Re: Micro - clearance for building
The major issue is the sliding hatch and working in the cockpit (the
builder won't be able to stand up. I would do as much in the garage
as possible, then pull it out to finish.
Have you attached the keel yet?
Davidjost
builder won't be able to stand up. I would do as much in the garage
as possible, then pull it out to finish.
Have you attached the keel yet?
Davidjost
Geoff,
You just have to get creative.
Years ago at Oshgosh, WI, at the Experimental Aircraft Association's annual
fly-in/show, there was a bulletin board showing pictures of a Thorp T-18
built in a basement. When the fuselage was complete, the fellow cut a huge
hole in his (hardwood) dining room floor, hoisted the plane out, and then
rebuilt the floor. Creative thinking and extraordinary sales ability (yes,
he had a wife).
Without studying the Micro, it seems to me that many of Bolger's designs can
be built in modules with a little extra jigging and very careful
measurements. I plan to use this on my Chebacco
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/Chebacco.htmlto better align the parts and
save some bendovers.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
You just have to get creative.
Years ago at Oshgosh, WI, at the Experimental Aircraft Association's annual
fly-in/show, there was a bulletin board showing pictures of a Thorp T-18
built in a basement. When the fuselage was complete, the fellow cut a huge
hole in his (hardwood) dining room floor, hoisted the plane out, and then
rebuilt the floor. Creative thinking and extraordinary sales ability (yes,
he had a wife).
Without studying the Micro, it seems to me that many of Bolger's designs can
be built in modules with a little extra jigging and very careful
measurements. I plan to use this on my Chebacco
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net/Chebacco.htmlto better align the parts and
save some bendovers.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
Does anyone have an opinion about
www.sailcut.com software for
panel cutting of a sail, in my
case a Micro Navigator sail?
Some of the terminology, especially
the 'sail mold' and profile paramaters
are unclear to me.
See screen shot at:
http://hallman.org/bolger/micro/sail.gif
Also, something is wrong with my data,
or perhaps the software is [hopelessly
buggy?] as I get 'overflow' crashes when
I try to tweak the gaff angle.
Lots of numbers come out when you view
the panel cuts, but the important numbers
are the 'pooch' in the middle seams which
calc to a maximum of 30mm. Seems flat.
I think I would be tempted to achieve the
pooch by putting some 30mm darts on the
edges of my polytarp.
www.sailcut.com software for
panel cutting of a sail, in my
case a Micro Navigator sail?
Some of the terminology, especially
the 'sail mold' and profile paramaters
are unclear to me.
See screen shot at:
http://hallman.org/bolger/micro/sail.gif
Also, something is wrong with my data,
or perhaps the software is [hopelessly
buggy?] as I get 'overflow' crashes when
I try to tweak the gaff angle.
Lots of numbers come out when you view
the panel cuts, but the important numbers
are the 'pooch' in the middle seams which
calc to a maximum of 30mm. Seems flat.
I think I would be tempted to achieve the
pooch by putting some 30mm darts on the
edges of my polytarp.
Geoff,
I'm currently building a micro in a garage with a door just a hair over 7'
high, though I'm about to push it outdoors for the winter, my wife wants
'her' garage back! I built it upside down on a 4'x 16" strongback made of
2x6's, with triangular 3/4" plywood gussets in the corners with holes
drilled before building to later accept casters. Once I got the hull
together, I jacked it up and bolted 4 casters into the corner gussets,
rolled it outside, rolled the whole boat/strongback over on a tarp on the
lawn. Persuading the upright hull back onto the liberated strongback was
amazingly easy, I just took advantage of the extreme rocker of the hull to
rock and wiggle it into place. Once I got it centered and levelled upright
on the strongback, I built supports and turned the strongback into a cradle,
and have continued to roll the boat in and out of the garage. My garage has
at best ~3' working room on one side of the boat, which is usually occupied
by 2 motorcycles, so to work I kick the bikes outdoors and push the boat
around to get access where I need it. When I need to make dust, I wait for a
nice day and push it outdoors and let the wind blow the mess away; when I'm
not working on it for long periods I roll it outdoors and push it clean off
the driveway onto scrap luan strips over our gravel side apron, jack it up
on blocks to keep the casters from rusting and throw a tarp over it. I plan
to install the keel outdoors, put it on a trailer and see if the boat can go
back inside or not; if not I'll come up with a temporary shelter while I do
the finish work. It is less than 7' tall right now, on its cradle, and I
plan to look for a drop-axle trailer per David Jost's advice, for ease of
launching at shallow ramps - but this type of low-rider trailer may also
allow you (and me) to get it back in the garage on the trailer once built.
