Re: Liveaboard Sailer For One
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dbaldnz" <oink@p...> wrote:
Great to hear from you! I hope you are able to get lots of photos.
This will be a historic occasion I hope you know.
What would really be great would be full article for Duckworks
magazine as well. So don't just spend ALL your time lazing around on
those beautful bunks. Think about us bums freezin our butts off and
reaching for any glimmer that the world may return to blue ripples
in the sun again:-)
Season's Greetings, Nels - From the crisp frozen whiteness of
Saskatchewan, where the blowing snow has turned the streets into
sheets of curling ice.
> Hi Nels, yes, I am still around.to
> Our summer holidays start next week, and I will finally have time
> finish rigging my Navigator.Hi Don,
Great to hear from you! I hope you are able to get lots of photos.
This will be a historic occasion I hope you know.
What would really be great would be full article for Duckworks
magazine as well. So don't just spend ALL your time lazing around on
those beautful bunks. Think about us bums freezin our butts off and
reaching for any glimmer that the world may return to blue ripples
in the sun again:-)
Season's Greetings, Nels - From the crisp frozen whiteness of
Saskatchewan, where the blowing snow has turned the streets into
sheets of curling ice.
Hi Nels, yes, I am still around.
Our summer holidays start next week, and I will finally have time to
finish rigging my Navigator. The little spare time I have has been at
night, and Oink is outside, so I have used it to finish off my dinghy
in the garage.
Then I have to hunt out my mooring man who has stored my mooring in a
secret place somewhere, prior to finding a less exposed siting.
regards,
DonB
Our summer holidays start next week, and I will finally have time to
finish rigging my Navigator. The little spare time I have has been at
night, and Oink is outside, so I have used it to finish off my dinghy
in the garage.
Then I have to hunt out my mooring man who has stored my mooring in a
secret place somewhere, prior to finding a less exposed siting.
regards,
DonB
>
> I have heard this same statement from others. (Don Baldwinson I
> believe - I wonder did he ever get his on the water??)
> Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
I can see why you would need the floor boards alright. Or the feet
would be dangling:-)
The hatch looks really good and the photos illustrate a sense of the
space that can be opened up and how bright and airy it is inside.
Lots of work but it will really show well. And there are several
details that I can see are going to add up to making the interior
quite versatile!
I also admired the curved laminated gaff. That is going to look super
with all the other curves you have incorparated.
Where you able to obtain thickness and taper dimensions for the
battens, or is this still a "work in progress" as PCB&F have been
saying?
Nice scenery around your place too. What are all those green things?
And the green stuff on the ground?
Cheers, Nels
> The floorboards are needed, otherwise whenThanks Bruce for the update. I guess I missed those photos previously.
> you sit in the berths, your feet would be
> dangling. You wouldn't want to lower the
> berths, or you couldn't look out the windows.
>
> > some photos of the hatch?
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/micro/450/
I can see why you would need the floor boards alright. Or the feet
would be dangling:-)
The hatch looks really good and the photos illustrate a sense of the
space that can be opened up and how bright and airy it is inside.
Lots of work but it will really show well. And there are several
details that I can see are going to add up to making the interior
quite versatile!
I also admired the curved laminated gaff. That is going to look super
with all the other curves you have incorparated.
Where you able to obtain thickness and taper dimensions for the
battens, or is this still a "work in progress" as PCB&F have been
saying?
Nice scenery around your place too. What are all those green things?
And the green stuff on the ground?
Cheers, Nels
---arvent@...wrote:
perhaps three inches higher than the plans.
Two inches because I cambered the roof beam,
and another inch because my hatch rail is
taller than drawn on the plan.
The near-standing headroom is a small
floor space, without floorboards, next
to the microwave in the photo. A piece
of removable floor in the photo is not
yet installed next to this space. I am
routing my battery cables under this
removable floor. I bought two big
6V Trojan#105 boat batteries yesterday,
and built mounting brackets for them
last night!
I also sloped my roof a couple degrees more
[fore:aft] than the plans, but this doesn't
affect headroom.
The floorboards are needed, otherwise when
you sit in the berths, your feet would be
dangling. You wouldn't want to lower the
berths, or you couldn't look out the windows.
> Somehow the cartoon must be misleading,Due to builder option/error, my roof is
> but it shows the floorboards
> raised fairly high. (I don't see any need for
> floorboards anyway.)
perhaps three inches higher than the plans.
Two inches because I cambered the roof beam,
and another inch because my hatch rail is
taller than drawn on the plan.
The near-standing headroom is a small
floor space, without floorboards, next
to the microwave in the photo. A piece
of removable floor in the photo is not
yet installed next to this space. I am
routing my battery cables under this
removable floor. I bought two big
6V Trojan#105 boat batteries yesterday,
and built mounting brackets for them
last night!
I also sloped my roof a couple degrees more
[fore:aft] than the plans, but this doesn't
affect headroom.
The floorboards are needed, otherwise when
you sit in the berths, your feet would be
dangling. You wouldn't want to lower the
berths, or you couldn't look out the windows.
> some photos of the hatch?http://hallman.org/bolger/micro/450/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
bedroom slippers:-)
Somehow the cartoon must be misleading, but it shows the floorboards
raised fairly high. (I don't see any need for floorboards anyway.)
believe - I wonder did he ever get his on the water??)
hatch? Or have you posted them already? Does it slide out beyond the
front opening window now? (I will check.)
