Re: [bolger] Re: I60 News
>The hulls are made of whatDon't know yet, but if you look at the design, you'll see the
>thickness' of plywood?
stresses on the bow and stern are far less than the center section. I
wouldn't be surprised if those sections are no more heavily built
than a similar sized skiff. The center as to take the stress of both
masts and the keel, and will probably be along the lines of the
Jochem's scantlings. She's designed to dry out safely on a sand or
mud bottom, so maybe the bottom will be thicker.
>It seems that a majoritySuzanne said this should keep her quieter at anchor. She also said
>of Bolger boats in the
>last decade have cutwaters.
that she may not look like she's going as fast as she's going.
Sailing with only a slight heel, and with nothing underwater to make
waves, she will cause far less disturbance and look far less
"impressive" than a heavier boat going more slowly. Starboard tack
has right of way, right? ;-)
>I forget, what is the estimatedThe original MAIB article quoted #10,000. The boat is a foot wider
>total weight of the boat?
now, but the keel is two feet shorter and doesn't carry it's beam as
far forward or aft as the original cartoon. I'd guess it will be
somewhat heavier.
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
--- David Ryan
And, I cannot wait to see.
The hulls are made of what
thickness' of plywood?
It seems that a majority
of Bolger boats in the
last decade have cutwaters.
I forget, what is the estimated
total weight of the boat?
> So when will the plans be ready? Soon! When's that?Oh boy!
> Not soon enough!
And, I cannot wait to see.
The hulls are made of what
thickness' of plywood?
It seems that a majority
of Bolger boats in the
last decade have cutwaters.
I forget, what is the estimated
total weight of the boat?
>That's wonderful! I'm not sure that I understand how (don't theSuzanna tried to explain it; I'll see if I can't regurgitate:
>ends have to be unfolded for the masts to be standing?), but that's
>great news. Any chance that she can maneuver under power from a
>marina entrance to a berth while folded?
Some how the bow section and forward mast get in sailing position.
The order wasn't quite clear, as it seemed she was saying the mast
would be first and aid the bow. Hard to imagine.
The foremast aids the lifting of the stern section and the main mast,
then (if I understood correctly) the main mast takes over lowering
the stern into place.
There will be a sheet showing the sequence, and both Phil and Suzanne
were quite animated when discussing showing off this feature. Phil is
clearly delighted at the prospect of a 60' foot schooner emerging
from a 30' box, and how onlookers will react. Suzanne joked that they
should produce a handout for owners to give people, lest owners lose
too much time to offering explanations.
Hard to imagine she'll maneuver under power. With the rudder on top,
how would you steer? I suppose the motor could pivot. Should have
asked.
The work that they've put into getting dinghies on board impressed
me. It would be easy enough to say "put a punt in the bed of a your
tractor vehicle, and tow it behind when you're on the water." Suzanne
made it clear that they would not poke up above the sheer, lest they
spoil the boat's good looks. They didn't think that everyone would
want to carry them on every trip. But since the design is a "Family
Fast Cruiser" now, they felt that if she wasn't outfitted in a way
that wouldn't leave people stranded aboard too often, she'd be
incomplete.
The keel is a steel box with a faired trailing edge and the leading
edge to be sculpted from pressure-treated lumber. This would not be
glassed; the idea being that between beachings, dryout moorings, and
miscalculations this part of the boat might need to be replaced now
and again. I asked whether the it should be regarded as a retractable
keel or a weighted centerboard. The answer is it is most definitely a
keel, and should be down on all points of sailing.
Lots of speculation about speed, with citations of what other boats
have recorded, but the only commitment was "Hull speed, and then
some. Without knowing the drag of the keel, it's hard to know more"
Of course, Light Scooners have been clocked at speeds exceeding the
theoretical hull speed of the I60 ( 10 knots). I've clocked my own at
8 knots and we weren't even on plane. Personally I think ballast is
going to be limiting factor; as long as she's sailing upright I think
she'll just go faster and faster.
My building sequence (bits and pieces, spars, bow, stern, main
section) is officially "PCB & F approved". Suzanne recommend
starting with the bow or stern to work out procedures. They figure
that even the center section won't be so heavy that it can't be
turned if needed.
Some sentimental gushing on the effect of Bolger philosophy on my
life. Maybe not the emotional candor that either New Englanders or
Germans are used to, but they were gracious about it.
So when will the plans be ready? Soon! When's that? Not soon enough!
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
>David,I didn't think to ask, and it didn't come up.
>
>Did they, by chance, mention anything about attending a bolger
>messabout this year?
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
David,
Did they, by chance, mention anything about attending a bolger
messabout this year?
Frank
Did they, by chance, mention anything about attending a bolger
messabout this year?
Frank
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
> We talked about lots other boat related things. I found myself caught
> between pleasant conversation and star struck hero worship.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
David:
ends have to be unfolded for the masts to be standing?), but that's
great news. Any chance that she can maneuver under power from a
marina entrance to a berth while folded?
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> I just got off the phone with Phil and Suzanne, and I've got someYay! I was just writing a note to them in another window, actually.
> very welcome new details about the boat:
> The boat can "pull herself up by her boot straps" in the unfoldingThat's wonderful! I'm not sure that I understand how (don't the
> sequence. The masts assist in raising and lowering the ends.
ends have to be unfolded for the masts to be standing?), but that's
great news. Any chance that she can maneuver under power from a
marina entrance to a berth while folded?
> She carries two hard dinghies, tucked away ship shape in the bow.Ooo, I sense another hers-and-hers project coming, a la the Mice.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
FBBB,
I just got off the phone with Phil and Suzanne, and I've got some
very welcome new details about the boat:
I was very happy to hear that the spars are designed to be built from
lumber yard stock, not the vertical grain spruce or douglas fir I had
budgeted for. The booms and gaffs are to be built on a T section, and
should go together very quickly. The masts are box-build, presumably
round. "Pick your sticks and scarf around any flaws as needed" was
the advice. Phil says the stays with eliminate the need for
ultra-premium lumber.
I was also happy to hear that they considered my budget ($10,000) for
the folding keel "generous". But since my boat will spend a lot of
time moored, I'm not going to spend the savings just yet. I may need
to used more exotic materials.
The folding is indeed offset, allowing the center section to be
shorter. Wrestling with the angles involved has been a lot of work.
The boat can "pull herself up by her boot straps" in the unfolding
sequence. The masts assist in raising and lowering the ends.
She carries two hard dinghies, tucked away ship shape in the bow.
She'll motor in two feet of water, and sail in six with a foot to
spare. The keel has a sacrificial leading edge against
miscalculations and beaching.
The bow has a shoe/cutwater for beaching and to quiet her at anchor.
In anticipation of her sleek shape cutting right through waves, her
bow is designed to shed green water.
The side panels come out of 4x8 panels, with a little shape at one
end, similar to the LS, so the lofting will be dead simple.
We talked about lots other boat related things. I found myself caught
between pleasant conversation and star struck hero worship.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
I just got off the phone with Phil and Suzanne, and I've got some
very welcome new details about the boat:
I was very happy to hear that the spars are designed to be built from
lumber yard stock, not the vertical grain spruce or douglas fir I had
budgeted for. The booms and gaffs are to be built on a T section, and
should go together very quickly. The masts are box-build, presumably
round. "Pick your sticks and scarf around any flaws as needed" was
the advice. Phil says the stays with eliminate the need for
ultra-premium lumber.
I was also happy to hear that they considered my budget ($10,000) for
the folding keel "generous". But since my boat will spend a lot of
time moored, I'm not going to spend the savings just yet. I may need
to used more exotic materials.
The folding is indeed offset, allowing the center section to be
shorter. Wrestling with the angles involved has been a lot of work.
The boat can "pull herself up by her boot straps" in the unfolding
sequence. The masts assist in raising and lowering the ends.
She carries two hard dinghies, tucked away ship shape in the bow.
She'll motor in two feet of water, and sail in six with a foot to
spare. The keel has a sacrificial leading edge against
miscalculations and beaching.
The bow has a shoe/cutwater for beaching and to quiet her at anchor.
In anticipation of her sleek shape cutting right through waves, her
bow is designed to shed green water.
The side panels come out of 4x8 panels, with a little shape at one
end, similar to the LS, so the lofting will be dead simple.
We talked about lots other boat related things. I found myself caught
between pleasant conversation and star struck hero worship.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
> Palenville, which is in the northeastern part of the Catskills.Hi Sue --
> Right next door to Kaaterskill Falls, in fact.
> Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
Certainly count me in for at least a weekend of blitz-building. I'd
love to see an I-60 come together, but I suspect I'll still be
slaving away on my Cormorant during David's building fest next
summer.
Seems like a long haul to Palenville from Rochester. How will you
manage it -- will you take up residence there for a summer? (My boats
usually get built in many little one-hour dashes, or ten-minute
dashes, out to the barn.)
All best,
Garth
> Where in the Catskills? I'm in Halcottsville, a tiny hamlet betweenPalenville, which is in the northeastern part of the Catskills.
> Margaretville and Roxbury in the northwestern Catskills.
Right next door to Kaaterskill Falls, in fact.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> We'll probably build her onHi Sue --
> some land that friends of ours own in the Catskills.
