[bolger] Re: Canvas as sail material?
Jack,
I've made a couple of sails of polytarp last summer. Yes, it is
sewable and tape able. I used double stick fiberglass reinforced carpet
tape with good results. I used Jim Michalak's dart method of giving
shape to my Wind Sprint type balanced lug sail 117 ft sq. I made this
sail of a dark green poly and at least here in Florida it got so hot in
the direct sun then it softened the glue on the tape and some corners
started to lift. I went back and sewed all edges - so it's a bit of the
belt & suspenders solution now. I've since acquired some white polytarp
at a flea market that I've yet to try. I suspect the white will stay
cooler and not need stitching. I'm also eager to try some Tyvek as the
final product seems more sail like and less wrinkle prone, though that's
just a guess. I think these inexpensive materials are a great way to
learn about sail making. For 10 or 20 bucks and a few hours of enjoyable
work you end up with a very service able sail. The low investment also
encourages "tweaking" and endless experimentation... upsides and
downsides to that of course....;-)
David
Chuck Leinweber wrote:
SOME CLICKS THAT COUNT!!
Feed someone.
http://www.thehungersite.com/
Save a little rain forest.
http://rainforest.care2.com/front.html/player12296
Simplicity Boats (& mirror sites)
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/index.html
http://members.xoom.com/simpleboats/index.html
Here's my latest boat:
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/featherwind.html
http://members.xoom.com/simpleboats/featherwind.html
Quasi esoteric musical instruments
http://unicornstrings.com
I've made a couple of sails of polytarp last summer. Yes, it is
sewable and tape able. I used double stick fiberglass reinforced carpet
tape with good results. I used Jim Michalak's dart method of giving
shape to my Wind Sprint type balanced lug sail 117 ft sq. I made this
sail of a dark green poly and at least here in Florida it got so hot in
the direct sun then it softened the glue on the tape and some corners
started to lift. I went back and sewed all edges - so it's a bit of the
belt & suspenders solution now. I've since acquired some white polytarp
at a flea market that I've yet to try. I suspect the white will stay
cooler and not need stitching. I'm also eager to try some Tyvek as the
final product seems more sail like and less wrinkle prone, though that's
just a guess. I think these inexpensive materials are a great way to
learn about sail making. For 10 or 20 bucks and a few hours of enjoyable
work you end up with a very service able sail. The low investment also
encourages "tweaking" and endless experimentation... upsides and
downsides to that of course....;-)
David
Chuck Leinweber wrote:
>--
>
> >I'd be
> > interested in knowing if people have taken the trouble to construct a
> > carefully crafted sail from polytarp, tyvec, etc...multiple cambered
> seams,
> > multiple layered corners, and everything. Is it worth the trouble? Are
> these
> > materials sewable? Can you heat seal or glue them? Seems they could lend
> > themselves to being a great way for the aspiring sail maker to learn the
> > craft without wasting a lot of dacron and $$ in the process.
> >
> > jeb, not fooled for a minute by the tropically warm February weather on
> the
> > shores of Fundy
>
> Jack:
>
> Some polytarp sailmakers are creating shape by the simple process of making
> darts in them. I have not made but one polytarp sail a number of years ago,
> but will soon need another one for my Caprice. I plan to use this method.
> Jim Michalak has written about this subject:
>http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/1015/index.htm
>
>
> Chuck Leinweber
> Duckworks Magazine
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [For the latest news and tips, click here.]
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SOME CLICKS THAT COUNT!!
Feed someone.
http://www.thehungersite.com/
Save a little rain forest.
http://rainforest.care2.com/front.html/player12296
Simplicity Boats (& mirror sites)
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/index.html
http://members.xoom.com/simpleboats/index.html
Here's my latest boat:
http://members.tripod.com/simplicityboats/featherwind.html
http://members.xoom.com/simpleboats/featherwind.html
Quasi esoteric musical instruments
http://unicornstrings.com
No. You gotta please yourself.
blake sartin asked:
blake sartin asked:
> Am I placing too much emphasis on visual beauty?
>
> Blake
> Knoxville, TN
Blake,
You can purchase plain, off-white Tyvek in sixty inch widths for $2.50 a
running
yard ($2.25 for 12+ yards) from _Into The Wind_, a kite hobbyist supply
company.