Cheers, Nels
> On my Micro Navigator, this dimensionWow - this is a nice surprise! Especially since I am 5' 9" (In my
> is abount 5'9".
bedroom slippers:-)
Somehow the cartoon must be misleading, but it shows the floorboards
raised fairly high. (I don't see any need for floorboards anyway.)
> Seated, with all-around lexan and aI have heard this same statement from others. (Don Baldwinson I
> very high ceiling, the cabin feels big
> and much less claustrophobic than every
> other sailboat cabin I have been in!
believe - I wonder did he ever get his on the water??)
>Sounds like a great idea - any chance of getting some photos of the
> I lengthened my sliding hatch by about
> a foot so it amounts to a Birdwatcher
> slot-top for the middle area of the
> cabin during nice weather.
hatch? Or have you posted them already? Does it slide out beyond the
front opening window now? (I will check.)
Cheers, Nels
--- Nels wrote:
is abount 5'9". I am six feet tall,
and the height is enough to stand
comfortably with straight legs, straight
back and head tipped sideways. Plenty
of room to stand and pull up one's
trowsers [which is about the only reason
to need to stand up in a boat like this].
Of course, another way to stretch out is
to lie down in the full length berth.
Seated, with all-around lexan and a
very high ceiling, the cabin feels big
and much less claustrophobic than every
other sailboat cabin I have been in!
Besides, standing height is only an
issue in rain or bitter cold when the
hatch must be closed. [about ten days
a year, where I live <grin>.]
I lengthened my sliding hatch by about
a foot so it amounts to a Birdwatcher
slot-top for the middle area of the
cabin during nice weather.
> According to my calculations,On my Micro Navigator, this dimension
> the height as drawn - from the
> lowest spot in the hull to the
> inside of the hatch when closed is
> 4'8".
is abount 5'9". I am six feet tall,
and the height is enough to stand
comfortably with straight legs, straight
back and head tipped sideways. Plenty
of room to stand and pull up one's
trowsers [which is about the only reason
to need to stand up in a boat like this].
Of course, another way to stretch out is
to lie down in the full length berth.
Seated, with all-around lexan and a
very high ceiling, the cabin feels big
and much less claustrophobic than every
other sailboat cabin I have been in!
Besides, standing height is only an
issue in rain or bitter cold when the
hatch must be closed. [about ten days
a year, where I live <grin>.]
I lengthened my sliding hatch by about
a foot so it amounts to a Birdwatcher
slot-top for the middle area of the
cabin during nice weather.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, paul_romayne@y... wrote:
I agree being short is an asset in this case:-)
I haven't worked out all the details to scale yet but I do have some
rough estimates. The extra four feet of length added to long micro
has been added amidships which gives some added "depth" to the hull
as well. According to my calculations, the height as drawn - from the
lowest spot in the hull to the inside of the hatch when closed is
4'8". As well when I sketched in a pilothouse it made the stern look
too "small" so adding a 6" or so coaming running through the cockpit
(Like Chebacco) put it more into balance and if this is carried
forward to the raised deck it even give a bit more height to 5' 2".
So it does not take much of a raised dog house to give some standing
headroom, albeit a very small area. Also the house will be crowned
for added strength.
I have had some experience in a VW Westfalia. When the lid is down it
is very cramped. When raised it is STILL cramped, but being able to
stand up straight even in one small spot is sure alot easier on the
back.
I found
rocker, the house will not present much of a problem, especially the
house/hard dodger as shown. The actual closed in part is only about 4
feet long and five wide which is less than on the Micro Navigator.
And smaller in area than most on-deck dingys.
Also if one uses the Nav rig, it has a shorter mast, so it seems to
me it will present less windage than the cabin versions of Chebacco,
Seabird, Martha Jane or even Jesse Cooper, let alone a Jochems
Schooner, which according to Bjorn Harbo is very easy to manouver.
with a cabin is my biggest weakness. Could be done in strip planking.
I can't understand why this boat is not more popular!
Also wondering how Bill Mckibben's raised deck cabin version is
progressing? Jamie Orr are you there?
Also Seabird. Although these boats are very beautiful, I notice that
the multi chime does not have as much interior volume nor initial
stability at anchor as the boxes. PCB says this: "She was tiddly at
anchor on account of the narrow waterline." Page 252 BWAOM.
It is also quite a bit more complicated to build and more of a
handful to trailer.
All of these boats are tack and tape as well, which I have no
experience with. I have some Cartopper plans I want to try it out
with.
I really appreciate everyone's input!
Season's Greetings, Nels
> Nels:I
>
> I really like your idea of adding a pilot house to the Long Micro.
> am not yet a member of Bolger3 so I haven't seen the illustrationHi Paul,
> that you uploaded, but I can quite easily envision the concept. I
> would be somewhat skeptical of trying to achieve standing headroom
> with this hull (unless you are quite short) - my approach was to
> design it with ample sitting headroom and let it go at that.
I agree being short is an asset in this case:-)
I haven't worked out all the details to scale yet but I do have some
rough estimates. The extra four feet of length added to long micro
has been added amidships which gives some added "depth" to the hull
as well. According to my calculations, the height as drawn - from the
lowest spot in the hull to the inside of the hatch when closed is
4'8". As well when I sketched in a pilothouse it made the stern look
too "small" so adding a 6" or so coaming running through the cockpit
(Like Chebacco) put it more into balance and if this is carried
forward to the raised deck it even give a bit more height to 5' 2".