Even if you can't get it completely built within the confines of your
garage, you can certainly get it stuck together, glassed and otherwise
sealed inside and out well enough so it is ready for the weather with little
or no protection, perhaps just a small temporary cover of plywood and a tarp
over the hole if you can't finish the companionway indoors. I am at this
stage now, so even if my tarp blows away again in a blizzard and it fills
with snow or rain, I know no real harm will come to my unfinished but
weatherproof boat.
Paul Lefebvre
I'm currently building a micro in a garage with a door just a hair over 7'
high, though I'm about to push it outdoors for the winter, my wife wants
'her' garage back! I built it upside down on a 4'x 16" strongback made of
2x6's, with triangular 3/4" plywood gussets in the corners with holes
drilled before building to later accept casters. Once I got the hull
together, I jacked it up and bolted 4 casters into the corner gussets,
rolled it outside, rolled the whole boat/strongback over on a tarp on the
lawn. Persuading the upright hull back onto the liberated strongback was
amazingly easy, I just took advantage of the extreme rocker of the hull to
rock and wiggle it into place. Once I got it centered and levelled upright
on the strongback, I built supports and turned the strongback into a cradle,
and have continued to roll the boat in and out of the garage. My garage has
at best ~3' working room on one side of the boat, which is usually occupied
by 2 motorcycles, so to work I kick the bikes outdoors and push the boat
around to get access where I need it. When I need to make dust, I wait for a
nice day and push it outdoors and let the wind blow the mess away; when I'm
not working on it for long periods I roll it outdoors and push it clean off
the driveway onto scrap luan strips over our gravel side apron, jack it up
on blocks to keep the casters from rusting and throw a tarp over it. I plan
to install the keel outdoors, put it on a trailer and see if the boat can go
back inside or not; if not I'll come up with a temporary shelter while I do
the finish work. It is less than 7' tall right now, on its cradle, and I
plan to look for a drop-axle trailer per David Jost's advice, for ease of
launching at shallow ramps - but this type of low-rider trailer may also
allow you (and me) to get it back in the garage on the trailer once built.
Even if you can't get it completely built within the confines of your
garage, you can certainly get it stuck together, glassed and otherwise
sealed inside and out well enough so it is ready for the weather with little
or no protection, perhaps just a small temporary cover of plywood and a tarp
over the hole if you can't finish the companionway indoors. I am at this
stage now, so even if my tarp blows away again in a blizzard and it fills
with snow or rain, I know no real harm will come to my unfinished but
weatherproof boat.
Paul Lefebvre
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoff.waite@t...> wrote:
> HAd not planned to but now that you mention it I might take a lookBruce, John, Peter, Rick - thanks for the guidance. Unfortunately
> the floor is 4 inches of concrete (tough even for a trench Rick!)and
> the steel beam is, well, its a steel beam. The answer may be amore
> combination of what has been suggested - check the tolerances in
> detail for the building phase and, if I need to, build in the shopas
> much as I can then move outside for all the world to see in mysmall
> front yard for the next stage (ie keel and cabin top and mastadvice -
> tabernacle etc). The storage part may come down to design of the
> trailer with a move to something that can get the keel as close to
> the axle (and with small wheels)as possible. Thanks for the
> its been a great introduction to this group. I'll keep posting on
> progress and keep asking dumb questions (John - are you planning on
> attending the 2004 classic & wooden boat festival at the National
> Maritime Museum in Darling Harbour, early march?)
> Geoff
Hi Geoff
You can definitely do it
Our Micro is sitting on its trailer on a concrete pad, under a tripled 2 by
10 beam. The trailer can be rolled under a standard 'up and over' garage
door if (a) the sliding hatch is open and (b) the tongue jack is cranked
down until the tongue is as low as it can get. If you need an absolute
measurement let me know, but I don't think you do...