Where in the Catskills? I'm in Halcottsville, a tiny hamlet between
Margaretville and Roxbury in the northwestern Catskills. If you're
building nearby, I'd be glad to pitch in (assuming Cormorant is
finished by 2005).
All best,
Garth
--- Peter Lenihan wrote:
yet another reason to build one.
> Not to mention......the Superbrick Challenge,
yet another reason to build one.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
and floating refridgeration unit for cases of imported beers.Bo'sun
Bruce could bring up the rear with his TIMS loaded with pirates all
armed with spud-guns ready to fend off anyone coming too close to the
fun while Lincoln handles the aircraft carrier and directs flights to
reconnoitre possible deserted beaches and/or anchorages for blow-out-
howling-at-the-moon-all-night-long celebration parties. I get first
dibs on the master stateroom on board WINDERMERE :-D
Peter Lenihan
> Especially when you notice a "Cutwater Brick" chugging alongsideNot to mention WINDERMERE serving as crew support/launch/tow/escort
> filming it all:-)
>
> Nels
and floating refridgeration unit for cases of imported beers.Bo'sun
Bruce could bring up the rear with his TIMS loaded with pirates all
armed with spud-guns ready to fend off anyone coming too close to the
fun while Lincoln handles the aircraft carrier and directs flights to
reconnoitre possible deserted beaches and/or anchorages for blow-out-
howling-at-the-moon-all-night-long celebration parties. I get first
dibs on the master stateroom on board WINDERMERE :-D
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
filming it all:-)
Nels
>you,
> Peter I think you are missing the point. If you're at the helm of
> your W Class sloop watching the stern of an I60 moving away from
> the last thing on your mind is going to be the ratings ;-)Especially when you notice a "Cutwater Brick" chugging alongside
>
filming it all:-)
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
Sea of Cortez is on my wish list too:-)
the good spots!
> Despite wild ideas about Key Largo or Chisasibi or the Sea ofThat sounds like the way to go. What is "Shrike"? Any photos?
> Cortez, my beat-up old Suburban probably isn't up to it, and
> _Shrike_ will do just fine for coastal cruising in distant areas
> with long drives. My Aztek should barely notice the difference
> when towing her.
Sea of Cortez is on my wish list too:-)
> I'm planning to dragoon as many friends into this as I can. Heck,Have van - will travel:-)
> if we're doing it in different years, perhaps many of the
> Bolgeristas who show up to help David might be persuaded to give
> me a hand when the time comes?
>Yes that is how I feel too. Portage over the boring spots and sail in
> -- Sue --
> (really, the trailer is more about portaging than it is about
> traditional trailering, at least for me)
the good spots!
Shades of Nat Herreshoff and the Amaryllis!
David "no, I wasn't there, but I heard about it" Romasco
_____
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 3:37 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: I60 News
--- David Ryan wrote:
I60 have "Tyvek" printed all over them.
Maybe, a few blue poly tarps, mixed in,
might ease the pain. Not!
What is the phrase?
Irresponsible. A gratutious mockery of
Right-Thinking Boatmen and other snobs.
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
David "no, I wasn't there, but I heard about it" Romasco
_____
From: Bruce Hallman [mailto:bruce@...]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 3:37 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: I60 News
--- David Ryan wrote:
> watching the stern of an I60Made worse, when the sails of the
> moving away from you,
I60 have "Tyvek" printed all over them.
Maybe, a few blue poly tarps, mixed in,
might ease the pain. Not!
What is the phrase?
Irresponsible. A gratutious mockery of
Right-Thinking Boatmen and other snobs.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12cof1p1s/M=243273.4156324.5364586.1261774/D=egroup
web/S=1705065791:HM/EXP=1069187835/A=1750744/R=0/*http://servedby.advertisin
g.com/click/site=552006/bnum=1069101435989401> Click to learn more...
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=243273.4156324.5364586.1261774/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1750744/rand=209536831>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
the information about the modifications to an Ostar 30.
Here is the source mesg:
>a
> I have heard that a keel like the I60 has already been installed on
> Bolger design. Have you heard from the person who did this?Out of curiosity I checked back in the posts to see who had posted
the information about the modifications to an Ostar 30.
Here is the source mesg:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Ann, Gary " <gbship@i...> wrote:
> For anyone who's interested, I've posted some pictures of the
removal
> and recontruction of the cabin on my Bolger 30-footer in the Files
> section. Look in the "wingkeel" folder at files "alter1" through
> "alter11." I took a week off of work to get this started, and have
> been working on it pretty steadily for the past three weeks. Since
> the
> last pictures were taken a couple days ago, the cabin top has been
> finished and I'm now working on the hatches.
>
> Other good news is I've finally found a welder to build the unique
> keel shown in some of the drawings in the folder. It should be
built
> in about a month.
>
> Gary Blankenship
> Tallahassee, FL
I wonder if anyone knows if Gary is still a member?
If you notice in that same file section there are also diagrams
showing how a second steering station was to be installed inside the
new house design.
I think this would maybe work for a LM Navigator but there is not
really enough clarity in the diagram to see how it is designed.
Any suggestions - other than buy the plans?:-(
Cheers, Nels
--- David Ryan wrote:
I60 have "Tyvek" printed all over them.
Maybe, a few blue poly tarps, mixed in,
might ease the pain. Not!
What is the phrase?
Irresponsible. A gratutious mockery of
Right-Thinking Boatmen and other snobs.
> watching the stern of an I60Made worse, when the sails of the
> moving away from you,
I60 have "Tyvek" printed all over them.
Maybe, a few blue poly tarps, mixed in,
might ease the pain. Not!
What is the phrase?
Irresponsible. A gratutious mockery of
Right-Thinking Boatmen and other snobs.
Winning depends on 1) elegibility and 2) rating. Don't presume on
either account, in this case.
--------------------------
Peter I think you are missing the point. If you're at the helm of
your W Class sloop watching the stern of an I60 moving away from you,
the last thing on your mind is going to be the ratings ;-)
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
either account, in this case.
--------------------------
Peter I think you are missing the point. If you're at the helm of
your W Class sloop watching the stern of an I60 moving away from you,
the last thing on your mind is going to be the ratings ;-)
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
> A million mile Suburban may be cheap to buy but not to run norI have the Suburban already; it's been parked in my driveway for
> maintain and a trailer with all the required safety gear is
> likewise.
a year and a half now. I'm not planning to run it much, just
enough to shift the I60 between Irondequoit Bay and the Erie Canal,
or between Westfield and Mayville to get _Gadfly_ from Lake Erie
to Lake Chautauqua. I'm planning to use her as a floating vacation
cottage for most of the Chautauqua season, and put her on a mooring
in Irondequoit Bay for the rest of the season. The only way that
I would dry sail her would be if I got a sweetheart deal in the
dry sail area of a club with a five ton lift, with the only routine
towing being between the lift and my parking space.
Despite wild ideas about Key Largo or Chisasibi or the Sea of
Cortez, my beat-up old Suburban probably isn't up to it, and
_Shrike_ will do just fine for coastal cruising in distant areas
with long drives. My Aztek should barely notice the difference
when towing her.
> I guess I have to be honest and say it seems like a huge projectI'm planning to dragoon as many friends into this as I can. Heck,
> for one person and I am disapointed that PCB&F felt it was doable
> as suggested.
if we're doing it in different years, perhaps many of the
Bolgeristas who show up to help David might be persuaded to give
me a hand when the time comes?
-- Sue --
(really, the trailer is more about portaging than it is about
traditional trailering, at least for me)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but there is a difference
between the I60 being faster than some much more expensive racing
boat and the I60 being a cheap racing machine. Most racing classes,
including PHRF, require 'safety features' that may not work out well
on the schooner. Things like lifelines.
Winning depends on 1) elegibility and 2) rating. Don't presume on
either account, in this case.
Peter
between the I60 being faster than some much more expensive racing
boat and the I60 being a cheap racing machine. Most racing classes,
including PHRF, require 'safety features' that may not work out well
on the schooner. Things like lifelines.
Winning depends on 1) elegibility and 2) rating. Don't presume on
either account, in this case.
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
I built with David. Now I'm not so sure -- she's wonderful for an
afternoon on the Erie Canal, but she's tender enough that I have
trouble imagining succesfully boarding her from another boat while
both vessels were bobbing up and down in a seaway. Still, the
Grand Banks fishing schooners did it, so there must be a way....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>Until September, the answer was that I planned to use the Gull that
> What are you planning to use for a tender?
I built with David. Now I'm not so sure -- she's wonderful for an
afternoon on the Erie Canal, but she's tender enough that I have
trouble imagining succesfully boarding her from another boat while
both vessels were bobbing up and down in a seaway. Still, the
Grand Banks fishing schooners did it, so there must be a way....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
David:
together, with _Shrike_ as a chase boat and photography platform.
But now that you mention it, she would make a fairly decent
tender with her masts struck down, as well as an extra stateroom.
And she's able enough to be dispatched on an overnight run for
groceries, or to let a teenager come cruising without being stuck
with his or her parents the whole time.
Mostly, though, she's meant to be my boat for afternoons when no
one else wants to go sailing, or for when I need to get away by
myself for a couple of days. She'll also be our trailer cruising
boat for towing to distant cruising grounds... or at all for the
next couple of seasons when _Gadfly_ is in the water.
company actually understand four-sided sails, and his prices ought
to be lower than lofts on the East Coast. I've raced with Dave's
sails before, and done well with them.
