Re: Plywood Canoe Yawl hull model.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, craig o'donnell <dadadata@f...> wrote:
motorwell - my post was to point out that when it is not a part of
the design it does make it awkward to use a motor.
Lots of boats are designed with motorwells and lots of boats have
been modified with them. They have a number of disadvantages and can
be downright dangerous if the person doing the mods isn't aware of
the CO and gasoline risk. They involve putting a fairly large hole in
the bottom of your boat for another thing.
Of course very experienced boaters like yourself don't need these
things pointed out to them.
A really good example of one is BREAKDOWN SCHOONER where the opening
in the motorwell is above the water line and therefor should not
affect the sailing capability or become a water scoop. However you
will also notice in that design that the rudder system is somewhat
complicated in design in order to get around the motor.
The one I like best is in the Chebacco 25 - which of course is not a
canoe yawl - but every bit as attractive to my eye:-) Also it planes
with a motor.
However, since I am mostly interested in a trailer sized boat -
having an added fairing on the ends is more of a complication than of
any real benefit.
Cheers, Nels
> A well can work on a pointed stern boat.(written
>
> Many of Chapelle's designs incorporated one. The sharpie Lightfoot
> up some years back in WoodenBoat) had one. A recent Harry Bryanboat has
> one.... etc etc.fairing
>
> In a Bolgerian sense, this is a squared-off transom with a pointy
> aft to preserve the double ended look.any
>
> Personally I'd much prefer this to an outboard hanging off aft of
> sailing boat of mine.Yes, as I already mentioned it is possible to design a boat with a
motorwell - my post was to point out that when it is not a part of
the design it does make it awkward to use a motor.
Lots of boats are designed with motorwells and lots of boats have
been modified with them. They have a number of disadvantages and can
be downright dangerous if the person doing the mods isn't aware of
the CO and gasoline risk. They involve putting a fairly large hole in
the bottom of your boat for another thing.
Of course very experienced boaters like yourself don't need these
things pointed out to them.
A really good example of one is BREAKDOWN SCHOONER where the opening
in the motorwell is above the water line and therefor should not
affect the sailing capability or become a water scoop. However you
will also notice in that design that the rudder system is somewhat
complicated in design in order to get around the motor.
The one I like best is in the Chebacco 25 - which of course is not a
canoe yawl - but every bit as attractive to my eye:-) Also it planes
with a motor.
However, since I am mostly interested in a trailer sized boat -
having an added fairing on the ends is more of a complication than of
any real benefit.
Cheers, Nels
>I know many who will argue that one can use an "offset" motorboard onA well can work on a pointed stern boat.
>a pointy stern which seems to be a reasonable alternative - until you
>actually try one and see how poorly it performs.
>
>My point is that anyone planning to build an Elver or Birdwatcher- or
>any canoe-sterned boat (Including a canoe) should consider that
>motoring with one is going to be awkward at best.
Many of Chapelle's designs incorporated one. The sharpie Lightfoot (written
up some years back in WoodenBoat) had one. A recent Harry Bryan boat has
one.... etc etc.
In a Bolgerian sense, this is a squared-off transom with a pointy fairing
aft to preserve the double ended look.
Personally I'd much prefer this to an outboard hanging off aft of any
sailing boat of mine.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Wallace <visayannz@y...> wrote:
cabin, infront of the tiller somewhere (?) Also require cutting a
hole in the bottom of the hull and figuring out some way to raise and
lower the motor and close up the hole when sailing,
Motorwells are another area that PCB has found to be a very
complicated and awkward way to add a motor to a sailing vessel.
Another option no doubt is to clamp a small electric motor to the
rudder perhaps and have the battery box under the rowing seat. But
then you have the obvious range and power limitations of an electric
motor, plus the hassle of re-charging and caring for the battery,
which also ends up in the living space.
I guess I am thinking of simple and elegant solutions to get the most
capability out of the effort and expense invested. Bolger seems to be
a master of that. He has designed enclosed motorwells, but I believe
most have been on square sterned boats like the Jochen's schooner
which is an elegant solution by the looks of it.
To me the set-ups like on the Micro and Chebacco series of designs
are the best all round solutions. The only shortcoming seems to be
the risk of the motor getting drowned by being pooped.
Cheers, Nels
> ...unless of course one were to install thatThat would require bringing the motor and gas and fumes all into the
> clean-running four-stroke in a well on Birdwatcher's
> centreline...
>
> Andrew.
>
cabin, infront of the tiller somewhere (?) Also require cutting a
hole in the bottom of the hull and figuring out some way to raise and
lower the motor and close up the hole when sailing,
Motorwells are another area that PCB has found to be a very
complicated and awkward way to add a motor to a sailing vessel.
Another option no doubt is to clamp a small electric motor to the
rudder perhaps and have the battery box under the rowing seat. But
then you have the obvious range and power limitations of an electric
motor, plus the hassle of re-charging and caring for the battery,
which also ends up in the living space.
I guess I am thinking of simple and elegant solutions to get the most
capability out of the effort and expense invested. Bolger seems to be
a master of that. He has designed enclosed motorwells, but I believe
most have been on square sterned boats like the Jochen's schooner
which is an elegant solution by the looks of it.
To me the set-ups like on the Micro and Chebacco series of designs
are the best all round solutions. The only shortcoming seems to be
the risk of the motor getting drowned by being pooped.