They have a website: <http://www.intothewind@com/>. The website doesn't
have the
Tyvek listed, or much else, but you can place a request for their
mail-order
catalog from there, or just write them via E-mail at:
<kites@...>. I
have no financial connection with these folks, btw. This tyvek is off
white and
looks sorta like Egyptian cotton from a distance... well, maybe not, but
there
are no huge logos on it. It can be sewn, glued with contact or rubber
cement, or
taped with double faced indoor/outdoor carpet tape. Good instructions
for making Tyvek sails can be found at:
<http://cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/Tyvek/index.html>. I haven't used the
stuff to make sails, but I have made backpacking tents out of it and it
works well,
certainly better than six mil polyethylene sheeting. A standard cotton
canvas dropcloth could also work, but might be to stretchy to maintain a
good shape. As for rubber impregnated canvas, it sounds heavy, but I
don't know. Try comparing the weight of the stuff to the weight of a
similar sized blue polytarp. If it weighs much more, it's probably too
much, imho,
david
PS: With boats, even Bolger boxes, aesthetics are always a
consideration; you
are not wrong in seeking visual beauty. Your boat _should_ be beautiful,
if only
to you....
Blake Sartin wrote:
You can purchase plain, off-white Tyvek in sixty inch widths for $2.50 a
running
yard ($2.25 for 12+ yards) from _Into The Wind_, a kite hobbyist supply
company.
They have a website: <http://www.intothewind@com/>. The website doesn't
have the
Tyvek listed, or much else, but you can place a request for their
mail-order
catalog from there, or just write them via E-mail at:
<kites@...>. I
have no financial connection with these folks, btw. This tyvek is off
white and
looks sorta like Egyptian cotton from a distance... well, maybe not, but
there
are no huge logos on it. It can be sewn, glued with contact or rubber
cement, or
taped with double faced indoor/outdoor carpet tape. Good instructions
for making Tyvek sails can be found at:
<http://cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/Tyvek/index.html>. I haven't used the
stuff to make sails, but I have made backpacking tents out of it and it
works well,
certainly better than six mil polyethylene sheeting. A standard cotton
canvas dropcloth could also work, but might be to stretchy to maintain a
good shape. As for rubber impregnated canvas, it sounds heavy, but I
don't know. Try comparing the weight of the stuff to the weight of a
similar sized blue polytarp. If it weighs much more, it's probably too
much, imho,
david
PS: With boats, even Bolger boxes, aesthetics are always a
consideration; you
are not wrong in seeking visual beauty. Your boat _should_ be beautiful,
if only
to you....
Blake Sartin wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has experience using the butyl-rubber impregnated
> canvas dropcloth (or the standard canvas, for that matter) as a sail
> material?
>
> I was at the local hardware megastore yesterday and I noticed that the price
> of these dropcloths is very reasonable, and they seem to be a more "meaty"
> substance than plain old polytarp. Is this material totally unusable for a
> sail in boats of this size? Is it too heavy?
>
> I want to make my own cheap sail, just wondering if there's any good
> alternative to polytarp that is still cheap. I'm still considering
> advertizing for DuPont's Tyvek, I've heard good results from that material.
> Only thing that scares me off is the giant labels.
>
> I also read about using 6-mil plastic sheeting in the plans that I got for
> the Stevenson 3-in-1. They seem to swear by this for the lateen, but use
> blue poly exclusively on their other boats.
>
> But it seems to me that the canvas would "look" the best. Am I placing too
> much emphasis on visual beauty?
>
>
>I'd beseams,
> interested in knowing if people have taken the trouble to construct a
> carefully crafted sail from polytarp, tyvec, etc...multiple cambered
> multiple layered corners, and everything. Is it worth the trouble? Arethese
> materials sewable? Can you heat seal or glue them? Seems they could lendthe
> themselves to being a great way for the aspiring sail maker to learn the
> craft without wasting a lot of dacron and $$ in the process.
>
> jeb, not fooled for a minute by the tropically warm February weather on
> shores of FundyJack:
Some polytarp sailmakers are creating shape by the simple process of making
darts in them. I have not made but one polytarp sail a number of years ago,
but will soon need another one for my Caprice. I plan to use this method.
Jim Michalak has written about this subject:
http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/1015/index.htm
Chuck Leinweber
Duckworks Magazine
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
I made up a jib of 65 sf for my chebacco. I got the panel shapes using
shareware, the sailcut program by R. Laine.