So it does not take much of a raised dog house to give some standing
headroom, albeit a very small area. Also the house will be crowned
for added strength.
I have had some experience in a VW Westfalia. When the lid is down it
is very cramped. When raised it is STILL cramped, but being able to
stand up straight even in one small spot is sure alot easier on the
back.
I found
> that increased windage is more of a problem when trying to maneuverMy feeling is that with a 9.9 high thrust on a hull with this much
> under power in tight quarters with a lot of wind than merely
> hindering the boat in open water.
rocker, the house will not present much of a problem, especially the
house/hard dodger as shown. The actual closed in part is only about 4
feet long and five wide which is less than on the Micro Navigator.
And smaller in area than most on-deck dingys.
Also if one uses the Nav rig, it has a shorter mast, so it seems to
me it will present less windage than the cabin versions of Chebacco,
Seabird, Martha Jane or even Jesse Cooper, let alone a Jochems
Schooner, which according to Bjorn Harbo is very easy to manouver.
> Some other Bolger designs that already exist that are comparable inhouse
> size, building difficulty, are trailerable and include a pilot
> version are:Yes, I have looked very closely at these designs. The Chebacco 25
>
> Seabird 86
>
>http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/Seabirdindex.html
>
> and Chebacco
>
>http://www.chebacco.com
>
with a cabin is my biggest weakness. Could be done in strip planking.
I can't understand why this boat is not more popular!
Also wondering how Bill Mckibben's raised deck cabin version is
progressing? Jamie Orr are you there?
Also Seabird. Although these boats are very beautiful, I notice that
the multi chime does not have as much interior volume nor initial
stability at anchor as the boxes. PCB says this: "She was tiddly at
anchor on account of the narrow waterline." Page 252 BWAOM.
It is also quite a bit more complicated to build and more of a
handful to trailer.
All of these boats are tack and tape as well, which I have no
experience with. I have some Cartopper plans I want to try it out
with.
I really appreciate everyone's input!
Season's Greetings, Nels
Nels:
I really like your idea of adding a pilot house to the Long Micro. I
am not yet a member of Bolger3 so I haven't seen the illustration
that you uploaded, but I can quite easily envision the concept. I
would be somewhat skeptical of trying to achieve standing headroom
with this hull (unless you are quite short) - my approach was to
design it with ample sitting headroom and let it go at that. I found
that increased windage is more of a problem when trying to maneuver
under power in tight quarters with a lot of wind than merely
hindering the boat in open water. That having been said, a practical
20 foot sailboat with standing headroom is definitely possible -
Flicka being what immediately comes to mind. However, this is a heavy
deep-draft design that you would surely not want to trailer around.
Some other Bolger designs that already exist that are comparable in
size, building difficulty, are trailerable and include a pilot house
version are:
Seabird 86
http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/Seabirdindex.html
and Chebacco
http://www.chebacco.com
Both of these designs are also in "Boats With An Open Mind"
Romayne
I really like your idea of adding a pilot house to the Long Micro. I
am not yet a member of Bolger3 so I haven't seen the illustration
that you uploaded, but I can quite easily envision the concept. I
would be somewhat skeptical of trying to achieve standing headroom
with this hull (unless you are quite short) - my approach was to
design it with ample sitting headroom and let it go at that. I found
that increased windage is more of a problem when trying to maneuver
under power in tight quarters with a lot of wind than merely
hindering the boat in open water. That having been said, a practical
20 foot sailboat with standing headroom is definitely possible -
Flicka being what immediately comes to mind. However, this is a heavy
deep-draft design that you would surely not want to trailer around.
Some other Bolger designs that already exist that are comparable in
size, building difficulty, are trailerable and include a pilot house
version are:
Seabird 86
http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/Seabirdindex.html
and Chebacco
http://www.chebacco.com
Both of these designs are also in "Boats With An Open Mind"
Romayne
Hey all you sailors,
Is there a site online where I can see pictures of all these boats?
Please inform me of the url if there is one.
season's greetings, bobbinfrboblynn@...just outside Chicago
Is there a site online where I can see pictures of all these boats?
Please inform me of the url if there is one.
season's greetings, bobbinfrboblynn@...just outside Chicago
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, bruce_hector@h... wrote:
some lawn furniture, barbi, a hammock and and a cooler. (In addition
to my leather recliner and slippers:-)
This IS a "guy" liveaboard you know.
Nels
> Consider PB's method.Or the other option. Forego the accomodations altogether and bring in
>
> Draw the desired accomodations as tight as you dare. THEN make the
> hull fit around them!
>
some lawn furniture, barbi, a hammock and and a cooler. (In addition
to my leather recliner and slippers:-)
This IS a "guy" liveaboard you know.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David Romasco" <dromasco@g...> wrote:
I realized the design is perfect as it is.
Now if a guy put one of then thar box keels under her.... naw never
mind.
The mind just WANTS to go there - evisioning a Superbrick chugging
out of the marina at about three knots max and suddenly opening the
throttle to bring he up on her "Hawkeye bottom" and takes off at 25
or so knots. It has room for a 50 under that motor shroud.
