Re: Black Skimmer and Micro questions
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Steve Henshall <steve_henshall@y...>
wrote:
No need to crap,fret or gnash your teeth with worry......just
round up one trusty crew member,offer crash courses in how you wish
to have your favorite beverage,food or smoke served up to you and
you'll soon be gliding over the tropical oceans leading the life of a
Pasha:-)
Think about it!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,only to happy to encourage tropical fantasies of
extreme excesses while all about him is kept still by -25C arctic
temperatures,from along the deadly cold shores of the
St.Lawrence.......
wrote:
> Oh Crap!!!!Steve,
> Now I have to redo the whole control system.
>
No need to crap,fret or gnash your teeth with worry......just
round up one trusty crew member,offer crash courses in how you wish
to have your favorite beverage,food or smoke served up to you and
you'll soon be gliding over the tropical oceans leading the life of a
Pasha:-)
Think about it!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,only to happy to encourage tropical fantasies of
extreme excesses while all about him is kept still by -25C arctic
temperatures,from along the deadly cold shores of the
St.Lawrence.......
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@s...> wrote:
value of having a trusty crew! My oh my,when I think back to all the
times my very own Pesky Crew was safely tucked away"down bellow" and
prevented from getting sea-sick through my diligent and steady
requests for another cold beer,sandwich,glass of wine,mug of
Port.....it's a wonder I didn't put on more weight then I already
have:-)
Equally amazing is that I never had to deal with mutiny either!
As to sitting on the tiller/hiking stick.....well that just wouldn't
be fair to my Pesky Crew who was/is never more then a trigger hair
away from bouts of jealousy :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,ex-Micro owner/builder and glad he never put any fancy
whippings,lacings or rope work on the end of his tiller,no matter how
tempting it was,from along the arctic shores of the
St.Lawrence........
> Besides, how do you light your pipe if you can't cleat the sheetand sit on
> the tiller/hiking stick?And that,dear Roger,is precisely where one discovers the infinte
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@s...
>http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
>
value of having a trusty crew! My oh my,when I think back to all the
times my very own Pesky Crew was safely tucked away"down bellow" and
prevented from getting sea-sick through my diligent and steady
requests for another cold beer,sandwich,glass of wine,mug of
Port.....it's a wonder I didn't put on more weight then I already
have:-)
Equally amazing is that I never had to deal with mutiny either!
As to sitting on the tiller/hiking stick.....well that just wouldn't
be fair to my Pesky Crew who was/is never more then a trigger hair
away from bouts of jealousy :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,ex-Micro owner/builder and glad he never put any fancy
whippings,lacings or rope work on the end of his tiller,no matter how
tempting it was,from along the arctic shores of the
St.Lawrence........
<snip>
Besides, how do you light your pipe if you can't cleat
the sheet and
sit on
the tiller/hiking stick?
<snip>
Oh Crap!!!!
Now I have to redo the whole control system.
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 05:16:00 -0500
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Black Skimmer and Micro questions
I'm too lazy for that, but with the Sunfish, I found
that the original
hook
on the centerline, combined with clam cleats on each
side deck allow
instant
control of the sheet without building upper body
strength. As you
tack, you
lift the sheet from what was the windward cleat and
carry it to the new
windward side, tweaking as needed along the way to
accomodate roll
tacking
or whatever.
Besides, how do you light your pipe if you can't cleat
the sheet and
sit on
the tiller/hiking stick?
Besides, how do you light your pipe if you can't cleat
the sheet and
sit on
the tiller/hiking stick?
<snip>
Oh Crap!!!!
Now I have to redo the whole control system.
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 05:16:00 -0500
From: "Roger Derby" <derbyrm@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Black Skimmer and Micro questions
I'm too lazy for that, but with the Sunfish, I found
that the original
hook
on the centerline, combined with clam cleats on each
side deck allow
instant
control of the sheet without building upper body
strength. As you
tack, you
lift the sheet from what was the windward cleat and
carry it to the new
windward side, tweaking as needed along the way to
accomodate roll
tacking
or whatever.
Besides, how do you light your pipe if you can't cleat
the sheet and
sit on
the tiller/hiking stick?
I'm too lazy for that, but with the Sunfish, I found that the original hook
on the centerline, combined with clam cleats on each side deck allow instant
control of the sheet without building upper body strength. As you tack, you
lift the sheet from what was the windward cleat and carry it to the new
windward side, tweaking as needed along the way to accomodate roll tacking
or whatever.
Besides, how do you light your pipe if you can't cleat the sheet and sit on
the tiller/hiking stick?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
on the centerline, combined with clam cleats on each side deck allow instant
control of the sheet without building upper body strength. As you tack, you
lift the sheet from what was the windward cleat and carry it to the new
windward side, tweaking as needed along the way to accomodate roll tacking
or whatever.