We should still shop around, though, at least among lofts with a
proven track record for four-sided sails.
going to be my 2004 boatbuilding project, since it won't soak up
large amounts of money) most of the time, and save the I60 for long
distance races... or for racing against other I60s.
all-female crew, most of the time, which would pretty much guarantee
it.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> >Is Susan still planning to build oneWhat I actually had in mind was _Shrike_ and _Gadfly_ sailing
> >too?
>
> As far as I know, yes. She written about how much she's looking
> forward to towing her SHS behind her big schooner.
together, with _Shrike_ as a chase boat and photography platform.
But now that you mention it, she would make a fairly decent
tender with her masts struck down, as well as an extra stateroom.
And she's able enough to be dispatched on an overnight run for
groceries, or to let a teenager come cruising without being stuck
with his or her parents the whole time.
Mostly, though, she's meant to be my boat for afternoons when no
one else wants to go sailing, or for when I need to get away by
myself for a couple of days. She'll also be our trailer cruising
boat for towing to distant cruising grounds... or at all for the
next couple of seasons when _Gadfly_ is in the water.
> 4) Have a set custom made. Hopefully with two boats to dress, SueI have one in mind, actually: Dave Bierig in Erie, PA. Dave and
> and I might get a little break. I'm sure PCB can recommend a loft.
company actually understand four-sided sails, and his prices ought
to be lower than lofts on the East Coast. I've raced with Dave's
sails before, and done well with them.
We should still shop around, though, at least among lofts with a
proven track record for four-sided sails.
> Sue is really more of a racer than I am. Maybe if there was such aI'll probably wind up racing my Lightning (restoring it is probably
> thing as full-contact sailing.
going to be my 2004 boatbuilding project, since it won't soak up
large amounts of money) most of the time, and save the I60 for long
distance races... or for racing against other I60s.
> >"Well you might win some races, but youThe boat is pretty enough that we probably would... and we'd be an
> >won't get invited to any after-race cocktail
> >parties."
all-female crew, most of the time, which would pretty much guarantee
it.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> Is Susan still planning to build one too?Yes, she is, but she and her partner are still unemployed at the
moment, and keeping up with the mortgage and car payment is enough
of a challenge at the moment without adding a 60' luxury yacht to
the mix. The tentative plan is for _Gadfly_ to launch in 2005,
assuming employment for at least one of us, and me being able to
steal enough time to get her done. We'll probably build her on
some land that friends of ours own in the Catskills.
It's possible that some -- or rather a lot -- of the work could
happen in 2004, as the bare hull and spars represent the lion's
share of the labor but not the lion's share of the cost. The
trailer, sails, motor, electronics, electrical system, and
especially the retractable keel system are all big ticket items,
but only the keel is actually a prerequisite for the construction
to proceed. And even without the keel, I can still fab up all of
the hull pieces for later assembly when the keel becomes affordable.
The other variable here is that if I'm still employed when my UI
runs out in March, I'm mulling over the possibility of taking six
months to go thru-hike the Appalachian Trail. That would push the
construction schedule back even farther, though I'm having trouble
imagining being away from my partner for that long, and there are
some grand cruising plans that I have for _Shrike_ next year, too.
Anyway, to answer your question: Yes, in 2005. I suppose that makes
David's _Antichrist_ hull #1 and my _Gadfly_ hull #2, for purposes
of assigning sail numbers for that national racing class that PCB
was noodling about....
-- Sue --
(I60 USA-2)
(or CAN-2, depending on where we find employment)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
The article clarifies a lot of questions. Apparently the pointy ends
and rig all fold down inside the birdwatcher style cabin! And having
hydraulics to raise and lower the ends makes if a lot easier to
comprehend the launching/retrieval exercise.
The last paragraph is very illuminating as well - seeming to indicate
that it requires a crew of four. The swing-wing keel is certainly the
secret to it's abilities. I can see a real challenge in installing
it, especially after being intimidated by a Micro keel. Hittin a
submerged object a sideways glancing blow at speed might be scarey -
especially if the keel jammed in the lowered position!
One must also not underestimate the investment required in trailer
and tow vehicle, if one was really serious about going any distance.
A million mile Suburban may be cheap to buy but not to run nor
maintain and a trailer with all the required safety gear is likewise.
A marina berth may be quite camparitive in cost.
I have a one ton diesel van and a Pontiac Transsport which is the
platform from which the Aztec is based. The van would pull an I60 but
the Transsport will not even tow Lestat without all that well.
However the van could easily tow the center section of the I60 and
making that section available for use as a camping trailer. An Aztec
could easily tow both ends stacke atop each other. So what I am
suggesting is that it might be more viable if I were to share the
cost and building and transporting one boat and have it available to
enjoy as you build the second one.
Then you also have the option of getting two more couples interested
and end up with a two-boat corporation shared by 4 couples.
I guess I have to be honest and say it seems like a huge project for
one person and I am disapointed that PCB&F felt it was doable as
suggested. Of course in the last paragraph they postulate the very
thing I am suggesting - that a group get together and build one.
Even though the construction is straighforward - tother than the
keel - you folks are buiding six boats nevertheless and two of them
are quite large.
Also it seems PCB&F refer to it as a trailer sailer:-)
BTW there is an illustration of a similar keel in the files section
here,under the name "Foils, boards, rudders, keels" and in a sub-
folder called "wingkeel" and a file named "New Keel". It is about
modifying the 30 foot PCB Ostar Racer
All the best - If anybody can do it - you can David and Sue!
Cheers, Nels
> See the attachment pasted below!Thanks Bruce,
The article clarifies a lot of questions. Apparently the pointy ends
and rig all fold down inside the birdwatcher style cabin! And having
hydraulics to raise and lower the ends makes if a lot easier to
comprehend the launching/retrieval exercise.
The last paragraph is very illuminating as well - seeming to indicate
that it requires a crew of four. The swing-wing keel is certainly the
secret to it's abilities. I can see a real challenge in installing
it, especially after being intimidated by a Micro keel. Hittin a
submerged object a sideways glancing blow at speed might be scarey -
especially if the keel jammed in the lowered position!
One must also not underestimate the investment required in trailer
and tow vehicle, if one was really serious about going any distance.
A million mile Suburban may be cheap to buy but not to run nor
maintain and a trailer with all the required safety gear is likewise.
A marina berth may be quite camparitive in cost.
I have a one ton diesel van and a Pontiac Transsport which is the
platform from which the Aztec is based. The van would pull an I60 but
the Transsport will not even tow Lestat without all that well.
However the van could easily tow the center section of the I60 and
making that section available for use as a camping trailer. An Aztec
could easily tow both ends stacke atop each other. So what I am
suggesting is that it might be more viable if I were to share the
cost and building and transporting one boat and have it available to
enjoy as you build the second one.
Then you also have the option of getting two more couples interested
and end up with a two-boat corporation shared by 4 couples.
I guess I have to be honest and say it seems like a huge project for
one person and I am disapointed that PCB&F felt it was doable as
suggested. Of course in the last paragraph they postulate the very
thing I am suggesting - that a group get together and build one.
Even though the construction is straighforward - tother than the
keel - you folks are buiding six boats nevertheless and two of them
are quite large.
Also it seems PCB&F refer to it as a trailer sailer:-)
BTW there is an illustration of a similar keel in the files section
here,under the name "Foils, boards, rudders, keels" and in a sub-
folder called "wingkeel" and a file named "New Keel". It is about
modifying the 30 foot PCB Ostar Racer
All the best - If anybody can do it - you can David and Sue!
Cheers, Nels
--- David Ryan
I might be confusing the two, or are they the same?
As a tender?
What are you planning to use for a tender?
His and Hers and SHS are the same thing. His and Hers stems from Tony
Groves comment that when you have a pretty boat you never got to see
what it looks like underway. Sue and I have taken that thought to an
ill-advised extreme.
Part of the original commission for the I60 included an offer from
PCB&F to recommend a tender, presumably from their portfolio. In
fooling around with my Gulls, I've become a big believer that any
small boat you need to step in and out of should be flat bottomed and
plumb sided. I guessing Tortoise. There just might be room inside a
folded I60 for a Tortoise, and there'd certainly be room in/on the
tow vehicle.
In any case it doesn't matter much till we get to the dragging her
all over the place part of the adventure. 90% of our boats service is
going to be as the world's most spectacular daysailer/weekender. I'll
be keeping her in a cove that's about 3 feet deep at low tide (same
place I keep the LSME) and during the warm months will usually board
simply by wading out. Grandmothers and other non-waders can be taken
aboard by nosing the bow into shallow water or can be picked up at
the public dock that has to be passed on the way to open water.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
>towing her SHS behind her big schooner.His and Hers Schooner? Single Handed Schooner?
I might be confusing the two, or are they the same?
As a tender?
What are you planning to use for a tender?
His and Hers and SHS are the same thing. His and Hers stems from Tony
Groves comment that when you have a pretty boat you never got to see
what it looks like underway. Sue and I have taken that thought to an
ill-advised extreme.
Part of the original commission for the I60 included an offer from
PCB&F to recommend a tender, presumably from their portfolio. In
fooling around with my Gulls, I've become a big believer that any
small boat you need to step in and out of should be flat bottomed and
plumb sided. I guessing Tortoise. There just might be room inside a
folded I60 for a Tortoise, and there'd certainly be room in/on the
tow vehicle.