Anyway it begs to have than cutwater added... Nels
> Hmmm......Navigator mod
>
> Say, Nels.... Why not a SuperBrick? You could even apply the
> (as if the SuperBrick could draw more astonished looks)!! Did Imention
> there are certain financial advantages to building a SB?Yes of course I DID consider a Navigator version of SuperBrick, until
>
> David Romasco, laughing evilly on the Isle of Kent
>
I realized the design is perfect as it is.
Now if a guy put one of then thar box keels under her.... naw never
mind.
The mind just WANTS to go there - evisioning a Superbrick chugging
out of the marina at about three knots max and suddenly opening the
throttle to bring he up on her "Hawkeye bottom" and takes off at 25
or so knots. It has room for a 50 under that motor shroud.
Anyway it begs to have than cutwater added... Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, lestat@b... wrote:
Okay, now I feel better. For awhile there I thought you figured it
was a dumb idea;-)
When I first decided to purchase Lestat, it was so I could get out on
the water and build my "real" (meaning bigger) boat at the same time.
My dreams were filled with the vision of Fiji and I pictured Lestat
as a daysailer to have some fun with in the meantime.
I recall Bernie Wolfard claiming in his catalogues that Micro was all
the boat that 80% of the population needed and Long Micro was enough
for the other 20%. Of course I saw this as mostly hype, but now that
I have the experience of studying the design in 3D in every facet I
can see he had something there. And this was way before Navigator
came along.
Navigator changes the design drastically because first of all it
gives inside seating at normal chair height and inside steering and
sail handling in about as reasonable and compact a package as one
could imagine.
After towing Lestat for some 3000 km behind my diesel van I found it
to be very friendly, as easy as towing my 17 foot camper trailer. If
I had a Fiji I would be tied to a marina where she would be and tied
to the sizable investment. This way I can take my boat with me if I
want to, with no more trouble than taking the trailer. Course the
trailer has to go!
Of course I would never touch Lestat with a saw or hammer, and do a
Navigator conversion - no more than I would fiberglass my wood and
canvas canoe. But on the other hand the sit up and sprawl seats and
Blondie Hasler sailing style is way appealing to me. The thing is -
if I build a Navigator from scratch - why not go for an extra 4 feet
of length? It will likely be appreciably faster, able to handle a
larger motor and more sail and will give that lovely combination of
standup headroom and a hard dodger - which definetely will not fit in
a standard Navigator.
As for the under 20 foot size - I have spent many years living in a
two person tent on canoe trips and when we moved up to something to
get us off the ground when traveling we first got a Boler that has a
9 X 6 cabin. Eventually we "moved up" to the 17 foot trailer and then
the 30 foot motorhome. With a camper van in between there someplace.
The ones we used the most - by far - were the camper van and the
Boler. The motorhome sits idle because it is just too much hassle to
get around in and when you get there you still need a second vehicle
to get around town in. (This second vehicle is referred to as
a "Dingy" by the motorhome crowd.)
I agree wholehartedly that one must be in love with the one they
pick to bring to the dance and I am still looking for potential dance
partners out there. But each time I consider the Micro in it's
totality I am like Chuck Merrell in feeling it has to be a
masterpiece of design, in form following function.
Cheers, Nels
> Nels,Peter,
> I guess folks are just well intentioned and would like to see
> you succeed.Another way of looking at it is,we are all just testing
> your resolve:-)
>
Okay, now I feel better. For awhile there I thought you figured it
was a dumb idea;-)
When I first decided to purchase Lestat, it was so I could get out on
the water and build my "real" (meaning bigger) boat at the same time.
My dreams were filled with the vision of Fiji and I pictured Lestat
as a daysailer to have some fun with in the meantime.
I recall Bernie Wolfard claiming in his catalogues that Micro was all
the boat that 80% of the population needed and Long Micro was enough
for the other 20%. Of course I saw this as mostly hype, but now that
I have the experience of studying the design in 3D in every facet I
can see he had something there. And this was way before Navigator
came along.
Navigator changes the design drastically because first of all it
gives inside seating at normal chair height and inside steering and
sail handling in about as reasonable and compact a package as one
could imagine.
After towing Lestat for some 3000 km behind my diesel van I found it
to be very friendly, as easy as towing my 17 foot camper trailer. If
I had a Fiji I would be tied to a marina where she would be and tied
to the sizable investment. This way I can take my boat with me if I
want to, with no more trouble than taking the trailer. Course the
trailer has to go!
Of course I would never touch Lestat with a saw or hammer, and do a
Navigator conversion - no more than I would fiberglass my wood and
canvas canoe. But on the other hand the sit up and sprawl seats and
Blondie Hasler sailing style is way appealing to me. The thing is -
if I build a Navigator from scratch - why not go for an extra 4 feet
of length? It will likely be appreciably faster, able to handle a
larger motor and more sail and will give that lovely combination of
standup headroom and a hard dodger - which definetely will not fit in
a standard Navigator.
As for the under 20 foot size - I have spent many years living in a
two person tent on canoe trips and when we moved up to something to
get us off the ground when traveling we first got a Boler that has a
9 X 6 cabin. Eventually we "moved up" to the 17 foot trailer and then
the 30 foot motorhome. With a camper van in between there someplace.