Cheers, Nels
--- Nels <arvent@...> wrote: > --- In
bolger@yahoogroups.com:
clean-running four-stroke in a well on Birdwatcher's
centreline...
Andrew.
http://personals.yahoo.com.au- Yahoo! Personals
New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.
bolger@yahoogroups.com:
> I know many who will argue that one can use an...unless of course one were to install that
> "offset" motorboard on
> a pointy stern which seems to be a reasonable
> alternative - until you
> actually try one and see how poorly it performs.
>
> My point is that anyone planning to build an Elver
> or Birdwatcher- or
> any canoe-sterned boat (Including a canoe) should
> consider that
> motoring with one is going to be awkward at best.
> Cheers, Nels...
clean-running four-stroke in a well on Birdwatcher's
centreline...
Andrew.
http://personals.yahoo.com.au- Yahoo! Personals
New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, craig o'donnell <dadadata@f...> wrote:
few Birwatchers that were built.
"I think the concept of an unballested boat, deriving her power to
carry sail from people sitting out at the side unders a transparent
raised deck buoyant enough to float the boat dry in a beam ends
knockdown, is genuinely novel; There has never before been a boat
with Birdwatcher's capabilities."
Then it seems he figured it out:
"A great many people are not willing to work with the limitations of
oars. Some people are really confronted with situations for which
oars are inadequate, others have learned to deal with the problems of
motors and aren't interested in beginning a new course on oars."
It seems to me that realization has affected almost all of his
designs since then and he makes a real effort to design his sailing
craft to carry a motor in the best possible location to give the best
possible performance as a motorsailer.
Now with the popularity and development of small,quiet,very efficient
4 stroke outboards - these plans are even more practical. He has
shown that a square stern, properly raised and tapered, is just as
efficient as a canoe stern and allows the motor to be installed on
the centerline.
I know many who will argue that one can use an "offset" motorboard on
a pointy stern which seems to be a reasonable alternative - until you
actually try one and see how poorly it performs.
My point is that anyone planning to build an Elver or Birdwatcher- or
any canoe-sterned boat (Including a canoe) should consider that
motoring with one is going to be awkward at best.
Cheers, Nels
> Seeing it in 3D reminds me of the CLC "Skerry" kit. Someonecreative could
> take a plain skerry kit (16ft) or the plans for same and make asmall canoe
> yawl from it. Canoe yawls were as short as 13ft, after all.like
>
> One advantage of the Skerry is the flat bottom panel (in this it is
> the Steve Redmond Elver).It seems that one of PCB's biggest frustrations was the relatively
few Birwatchers that were built.
"I think the concept of an unballested boat, deriving her power to
carry sail from people sitting out at the side unders a transparent
raised deck buoyant enough to float the boat dry in a beam ends
knockdown, is genuinely novel; There has never before been a boat
with Birdwatcher's capabilities."
Then it seems he figured it out:
"A great many people are not willing to work with the limitations of
oars. Some people are really confronted with situations for which
oars are inadequate, others have learned to deal with the problems of
motors and aren't interested in beginning a new course on oars."
It seems to me that realization has affected almost all of his
designs since then and he makes a real effort to design his sailing
craft to carry a motor in the best possible location to give the best
possible performance as a motorsailer.
Now with the popularity and development of small,quiet,very efficient
4 stroke outboards - these plans are even more practical. He has
shown that a square stern, properly raised and tapered, is just as
efficient as a canoe stern and allows the motor to be installed on
the centerline.
I know many who will argue that one can use an "offset" motorboard on
a pointy stern which seems to be a reasonable alternative - until you
actually try one and see how poorly it performs.
My point is that anyone planning to build an Elver or Birdwatcher- or
any canoe-sterned boat (Including a canoe) should consider that
motoring with one is going to be awkward at best.
Cheers, Nels
>I see the 19'4" hull as about twice asSeeing it in 3D reminds me of the CLC "Skerry" kit. Someone creative could
>complex as building a Glouchester
>Light Dory 15'6", plus that much work
>again for the rudder and yards.
>
>I found the expanded shape of the
>panels to be clean, simple and
>nearly symetrical, Bolger is a
>genius.
take a plain skerry kit (16ft) or the plans for same and make a small canoe
yawl from it. Canoe yawls were as short as 13ft, after all.
One advantage of the Skerry is the flat bottom panel (in this it is like
the Steve Redmond Elver).
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
FWIW, here are pictures of a scale
model I made of Bolger's Plywood
Canoe Yawl. 1/2" equals a foot.
Hull only, no cabin, fin, etc.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/pcy/
See picture pcy9 for a comparison
of size to Superbrick and Champlain.
I see the 19'4" hull as about twice as
complex as building a Glouchester
Light Dory 15'6", plus that much work
again for the rudder and yards.
I found the expanded shape of the
panels to be clean, simple and
nearly symetrical, Bolger is a
genius.
model I made of Bolger's Plywood
Canoe Yawl. 1/2" equals a foot.
Hull only, no cabin, fin, etc.
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/pcy/
See picture pcy9 for a comparison
of size to Superbrick and Champlain.
I see the 19'4" hull as about twice as
complex as building a Glouchester
Light Dory 15'6", plus that much work
again for the rudder and yards.
I found the expanded shape of the
panels to be clean, simple and
nearly symetrical, Bolger is a
genius.