In any case it doesn't matter much till we get to the dragging her
all over the place part of the adventure. 90% of our boats service is
going to be as the world's most spectacular daysailer/weekender. I'll
be keeping her in a cove that's about 3 feet deep at low tide (same
place I keep the LSME) and during the warm months will usually board
simply by wading out. Grandmothers and other non-waders can be taken
aboard by nosing the bow into shallow water or can be picked up at
the public dock that has to be passed on the way to open water.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
>LMAO!!!!!
> Oh wait! I've seen pictures of you too. Deal!
Jeff
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Lenihan" <lestat@b...> wrote:
the viewpoint of us westerners:-)
pirates and our Newfie buddies. But now that you let the cat out of
the bag I guess we may as erll explain how to get there. From St.
Johns Newfoundland you tow your boat up to Goobies(Really!) and turn
left - then head southward to the small port of St. Lawrence. From
there it is about an 8 hour sail in a Micro - or less than a hour in
an I60.
What a place to hide out and intercept passing tour ships!
Perhaps a small carrier and scout plane would make it even more
viable?
Cheers, Nels
> I know that Anticosti was once owned by a Frenchman(Meunier oris
> Menier?)in the late 1800's,early 1900's but it was bought back and
> still a part of Canada or Quebec,to be more precise.Whether owned by France or Quebec IMO it still needs liberating from
the viewpoint of us westerners:-)
> Perhaps it is that wonderful collection of 7 or 8 islandsto
> collectively known as St.Pierre et Miquelon sitting out in the Gulf
> of St.Lawrence off Newfoundlands southern coast to which you meant
> refer the ever intrepid Dave Ryan to? I certainly hope so since heremaining
> will be able to fully indulge any and all vices at duty free almost
> tax free rates while enjoying various vistas from the last
> French settlement in North America.Aye matey! Baileys Irish Creamby
> the gallon and some awefully fine Bordeauxs by the keg :-DI was planning to keep that a "little secret" between us Saskatchewan
pirates and our Newfie buddies. But now that you let the cat out of
the bag I guess we may as erll explain how to get there. From St.
Johns Newfoundland you tow your boat up to Goobies(Really!) and turn
left - then head southward to the small port of St. Lawrence. From
there it is about an 8 hour sail in a Micro - or less than a hour in
an I60.
What a place to hide out and intercept passing tour ships!
Perhaps a small carrier and scout plane would make it even more
viable?
Cheers, Nels
--- David Ryan
I might be confusing the two, or are they the same?
As a tender?
What are you planning to use for a tender?
>towing her SHS behind her big schooner.His and Hers Schooner? Single Handed Schooner?
I might be confusing the two, or are they the same?
As a tender?
What are you planning to use for a tender?
> Why would I want to go to an after-race cocktail party when I canIf your speaking of myself and the Wyo, I'm there!
> retract the keel, motor up into some secluded creek, and make love to
> my wife in a hammock slung in the bow?
>
As long as you anchor up that creek far enough away that neither of us can
see the others hammock! LOL
------------
I've seen pictures of your wife; no promises.
Oh wait! I've seen pictures of you too. Deal!
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
> Wyoming plus keel and sails.I'm on track to hit $20,000 so far on the Wyo. Considering I wanted to
spend $15,000 I think the 25% increase will be realistic. She's not going
to be anything super fancy but she's strong and well built. No gold plated
looks but she'll be acceptable in most marinas and snobs. ( I hope! )
BTW, I just hauled the cockpit section to storage. I have pics of the
loading on my website. You can't envision the size of the Wyo until you see
just the cockpit on a 20 foot trailer.
www.4dw.net/cosailor
> Sue is really more of a racer than I am. Maybe if there was such aIf your speaking of myself and the Wyo, I'm there!
> thing as full-contact sailing. I am really looking forward to
> parading with Sue and Jeff. There's also an annual 'Round Long Island
> race that would be fun.
> Why would I want to go to an after-race cocktail party when I can
> retract the keel, motor up into some secluded creek, and make love to
> my wife in a hammock slung in the bow?
>
As long as you anchor up that creek far enough away that neither of us can
see the others hammock! LOL
Jeff
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
and a raiding trip to Anticosti -
> which is still owned by France:-)
>
Holy Smokes Nels...don't tell me the French are up to their tricks
again! :-)
I know that Anticosti was once owned by a Frenchman(Meunier or
Menier?)in the late 1800's,early 1900's but it was bought back and is
still a part of Canada or Quebec,to be more precise.
Perhaps it is that wonderful collection of 7 or 8 islands
collectively known as St.Pierre et Miquelon sitting out in the Gulf
of St.Lawrence off Newfoundlands southern coast to which you meant to
refer the ever intrepid Dave Ryan to? I certainly hope so since he
will be able to fully indulge any and all vices at duty free almost
tax free rates while enjoying various vistas from the last remaining
French settlement in North America.Aye matey! Baileys Irish Cream by
the gallon and some awefully fine Bordeauxs by the keg :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who once savoured and enjoyed several weeks worth of
ill gotten booty sailed over to les isle de la Madeleine from
St.Pierre et Miquelon without a Mounty,Provincial police or customs
agaent in sight anywhere on the star speckled black waters of the
Gulf of St.Lawrence, just another born-again pirate..........:-D
>The I60 is Bolgers most audaciousMore like 5000%. The W-76 goes for about $2.5M
>boat yet. Imagine a racing sailboat
>competitive with boats costing 1000%
>more.
>David, have you estimated a budget?Wyoming plus keel and sails.
>Is Susan still planning to build oneAs far as I know, yes. She written about how much she's looking
>too?
forward to towing her SHS behind her big schooner.
>Can the I60 be sailed single handed?My LSME experience says yes, provided one is careful not to get
caught carrying to much sail. With just the main and self-tending
jib, it should be no real problem. I wouldn't want to be out by
myself trying to get the foresail down with the rest of the sail
flogging in a rising breeze.
>Does she have net positive buoyancyYes.
>if she was flooded?
>How will she sail with the ballast finIn PCB&F's last technical correspondence he said the new keel was
>in the 'up' position?
going to be shorter, making for less change in the center of lateral
resistance when the blade is partial retracted. I take this to mean
that she can and sometime should be sailed with the fin at least
partially retracted.
>Do the folded 'skiffs' still touchDon't know yet.
>stem to stern, or do they offset?
>Could you share, please, the newestThe boat is a little wider now, allowing the keel to be less deep
>details of the geometry of the folding
>fin?
while still providing the same sail carrying power. (See above)
>It seems clear, that you need an artistFour solutions for sails, depending on cash flow when we reach that point:
>and a craftsman to make the sails, have
>you selected a good one?
1) No sails until we can afford them. With a 25hp high thurst she'll
make a fine camp cruiser for Gardiner's Bay. One month's rental from
our house would buy a very nice set of sails.
2) Cut up some used sails. This what I had been doing with the LSME
and it worked quite nicely. She pointed nearly as well as a sloop
carrying North sails, and they didn't cost nothing.
3) The BDS sailed well enough carrying a set of homemade tyvek sails.
4) Have a set custom made. Hopefully with two boats to dress, Sue and
I might get a little break. I'm sure PCB can recommend a loft.
>Have the sailboat racing rule committeesSue is really more of a racer than I am. Maybe if there was such a
>learned of this outrage, and have they
>re-written their rules yet to deflect
>the insolent affront?
thing as full-contact sailing. I am really looking forward to
parading with Sue and Jeff. There's also an annual 'Round Long Island
race that would be fun.
>When I showed the cartoon of this designWhy would I want to go to an after-race cocktail party when I can
>to my sailboat racer friend, he comtemplated
>it for a minute and said:
>
>"Well you might win some races, but you
>won't get invited to any after-race cocktail
>parties."
retract the keel, motor up into some secluded creek, and make love to
my wife in a hammock slung in the bow?
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
--- Nels wrote
[but first...]
The I60 is Bolgers most audacious
boat yet. Imagine a racing sailboat
competitive with boats costing 1000%
more.
At this point in PCB's career,
he can pick and choose which
boats to focus on, and one he
chooses is the I60.
David, have you estimated a budget?
Is Susan still planning to build one
too?
Can the I60 be sailed single handed?
Does she have net positive buoyancy
if she was flooded?
How will she sail with the ballast fin
in the 'up' position?
Do the folded 'skiffs' still touch
stem to stern, or do they offset?
Could you share, please, the newest
details of the geometry of the folding
fin?
It seems clear, that you need an artist
and a craftsman to make the sails, have
you selected a good one?
Have the sailboat racing rule committees
learned of this outrage, and have they
re-written their rules yet to deflect
the insolent affront?
When I showed the cartoon of this design
to my sailboat racer friend, he comtemplated
it for a minute and said:
"Well you might win some races, but you
won't get invited to any after-race cocktail
parties."