Besides, how do you light your pipe if you can't cleat the sheet and sit on
the tiller/hiking stick?
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lenihan" <lestat@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 3:50 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer and Micro questions
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <atonkin@b...> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro and
> > what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
> > conditions.
>
> Hi John,
<snip>
> It has also been my experience that it helps to begin sailing her
> like a dinghy when the winds pipe up,ie; hands on the mainsheet
> and tiller.That is, not the more usual lazymans approach
> where she sails herself :-). Unless the winds are very steady at
> that speed in your area, do not cleat the mainsheet.
<snip>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoff.waite@t...> wrote:
in sydney please look me up and we can go for a sail. I found this
group to be very helpful in providing solutions to problems I had
with the building of Time Out. I received advice from many
including Pippo Bianco and the "guru" of micro builders Peter
Lenihan from whom I pinched the idea of buidling the boat on a
strongback. I have changed email addresses so I will update my
profile. I'm in the Sydney White pages,
Cheers,
John
"I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <atonkin@b...> wrote:I would be pleased to help in any way that I can. If/when you are
> > Geoff,
in sydney please look me up and we can go for a sail. I found this
group to be very helpful in providing solutions to problems I had
with the building of Time Out. I received advice from many
including Pippo Bianco and the "guru" of micro builders Peter
Lenihan from whom I pinched the idea of buidling the boat on a
strongback. I have changed email addresses so I will update my
profile. I'm in the Sydney White pages,
Cheers,
John
"I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased
> toseriously
> > here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders"
>
> John - not a builder or sailer of a Micro yet but looking
> at building this summer - to sail on Moreton Bay (I'm inBrisbane) -
> love to discuss micros further and draw on your experience - I
> notice the group also has a member in Clerment in Queensland as
> well - Geoff, Brisbane QLD
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@h...> wrote:
the theme of sailing by the Mozart of marine architecture
improvisation Phillip C Bolger. I plan to sail and improve my Micro
for many years yet but am looking for a Bolger design that will
expose me to another variation of fun on the water,
Cheers,
John
I miss this boat and am considering the feasability of "long
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:The Long Micro is a fine boat and represents another variation on
> > Nels,
the theme of sailing by the Mozart of marine architecture
improvisation Phillip C Bolger. I plan to sail and improve my Micro
for many years yet but am looking for a Bolger design that will
expose me to another variation of fun on the water,
Cheers,
John
I miss this boat and am considering the feasability of "long
> > micro", or the queen of the fleet AS29.It
> > Anways, if you need to go upwind to port, turn on the motor!
> > is well positioned to keep the prop in the water regardless ofheel
> > and waves.a
> >
> > David Jost
> > former Micro owner
>
> I agree that a person should take a serious look at LONG MICRO as
> viable option to BLACK SKIMMER although MARTHA JANE was the actualthe
> design that was meant to update BLACK SKIMMER.
>
> LONG MICRO as designed, does not have a lot of ballest (532 lbs of
> lead plus free-flooding keel.) So it will benefit by having added
> weight if sailed single handed. The 4 feet of length added to to
> center area means an extra 100 cubic feet or space inside, sothere
> is lots of room to carry stores and other goodies, plus being ableto
> handle a larger motor.water
>
> I like the salient keel and lead ballest down low compared to
> ballest and leeboards.comfortably.
>
> With a doghous it would be a pretty good motorsailer able to make
> some pretty hefty passages I would suggest not fast, but
> (I have some sketches of such an animal in Bolger 3)
>
> Cheers, Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
on relatively calm seas and she handles like a dream. Your
description of the relationship between the the angle of heel and
the shallow water movement especially if there is a large chop makes
sense to me. It seems then that sailing the micro in heavy weather
requires that she be kept relatively flat given that the extra wind
conditions keep her moving forward,
Cheers,
John
In "Firefly", I found that the boat was great in about 15 kts of
> David,I agree with your comments. I have sailed Time Out in 10 - 15 knots
on relatively calm seas and she handles like a dream. Your
description of the relationship between the the angle of heel and
the shallow water movement especially if there is a large chop makes
sense to me. It seems then that sailing the micro in heavy weather
requires that she be kept relatively flat given that the extra wind
conditions keep her moving forward,
Cheers,
John
In "Firefly", I found that the boat was great in about 15 kts of
> wind. As the waves increased, the boat made progressivelyonly
> significant leeway until reefed and we could sail flatter. With
> 18" of keel in the water, you are operating in surface water thatis
> moving a lot. I suspect adding more ballast would be helpful inIt
> adding stability and draft.
> I miss this boat and am considering the feasability of "long
> micro", or the queen of the fleet AS29.