The ones we used the most - by far - were the camper van and the
Boler. The motorhome sits idle because it is just too much hassle to
get around in and when you get there you still need a second vehicle
to get around town in. (This second vehicle is referred to as
a "Dingy" by the motorhome crowd.)
I agree wholehartedly that one must be in love with the one they
pick to bring to the dance and I am still looking for potential dance
partners out there. But each time I consider the Micro in it's
totality I am like Chuck Merrell in feeling it has to be a
masterpiece of design, in form following function.
Cheers, Nels
Consider PB's method.
Draw the desired accomodations as tight as you dare. THEN make the
hull fit around them!
What you end up wiyt is your problem. But we'll want to see it
anyways.
Bruce Hector
Draw the desired accomodations as tight as you dare. THEN make the
hull fit around them!
What you end up wiyt is your problem. But we'll want to see it
anyways.
Bruce Hector
Hmmm......
Say, Nels.... Why not a SuperBrick? You could even apply the Navigator mod
(as if the SuperBrick could draw more astonished looks)!! Did I mention
there are certain financial advantages to building a SB?
David Romasco, laughing evilly on the Isle of Kent
_____
From:lestat@...[mailto:lestat@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:27 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Liveaboard Sailer For One
Say, Nels.... Why not a SuperBrick? You could even apply the Navigator mod
(as if the SuperBrick could draw more astonished looks)!! Did I mention
there are certain financial advantages to building a SB?
David Romasco, laughing evilly on the Isle of Kent
_____
From:lestat@...[mailto:lestat@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:27 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Liveaboard Sailer For One
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, arvent@h... wrote:
> I notice each time I bring up the subject of modifying a LM
somebody
> recommends another design instead. My problem is that when I first
> encountered Lestat, it changed my whole way of looking at a MICRO!
It
> has a lot more interior space than I ever imagined. The along came
> the Nav mod and people were even more amazed. So I would really
love
> to see a Long Micro and the impression it makes.
>
> In addition to that it seems an LM Navigator would be about the
most
> boat one could hope for for the amount invested both in time and
> money.
>
> Cheers, Nels
Nels,
I guess folks are just well intentioned and would like to see
you succeed.Another way of looking at it is,we are all just testing
your resolve:-)
I'm sorry Lestat has worked her evil ways on you( I told her to
be nice with the new owner!) but there is little I can do now but
pray for your sanity,especially as you appear to have a bit more left
then I do :-D
The one thing I have noticed is that boats,particularly
sailboats,in or around 20'loa are tough on owners.They are sorta half
way between full and plain daysailors and live aboard cruisers.On the
one hand they appeal because of their compactness and affordability
while on the other the dissappoint because they all seem to be just a
foot short of full standing headroom,or a few inches short of a
shower or double berth etc....Attempting to get 30 foot accomadations
into 20 footer reality is virtually impossible unless we throw out
all good sense/taste/money and laugh all the way back to the funny
farm.
Mind you, if anyone can do it,it would be probably be PCB
Himself,but it won't come cheap!
In the end,you really have to be completely smitten with the
boat you want to build, for its creation will test and explore
aspects of yourself you didn't know you had and in ways you never
imagined.
Fall in love first,worry about the details later:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, arvent@h... wrote:
I guess folks are just well intentioned and would like to see
you succeed.Another way of looking at it is,we are all just testing
your resolve:-)
I'm sorry Lestat has worked her evil ways on you( I told her to
be nice with the new owner!) but there is little I can do now but
pray for your sanity,especially as you appear to have a bit more left
then I do :-D
The one thing I have noticed is that boats,particularly
sailboats,in or around 20'loa are tough on owners.They are sorta half
way between full and plain daysailors and live aboard cruisers.On the
one hand they appeal because of their compactness and affordability
while on the other the dissappoint because they all seem to be just a
foot short of full standing headroom,or a few inches short of a
shower or double berth etc....Attempting to get 30 foot accomadations
into 20 footer reality is virtually impossible unless we throw out
all good sense/taste/money and laugh all the way back to the funny
farm.
Mind you, if anyone can do it,it would be probably be PCB
Himself,but it won't come cheap!
In the end,you really have to be completely smitten with the
boat you want to build, for its creation will test and explore
aspects of yourself you didn't know you had and in ways you never
imagined.
Fall in love first,worry about the details later:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
> I notice each time I bring up the subject of modifying a LMsomebody
> recommends another design instead. My problem is that when I firstIt
> encountered Lestat, it changed my whole way of looking at a MICRO!
> has a lot more interior space than I ever imagined. The along camelove
> the Nav mod and people were even more amazed. So I would really
> to see a Long Micro and the impression it makes.most
>
> In addition to that it seems an LM Navigator would be about the
> boat one could hope for for the amount invested both in time andNels,
> money.
>
> Cheers, Nels
I guess folks are just well intentioned and would like to see
you succeed.Another way of looking at it is,we are all just testing
your resolve:-)
I'm sorry Lestat has worked her evil ways on you( I told her to
be nice with the new owner!) but there is little I can do now but
pray for your sanity,especially as you appear to have a bit more left
then I do :-D
The one thing I have noticed is that boats,particularly
sailboats,in or around 20'loa are tough on owners.They are sorta half
way between full and plain daysailors and live aboard cruisers.On the
one hand they appeal because of their compactness and affordability
while on the other the dissappoint because they all seem to be just a
foot short of full standing headroom,or a few inches short of a
shower or double berth etc....Attempting to get 30 foot accomadations
into 20 footer reality is virtually impossible unless we throw out
all good sense/taste/money and laugh all the way back to the funny
farm.
