does anybody
remember what that ratio is?
I've read about those days. Many of those ships had significant rot before
they were even launched.
Besides, epoxy gives us "wood butchers" the capability of making strong
joints in limited time.
The Rio Plata estuary between Buenos Aires and Montevideo is a large body of
water. I'd prefer to have good structural integrity before getting that far
from land.
Máximo, If you know Ricaro Araoz, say hello for me. If you don't, he might
be worth looking up. He's a fellow resident of Buenos Aires and at one time
we were both planning to build a "Badger," Jay Benford's 34' dory for
liveaboards. (He got caught in your economic crash and I was overtaken by
old age.) Ricardo spent several months in England attending a boatbuilding
school there and might have some insight into building sites and material
suppliers in your area.
Roger Derby
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
they were even launched.
Besides, epoxy gives us "wood butchers" the capability of making strong
joints in limited time.
The Rio Plata estuary between Buenos Aires and Montevideo is a large body of
water. I'd prefer to have good structural integrity before getting that far
from land.
Máximo, If you know Ricaro Araoz, say hello for me. If you don't, he might
be worth looking up. He's a fellow resident of Buenos Aires and at one time
we were both planning to build a "Badger," Jay Benford's 34' dory for
liveaboards. (He got caught in your economic crash and I was overtaken by
old age.) Ricardo spent several months in England attending a boatbuilding
school there and might have some insight into building sites and material
suppliers in your area.
Roger Derby
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
<snip>
> For what it is worth, I bet an Idaho
> would float for many years with only
> paint for protection. How many centuries
> were boats being built before epoxy was
> invented?
Hi Argentina -
Say, if Idaho is too much boat look at Bolger 2 & 3 - there is a lot of info on "Champlain", a power sharpie that has everything but the long length.
John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Say, if Idaho is too much boat look at Bolger 2 & 3 - there is a lot of info on "Champlain", a power sharpie that has everything but the long length.
John
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- promaxsistema wrote:
polyester resin, on one use. Still,
it is very stinky, [brain damage?]
At that time, I found it to be half
the price of epoxy. Ever since cheap
epoxy has become available, I have
switched to epoxy and don't want
to look back.
If you can wait 4 weeks for plans,
maybe importing some epoxy might be
worth trying. I buy from www.raka.com
and I don't know if they ship international.
You also might buy it by the drum and
try making a business of reselling it
in Argentina.
For what it is worth, I bet an Idaho
would float for many years with only
paint for protection. How many centuries
were boats being built before epoxy was
invented?
> epoxy resin (veryI actually had good experience with
> expensive). What is
> the diference with
> polyester resin?
polyester resin, on one use. Still,
it is very stinky, [brain damage?]
At that time, I found it to be half
the price of epoxy. Ever since cheap
epoxy has become available, I have
switched to epoxy and don't want
to look back.
If you can wait 4 weeks for plans,
maybe importing some epoxy might be
worth trying. I buy from www.raka.com
and I don't know if they ship international.
You also might buy it by the drum and
try making a business of reselling it
in Argentina.
For what it is worth, I bet an Idaho
would float for many years with only
paint for protection. How many centuries
were boats being built before epoxy was
invented?
Well, epoxy versus polyester is an old debate. The question really is: how
long do you plan to keep the boat? How much investment are you wanting to
make? For a quick and disposable boat, polyester is excellent; for strength
and rot resistance, epoxy is the choice. An Idaho is something of an
investment (for me, at least), but you will be best-placed to judge how much
you want to spend.
Bruce is correct: the chine logs on Idaho are internal.
David Romasco
_____
From: promaxsistemas [mailto:maxpieretti@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:56 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Common Sense Boats... Idaho - Got response
Yes, there is good wood in Argentina. I plan to use good quality
wood. In the canoe I used epoxy resin (very expensive). What is
the diference with polyester resin? It is a lot cheaper... How long
do you think polyester resin will keep rots out? Also I plan to
keep the boat in a trailer if posible.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
long do you plan to keep the boat? How much investment are you wanting to
make? For a quick and disposable boat, polyester is excellent; for strength
and rot resistance, epoxy is the choice. An Idaho is something of an
investment (for me, at least), but you will be best-placed to judge how much
you want to spend.
Bruce is correct: the chine logs on Idaho are internal.
David Romasco
_____
From: promaxsistemas [mailto:maxpieretti@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:56 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Common Sense Boats... Idaho - Got response
> You probably want to spend some effortThanks for your advice.
> choosing wood that rots slowly and if possible
> putting epoxy or polyester resin and fiberglass
> cloth on the wood. This depends on your idea
> of how long you want the boat to last.