> Anways, if you need to go upwind to port, turn on the motor!
> is well positioned to keep the prop in the water regardless ofheel
> and waves.
>
> David Jost
> former Micro owner
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "iambrutis" <iambrutis@y...> wrote:
his Micro in and around the Southern Ocean waters of South
Australia. I have spoken with him on many occasions and inspected
his boat and it is certainly "heavier" than mine so I take your
point. He has given me some interesting tips on reefing the Micro
from the cockpit only and I will try to scan it into the files,
Cheers,
John
I 2nd Dans sugestion more ballest. It will amaze you how much
> Tom,You may have heard of a chap by the name of Roger Keyes who sails
his Micro in and around the Southern Ocean waters of South
Australia. I have spoken with him on many occasions and inspected
his boat and it is certainly "heavier" than mine so I take your
point. He has given me some interesting tips on reefing the Micro
from the cockpit only and I will try to scan it into the files,
Cheers,
John
I 2nd Dans sugestion more ballest. It will amaze you how much
> differance that it makes. 200 lb would not be to much. secured ofcouples)
> course. I was out a few years back with 4 full size people(2
> on board 1 standing in the hatch the other 3 in the cockpit.Reefed,
> wind was over 20 and gusting to 30 mph. She sailed far better onall
> points than with me alone. Tom, Micro Anna-Lynna
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dan_gonneau" <info@z...> wrote:
> > I'm not sure if this is going to help you, but if you sail solo
> lot you might considermore "oomph"
> > adding a bit more ballast (internal) to give the boat
> into the wind. Theof
> > boat was probably designed for two sailing, so sailing solo she
> might be a bit lighter
> > than optimum for the conditions.
> >
> > On my own Long Micro, I often sail solo as well. I added 90lb
> lead down below andbut I
> > it made a noticeable difference in tacking in windy conditions.
> That's about 16-17%
> > more ballast. I agree, the high sides of the Micro/Long Micro do
> mean there's quite a
> > bit of windage. The lead is removeable (in two 45lb blocks),
> only take it out ifin
> > I'm weekending with a friend and have lots of gear aboard. Even
> then I usually don't
> > bother!
> >
> > I've never sailed a Micro, but maybe you need another reef point
> the mainsail forboat
> > your conditions? Or reef/strike the mizzen? (As a test,
> try "depowering" the mizzen
> > by loosening the sheet until it just starts to flap...so the
> is powered by mainbe
> > alone.) With a shallow keel, like Long Micro, she might like to
> sailed relativelyhad
> > upright to give the keel a chance to "bite" into the water.
> >
> > Just my two cents,
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > Long Micro Mini-FAQ:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr_faq.htm
> > Long Micro for Sale:http://www.znw.com/homepage/forsale.htm
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <atonkin@b...> wrote:
> > > I have been sailing my Micro for about two years and lately
> herbays "bend"
> > > out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour is
> quite
> > > tricky in these conditions because the headlands and
> andthe
> > > funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I find
> holding
> > > the boat on a windward course quite tricky and
> somtimes "exciting"
> > > She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in the
> gusts.
> > > Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro
> and
> > > what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
> > > conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the
> way,
> > > you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!
> > >
> > > I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with
> > > Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this onelong
> termthe
> > > in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the following
> questions
> > > re Black Skimmer:
> > >
> > > 1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read
> > > schooner pages etc etc?requirement?
> > > 2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
> > > 3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
> > > singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this
> > > 4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger andMicro
> Friends
> > > or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my
> > > plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they requiresome
> > > money for the catalogue.pleased
> > > 5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black
> Skimmer
> > > and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?