Mind you, if anyone can do it,it would be probably be PCB
Himself,but it won't come cheap!
In the end,you really have to be completely smitten with the
boat you want to build, for its creation will test and explore
aspects of yourself you didn't know you had and in ways you never
imagined.
Fall in love first,worry about the details later:-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, lestat@b... wrote:
Yes I agree that it is one beautiful shape compared to the boxes and
I also agree that it would be doable in strip planking and cold-
molding although this is probably the most time consuming of any
building method. (The interior would also be lovely in the cedar
stripping!)
It does suffer from two other disadvantages that it shares with JC
and that is the beam at 7' 6" and the lack of space to install a
motor conveniently. I know LM is narrow and not as deep but some of
this could be overcome by how the house is installed. I intend to
carry a raised coaming back to the stern section, which in essence
carries the raised forward deck all the way to the stern well.
I would also make the interior passagway somewhat narrower and
decrease the depth of the counters to allow the single bunk to be
converted to a reasonable double if two people wanted to share it.
My original thinkiing was to have a full-time double berth but found
it to be very awkward as it blocked off access to the forward hatch
and head.
I had a camper trailer where the single bed/sofa converted to a
double by sliding out a section under it that had two legs attached,
then using the back cushion as a filler. It would take up all the
space in the companionway but would still give access to the sink,
closet, cooler and head, which is all you need. This bed can be
converted in two minutes if one is really in a hurry. The secret is
to have a ready made sleeping system stored under, along with the
various tie downs;-) If you are really engenious you can obtain an
electic bed that converts from a sofa to bed at the push of a button.
These are available in some van campers made in Manitoba.
Also in the cartoon, the house is shown farther aft than it actually
would be. Further forward, it would cover the original hatch space in
the LM and still give a full 6 feet of space in the cckpit. (Well
almost.) It might be possible to then throw down an air mattress and
stretch out under the stars when in tropical climes.
I notice each time I bring up the subject of modifying a LM somebody
recommends another design instead. My problem is that when I first
encountered Lestat, it changed my whole way of looking at a MICRO! It
has a lot more interior space than I ever imagined. The along came
the Nav mod and people were even more amazed. So I would really love
to see a Long Micro and the impression it makes.
In addition to that it seems an LM Navigator would be about the most
boat one could hope for for the amount invested both in time and
money.
Cheers, Nels
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, arvent@h... wrote:strip
> Hi Nels,
> That's one boat that always caught my roving eye! I really
> really like it alot but for that darned single bed.......
> A boat shaped like this would be relatively easy to do in
> planking followed by a double layer of cold molding covered byHi Peter,
> glass.
Yes I agree that it is one beautiful shape compared to the boxes and
I also agree that it would be doable in strip planking and cold-
molding although this is probably the most time consuming of any
building method. (The interior would also be lovely in the cedar
stripping!)
It does suffer from two other disadvantages that it shares with JC
and that is the beam at 7' 6" and the lack of space to install a
motor conveniently. I know LM is narrow and not as deep but some of
this could be overcome by how the house is installed. I intend to
carry a raised coaming back to the stern section, which in essence
carries the raised forward deck all the way to the stern well.
I would also make the interior passagway somewhat narrower and
decrease the depth of the counters to allow the single bunk to be
converted to a reasonable double if two people wanted to share it.
My original thinkiing was to have a full-time double berth but found
it to be very awkward as it blocked off access to the forward hatch
and head.
I had a camper trailer where the single bed/sofa converted to a
double by sliding out a section under it that had two legs attached,
then using the back cushion as a filler. It would take up all the
space in the companionway but would still give access to the sink,
closet, cooler and head, which is all you need. This bed can be
converted in two minutes if one is really in a hurry. The secret is
to have a ready made sleeping system stored under, along with the
various tie downs;-) If you are really engenious you can obtain an
electic bed that converts from a sofa to bed at the push of a button.
These are available in some van campers made in Manitoba.
Also in the cartoon, the house is shown farther aft than it actually
would be. Further forward, it would cover the original hatch space in
the LM and still give a full 6 feet of space in the cckpit. (Well
almost.) It might be possible to then throw down an air mattress and
stretch out under the stars when in tropical climes.
I notice each time I bring up the subject of modifying a LM somebody
recommends another design instead. My problem is that when I first
encountered Lestat, it changed my whole way of looking at a MICRO! It
has a lot more interior space than I ever imagined. The along came
the Nav mod and people were even more amazed. So I would really love
to see a Long Micro and the impression it makes.
In addition to that it seems an LM Navigator would be about the most
boat one could hope for for the amount invested both in time and
money.
Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, arvent@h... wrote:
That's one boat that always caught my roving eye! I really
really like it alot but for that darned single bed.......