>
> Is there good wood in Argentina?
Yes, there is good wood in Argentina. I plan to use good quality
wood. In the canoe I used epoxy resin (very expensive). What is
the diference with polyester resin? It is a lot cheaper... How long
do you think polyester resin will keep rots out? Also I plan to
keep the boat in a trailer if posible.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12ctact3q/M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroup
web/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1068764182/A=1524963/R=0/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi
-bin/autoredir?camp=556&lineid=3614674&prop=egroupweb&pos=HM>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1524963/rand=832489420>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> You probably want to spend some effortThanks for your advice.
> choosing wood that rots slowly and if possible
> putting epoxy or polyester resin and fiberglass
> cloth on the wood. This depends on your idea
> of how long you want the boat to last.
>
> Is there good wood in Argentina?
Yes, there is good wood in Argentina. I plan to use good quality
wood. In the canoe I used epoxy resin (very expensive). What is
the diference with polyester resin? It is a lot cheaper... How long
do you think polyester resin will keep rots out? Also I plan to
keep the boat in a trailer if posible.
--- M�ximo wrote:
Idaho belongs so a class of Bolger 'power
sharpies' that come in a range of sizes.
Sneakeasy, smaller and more common, Wyoming
bigger and only one or two were made, and
Illinois which is huge and has never been
built.
I know of only the one Idaho built by Bernie
Wolfard, which was sold a few years back.
Though I bet there are more.
I am familiar with Idaho, only from the
Common Sense Design's catalogue. Looking
recently, I see that it was also published
in Boat Design Quarterly issue #7, but I
haven't read that (yet!).
I suspect that Idaho uses interior chine logs,
and should be easy to build [except it is big].
be just perfect!
My advice is to not focus on getting
everything perfect, but to rush ahead
and build quickly. Fix defects later,
if at all.
You probably want to spend some effort
choosing wood that rots slowly and if possible
putting epoxy or polyester resin and fiberglass
cloth on the wood. This depends on your idea
of how long you want the boat to last.
Is there good wood in Argentina?
> I didn t find any websiteNo.
> about building Idaho (do you know any?).
Idaho belongs so a class of Bolger 'power
sharpies' that come in a range of sizes.
Sneakeasy, smaller and more common, Wyoming
bigger and only one or two were made, and
Illinois which is huge and has never been
built.
I know of only the one Idaho built by Bernie
Wolfard, which was sold a few years back.
Though I bet there are more.
I am familiar with Idaho, only from the
Common Sense Design's catalogue. Looking
recently, I see that it was also published
in Boat Design Quarterly issue #7, but I
haven't read that (yet!).
I suspect that Idaho uses interior chine logs,
and should be easy to build [except it is big].
> Argentina... in the "delta"...Idaho, with its flat bottom, should
> lots of semi-protected small rivers.
be just perfect!
> Any tip, advice or helpThere is lots of advice around here!
My advice is to not focus on getting
everything perfect, but to rush ahead
and build quickly. Fix defects later,
if at all.
You probably want to spend some effort
choosing wood that rots slowly and if possible
putting epoxy or polyester resin and fiberglass
cloth on the wood. This depends on your idea
of how long you want the boat to last.
Is there good wood in Argentina?
Thanks Bruce and all for your answers. Either the people at CSB
are reading this group, or just good luck, I finally got my answer. I
must wait now for 4-6 weeks !!! Aahhhhhh !!!
the "stitch and glue" or "tack and tape" method. I expect to build
my Idaho in the same way. I didn t find any website about
building Idaho (do you know any?). On the other hand, I found
lots of Sneakeasy.
I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I plan to use it in the "delta" of
the "Rio de la Plata". Inside the "delta" zone the are lots of
semi-protected small rivers. The only problems are the waves
generated from small merchant ships.
Also I would like to use it to travel to Uruguay, crossing "Rio de la
Plata" but I must be sure about the weather, because is a very
open and wide river.
Any tip, advice or help about building this boat is apreciated.
Thanks, regards, Máximo.
are reading this group, or just good luck, I finally got my answer. I
must wait now for 4-6 weeks !!! Aahhhhhh !!!
> How do you plan to build itThe only experience I have is when I build a 4 meter canoe with
> and how/where do you plan to use it?
the "stitch and glue" or "tack and tape" method. I expect to build
my Idaho in the same way. I didn t find any website about
building Idaho (do you know any?). On the other hand, I found
lots of Sneakeasy.
I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I plan to use it in the "delta" of
the "Rio de la Plata". Inside the "delta" zone the are lots of
semi-protected small rivers. The only problems are the waves
generated from small merchant ships.