> > >
> > > I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be
> to
> > > here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dan_gonneau" <info@z...> wrote:
her lines and I built her with plywood that is about 20% lighter
than the normal stuff. Also my keel is not free flooding. The lead
ballast is pretty close to the 420lbs recommended though. When I
pull her out for a bottom scrub, I plan to do some modifications and
refurbishment so a little extra wieght will do the job. I'll also
experiment with the mizzen and ease it off as recommended,
Thanks
John
I'm not sure if this is going to help you, but if you sail solo a
lot you might consider
> Dan,You may have hit onto something here. My Micro does not float on
her lines and I built her with plywood that is about 20% lighter
than the normal stuff. Also my keel is not free flooding. The lead
ballast is pretty close to the 420lbs recommended though. When I
pull her out for a bottom scrub, I plan to do some modifications and
refurbishment so a little extra wieght will do the job. I'll also
experiment with the mizzen and ease it off as recommended,
Thanks
John
I'm not sure if this is going to help you, but if you sail solo a
lot you might consider
> adding a bit more ballast (internal) to give the boat more "oomph"into the wind. The
> boat was probably designed for two sailing, so sailing solo shemight be a bit lighter
> than optimum for the conditions.lead down below and
>
> On my own Long Micro, I often sail solo as well. I added 90lb of
> it made a noticeable difference in tacking in windy conditions.That's about 16-17%
> more ballast. I agree, the high sides of the Micro/Long Micro domean there's quite a
> bit of windage. The lead is removeable (in two 45lb blocks), butI only take it out if
> I'm weekending with a friend and have lots of gear aboard. Eventhen I usually don't
> bother!in the mainsail for
>
> I've never sailed a Micro, but maybe you need another reef point
> your conditions? Or reef/strike the mizzen? (As a test,try "depowering" the mizzen
> by loosening the sheet until it just starts to flap...so the boatis powered by main
> alone.) With a shallow keel, like Long Micro, she might like to besailed relatively
> upright to give the keel a chance to "bite" into the water.her
>
> Just my two cents,
>
> Dan
>
> Long Micro Mini-FAQ:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr_faq.htm
> Long Micro for Sale:http://www.znw.com/homepage/forsale.htm
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <atonkin@b...> wrote:
> > I have been sailing my Micro for about two years and lately had
> > out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour isquite
> > tricky in these conditions because the headlands and bays "bend"and
> > funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I findholding
> > the boat on a windward course quite tricky andsomtimes "exciting"
> > She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in thegusts.
> > Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a microand
> > what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in theseway,
> > conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the
> > you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!the
> >
> > I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with
> > Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this one longterm
> > in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the followingquestions
> > re Black Skimmer:Friends
> >
> > 1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read the
> > schooner pages etc etc?
> > 2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
> > 3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
> > singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this requirement?
> > 4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger and
> > or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my MicroSkimmer
> > plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they require some
> > money for the catalogue.
> > 5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black
> > and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?pleased to
> >
> > I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be
> > here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@y...> wrote:
want to obtain a copy of this book.
very stylish sharpies.
I sent off for the Black Skimmer plans today. I also think that
Black Skimmer looks "overpowered" in the sail area, but there may be
ways around this. She looks like she has plenty of reef points to
help with the old adage "reef early and often" (especially in the
Micro. I have read some articles where she has been sailed
singlehanded. The reference site for Bolger books turned up some
second hand copies so I might invest. Are you sailing a Bolger
design,
Cheers,
John
> Black Skimmer is featured in Bolger's second book "The FoldingSchooner" which is long out of print. Try www.biblioz.com if you
want to obtain a copy of this book.
>might sell plans for Black Skimmer.
> I'm not sure but I think Harold Payson at www.instantboats.com
>in the typically windy summer conditions we get here in Australia.
> As to single-handed sailing, Black Skimmer might be a bit too much
>to sail quite fast in light air for a boat of her type. They are
> She has a relatively large sail area for her size and is reported
very stylish sharpies.
> Black Skimmer has a "hiking" board for some brave crew member!Thanks Hugo,
>
>
>
> Hugo Tyson, Tasmania
>
I sent off for the Black Skimmer plans today. I also think that
Black Skimmer looks "overpowered" in the sail area, but there may be
ways around this. She looks like she has plenty of reef points to
help with the old adage "reef early and often" (especially in the
Micro. I have read some articles where she has been sailed
singlehanded. The reference site for Bolger books turned up some
second hand copies so I might invest. Are you sailing a Bolger
design,
Cheers,
John
>about two years and lately had her
>
>
>
> mannthree <atonkin@b...> wrote:I have been sailing my Micro for
> out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour is quiteand
> tricky in these conditions because the headlands and bays "bend"
> funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I findholding
> the boat on a windward course quite tricky andsomtimes "exciting"
> She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in thegusts.
> Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro andway,
> what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
> conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the
> you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!term
>
> I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with the
> Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this one long
> in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the following questionsFriends
> re Black Skimmer:
>
> 1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read the
> schooner pages etc etc?
> 2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
> 3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
> singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this requirement?
> 4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger and
> or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my MicroSkimmer
> plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they require some
> money for the catalogue.
> 5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black
> and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?to
>
> I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased
> here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,posts
>
> Regards,
>
> John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comService.