I built the hull upside down in the garage, and a couple of us dragged it
ouside using some old carpet scraps as skids. We rolled it over and returned
it to the garage without incident. I hung the lead keel under it while the
whole assembly sat on a simple cradle made from 2 by 4s. The lead was moved
into position on a dolly, also made from scrap ply and lumber. When all was
ready the three inch diameter castors were removed from what had been the
lead dolly and were bolted in place under the cradle. Then the whole
assembly was rolled outside where the transfer to the trailer was
accomplished. One weakling, no problem.
If I was in a really tight spot, I'd look hard at the possibility of
redesigning the sliding hatch rails as a bolt-on component.
cheers
Derek
You can definitely do it
Our Micro is sitting on its trailer on a concrete pad, under a tripled 2 by
10 beam. The trailer can be rolled under a standard 'up and over' garage
door if (a) the sliding hatch is open and (b) the tongue jack is cranked
down until the tongue is as low as it can get. If you need an absolute
measurement let me know, but I don't think you do...
I built the hull upside down in the garage, and a couple of us dragged it
ouside using some old carpet scraps as skids. We rolled it over and returned
it to the garage without incident. I hung the lead keel under it while the
whole assembly sat on a simple cradle made from 2 by 4s. The lead was moved
into position on a dolly, also made from scrap ply and lumber. When all was
ready the three inch diameter castors were removed from what had been the
lead dolly and were bolted in place under the cradle. Then the whole
assembly was rolled outside where the transfer to the trailer was
accomplished. One weakling, no problem.
If I was in a really tight spot, I'd look hard at the possibility of
redesigning the sliding hatch rails as a bolt-on component.
cheers
Derek
Bruce, John, Peter, Rick - thanks for the guidance. Unfortunately
the floor is 4 inches of concrete (tough even for a trench Rick!) and
the steel beam is, well, its a steel beam. The answer may be a
combination of what has been suggested - check the tolerances in more
detail for the building phase and, if I need to, build in the shop as
much as I can then move outside for all the world to see in my small
front yard for the next stage (ie keel and cabin top and mast
tabernacle etc). The storage part may come down to design of the
trailer with a move to something that can get the keel as close to
the axle (and with small wheels)as possible. Thanks for the advice -
its been a great introduction to this group. I'll keep posting on
progress and keep asking dumb questions (John - are you planning on
attending the 2004 classic & wooden boat festival at the National
Maritime Museum in Darling Harbour, early march?)
Geoff
the floor is 4 inches of concrete (tough even for a trench Rick!) and
the steel beam is, well, its a steel beam. The answer may be a
combination of what has been suggested - check the tolerances in more
detail for the building phase and, if I need to, build in the shop as
much as I can then move outside for all the world to see in my small
front yard for the next stage (ie keel and cabin top and mast
tabernacle etc). The storage part may come down to design of the
trailer with a move to something that can get the keel as close to
the axle (and with small wheels)as possible. Thanks for the advice -
its been a great introduction to this group. I'll keep posting on
progress and keep asking dumb questions (John - are you planning on
attending the 2004 classic & wooden boat festival at the National
Maritime Museum in Darling Harbour, early march?)
Geoff
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoff.waite@t...> wrote:
The clearance you have is going to make it rather challenging to
build a Micro. This does not mean it is impossible.......just that it
will test your resolve,inventiveness and resources.
As to trailer height,it does depend somewhat on how you intend on
trailering her(sitting on a craddle vs custom trailer).Neverthless,7'
will be very very tight if not impossible regardless of type of
trailer.
Does your workshop have a dirt floor which could be perhaps
lowered with a pick and shovel?
Perhaps a higher temporary shelter(bowshed?) could be built
outside your shop to accommodate the boat?
Hope this helps inspire a workable solution for your Micro building
project.She is worth it!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,ex owner/builder of the Micro LESTAT...........
> I'm planning the building of my Micro, but have some spacestreet
> restrictions (height). I have 7 feet of clearance (floor to
> underside of steel beam) in my workshop and no other external space
> to use, and wanted to check if (1) anyone can recall if that is
> sufficient to build the boat (I can take it outside on to the
> to turn over); and (2) what an average height of a Micro on aGeoff,
> trailer might be for storage purposes? Grateful for any guidance
> Thanks
> Geoff
The clearance you have is going to make it rather challenging to
build a Micro. This does not mean it is impossible.......just that it
will test your resolve,inventiveness and resources.