Also I would like to use it to travel to Uruguay, crossing "Rio de la
Plata" but I must be sure about the weather, because is a very
open and wide river.
Any tip, advice or help about building this boat is apreciated.
Thanks, regards, Máximo.
---FrBobLynn@...wrote:
almost fifty years, of every size and type.
There is no website. The best place to start is to
read his book _Boats With An Open Mind_.
http://tinyurl.com/uqzq
Also, Phil Bolger & Friends publish an article every
two weeks in the Magazine _Messing About in Boats_,
which is a *must* read, Google it to find how to
subscribe.
A popular sub-type of Bolger boats are known a 'Square
Boats', Google that phrase and you will find some
websites.
Or, just Google: "Bolger Boat"
Common Sense Boats sells a few Bolger plans, but some
feel they are not authorized by the designer to do so,
though the facts are murky. I am witholding
judgement, but in the meantime, all the plans are
available directly from Bolger.
Fax him a wish list of what you are looking for in a
boat and he usually promptly replies with some
suggestions.
> Is there a site where allPhil Bolger has designed over 700 boats spanning
> these boats can be seen?
> Thanks,
> boblynn
almost fifty years, of every size and type.
There is no website. The best place to start is to
read his book _Boats With An Open Mind_.
http://tinyurl.com/uqzq
Also, Phil Bolger & Friends publish an article every
two weeks in the Magazine _Messing About in Boats_,
which is a *must* read, Google it to find how to
subscribe.
A popular sub-type of Bolger boats are known a 'Square
Boats', Google that phrase and you will find some
websites.
Or, just Google: "Bolger Boat"
Common Sense Boats sells a few Bolger plans, but some
feel they are not authorized by the designer to do so,
though the facts are murky. I am witholding
judgement, but in the meantime, all the plans are
available directly from Bolger.
Fax him a wish list of what you are looking for in a
boat and he usually promptly replies with some
suggestions.
Is there a site where all these boats can be seen?
Thanks,
boblynn
Thanks,
boblynn
--- M�ximo wrote:
but I predict that you will
eventually get the plans and
be happy.
The Idaho is a great boat!
How do you plan to build it
and how/where do you plan to use it?
> plans for Idaho...I have read the complaints too,
> commonsenseboats...
> Should I be worried?
but I predict that you will
eventually get the plans and
be happy.
The Idaho is a great boat!
How do you plan to build it
and how/where do you plan to use it?
CSB = Run Screaming in the Other Direction. Buy from the horses mouth.
----- Original Message -----
From: "promaxsistemas" <maxpieretti@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:56 AM
Subject: [bolger] Common Sense Boats... Idaho
Hello: on nov-04-2003 I asked Jerry Estes by email
(mariner2@...) at CSB about the plans for Idaho and the
International Shipping. He answer me in 4 hours. I was very
satisfied so I placed the order in his website:
http://commonsenseboats.safeshopper.com/96/11812.htm?268
Then on nov-09-2003 I asked if he could confirmed me the day
he put the plans on the mail and in what company, so I will try to
track the order.
I have no response yet, four days waiting for an answer from
CSB. But my VISA was charged on nov-04.
Then, searching in this group, I found a lot of people with lots of
trouble with this service. Should I be worried? Thanks in advance
for your help, regards, Máximo.
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hello: on nov-04-2003 I asked Jerry Estes by email
(mariner2@...) at CSB about the plans for Idaho and the
International Shipping. He answer me in 4 hours. I was very
satisfied so I placed the order in his website:
http://commonsenseboats.safeshopper.com/96/11812.htm?268
Then on nov-09-2003 I asked if he could confirmed me the day
he put the plans on the mail and in what company, so I will try to
track the order.
I have no response yet, four days waiting for an answer from
CSB. But my VISA was charged on nov-04.
Then, searching in this group, I found a lot of people with lots of
trouble with this service. Should I be worried? Thanks in advance
for your help, regards, Máximo.
(mariner2@...) at CSB about the plans for Idaho and the
International Shipping. He answer me in 4 hours. I was very
satisfied so I placed the order in his website:
http://commonsenseboats.safeshopper.com/96/11812.htm?268
Then on nov-09-2003 I asked if he could confirmed me the day
he put the plans on the mail and in what company, so I will try to
track the order.
I have no response yet, four days waiting for an answer from
CSB. But my VISA was charged on nov-04.
Then, searching in this group, I found a lot of people with lots of
trouble with this service. Should I be worried? Thanks in advance
for your help, regards, Máximo.