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <atonkin@b...> wrote:
at building this summer - to sail on Moreton Bay (I'm in Brisbane) -
love to discuss micros further and draw on your experience - I
notice the group also has a member in Clerment in Queensland as
well - Geoff, Brisbane QLD
> "I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleasedto
> here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders"John - not a builder or sailer of a Micro yet but looking seriously
at building this summer - to sail on Moreton Bay (I'm in Brisbane) -
love to discuss micros further and draw on your experience - I
notice the group also has a member in Clerment in Queensland as
well - Geoff, Brisbane QLD
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <atonkin@b...> wrote:
I've had many occassions to sail my ex-Micro LESTAT in winds of
20 + knots and it is great. I have found that the best way to really
get anywhere involves some savy:-) To begin,you must ensure that you
have a nice tight reef tucked in and that the snotter is hauled in
tight on the mainsail.Next,the mizzen,too must be sheeted in real
tight. Instead of trying to see how close to the wind you can still
point,try heading off just a bit.This will keep the boat speed up and
you can punch through some of the waves better without losing
positive helm response.It has also been my experience that it helps
to begin sailing her like a dinghy when the winds pipe up,ie;hands on
the mainsheet and tiller.That is,not the more usual lazymans approach
where she sails herself :-). Unless the winds are very steady at that
speed in your area,do not cleat the mainsheet.
This is not a relaxing form of sailing but more a sport at this
point and it will give you a work out both in your arms,hands and
legs as you skittle quickly from one side to the other as you perform
lightening tacks!Hopefully too,your ultimate destination is
downwind,which is always a nice way to cap off a wet,bouncy upwind
slug :-)
Adding more ballast will not necessarily increase boat speed and
may,in fact,over-stress the hull and damage the rig by keeping the
boat bolt up-right instead of healing to relieve wind preasure,as
designed.
In the end,however, it should be kept in mind that winds above 20
knots means that there is at least a small craft warning out and that
the Micro,despite all her wonderful virtues,qualifies as a small
craft.Good seamanship,prudence and perhaps even common sense should
be brought to bear under such conditions and serious consideration
given before leaving the quay. The fact that the Micro rig calls for
2 deep reefs and that her hull is self righting should not be taken
as endorsements to recklessness but rather as built in safety devices
should you get caught out in worsening weather conditions and need to
find a safe harbour.
I'm confident that as your sailing skills improve so too will
your awareness of your boats limits.In fact,it may well be your own
limits,in terms of comfort and enjoyment,which will decide when to
call it a day.Micro can take more then we sometimes wish to handle or
deal with:-)
Happy Sailing!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who,like David Jost,also misses his own Micro and looks
forward to hearing of Nels' adventures in her.........
> Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro andHi John,
> what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
> conditions.
I've had many occassions to sail my ex-Micro LESTAT in winds of
20 + knots and it is great. I have found that the best way to really
get anywhere involves some savy:-) To begin,you must ensure that you
have a nice tight reef tucked in and that the snotter is hauled in
tight on the mainsail.Next,the mizzen,too must be sheeted in real
tight. Instead of trying to see how close to the wind you can still
point,try heading off just a bit.This will keep the boat speed up and
you can punch through some of the waves better without losing
positive helm response.It has also been my experience that it helps
to begin sailing her like a dinghy when the winds pipe up,ie;hands on
the mainsheet and tiller.That is,not the more usual lazymans approach
where she sails herself :-). Unless the winds are very steady at that
speed in your area,do not cleat the mainsheet.
This is not a relaxing form of sailing but more a sport at this
point and it will give you a work out both in your arms,hands and
legs as you skittle quickly from one side to the other as you perform
lightening tacks!Hopefully too,your ultimate destination is
downwind,which is always a nice way to cap off a wet,bouncy upwind
slug :-)
Adding more ballast will not necessarily increase boat speed and
may,in fact,over-stress the hull and damage the rig by keeping the
boat bolt up-right instead of healing to relieve wind preasure,as
designed.
In the end,however, it should be kept in mind that winds above 20
knots means that there is at least a small craft warning out and that
the Micro,despite all her wonderful virtues,qualifies as a small
craft.Good seamanship,prudence and perhaps even common sense should
be brought to bear under such conditions and serious consideration
given before leaving the quay. The fact that the Micro rig calls for
2 deep reefs and that her hull is self righting should not be taken
as endorsements to recklessness but rather as built in safety devices
should you get caught out in worsening weather conditions and need to
find a safe harbour.
I'm confident that as your sailing skills improve so too will
your awareness of your boats limits.In fact,it may well be your own
limits,in terms of comfort and enjoyment,which will decide when to
call it a day.Micro can take more then we sometimes wish to handle or
deal with:-)
Happy Sailing!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who,like David Jost,also misses his own Micro and looks
forward to hearing of Nels' adventures in her.........
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
viable option to BLACK SKIMMER although MARTHA JANE was the actual
design that was meant to update BLACK SKIMMER.
LONG MICRO as designed, does not have a lot of ballest (532 lbs of
lead plus free-flooding keel.) So it will benefit by having added
weight if sailed single handed. The 4 feet of length added to to the
center area means an extra 100 cubic feet or space inside, so there
is lots of room to carry stores and other goodies, plus being able to
handle a larger motor.