As to trailer height,it does depend somewhat on how you intend on
trailering her(sitting on a craddle vs custom trailer).Neverthless,7'
will be very very tight if not impossible regardless of type of
trailer.
Does your workshop have a dirt floor which could be perhaps
lowered with a pick and shovel?
Perhaps a higher temporary shelter(bowshed?) could be built
outside your shop to accommodate the boat?
Hope this helps inspire a workable solution for your Micro building
project.She is worth it!
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,ex owner/builder of the Micro LESTAT...........
You wouldn't have to lower the entire floor, just a narrow trench for
the keel.......
Rick
the keel.......
Rick
>
>
>
>
> Does your workshop have a dirt floor which could be perhaps
> lowered with a pick and shovel?
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, bruce@h... wrote:
Provided you have the transom as per plan,a short shaft will do
just fine.
Peter Lenihan
> Would someone care to give me advice:Hi Bruce,
> Does a Micro transom require a long
> shaft outboard, or will a short shaft
> be better?
Provided you have the transom as per plan,a short shaft will do
just fine.
Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff" <geoff.waite@t...> wrote:
the micro and the top of these are about 25" from the ground. The C
bulkhead is probably the highest point on the Micro's superstructure
and it is between 4.5' and 4.75' high (excluding the keel and
including the hatch). Based of these figures you will probably just
scrape under. Remember that you willneed about 3' around the boat
for working space.
You do not require a trailer to build or fit out the hull, but once
the lead keel goes on, and if the boat is still in the workshop, you
must have already solved the problem of getting it on the trailer
within the confines of the workshop,
Cheers,
John
I'm planning the building of my Micro, but have some space
> Geoff,My trailer has supports that go under the C bulkhead (I think!) of
the micro and the top of these are about 25" from the ground. The C
bulkhead is probably the highest point on the Micro's superstructure
and it is between 4.5' and 4.75' high (excluding the keel and
including the hatch). Based of these figures you will probably just
scrape under. Remember that you willneed about 3' around the boat
for working space.
You do not require a trailer to build or fit out the hull, but once
the lead keel goes on, and if the boat is still in the workshop, you
must have already solved the problem of getting it on the trailer
within the confines of the workshop,
Cheers,
John
I'm planning the building of my Micro, but have some space
> restrictions (height). I have 7 feet of clearance (floor tostreet
> underside of steel beam) in my workshop and no other external space
> to use, and wanted to check if (1) anyone can recall if that is
> sufficient to build the boat (I can take it outside on to the
> to turn over); and (2) what an average height of a Micro on a
> trailer might be for storage purposes? Grateful for any guidance
> Thanks
> Geoff
Would someone care to give me advice:
Does a Micro transom require a long
shaft outboard, or will a short shaft
be better?
--- "Geoff" <geoff.waite@t...> wrote:
I solved the 'too tall to fit out
the door' problem by waiting to
install the fin/ballast until
after hauling it outside.
Scaling off my plans, a standard
Micro measures 5'7" from top of
cabin hatch to bottom of fin. It
seems possible to put that on a
trailer and still stay under 7 ft,
but it would be close.
Does a Micro transom require a long
shaft outboard, or will a short shaft
be better?
--- "Geoff" <geoff.waite@t...> wrote:
> I have 7 feet of clearanceThis might not work for you, but
I solved the 'too tall to fit out
the door' problem by waiting to
install the fin/ballast until
after hauling it outside.
Scaling off my plans, a standard
Micro measures 5'7" from top of
cabin hatch to bottom of fin. It
seems possible to put that on a
trailer and still stay under 7 ft,
but it would be close.
I'm planning the building of my Micro, but have some space
restrictions (height). I have 7 feet of clearance (floor to
underside of steel beam) in my workshop and no other external space
to use, and wanted to check if (1) anyone can recall if that is
sufficient to build the boat (I can take it outside on to the street
to turn over); and (2) what an average height of a Micro on a
trailer might be for storage purposes? Grateful for any guidance
Thanks
Geoff
restrictions (height). I have 7 feet of clearance (floor to
underside of steel beam) in my workshop and no other external space
to use, and wanted to check if (1) anyone can recall if that is
sufficient to build the boat (I can take it outside on to the street
to turn over); and (2) what an average height of a Micro on a
trailer might be for storage purposes? Grateful for any guidance
Thanks
Geoff