A boat shaped like this would be relatively easy to do in strip
planking followed by a double layer of cold molding covered by
glass.This way,the boat could concievably live on a trailer forever
and be rather indestructable too.One big advantage of this type of
construction is that all the pieces are rather small and easily
handled by one guy working alone.Also, if you go with the cold molded
overlay and glass,then the inner strips can be virtually any soft
wood you choose like pine or spruce which can be readily had in 20 or
21 foot lengths at a good lumber yard.The resulting hull will
certainly be a real treat for the eyes and afford"slap free" nights
at anchor. Then again,it would not be too difficult to work out a
means of sliding that single berth out a bit,with an extension,to
accommodate a willing wench:-)......I won't be respondsible for any
slaping,yelping or invisible rope tricks if you go that route :-)
The composite imagine you show is alluring however the Long
Micro hull does not have as much freeboard as the "Liveaboard Sailor
for One" and thus will not be a roomy inside.
There are methods of constructing a more robust pilot-house then the
one shown on the plans in case you want to rough it out on the Great
Lakes :-)
The only thing I do not like about this boat is the rig. That yard
is only really safe fully hoisted and secured or else lashed down on
deck.I would hate to have to deal with the in between zone while
hoisting or dousing.However,considering the height of the
stub "mast"shown,I would be tempted to have a tabernacle fashioned in
its place,do away with that mast socket and go with a sprit main,like
on the Micro.
Just my .02cents......
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who only wishes he had 9 lives to build every boat
thats ever caught his attention,but that would mean I would have to
be a pussy and they hate water :-)
> How does it look to the rest of the Bolgerados? Does it make anyHi Nels,
> practical sense?
>
> Cheers, Nels
That's one boat that always caught my roving eye! I really
really like it alot but for that darned single bed.......
A boat shaped like this would be relatively easy to do in strip
planking followed by a double layer of cold molding covered by
glass.This way,the boat could concievably live on a trailer forever
and be rather indestructable too.One big advantage of this type of
construction is that all the pieces are rather small and easily
handled by one guy working alone.Also, if you go with the cold molded
overlay and glass,then the inner strips can be virtually any soft
wood you choose like pine or spruce which can be readily had in 20 or
21 foot lengths at a good lumber yard.The resulting hull will
certainly be a real treat for the eyes and afford"slap free" nights
at anchor. Then again,it would not be too difficult to work out a
means of sliding that single berth out a bit,with an extension,to
accommodate a willing wench:-)......I won't be respondsible for any
slaping,yelping or invisible rope tricks if you go that route :-)
The composite imagine you show is alluring however the Long
Micro hull does not have as much freeboard as the "Liveaboard Sailor
for One" and thus will not be a roomy inside.
There are methods of constructing a more robust pilot-house then the
one shown on the plans in case you want to rough it out on the Great
Lakes :-)
The only thing I do not like about this boat is the rig. That yard
is only really safe fully hoisted and secured or else lashed down on
deck.I would hate to have to deal with the in between zone while
hoisting or dousing.However,considering the height of the
stub "mast"shown,I would be tempted to have a tabernacle fashioned in
its place,do away with that mast socket and go with a sprit main,like
on the Micro.
Just my .02cents......
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, who only wishes he had 9 lives to build every boat
thats ever caught his attention,but that would mean I would have to
be a pussy and they hate water :-)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, bruce@h... wrote:
bottom.
But it's biggest set-back for me is the width which is beyond my
ability to trailer effeciently, if at all.
Bolger also has this to say in BWAOM.
"1. The deep daggerboard was good for sailing but very bad for shoal-
water use; it collected weed, was heavy to lift and jammed in an
accidental grounding.
2. The heavy mast was stepped through the deck, needing a crane to
lift it out.
3. An outboard rudder shared the transom with an outboard motor,
which looks, and is: a makeshift; the rudder is at risk of fouling
the motor and the motor is at risk of pitching out on one tack and
getting washed on the other. This last was exacerbated by the
placement of her masts and daggerboard far off center, with the
result that she had appreciably more stability on one tack than she
did on the other."
Chuck Merrell attempted to do a redesign, addressing all these short-
comings, as well as adding flooding wells at each end. He essentially
converted the design to a "Big Long Micro" with a junk rig and a dog
house! But he never completed the design.
Of course PCB turned the design into the AS29 which is just too huge
for my needs.
A agree that it might make a good full time liveaboard, but it is
simply too big for all I need. If one where sailing from the same
marina and in deep water it could be a really good choice. But even
then I still prefer the salient keelboats like the Micro series. I
prefer outside ballest that is down at the lowest area of the boat.
The folding mast and the Navigator house. LM being four feet longer
allows for a bigger house and/or still keep an outside cockpit.
Do you know where I can find out more about Merlin? Is the design
online anywhere?
Cheers, Nels
> --- Nels arvent@h... wrote:I believe JC has 1000 pounds of inside ballest plus a 480 pound
> >http://www.hallman.org/bolger/SBJ_18/
>
> I think that SBJ cartoon was later
> developed into 'Merlin'. ???
>
> When I think "Liveaboard Sailer For One"
> I think of the Jessie Cooper.
>
> Could a Jessie Cooper be 'trailered'?
> I think yes, but it is big, though
> it only has 480 lbs inside ballast
> so it would not be all that heavy.
bottom.
But it's biggest set-back for me is the width which is beyond my
ability to trailer effeciently, if at all.
Bolger also has this to say in BWAOM.
"1. The deep daggerboard was good for sailing but very bad for shoal-
water use; it collected weed, was heavy to lift and jammed in an
accidental grounding.
2. The heavy mast was stepped through the deck, needing a crane to
lift it out.