I like the salient keel and lead ballest down low compared to water
ballest and leeboards.
With a doghous it would be a pretty good motorsailer able to make
some pretty hefty passages I would suggest not fast, but comfortably.
(I have some sketches of such an animal in Bolger 3)
Cheers, Nels
> I miss this boat and am considering the feasability of "longI agree that a person should take a serious look at LONG MICRO as a
> micro", or the queen of the fleet AS29.
> Anways, if you need to go upwind to port, turn on the motor! It
> is well positioned to keep the prop in the water regardless of heel
> and waves.
>
> David Jost
> former Micro owner
viable option to BLACK SKIMMER although MARTHA JANE was the actual
design that was meant to update BLACK SKIMMER.
LONG MICRO as designed, does not have a lot of ballest (532 lbs of
lead plus free-flooding keel.) So it will benefit by having added
weight if sailed single handed. The 4 feet of length added to to the
center area means an extra 100 cubic feet or space inside, so there
is lots of room to carry stores and other goodies, plus being able to
handle a larger motor.
I like the salient keel and lead ballest down low compared to water
ballest and leeboards.
With a doghous it would be a pretty good motorsailer able to make
some pretty hefty passages I would suggest not fast, but comfortably.
(I have some sketches of such an animal in Bolger 3)
Cheers, Nels
In "Firefly", I found that the boat was great in about 15 kts of
wind. As the waves increased, the boat made progressively
significant leeway until reefed and we could sail flatter. With only
18" of keel in the water, you are operating in surface water that is
moving a lot. I suspect adding more ballast would be helpful in
adding stability and draft.
I miss this boat and am considering the feasability of "long
micro", or the queen of the fleet AS29.
Anways, if you need to go upwind to port, turn on the motor! It
is well positioned to keep the prop in the water regardless of heel
and waves.
David Jost
former Micro owner
wind. As the waves increased, the boat made progressively
significant leeway until reefed and we could sail flatter. With only
18" of keel in the water, you are operating in surface water that is
moving a lot. I suspect adding more ballast would be helpful in
adding stability and draft.
I miss this boat and am considering the feasability of "long
micro", or the queen of the fleet AS29.
Anways, if you need to go upwind to port, turn on the motor! It
is well positioned to keep the prop in the water regardless of heel
and waves.
David Jost
former Micro owner
I 2nd Dans sugestion more ballest. It will amaze you how much
differance that it makes. 200 lb would not be to much. secured of
course. I was out a few years back with 4 full size people(2 couples)
on board 1 standing in the hatch the other 3 in the cockpit. Reefed,
wind was over 20 and gusting to 30 mph. She sailed far better on all
points than with me alone. Tom, Micro Anna-Lynn
differance that it makes. 200 lb would not be to much. secured of
course. I was out a few years back with 4 full size people(2 couples)
on board 1 standing in the hatch the other 3 in the cockpit. Reefed,
wind was over 20 and gusting to 30 mph. She sailed far better on all
points than with me alone. Tom, Micro Anna-Lynn
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dan_gonneau" <info@z...> wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is going to help you, but if you sail solo a
lot you might consider
> adding a bit more ballast (internal) to give the boat more "oomph"
into the wind. The
> boat was probably designed for two sailing, so sailing solo she
might be a bit lighter
> than optimum for the conditions.
>
> On my own Long Micro, I often sail solo as well. I added 90lb of
lead down below and
> it made a noticeable difference in tacking in windy conditions.
That's about 16-17%
> more ballast. I agree, the high sides of the Micro/Long Micro do
mean there's quite a
> bit of windage. The lead is removeable (in two 45lb blocks), but I
only take it out if
> I'm weekending with a friend and have lots of gear aboard. Even
then I usually don't
> bother!
>
> I've never sailed a Micro, but maybe you need another reef point in
the mainsail for
> your conditions? Or reef/strike the mizzen? (As a test,
try "depowering" the mizzen
> by loosening the sheet until it just starts to flap...so the boat
is powered by main
> alone.) With a shallow keel, like Long Micro, she might like to be
sailed relatively
> upright to give the keel a chance to "bite" into the water.
>
> Just my two cents,
>
> Dan
>
> Long Micro Mini-FAQ:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr_faq.htm
> Long Micro for Sale:http://www.znw.com/homepage/forsale.htm
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <atonkin@b...> wrote:
> > I have been sailing my Micro for about two years and lately had
her
> > out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour is
quite
> > tricky in these conditions because the headlands and bays "bend"
and
> > funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I find
holding
> > the boat on a windward course quite tricky and
somtimes "exciting"
> > She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in the
gusts.
> > Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro
and
> > what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
> > conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the
way,
> > you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!