===== pasted text below =====
Messing About in Boats
Phil Bolger and Friends
Bolger on Design
Insolent 60
A Maximum Trailer Sailer
62�0" length overall
59�5" length on deck
29� 11" length folded
7�6" extreme breadth
6�0" bottom breadth
7�8" draft with full fin keel
1' 6" draft with fin keel raised
10' 7" bridge clearance on road trailer
7000 lbs. full load displacement,
including 3000 lbs. on the bottom of the fin
815 sq. ft. working sail area
1017 sq. ft. with main staysail
"A sense of wonder" was the primary aim of the client
of Puget Sound who commissioned this design study. He
wanted to sail something long and narrow that would
stand out in any circumstances, but especially in
action. He had in mind a big fin-keel sharpie like an
enlarged Ray Hunt 110, but not so stark in style and
rig. He had already had a lot of fun exploring various
aesthetic possibilities and we saw having ours as
well. So far easy and fun.
But then the plot thickened. It had to be built in a
very small shop on a tight budget. And in further
discussion it became clear that paying for such a long
berth anywhere near civilization was not on the budget
either, dictating routine road hauling with launching
and retrieving sessions associated with each sail,
with a craft of that length?
This last requirement meant that all the components,
including the spars, had to come within the 33� length
for civilian trailers, with- out special permits in
many states, from the after end to the trailer hitch,
and that the bridge clearance on the trailer had to be
within legal limits as well. The height limit, plus
the desir- ability of hauling up on the trailer at a
low angle, dictated the 6� chine breadth, to run low
between the wheels of the trailer (although by now
we�d see a way for a wider hull under legal height
limits).
Keeping her upright and sailing would require a
serious but retractable ballast keel arrangement able
to approach a public ramp under power. By way of a
concession, the accommodations could be spartan,
though it was stipulated that she have four berths, a
rudimentary galley, and an enclosed toilet room for
overnight and weekend outings, unlike many sportive
devices afloat she would have to be cruisable. We
found this challenge intriguing. The idea of making it
possible to cut a dash in speed and spectacle in the
company of the millionaires� yachts with a boat almost
farcically cheap by comparison, both in first cost and
running costs, was very much to our taste. The big
yachts are great, but if they were a lot cheaper to
build and use, say by a couple of orders of magnitude,
and did not take up scarce berthing and mooring space,
there could be a lot more of them. And it eventually
came to look doable.
She would have to be a three-piece folding Sharpie
Schooner. In the context of other successful folding
and module-based projects in the past, this craft
would be the longest yet, albeit with relatively
limited complexity and actual mechanical drama. The
main hull is a box very slightly tapered at each end,
nearly 30� long. Hinged on each end is a light, empty
fairing, 15�3" forward and 14� aft, that folds over on
top of the main hull. The unusual profile of the main
hull�s deckhouse is to accept the folded-over stem
section within the height limit. The rudder on the
after end can be swung to clear the folded-over
forward end. The ends are light and there is an
assumption that this boat will not be short-handed,
but on this scale we were looking at 12V DC powered
hydraulic jacks to control and synchronize power
necessary to initiate and control the folding process,
likely making it faster right after launching, and
more reliable, and thus safer with wind conditions
less of a scary notion.
The schooner rig was chosen because it can set the
most effective area of any usual rig for its overall
height (effect on stability) and for the length of its
masts (to be easy to raise and lower and to keep
within the stipulated trailer length). It�s especially
well-suited to hulls which are long for the sail power
they need. As the body plan shows, this hull is not
particularly narrow for her depth and weight, but she
is very long for her breadth. The old sharpie rule of
thumb was six times as long on deck as wide on the
bottom. This one is practically ten to one, like a
destroyer.
Between the long length and the very shallow body,
this hull won�t make any waves worth contemplating at
any speed, even when she is sharply heeled under a
full press of sail. Her slender shape will allow her
to far exceed nominal hull speed that is practically
10 knots in the first place. She might touch 15 knots
reaching in a breeze, sailing right by a W-Class
sloop, for instance, and with her deep fin and
well-cut sails she would not be humiliated on a dead
beat either. She also does not have very much surface
area with the keel retracted, or wind resistance with
her masts towered, so the 9.9 hp four-stroke motor
should get her 7000 lbs. around at four knots or
better.
The retracting winged fin is the key to her ability to
carry enough sail, in strong enough wind, to go fast,
especially to wind- ward. It�s a steel fabrication
with lead wings on the bottom, both carefully
foil-shaped. (In- cidentally, we�ve seen a number of
designs in which wing keels are foiled upside down,
with the apparent object of lifting the boat out of
water instead of holding her against leeway!)
The mechanical lifting geometry of the fin is arranged
in such a way that the ballast wing remains horizontal
in fore and aft plane as the keel is raised; the wing
ends up with its flattish upper side against the
bottom of the hull with enough bearing area to allow
her to sit down on it without damage. Contrariwise,
the wings are not stressed by having to stand
grounding unsupported. The connections that produce
this effect are not at all complicated, though they do
have to be precisely propor- tioned. We should hear in
the not-too-distant future how a smaller keel of this
type worked out. It was well along in fabrication the
last we heard.
Insolent 60 should be doable within a moderate
five-digit budget. Hull and rig con- struction would
be fast and simple with pre- fabrication of near all
structural members and panels possible on level and
ergonomically correct tables, leaving the hydraulics
and the keel mechanism as the focus of more intense
concentration. Figure 3000+ lbs. for ply, epoxy, and
glass, plus another 3000 lbs. for lead ballast, plus
simple unstayed rig of 815 sf, 10 hp large prop
outboard power, ground tackle, and the usual minimum
of nay., comm., and safety gear.
You�d have to add the cost of a new twin-axle trailer
and a matching but older tractor vehicle of say 10,000
lbs. towing capacity for some extra margin, with the
latter�s cost likely refreshingly low with the glut of
aging SUV, Mall-Mom Battlewagons, and regular supply
of corporate and governmental Subur- bans and
full-size one-ton-plus vans. Four-wheel drive would
not be an absolute necessity using the technique we�ve
advocated for launching and hauling the trailer at the
ramp via a winch on the tow vehicle safely chocked
high up on the level (see MAIB Vol. 17, No. 20, March
1, 2000). An old "million miles" one-ton-plus Suburban
bought at auc- tion from the utility company could
handle it, even with limited life expectancy beyond a
few hundred hauling miles a year.
The client, living on Puget Sound, cited increasingly
bad sailing weather due to climate change as favoring
a power boat (?), decided not to go ahead with the
project. Perhaps the partial realization (on paper) of
his dream drove home certain at least initially
intimidat- ing aspects of such an unusual project
induc- ing perhaps more awe than wonder.
We hope to get back on it sometime as we savor the
thought of a fleet of these trailer-sailers competing
against each other in regional and national regattas.
Since she can actually be cruised by four, a family,
circle of friends, or a company�s hardcore sailing
nuts, there would be ways to rationalize such a
project. Any "syndicates" out there able to sponsor
and construct a complete rig of boat, trailer, and
tractor? No doubt someone will become the coordinator
of a national class of Insolent 60s.
> MAIB article. Is itSee the attachment pasted below!
> available anywhere?
[but first...]
The I60 is Bolgers most audacious
boat yet. Imagine a racing sailboat
competitive with boats costing 1000%
more.
At this point in PCB's career,
he can pick and choose which
boats to focus on, and one he
chooses is the I60.
David, have you estimated a budget?
Is Susan still planning to build one
too?
Can the I60 be sailed single handed?
Does she have net positive buoyancy
if she was flooded?
How will she sail with the ballast fin
in the 'up' position?
Do the folded 'skiffs' still touch
stem to stern, or do they offset?
Could you share, please, the newest
details of the geometry of the folding
fin?
It seems clear, that you need an artist
and a craftsman to make the sails, have
you selected a good one?
Have the sailboat racing rule committees
learned of this outrage, and have they
re-written their rules yet to deflect
the insolent affront?
When I showed the cartoon of this design
to my sailboat racer friend, he comtemplated
it for a minute and said:
"Well you might win some races, but you
won't get invited to any after-race cocktail
parties."
===== pasted text below =====
Messing About in Boats
Phil Bolger and Friends
Bolger on Design
Insolent 60
A Maximum Trailer Sailer
62�0" length overall
59�5" length on deck
29� 11" length folded
7�6" extreme breadth
6�0" bottom breadth
7�8" draft with full fin keel
1' 6" draft with fin keel raised
10' 7" bridge clearance on road trailer
7000 lbs. full load displacement,
including 3000 lbs. on the bottom of the fin
815 sq. ft. working sail area
1017 sq. ft. with main staysail
"A sense of wonder" was the primary aim of the client
of Puget Sound who commissioned this design study. He
wanted to sail something long and narrow that would
stand out in any circumstances, but especially in
action. He had in mind a big fin-keel sharpie like an
enlarged Ray Hunt 110, but not so stark in style and
rig. He had already had a lot of fun exploring various
aesthetic possibilities and we saw having ours as
well. So far easy and fun.
But then the plot thickened. It had to be built in a
very small shop on a tight budget. And in further
discussion it became clear that paying for such a long
berth anywhere near civilization was not on the budget
either, dictating routine road hauling with launching
and retrieving sessions associated with each sail,
with a craft of that length?
This last requirement meant that all the components,
including the spars, had to come within the 33� length
for civilian trailers, with- out special permits in
many states, from the after end to the trailer hitch,
and that the bridge clearance on the trailer had to be
within legal limits as well. The height limit, plus
the desir- ability of hauling up on the trailer at a
low angle, dictated the 6� chine breadth, to run low
between the wheels of the trailer (although by now
we�d see a way for a wider hull under legal height
limits).