3. An outboard rudder shared the transom with an outboard motor,
which looks, and is: a makeshift; the rudder is at risk of fouling
the motor and the motor is at risk of pitching out on one tack and
getting washed on the other. This last was exacerbated by the
placement of her masts and daggerboard far off center, with the
result that she had appreciably more stability on one tack than she
did on the other."
Chuck Merrell attempted to do a redesign, addressing all these short-
comings, as well as adding flooding wells at each end. He essentially
converted the design to a "Big Long Micro" with a junk rig and a dog
house! But he never completed the design.
Of course PCB turned the design into the AS29 which is just too huge
for my needs.
A agree that it might make a good full time liveaboard, but it is
simply too big for all I need. If one where sailing from the same
marina and in deep water it could be a really good choice. But even
then I still prefer the salient keelboats like the Micro series. I
prefer outside ballest that is down at the lowest area of the boat.
The folding mast and the Navigator house. LM being four feet longer
allows for a bigger house and/or still keep an outside cockpit.
Do you know where I can find out more about Merlin? Is the design
online anywhere?
Cheers, Nels
--- Nels arvent@h... wrote:
developed into 'Merlin'. ???
When I think "Liveaboard Sailer For One"
I think of the Jessie Cooper.
Could a Jessie Cooper be 'trailered'?
I think yes, but it is big, though
it only has 480 lbs inside ballast
so it would not be all that heavy.
Also, with thick enough Lexan,
the windows on Jessie Cooper
could be safely enlarged I am
sure, giving it more of a
Navigator cabin. Seek PB&F
blessing first.
Also, a hard dodger could easily
be fitted to J.C.. The J.C. has
a balanced lug rig, which has an
excellent reputation.
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/SBJ_18/I think that SBJ cartoon was later
developed into 'Merlin'. ???
When I think "Liveaboard Sailer For One"
I think of the Jessie Cooper.
Could a Jessie Cooper be 'trailered'?
I think yes, but it is big, though
it only has 480 lbs inside ballast
so it would not be all that heavy.
Also, with thick enough Lexan,
the windows on Jessie Cooper
could be safely enlarged I am
sure, giving it more of a
Navigator cabin. Seek PB&F
blessing first.
Also, a hard dodger could easily
be fitted to J.C.. The J.C. has
a balanced lug rig, which has an
excellent reputation.
In search of the above dream boat I have been considering the
development of a Navigator version of Long Micro which I believe
would give me plenty of room for living aboard for periods of up to a
month or more and still be small enough to carry on a trailer.
I have contacted PCB&F about such a design, but they are currently
overloaded with commisions, but of course the adapatation of Long
Micro to a Navigator is not a huge stretch.(bad pun I know:-)
Then later, I found this at Bruce Hallman's website (Thanks Bruce:-)
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/SBJ_18/
This boat has the interior layout I am looking for and is about the
same length as LM. However it is built in the traditional manner and
seems far more complicated than LM.
I am particularly attracted to the combination cabin/hard dodger that
PCB apparentely added as an afterthought. Does anybody have any
experience with such a set-up? I realize that it is not ideal for
going offshore with, due to the challenge of making it strong enough
to withstand a knockdown. Also the added windage which I am not much
concerned with as I plan to use a fairly good sized motor.
To me it seems to serve as a perfect combination for making meals and
being able to see what you are doing while standing upright - and
yet have shade and shelter, while at the helm. The dodger could also
be closed in with drop cutains and/or bug netting when at anchor.
Since it seems to "fit so well" I grafted the upper works onto a Long
Micro hull and posted the result in the LONG MICRO file in Bolger 3.
It is far from a perfect "fit" - yet I seem to really like the
result, including the sail rig! (Although the mast will be in a
tabernacle. Not sure how this rig allows for raising and lowering the
huge yard!
How does it look to the rest of the Bolgerados? Does it make any
practical sense?
Cheers, Nels
development of a Navigator version of Long Micro which I believe
would give me plenty of room for living aboard for periods of up to a
month or more and still be small enough to carry on a trailer.
I have contacted PCB&F about such a design, but they are currently
overloaded with commisions, but of course the adapatation of Long
Micro to a Navigator is not a huge stretch.(bad pun I know:-)
Then later, I found this at Bruce Hallman's website (Thanks Bruce:-)
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/SBJ_18/
This boat has the interior layout I am looking for and is about the
same length as LM. However it is built in the traditional manner and
seems far more complicated than LM.
I am particularly attracted to the combination cabin/hard dodger that
PCB apparentely added as an afterthought. Does anybody have any
experience with such a set-up? I realize that it is not ideal for
going offshore with, due to the challenge of making it strong enough
to withstand a knockdown. Also the added windage which I am not much
concerned with as I plan to use a fairly good sized motor.
To me it seems to serve as a perfect combination for making meals and
being able to see what you are doing while standing upright - and
yet have shade and shelter, while at the helm. The dodger could also
be closed in with drop cutains and/or bug netting when at anchor.
Since it seems to "fit so well" I grafted the upper works onto a Long
Micro hull and posted the result in the LONG MICRO file in Bolger 3.
It is far from a perfect "fit" - yet I seem to really like the
result, including the sail rig! (Although the mast will be in a
tabernacle. Not sure how this rig allows for raising and lowering the
huge yard!
How does it look to the rest of the Bolgerados? Does it make any
practical sense?
Cheers, Nels