> >
> > I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with the
> > Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this one long
term
> > in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the following
questions
> > re Black Skimmer:
> >
> > 1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read the
> > schooner pages etc etc?
> > 2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
> > 3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
> > singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this requirement?
> > 4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger and
Friends
> > or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my Micro
> > plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they require some
> > money for the catalogue.
> > 5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black
Skimmer
> > and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?
> >
> > I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased
to
> > here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)
I'm not sure if this is going to help you, but if you sail solo a lot you might consider
adding a bit more ballast (internal) to give the boat more "oomph" into the wind. The
boat was probably designed for two sailing, so sailing solo she might be a bit lighter
than optimum for the conditions.
On my own Long Micro, I often sail solo as well. I added 90lb of lead down below and
it made a noticeable difference in tacking in windy conditions. That's about 16-17%
more ballast. I agree, the high sides of the Micro/Long Micro do mean there's quite a
bit of windage. The lead is removeable (in two 45lb blocks), but I only take it out if
I'm weekending with a friend and have lots of gear aboard. Even then I usually don't
bother!
I've never sailed a Micro, but maybe you need another reef point in the mainsail for
your conditions? Or reef/strike the mizzen? (As a test, try "depowering" the mizzen
by loosening the sheet until it just starts to flap...so the boat is powered by main
alone.) With a shallow keel, like Long Micro, she might like to be sailed relatively
upright to give the keel a chance to "bite" into the water.
Just my two cents,
Dan
Long Micro Mini-FAQ:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr_faq.htm
Long Micro for Sale:http://www.znw.com/homepage/forsale.htm
adding a bit more ballast (internal) to give the boat more "oomph" into the wind. The
boat was probably designed for two sailing, so sailing solo she might be a bit lighter
than optimum for the conditions.
On my own Long Micro, I often sail solo as well. I added 90lb of lead down below and
it made a noticeable difference in tacking in windy conditions. That's about 16-17%
more ballast. I agree, the high sides of the Micro/Long Micro do mean there's quite a
bit of windage. The lead is removeable (in two 45lb blocks), but I only take it out if
I'm weekending with a friend and have lots of gear aboard. Even then I usually don't
bother!
I've never sailed a Micro, but maybe you need another reef point in the mainsail for
your conditions? Or reef/strike the mizzen? (As a test, try "depowering" the mizzen
by loosening the sheet until it just starts to flap...so the boat is powered by main
alone.) With a shallow keel, like Long Micro, she might like to be sailed relatively
upright to give the keel a chance to "bite" into the water.
Just my two cents,
Dan
Long Micro Mini-FAQ:http://www.znw.com/homepage/zephyr_faq.htm
Long Micro for Sale:http://www.znw.com/homepage/forsale.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <atonkin@b...> wrote:
> I have been sailing my Micro for about two years and lately had her
> out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour is quite
> tricky in these conditions because the headlands and bays "bend" and
> funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I find holding
> the boat on a windward course quite tricky and somtimes "exciting"
> She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in the gusts.
> Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro and
> what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
> conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the way,
> you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!
>
> I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with the
> Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this one long term
> in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the following questions
> re Black Skimmer:
>
> 1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read the
> schooner pages etc etc?
> 2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
> 3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
> singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this requirement?
> 4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger and Friends
> or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my Micro
> plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they require some
> money for the catalogue.
> 5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black Skimmer
> and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?
>
> I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased to
> here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,
>
> Regards,
>
> John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)
I have not sailed any of these boats, but I have a couple of opinions.
1) If you are interested in Otter II, write directly to Bolger. He
wrote some years ago that he was not completely satsified with the
design, so he may have an alternate suggestion, or mods to the plans.
2) For info on Black Skimmer, you could try communicating directly
with Mike O'Brien for whom the design was originally made.
(http://www.woodenboat.com/bdq.htm)You can even find his phone
number here:http://www.woodenboat.com/htreach.htm.
3) IMHO, for the conditions you describe, you want a more complex
hull shape than a sharpie. Chebacco owners love the sort of
conditions you describe.
By the way, for every boat there is a wind strength which is the
srongest agains which it can make progress to windward. With
increasing wind speed, the drag of the wind on the topsides keeps
going up while the sail area is reduced to keep the heeling force
more or less constant. A high sided boat like the Micro is going to
reach the limit in a lower wind range than a low-sided boat.
Peter
Peter
1) If you are interested in Otter II, write directly to Bolger. He
wrote some years ago that he was not completely satsified with the
design, so he may have an alternate suggestion, or mods to the plans.
2) For info on Black Skimmer, you could try communicating directly
with Mike O'Brien for whom the design was originally made.