(http://users.bart.nl/~jmlaine/sailcut/). I made several samples out of
paper to see the actual shape to help evaluate the sail parameters. The
sail itself is a rubberized fabric I got for free. I glued the panels
with contact cement. The result lasted for 1 season, I was happy with
its shape and performance. I am having a dacron sail made to the same
shape.
The program is easy to use and can make triangular or 4-sided sails. Any
panel width of fabric can be selected. You draw out the full-sized
panels, fair them, cut them, then glue or sew them together. Reinforce,
grommet, hem, and you are off.
Cheers;
Fraser Howell
shareware, the sailcut program by R. Laine.
(http://users.bart.nl/~jmlaine/sailcut/). I made several samples out of
paper to see the actual shape to help evaluate the sail parameters. The
sail itself is a rubberized fabric I got for free. I glued the panels
with contact cement. The result lasted for 1 season, I was happy with
its shape and performance. I am having a dacron sail made to the same
shape.
The program is easy to use and can make triangular or 4-sided sails. Any
panel width of fabric can be selected. You draw out the full-sized
panels, fair them, cut them, then glue or sew them together. Reinforce,
grommet, hem, and you are off.
Cheers;
Fraser Howell
I have only very limited experience with alternative sail materials. I've
got a commercially made dacron leg-o-mutton on the june bug that works like
a charm. But I've watched lots of polytarp rigs competeing in the wind
sprint and LS races at the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival. Boat for boat
the polytarps don't seem to stand a chance against those powered by sail
makers sails.I attended a sail makers workshop at the festival and developed
an appreciation for the subtlety of camber. It was obvious that the flat cut
polytarp sails simply could not hold their wind, light or heavy. Peter's
point about the sewability of canvas is an important question. I'd be
interested in knowing if people have taken the trouble to construct a
carefully crafted sail from polytarp, tyvec, etc...multiple cambered seams,
multiple layered corners, and everything. Is it worth the trouble? Are these
materials sewable? Can you heat seal or glue them? Seems they could lend
themselves to being a great way for the aspiring sail maker to learn the
craft without wasting a lot of dacron and $$ in the process.
jeb, not fooled for a minute by the tropically warm February weather on the
shores of Fundy
got a commercially made dacron leg-o-mutton on the june bug that works like
a charm. But I've watched lots of polytarp rigs competeing in the wind
sprint and LS races at the Mahone Bay Wooden Boat Festival. Boat for boat
the polytarps don't seem to stand a chance against those powered by sail
makers sails.I attended a sail makers workshop at the festival and developed
an appreciation for the subtlety of camber. It was obvious that the flat cut
polytarp sails simply could not hold their wind, light or heavy. Peter's
point about the sewability of canvas is an important question. I'd be
interested in knowing if people have taken the trouble to construct a
carefully crafted sail from polytarp, tyvec, etc...multiple cambered seams,
multiple layered corners, and everything. Is it worth the trouble? Are these
materials sewable? Can you heat seal or glue them? Seems they could lend
themselves to being a great way for the aspiring sail maker to learn the
craft without wasting a lot of dacron and $$ in the process.
jeb, not fooled for a minute by the tropically warm February weather on the
shores of Fundy
Blake,
Esthetics are such a personal thing,but I do whole heartedly
appreciate your desire for canvas,if only for the"traditional look.
Areas you may wish to reflect on before making a purchase of your
canvas might be;the weight of the material,especially should it get wet!
the ability to resist rot,especially if you are amongst the
blessed from regions considerably further south than I.
how much stretch will the canvas have and it`s effect on sail
shape
the presence of a sewing machine capable of going through
multiple layers of canvas.
your willingness to use an alternate source of propulsion in
light airs.
I did have a wonderful set of sails made for my
Elver(AAAAGGGGHHHH!the sound of me biting my tongue in shame)many years
ago by a sailmaker in Kingston Ontario and he used a polyester material
that not only had the look and texture of canvas but was also tanbark
in colour,held it`s shape over the years and never rotted out from
under me.The three sails,at that time,cost about $800.00 Canadian
dollars(or about$250.00 US! :D)
Hope this helps a wee bit in your search for good sails.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,daring to walk around outdoors with his jacket open to
the precocious suggestions of spring,on the still frozen shores of the
St.Lawrence
"blake sartin" <bsarti-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3276
Esthetics are such a personal thing,but I do whole heartedly
appreciate your desire for canvas,if only for the"traditional look.