Keeping her upright and sailing would require a
serious but retractable ballast keel arrangement able
to approach a public ramp under power. By way of a
concession, the accommodations could be spartan,
though it was stipulated that she have four berths, a
rudimentary galley, and an enclosed toilet room for
overnight and weekend outings, unlike many sportive
devices afloat she would have to be cruisable. We
found this challenge intriguing. The idea of making it
possible to cut a dash in speed and spectacle in the
company of the millionaires� yachts with a boat almost
farcically cheap by comparison, both in first cost and
running costs, was very much to our taste. The big
yachts are great, but if they were a lot cheaper to
build and use, say by a couple of orders of magnitude,
and did not take up scarce berthing and mooring space,
there could be a lot more of them. And it eventually
came to look doable.
She would have to be a three-piece folding Sharpie
Schooner. In the context of other successful folding
and module-based projects in the past, this craft
would be the longest yet, albeit with relatively
limited complexity and actual mechanical drama. The
main hull is a box very slightly tapered at each end,
nearly 30� long. Hinged on each end is a light, empty
fairing, 15�3" forward and 14� aft, that folds over on
top of the main hull. The unusual profile of the main
hull�s deckhouse is to accept the folded-over stem
section within the height limit. The rudder on the
after end can be swung to clear the folded-over
forward end. The ends are light and there is an
assumption that this boat will not be short-handed,
but on this scale we were looking at 12V DC powered
hydraulic jacks to control and synchronize power
necessary to initiate and control the folding process,
likely making it faster right after launching, and
more reliable, and thus safer with wind conditions
less of a scary notion.
The schooner rig was chosen because it can set the
most effective area of any usual rig for its overall
height (effect on stability) and for the length of its
masts (to be easy to raise and lower and to keep
within the stipulated trailer length). It�s especially
well-suited to hulls which are long for the sail power
they need. As the body plan shows, this hull is not
particularly narrow for her depth and weight, but she
is very long for her breadth. The old sharpie rule of
thumb was six times as long on deck as wide on the
bottom. This one is practically ten to one, like a
destroyer.
Between the long length and the very shallow body,
this hull won�t make any waves worth contemplating at
any speed, even when she is sharply heeled under a
full press of sail. Her slender shape will allow her
to far exceed nominal hull speed that is practically
10 knots in the first place. She might touch 15 knots
reaching in a breeze, sailing right by a W-Class
sloop, for instance, and with her deep fin and
well-cut sails she would not be humiliated on a dead
beat either. She also does not have very much surface
area with the keel retracted, or wind resistance with
her masts towered, so the 9.9 hp four-stroke motor
should get her 7000 lbs. around at four knots or
better.
The retracting winged fin is the key to her ability to
carry enough sail, in strong enough wind, to go fast,
especially to wind- ward. It�s a steel fabrication
with lead wings on the bottom, both carefully
foil-shaped. (In- cidentally, we�ve seen a number of
designs in which wing keels are foiled upside down,
with the apparent object of lifting the boat out of
water instead of holding her against leeway!)
The mechanical lifting geometry of the fin is arranged
in such a way that the ballast wing remains horizontal
in fore and aft plane as the keel is raised; the wing
ends up with its flattish upper side against the
bottom of the hull with enough bearing area to allow
her to sit down on it without damage. Contrariwise,
the wings are not stressed by having to stand
grounding unsupported. The connections that produce
this effect are not at all complicated, though they do
have to be precisely propor- tioned. We should hear in
the not-too-distant future how a smaller keel of this
type worked out. It was well along in fabrication the
last we heard.
Insolent 60 should be doable within a moderate
five-digit budget. Hull and rig con- struction would
be fast and simple with pre- fabrication of near all
structural members and panels possible on level and
ergonomically correct tables, leaving the hydraulics
and the keel mechanism as the focus of more intense
concentration. Figure 3000+ lbs. for ply, epoxy, and
glass, plus another 3000 lbs. for lead ballast, plus
simple unstayed rig of 815 sf, 10 hp large prop
outboard power, ground tackle, and the usual minimum
of nay., comm., and safety gear.
You�d have to add the cost of a new twin-axle trailer
and a matching but older tractor vehicle of say 10,000
lbs. towing capacity for some extra margin, with the
latter�s cost likely refreshingly low with the glut of
aging SUV, Mall-Mom Battlewagons, and regular supply
of corporate and governmental Subur- bans and
full-size one-ton-plus vans. Four-wheel drive would
not be an absolute necessity using the technique we�ve
advocated for launching and hauling the trailer at the
ramp via a winch on the tow vehicle safely chocked
high up on the level (see MAIB Vol. 17, No. 20, March
1, 2000). An old "million miles" one-ton-plus Suburban
bought at auc- tion from the utility company could
handle it, even with limited life expectancy beyond a
few hundred hauling miles a year.
The client, living on Puget Sound, cited increasingly
bad sailing weather due to climate change as favoring
a power boat (?), decided not to go ahead with the
project. Perhaps the partial realization (on paper) of
his dream drove home certain at least initially
intimidat- ing aspects of such an unusual project
induc- ing perhaps more awe than wonder.
We hope to get back on it sometime as we savor the
thought of a fleet of these trailer-sailers competing
against each other in regional and national regattas.
Since she can actually be cruised by four, a family,
circle of friends, or a company�s hardcore sailing
nuts, there would be ways to rationalize such a
project. Any "syndicates" out there able to sponsor
and construct a complete rig of boat, trailer, and
tractor? No doubt someone will become the coordinator
of a national class of Insolent 60s.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
available anywhere?
The resemblance of the center section to a WSJ was immediately
apparent to me also - so I saw it as a pram bowed WSJ with half a 15
foot schooner attached to each end. Having never seen a cartoon of
how it folds I assumed the two ends had to transported separately as
I could not envison them folding further than about 90 degrees
upwards because of the rigging and the house getting in the way.
So when you mentioned touring Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and being
able to use it like a fifth wheel trailer it was a bit surprising.
However I can see taking it up there and launching it and sailing for
the summer in one area. And don't forget Prince Edward Island which
has lots of potato gun ammo and a raiding trip to Anticosti -
which is still owned by France:-)
Out here on the Great Plains a lot of the farmers have long goose
neck trailers as well as 5th wheel camping trailers that they haul
with the same truck. And they are also avid fisherman so some have a
truck camper and tow a boat. And you often see them towing a boat
behind the 5th wheel trailer.
I have often wondered why they would not instead have a truck camper
mounted on the forward end of the goose neck and carry the boat
further back on the same trailer.
Once the boat was launched the empty area of the trailer could be
used as a patio with your camper, complete with table, umbrella and
even a fire pit with your own wood pile, barbeque and filleting table.
One guy often goes past my front door and he has a goose neck that
must be about 40 feet long and has three axles. He pulls it with
his "Big Dually" desiel. I keep imagining that it would be perfect
for a Loose Moose:-)
Cheers, Nels
> A couple other things:each
>
> 1) To get an idea of how cushy life in the I60s cabin will be, you
> have to see The Jochem's Schooner video. My chief objection the
> Jochem's Schooner had been it's lack of outdoor lounging space, but
> the cabin on the Jochems is pure genius. All the shelter of being
> below decks, without having to go below decks. In many ways the I60
> is nothing more than a Jochem's with a pair of diablos tacked on
> end (and a big-ass keel). Now you've got the cushy glasshousecabin,
> a 15 foot "patio" for and aft, and the sail area and rightingmoment
> to make real use of the 60 foot waterline!Yes I reviewed all the info but have not read the MAIB article. Is it
>
> 2) The MAIB cartoon and other info on the I60 can be seen at:
>
>http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
>
available anywhere?
The resemblance of the center section to a WSJ was immediately
apparent to me also - so I saw it as a pram bowed WSJ with half a 15
foot schooner attached to each end. Having never seen a cartoon of
how it folds I assumed the two ends had to transported separately as
I could not envison them folding further than about 90 degrees
upwards because of the rigging and the house getting in the way.
So when you mentioned touring Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and being
able to use it like a fifth wheel trailer it was a bit surprising.
However I can see taking it up there and launching it and sailing for
the summer in one area. And don't forget Prince Edward Island which
has lots of potato gun ammo and a raiding trip to Anticosti -
which is still owned by France:-)
Out here on the Great Plains a lot of the farmers have long goose
neck trailers as well as 5th wheel camping trailers that they haul
with the same truck. And they are also avid fisherman so some have a
truck camper and tow a boat. And you often see them towing a boat
behind the 5th wheel trailer.
I have often wondered why they would not instead have a truck camper
mounted on the forward end of the goose neck and carry the boat
further back on the same trailer.
Once the boat was launched the empty area of the trailer could be
used as a patio with your camper, complete with table, umbrella and
even a fire pit with your own wood pile, barbeque and filleting table.
One guy often goes past my front door and he has a goose neck that
must be about 40 feet long and has three axles. He pulls it with
his "Big Dually" desiel. I keep imagining that it would be perfect
for a Loose Moose:-)
Cheers, Nels
A couple other things:
1) To get an idea of how cushy life in the I60s cabin will be, you
have to see The Jochem's Schooner video. My chief objection the
Jochem's Schooner had been it's lack of outdoor lounging space, but
the cabin on the Jochems is pure genius. All the shelter of being
below decks, without having to go below decks. In many ways the I60
is nothing more than a Jochem's with a pair of diablos tacked on each
end (and a big-ass keel). Now you've got the cushy glasshouse cabin,
a 15 foot "patio" for and aft, and the sail area and righting moment
to make real use of the 60 foot waterline!