(http://www.woodenboat.com/bdq.htm)You can even find his phone
number here:http://www.woodenboat.com/htreach.htm.
3) IMHO, for the conditions you describe, you want a more complex
hull shape than a sharpie. Chebacco owners love the sort of
conditions you describe.
By the way, for every boat there is a wind strength which is the
srongest agains which it can make progress to windward. With
increasing wind speed, the drag of the wind on the topsides keeps
going up while the sail area is reduced to keep the heeling force
more or less constant. A high sided boat like the Micro is going to
reach the limit in a lower wind range than a low-sided boat.
Peter
Peter
Black Skimmer is featured in Bolger's second book "The Folding Schooner" which is long out of print. Try www.biblioz.com if you want to obtain a copy of this book.
I'm not sure but I think Harold Payson at www.instantboats.com might sell plans for Black Skimmer.
As to single-handed sailing, Black Skimmer might be a bit too much in the typically windy summer conditions we get here in Australia.
She has a relatively large sail area for her size and is reported to sail quite fast in light air for a boat of her type. They are very stylish sharpies.
Black Skimmer has a "hiking" board for some brave crew member!
Hugo Tyson, Tasmania
mannthree <atonkin@...> wrote:I have been sailing my Micro for about two years and lately had her
out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour is quite
tricky in these conditions because the headlands and bays "bend" and
funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I find holding
the boat on a windward course quite tricky and somtimes "exciting"
She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in the gusts.
Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro and
what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the way,
you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!
I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with the
Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this one long term
in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the following questions
re Black Skimmer:
1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read the
schooner pages etc etc?
2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this requirement?
4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger and Friends
or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my Micro
plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they require some
money for the catalogue.
5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black Skimmer
and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?
I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased to
here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,
Regards,
John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not sure but I think Harold Payson at www.instantboats.com might sell plans for Black Skimmer.
As to single-handed sailing, Black Skimmer might be a bit too much in the typically windy summer conditions we get here in Australia.
She has a relatively large sail area for her size and is reported to sail quite fast in light air for a boat of her type. They are very stylish sharpies.
Black Skimmer has a "hiking" board for some brave crew member!
Hugo Tyson, Tasmania
mannthree <atonkin@...> wrote:I have been sailing my Micro for about two years and lately had her
out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour is quite
tricky in these conditions because the headlands and bays "bend" and
funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I find holding
the boat on a windward course quite tricky and somtimes "exciting"
She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in the gusts.
Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro and
what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the way,
you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!
I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with the
Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this one long term
in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the following questions
re Black Skimmer:
1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read the
schooner pages etc etc?
2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this requirement?
4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger and Friends
or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my Micro
plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they require some
money for the catalogue.
5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black Skimmer
and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?
I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased to
here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,
Regards,
John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
- New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have been sailing my Micro for about two years and lately had her
out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour is quite
tricky in these conditions because the headlands and bays "bend" and
funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I find holding
the boat on a windward course quite tricky and somtimes "exciting"
She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in the gusts.
Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro and
what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the way,
you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!
I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with the
Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this one long term
in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the following questions
re Black Skimmer:
1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read the
schooner pages etc etc?
2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this requirement?
4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger and Friends
or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my Micro
plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they require some
money for the catalogue.
5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black Skimmer
and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?
I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased to
here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,
Regards,
John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)
out in 20knots plus with the main reefed. Sydney harbour is quite
tricky in these conditions because the headlands and bays "bend" and
funnel the wind so that it becomes quite changeable. I find holding
the boat on a windward course quite tricky and somtimes "exciting"
She has never been knocked down but simply rounds up in the gusts.
Has anyone out there had experience in 20knots plus in a micro and
what are the tricks to get her to sail to windward in these
conditions. I find that I tack a lot but get nowhere. By the way,
you may have deduced already that I'm not a brilliant sailor!
I have also read all the post items on this site dealing with the
Black Skimmer. I am looking for another project (this one long term
in my retirement in about 5 years. I have the following questions
re Black Skimmer:
1 Are there any other sites or pictures around (I have read the
schooner pages etc etc?
2 Is it detailed in "Boats with an Open Mind"?
3. Can she be sailed by one person. I do most of my sailing
singlehanded so any new boat will have to meet this requirement?
4. Is it better to get plans directly from Phil Bolger and Friends
or from Instant Boats or Common Sense Boats? I bought my Micro
plans from CSD but have noticed recently that they require some
money for the catalogue.
5. Is the Otter ? Otter2 a scaled down version of the Black Skimmer
and are there any good pictures around of these two boats?
I know of two other Microphiles in Australia and would be pleased to
here from others as well as any Black Skimmer owners/builders,
Regards,
John Mann (Sydney Sailing weather is 34C mid summer)