Areas you may wish to reflect on before making a purchase of your
canvas might be;the weight of the material,especially should it get wet!
the ability to resist rot,especially if you are amongst the
blessed from regions considerably further south than I.
how much stretch will the canvas have and it`s effect on sail
shape
the presence of a sewing machine capable of going through
multiple layers of canvas.
your willingness to use an alternate source of propulsion in
light airs.
I did have a wonderful set of sails made for my
Elver(AAAAGGGGHHHH!the sound of me biting my tongue in shame)many years
ago by a sailmaker in Kingston Ontario and he used a polyester material
that not only had the look and texture of canvas but was also tanbark
in colour,held it`s shape over the years and never rotted out from
under me.The three sails,at that time,cost about $800.00 Canadian
dollars(or about$250.00 US! :D)
Hope this helps a wee bit in your search for good sails.
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,daring to walk around outdoors with his jacket open to
the precocious suggestions of spring,on the still frozen shores of the
St.Lawrence
"blake sartin" <bsarti-@...> wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=3276
> I was wondering if anyone has experience using the butyl-rubberimpregnated
> canvas dropcloth (or the standard canvas, for that matter) as a sailthe price
> material?
>
> I was at the local hardware megastore yesterday and I noticed that
> of these dropcloths is very reasonable, and they seem to be a more"meaty"
> substance than plain old polytarp. Is this material totally unusablefor a
> sail in boats of this size? Is it too heavy?material.
>
> I want to make my own cheap sail, just wondering if there's any good
> alternative to polytarp that is still cheap. I'm still considering
> advertizing for DuPont's Tyvek, I've heard good results from that
> Only thing that scares me off is the giant labels.got for
>
> I also read about using 6-mil plastic sheeting in the plans that I
> the Stevenson 3-in-1. They seem to swear by this for the lateen, butuse
> blue poly exclusively on their other boats.placing too
>
> But it seems to me that the canvas would "look" the best. Am I
> much emphasis on visual beauty?
>
> Blake
> Knoxville, TN
> (not building the Stevenson)
>
> I'm still consideringTyvek is available unlabeled. The fabric sign and banner industry is a big
> advertizing for DuPont's Tyvek, I've heard good results from that material.
> Only thing that scares me off is the giant labels.
user. I got some from a local banner maker - pure white. It cost me quite a
bit more per square foot, but I didn't have to buy the giant roll that will
cover the barn, so it wound up costing less.
BTW - I am a new member, and have been enjoying the good cheer found here
for about a week.
Michael Schacht-
Enjoying unseasonably warm and sunny weather here on Puget Sound in
Washington State.
I was wondering if anyone has experience using the butyl-rubber impregnated
canvas dropcloth (or the standard canvas, for that matter) as a sail
material?
I was at the local hardware megastore yesterday and I noticed that the price
of these dropcloths is very reasonable, and they seem to be a more "meaty"
substance than plain old polytarp. Is this material totally unusable for a
sail in boats of this size? Is it too heavy?
I want to make my own cheap sail, just wondering if there's any good
alternative to polytarp that is still cheap. I'm still considering
advertizing for DuPont's Tyvek, I've heard good results from that material.
Only thing that scares me off is the giant labels.
I also read about using 6-mil plastic sheeting in the plans that I got for
the Stevenson 3-in-1. They seem to swear by this for the lateen, but use
blue poly exclusively on their other boats.
But it seems to me that the canvas would "look" the best. Am I placing too
much emphasis on visual beauty?
Blake
Knoxville, TN
(not building the Stevenson)
canvas dropcloth (or the standard canvas, for that matter) as a sail
material?
I was at the local hardware megastore yesterday and I noticed that the price
of these dropcloths is very reasonable, and they seem to be a more "meaty"
substance than plain old polytarp. Is this material totally unusable for a
sail in boats of this size? Is it too heavy?
I want to make my own cheap sail, just wondering if there's any good
alternative to polytarp that is still cheap. I'm still considering
advertizing for DuPont's Tyvek, I've heard good results from that material.
Only thing that scares me off is the giant labels.
I also read about using 6-mil plastic sheeting in the plans that I got for
the Stevenson 3-in-1. They seem to swear by this for the lateen, but use
blue poly exclusively on their other boats.
But it seems to me that the canvas would "look" the best. Am I placing too
much emphasis on visual beauty?
Blake
Knoxville, TN
(not building the Stevenson)