Re: Which SITE to buy from ?
--- "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
PB&F explain that LaRowe had the right
to sell his plans with a royalty
payment remitted to PCB *and* with
the condition that LaRowe build a
proto-type of each design.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/1250
Partially quoted here:
- The late Elrow LaRowe commissioned a few designs to which he would
have the right to sell copies, but no exclusive rights. Part of the
agreement was for him to build a prototype to each design. That
responsibility was only partially met. Royalty payments were straight
though, as far as we remember.
- CSD (CSB?!) are the de facto successors to LaRowe with the right on
a very few designs to sell - NON-EXCLUSIVELY -, assuming the already
minimal royalty payments are met, which has NOT been the case for
while.
>Read message 1250 on this group.
> My understanding is that the first couple of owners of Common Sense
> commissioned about 8 designs, and have the rights to sell them
> without further royalty. I suppose this is the asset that keep the
> name and business from completely disappearing despite its being a
> failing business since Small Boat Journal went out of business.
PB&F explain that LaRowe had the right
to sell his plans with a royalty
payment remitted to PCB *and* with
the condition that LaRowe build a
proto-type of each design.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/1250
Partially quoted here:
- The late Elrow LaRowe commissioned a few designs to which he would
have the right to sell copies, but no exclusive rights. Part of the
agreement was for him to build a prototype to each design. That
responsibility was only partially met. Royalty payments were straight
though, as far as we remember.
- CSD (CSB?!) are the de facto successors to LaRowe with the right on
a very few designs to sell - NON-EXCLUSIVELY -, assuming the already
minimal royalty payments are met, which has NOT been the case for
while.
My understanding is that the first couple of owners of Common Sense
commissioned about 8 designs, and have the rights to sell them
without further royalty. I suppose this is the asset that keep the
name and business from completely disappearing despite its being a
failing business since Small Boat Journal went out of business.
Wolford sold many additional plans on a royalty basis. After the
blowup with Wolford, PB&F discontinued the selling of plans under
royalty, except for thru Payson, but CSB still has the right to the
core group.
There have been all sort of complaints about CSB from customers under
every owner, excepting only the founder. There have also been
satisfied customers. Caveat Emptor!
If you are dissatisfied with the way Mr. Bolger does business, go to
a different designer. There are plenty.
Peter
commissioned about 8 designs, and have the rights to sell them
without further royalty. I suppose this is the asset that keep the
name and business from completely disappearing despite its being a
failing business since Small Boat Journal went out of business.
Wolford sold many additional plans on a royalty basis. After the
blowup with Wolford, PB&F discontinued the selling of plans under
royalty, except for thru Payson, but CSB still has the right to the
core group.
There have been all sort of complaints about CSB from customers under
every owner, excepting only the founder. There have also been
satisfied customers. Caveat Emptor!
If you are dissatisfied with the way Mr. Bolger does business, go to
a different designer. There are plenty.
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Magen" <quohog@a...> wrote:
Canadian brewskis!!!
Peter Lenihan
> LIVE WITH IT !! How many of those 'all important, must have today'plans
> are acted upon the day they are received?Hear!Hear! Your're welcome at my bar any time Ron for some fine
Canadian brewskis!!!
Peter Lenihan
I've been 'eavesdropping on this, sadly sometimes acrimonious, drivel
for the last week, or so. The 'thread / theme' has surfaced several
times in the past.
I have a feeling that a number {most ?} of the 'correspondents' don't
realize that Mr. Bolger once *belonged* to this group !! He had a web
address - PERSONAL, not an independent 'site' - and participated in a
discussion, or two. It was probably in one of those that he made the
comment to just let the whole issue drop; there are more important
things in life.
What I BELIEVE happened is exactly what happened on another
'boatbuilding' group. A well-known individual, with MANY years of ACTUAL
experience, who was/is running a SUCCESSFUL epoxy 'formulating' & supply
company, was contributing his knowledge and expertise in many
discussions. After a lot of acrimonious, incorrect, and plain, unadorned
B- - -S- -T responses, he simply *disappeared*. Personally, I miss both
what he had to say, and the way he said it. That, and the continued
harping on the same non-issues is probably why Mr. Bolger no longer
'attends'. In addition, from what I understand, while Mr. Bolger is sort
of an easy-going iconoclast, Ms. Alltenberger is more the hard-headed
business type - and the 'gatekeeper' !! {THAT is what my wife is . . .
for HER boss !!}
On last thought. With all these complaints & tears . . . the 'internet'
is relative new . . . web 'sites' are newer still . . . and the concept
of an on-line catalog, that one can ORDER from is literally in it's
infancy !! Yet people seem to have TOTALLY forgotten that only a few
years ago the written letter {'snail mail' being TODAY's derisive term}
was THE way to handle business, and then, an even shorter time ago, FAX
{how many people don't know that is short for 'facsimile'} became the
'next big thing'.
LIVE WITH IT !! How many of those 'all important, must have today' plans
are acted upon the day they are received? How many are actually 'wish
books' ? Not counting books by Gardner, Payson, etc. I must have about
20 sets; rolled up on a shelf, in folders, hanging on the wall, and
flattened between our mattress & box spring !
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
PS: I'm probably going to get a couple more from the Mystic Seaport
Plans Department after the first of the year
for the last week, or so. The 'thread / theme' has surfaced several
times in the past.
I have a feeling that a number {most ?} of the 'correspondents' don't
realize that Mr. Bolger once *belonged* to this group !! He had a web
address - PERSONAL, not an independent 'site' - and participated in a
discussion, or two. It was probably in one of those that he made the
comment to just let the whole issue drop; there are more important
things in life.
What I BELIEVE happened is exactly what happened on another
'boatbuilding' group. A well-known individual, with MANY years of ACTUAL
experience, who was/is running a SUCCESSFUL epoxy 'formulating' & supply
company, was contributing his knowledge and expertise in many
discussions. After a lot of acrimonious, incorrect, and plain, unadorned
B- - -S- -T responses, he simply *disappeared*. Personally, I miss both
what he had to say, and the way he said it. That, and the continued
harping on the same non-issues is probably why Mr. Bolger no longer
'attends'. In addition, from what I understand, while Mr. Bolger is sort
of an easy-going iconoclast, Ms. Alltenberger is more the hard-headed
business type - and the 'gatekeeper' !! {THAT is what my wife is . . .
for HER boss !!}
On last thought. With all these complaints & tears . . . the 'internet'
is relative new . . . web 'sites' are newer still . . . and the concept
of an on-line catalog, that one can ORDER from is literally in it's
infancy !! Yet people seem to have TOTALLY forgotten that only a few
years ago the written letter {'snail mail' being TODAY's derisive term}
was THE way to handle business, and then, an even shorter time ago, FAX
{how many people don't know that is short for 'facsimile'} became the
'next big thing'.
LIVE WITH IT !! How many of those 'all important, must have today' plans
are acted upon the day they are received? How many are actually 'wish
books' ? Not counting books by Gardner, Payson, etc. I must have about
20 sets; rolled up on a shelf, in folders, hanging on the wall, and
flattened between our mattress & box spring !
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
PS: I'm probably going to get a couple more from the Mystic Seaport
Plans Department after the first of the year