2) The MAIB cartoon and other info on the I60 can be seen at:
http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
1) To get an idea of how cushy life in the I60s cabin will be, you
have to see The Jochem's Schooner video. My chief objection the
Jochem's Schooner had been it's lack of outdoor lounging space, but
the cabin on the Jochems is pure genius. All the shelter of being
below decks, without having to go below decks. In many ways the I60
is nothing more than a Jochem's with a pair of diablos tacked on each
end (and a big-ass keel). Now you've got the cushy glasshouse cabin,
a 15 foot "patio" for and aft, and the sail area and righting moment
to make real use of the 60 foot waterline!
2) The MAIB cartoon and other info on the I60 can be seen at:
http://www.crumblingempire.com/insolent
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
---------------
Two things come to mind (Well three actually) about using the I60 as
a trailer sailer. First, can it be camped in when folded, or does one
have to launch it first? If so, what does one do if there is no boat
launch in the campground?
------------------
The masts fold into the cabin when it's folded, so I don't think
camping in the I60 would be comfortable if even possible
----------------------
Second, finding a slip for that length of boat may be a challenge if
one wanted to stay at a marina for awhile and get an electric hook-up.
----------------------
Marina? Slip? Phooey! Maybe R.V. is the wrong analogy. Perhaps
portable rustic cabin is better. We may have some minor sort of power
system for after hours lighting, but I don't see a fridge or T.V.
being a part of the boat. When I worked as a river guide I learned
that will a little planning you can go for 10 days off the grid and
still have ice cream with every meal.
But seriously, the chief appeal of this boat for me is that I get to
have a 60 foot schooner without (most) of attendant liabilities.
Mooring? Out here a slip for a 60 foot boat would cost much more than
my house payment. But keel up the boat draws two feet of water, which
will let me keep her in any number of sheltered coves at no cost.
Winter storage near the water is similar expensive, but she folds up
and goes on a trailer. Being able to drag her even 1/4 mile away from
the water's edge means storage will go down precipitously. Worse
case, she'll fit in my driveway.
What is the all-up weight of the boat?
I believe the entire contraption is hoped to be less that 5 tons.
Keep in mind she's really a 30 footer with two 15 foot skiffs
attached at each end. The probably won't be that much heavier than a
couple of Windsprints.
----------------------
The reason I am asking is that there seems to be an upper limit as to
what is really practical as a trailer sailer, both in weight and
length. Not so much when it is on the trailer, but getting it off and
onto the trailer at various boat ramps that are not designed for
boats over about 20 feet - is the real challenge.
----------------------
I was also skeptical about the practical aspect of recreational
trailering the boat. I would NEVER own a boat that depended on being
trailered to be enjoyed. But during our recent trip to Nova Scotia
and Newfoundland I started to see the possibilities that being able
to move the boat over land offered. Also, we found that even the
smallest villages have facilities for getting rather large boats in
and out of the water. Would I choose a 60 foot folding schooner as a
trailer boat? No, in fact I'd never own a trailer boat. I don't even
like cartopping. But the fact that the I60 is trailerable offers some
exciting possibilities!
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Two things come to mind (Well three actually) about using the I60 as
a trailer sailer. First, can it be camped in when folded, or does one
have to launch it first? If so, what does one do if there is no boat
launch in the campground?
------------------
The masts fold into the cabin when it's folded, so I don't think
camping in the I60 would be comfortable if even possible
----------------------
Second, finding a slip for that length of boat may be a challenge if
one wanted to stay at a marina for awhile and get an electric hook-up.
----------------------
Marina? Slip? Phooey! Maybe R.V. is the wrong analogy. Perhaps
portable rustic cabin is better. We may have some minor sort of power
system for after hours lighting, but I don't see a fridge or T.V.
being a part of the boat. When I worked as a river guide I learned
that will a little planning you can go for 10 days off the grid and
still have ice cream with every meal.
But seriously, the chief appeal of this boat for me is that I get to
have a 60 foot schooner without (most) of attendant liabilities.
Mooring? Out here a slip for a 60 foot boat would cost much more than
my house payment. But keel up the boat draws two feet of water, which
will let me keep her in any number of sheltered coves at no cost.
Winter storage near the water is similar expensive, but she folds up
and goes on a trailer. Being able to drag her even 1/4 mile away from
the water's edge means storage will go down precipitously. Worse
case, she'll fit in my driveway.
What is the all-up weight of the boat?
I believe the entire contraption is hoped to be less that 5 tons.
Keep in mind she's really a 30 footer with two 15 foot skiffs
attached at each end. The probably won't be that much heavier than a
couple of Windsprints.
----------------------
The reason I am asking is that there seems to be an upper limit as to
what is really practical as a trailer sailer, both in weight and
length. Not so much when it is on the trailer, but getting it off and
onto the trailer at various boat ramps that are not designed for
boats over about 20 feet - is the real challenge.
----------------------
I was also skeptical about the practical aspect of recreational
trailering the boat. I would NEVER own a boat that depended on being
trailered to be enjoyed. But during our recent trip to Nova Scotia
and Newfoundland I started to see the possibilities that being able
to move the boat over land offered. Also, we found that even the
smallest villages have facilities for getting rather large boats in
and out of the water. Would I choose a 60 foot folding schooner as a
trailer boat? No, in fact I'd never own a trailer boat. I don't even
like cartopping. But the fact that the I60 is trailerable offers some
exciting possibilities!
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
But at 60' that would cost a pretty penny in most marinas. --FrankB
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bell [mailto:smallboatdesigner@...]
Having recently gained some experience trailering a large (27' LOA, but
not
particularly heavy at #3500 lbs all up) boat, I concur with Nels. Towing
such a large boat is no picnic. Do not underestimate the wind resistance.
Our boat is 8.5' wide and 8.5' high on the trailer. It takes a very
powerful
tow vehicle if you need to go very far or at any speed over about 40 mph.
Think big 1 ton Diesel pickup. We've got the boat in a slip now. I can
tell
you, that's the much easier way to go.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bell [mailto:smallboatdesigner@...]
Having recently gained some experience trailering a large (27' LOA, but
not
particularly heavy at #3500 lbs all up) boat, I concur with Nels. Towing
such a large boat is no picnic. Do not underestimate the wind resistance.
Our boat is 8.5' wide and 8.5' high on the trailer. It takes a very
powerful
tow vehicle if you need to go very far or at any speed over about 40 mph.
Think big 1 ton Diesel pickup. We've got the boat in a slip now. I can
tell
you, that's the much easier way to go.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Having recently gained some experience trailering a large (27' LOA, but not
particularly heavy at #3500 lbs all up) boat, I concur with Nels. Towing
such a large boat is no picnic. Do not underestimate the wind resistance.
Our boat is 8.5' wide and 8.5' high on the trailer. It takes a very powerful
tow vehicle if you need to go very far or at any speed over about 40 mph.
Think big 1 ton Diesel pickup. We've got the boat in a slip now. I can tell
you, that's the much easier way to go.
particularly heavy at #3500 lbs all up) boat, I concur with Nels. Towing
such a large boat is no picnic. Do not underestimate the wind resistance.
Our boat is 8.5' wide and 8.5' high on the trailer. It takes a very powerful
tow vehicle if you need to go very far or at any speed over about 40 mph.
Think big 1 ton Diesel pickup. We've got the boat in a slip now. I can tell
you, that's the much easier way to go.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:25 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: I60 News
| --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
| > However, since our trip through Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, I've
| > begun to think of the I60 as a fifth wheel motor home that will do
| 15
| > knots under sail power. Almost anywhere we might go along the
| > Atlantic seaboard, the I60 would provide a dry, comfortable place
| to
| > cook and sleep, with the added bonus of making a pretty spectacular
| > boat. No worrying about stowing motor scooters in the bow; the tow
| > vehicle will give us a way to explore everything above the high
| tide
| > line. I guess that's what PCP meant when he described it as "a
| > high-tech recreational vehicle.
| >
| > YIBB,
| >
| > David
| ) 247-0296
|
| Two things come to mind (Well three actually) about using the I60 as
| a trailer sailer. First, can it be camped in when folded, or does one
| have to launch it first? If so, what does one do if there is no boat
| launch in the campground?
|
| Second, finding a slip for that length of boat may be a challenge if
| one wanted to stay at a marina for awhile and get an electric hook-up.
|
| What is the all-up weight of the boat?
|
| The reason I am asking is that there seems to be an upper limit as to
| what is really practical as a trailer sailer, both in weight and
| length. Not so much when it is on the trailer, but getting it off and
| onto the trailer at various boat ramps that are not designed for
| boats over about 20 feet - is the real challenge.
|
| I'm sure this has all been worked out. I just can't seem to be able
| to envision the launching/retrieval procedures, first, in folding
| and unfolding it, and also the how easily will the keel slide off and
| onto the trailer?
|
| Nels
|
|
|
|
| Bolger rules!!!
| - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
| - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
| - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
| - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
| - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
| - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
Two things come to mind (Well three actually) about using the I60 as
a trailer sailer. First, can it be camped in when folded, or does one
have to launch it first? If so, what does one do if there is no boat
launch in the campground?
Second, finding a slip for that length of boat may be a challenge if
one wanted to stay at a marina for awhile and get an electric hook-up.
What is the all-up weight of the boat?
The reason I am asking is that there seems to be an upper limit as to
what is really practical as a trailer sailer, both in weight and
length. Not so much when it is on the trailer, but getting it off and
onto the trailer at various boat ramps that are not designed for
boats over about 20 feet - is the real challenge.
I'm sure this has all been worked out. I just can't seem to be able
to envision the launching/retrieval procedures, first, in folding
and unfolding it, and also the how easily will the keel slide off and
onto the trailer?
Nels
> However, since our trip through Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, I've15
> begun to think of the I60 as a fifth wheel motor home that will do
> knots under sail power. Almost anywhere we might go along theto
> Atlantic seaboard, the I60 would provide a dry, comfortable place
> cook and sleep, with the added bonus of making a pretty spectaculartide
> boat. No worrying about stowing motor scooters in the bow; the tow
> vehicle will give us a way to explore everything above the high
> line. I guess that's what PCP meant when he described it as "a) 247-0296
> high-tech recreational vehicle.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
Two things come to mind (Well three actually) about using the I60 as
a trailer sailer. First, can it be camped in when folded, or does one
have to launch it first? If so, what does one do if there is no boat
launch in the campground?
Second, finding a slip for that length of boat may be a challenge if
one wanted to stay at a marina for awhile and get an electric hook-up.
What is the all-up weight of the boat?
The reason I am asking is that there seems to be an upper limit as to
what is really practical as a trailer sailer, both in weight and
length. Not so much when it is on the trailer, but getting it off and
onto the trailer at various boat ramps that are not designed for
boats over about 20 feet - is the real challenge.
I'm sure this has all been worked out. I just can't seem to be able
to envision the launching/retrieval procedures, first, in folding
and unfolding it, and also the how easily will the keel slide off and
onto the trailer?
Nels
Its the Insolent 60, hence I60 designation, a 60' trailerable,''fold-up'' (sorry for no better explanation) Sharpie derived Schooner with Bolger's usual innovations. Bolger is currently completing the design for David Ryan( a member of this Yahoo group)
Frank Bales <fbales@...> wrote:I must've missed something. What is the I60 in recent posts?
Illinois? --FrankB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Frank Bales <fbales@...> wrote:I must've missed something. What is the I60 in recent posts?
Illinois? --FrankB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks Hugo. Bolger Amazes again, eh? --FrankB
-----Original Message-----
From: Hugo Tyson [mailto:hhetyson@...]
Its the Insolent 60, hence I60 designation, a 60' trailerable,''fold-up''
(sorry for no better explanation) Sharpie derived Schooner with Bolger's
usual innovations. Bolger is currently completing the design for David
Ryan( a member of this Yahoo group)
Frank Bales <fbales@...> wrote:I must've missed something. What is
the I60 in recent posts?
Illinois? --Fran kB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-----Original Message-----
From: Hugo Tyson [mailto:hhetyson@...]
Its the Insolent 60, hence I60 designation, a 60' trailerable,''fold-up''
(sorry for no better explanation) Sharpie derived Schooner with Bolger's
usual innovations. Bolger is currently completing the design for David
Ryan( a member of this Yahoo group)
Frank Bales <fbales@...> wrote:I must've missed something. What is
the I60 in recent posts?
Illinois? --Fran kB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I must've missed something. What is the I60 in recent posts?
Illinois? --FrankB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Illinois? --FrankB
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
PCP ?? an unfortunate typo !!!!
Typo? No. Speculation on how he gets his crazy ideas! ;-)
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Typo? No. Speculation on how he gets his crazy ideas! ;-)
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
PCP ?? an unfortunate typo !!!!
David Ryan <david@...> wrote: I guess that's what PCP meant when he described it as "a
high-tech recreational vehicle.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
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Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
- New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
David Ryan <david@...> wrote: I guess that's what PCP meant when he described it as "a
high-tech recreational vehicle.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
- New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have heard that a keel like the I60 has already been installed on a
Bolger design. Have you heard from the person who did this?
In the original MAIB article Bolger wrote about a boat down in FLA
that had a more or less 1/2 scale version of the swing keel. Since
then that boat has been to sea and performed more or less as
expected. According to PCB there were some lessons learn that are
being incorporated into the I60 keel design.
Though we've yet to see drawings, the boat as described by PCB has
more than a few changes from the cartoon in MAIB. To accommodate my
and Sue's desire for a "hotrod light cruiser" there have been changes
to the rig, beam, stern shape, house, keel, and interior.
PCB has also sought to make the boat handier as a trailer boat.
Initially my excitement about the folding/trailering feature was that
it offered a simple solution to the most expensive aspect of having a
big boat -- what to do with it in the off-season.
However, since our trip through Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, I've
begun to think of the I60 as a fifth wheel motor home that will do 15
knots under sail power. Almost anywhere we might go along the
Atlantic seaboard, the I60 would provide a dry, comfortable place to
cook and sleep, with the added bonus of making a pretty spectacular
boat. No worrying about stowing motor scooters in the bow; the tow
vehicle will give us a way to explore everything above the high tide
line. I guess that's what PCP meant when he described it as "a
high-tech recreational vehicle.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
Bolger design. Have you heard from the person who did this?
In the original MAIB article Bolger wrote about a boat down in FLA
that had a more or less 1/2 scale version of the swing keel. Since
then that boat has been to sea and performed more or less as
expected. According to PCB there were some lessons learn that are
being incorporated into the I60 keel design.
Though we've yet to see drawings, the boat as described by PCB has
more than a few changes from the cartoon in MAIB. To accommodate my
and Sue's desire for a "hotrod light cruiser" there have been changes
to the rig, beam, stern shape, house, keel, and interior.
PCB has also sought to make the boat handier as a trailer boat.
Initially my excitement about the folding/trailering feature was that
it offered a simple solution to the most expensive aspect of having a
big boat -- what to do with it in the off-season.
However, since our trip through Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, I've
begun to think of the I60 as a fifth wheel motor home that will do 15
knots under sail power. Almost anywhere we might go along the
Atlantic seaboard, the I60 would provide a dry, comfortable place to
cook and sleep, with the added bonus of making a pretty spectacular
boat. No worrying about stowing motor scooters in the bow; the tow
vehicle will give us a way to explore everything above the high tide
line. I guess that's what PCP meant when he described it as "a
high-tech recreational vehicle.
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
OTOH I just may take off and go with a two day notice:-)
I have heard that a keel like the I60 has already been installed on a
Bolger design. Have you heard from the person who did this?
Nels
> FBBB,of
>
> With luck
> these could all be ready by early Summer, when the middle section
> would be built "barn-raising" style by a gang of visiting members
> the Bolger List. What fun it will be to sail (or drive!) thefinished
> boat to Gloucester sometime next Summer and finally meet you two inCount me in - I would require about a two month notice if possible.
> person."
>
> You don't often get a chance to be a part of a driveway-built, 60
> foot schooner. Who's with me!?!
>
> YIBB,
>
> David
> --
OTOH I just may take off and go with a two day notice:-)
I have heard that a keel like the I60 has already been installed on a
Bolger design. Have you heard from the person who did this?
Nels
> C.E.P.
> 415 W.46th Street
> New York, New York 10036
>http://www.crumblingempire.com
> Mobile (646) 325-8325
> Office (212) 247-0296
FBBB,
I just received a short note from Gloucester; part apology for
delays, and part assurance that work continues on the design and that
we're very close to seeing "enough to at least start building
components." Below is part of my response, where you can see I'm
putting the list on the hook for getting this boat sailing by
sometime next Summer!
"My hope is that rudder, spars, cleats, blocks, and perhaps
even the fore and aft sections can be fabricated this Winter as
defense against the ravages of seasonal affective disorder, and that
during this time the keel/ballast wing would be farmed out. With luck
these could all be ready by early Summer, when the middle section
would be built "barn-raising" style by a gang of visiting members of
the Bolger List. What fun it will be to sail (or drive!) the finished
boat to Gloucester sometime next Summer and finally meet you two in
person."
You don't often get a chance to be a part of a driveway-built, 60
foot schooner. Who's with me!?!
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296
I just received a short note from Gloucester; part apology for
delays, and part assurance that work continues on the design and that
we're very close to seeing "enough to at least start building
components." Below is part of my response, where you can see I'm
putting the list on the hook for getting this boat sailing by
sometime next Summer!
"My hope is that rudder, spars, cleats, blocks, and perhaps
even the fore and aft sections can be fabricated this Winter as
defense against the ravages of seasonal affective disorder, and that
during this time the keel/ballast wing would be farmed out. With luck
these could all be ready by early Summer, when the middle section
would be built "barn-raising" style by a gang of visiting members of
the Bolger List. What fun it will be to sail (or drive!) the finished
boat to Gloucester sometime next Summer and finally meet you two in
person."
You don't often get a chance to be a part of a driveway-built, 60
foot schooner. Who's with me!?!
YIBB,
David
--
C.E.P.
415 W.46th Street
New York, New York 10036
http://www.crumblingempire.com
Mobile (646) 325-8325
Office (212) 247-0296