Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
I don't think your 5/16" line is on the light side. Modern ropes are VERY strong.
I would have went with something cheaper, like those 100ft bundles of 3/8" rope you can get at Home Despot and other places for $9.
Halyards need to be low stretch, but sheets can survive with a little stretch.
I would have went with something cheaper, like those 100ft bundles of 3/8" rope you can get at Home Despot and other places for $9.
Halyards need to be low stretch, but sheets can survive with a little stretch.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Matthews" <mike_matthews@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
> The boat is a very light 19' sailboat with a very large, 145 sqft., genoa.
> I don't imagine I'd try and fly that sail in high winds. The foot of the
> genoa is almost 2/3 the length of the boat (that may be a slight
> exageration, but not much).
>
> I bought the rope already using the West Marine Advisor on running
> rigging. With that I selected 5/16" Sta-Set X+ (New England Ropes).
> In hindsight I'm thinking that might be a little on the light side. What
> I'm really having trouble with is trying to find the correct matching
> sheet block. I'll probably just go for overkill and look for something
> rated with a work load of close to 1000lb.
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Spelling
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
>
>
> If you tell us the size of the boat, we can probably give you a rope size, then you can get your block and cleat sizes to fit
that
> rope.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Derek Waters" <dgw@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
>
>
> > "...it's four times [the force] when wind speed doubles..."
> >
> > Yup. Bearing in mind that the loads seen by a block are related to the
> > amount by which the line is turned. A block which turns a load back on
> > itself sees the load doubled. 90 degree deflection equates to 141% load.
> >
> > The Harken catalogue used to have a bunch of loading formulae printed at the
> > back. Mainsheet vs Genoa (boomed vs boomless) etc etc. The same information
> > may be on their website somewhere.
> >
> > cheers
> > Derek
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
The boat is a very light 19' sailboat with a very large, 145 sqft., genoa.
I don't imagine I'd try and fly that sail in high winds. The foot of the
genoa is almost 2/3 the length of the boat (that may be a slight
exageration, but not much).
I bought the rope already using the West Marine Advisor on running
rigging. With that I selected 5/16" Sta-Set X+ (New England Ropes).
In hindsight I'm thinking that might be a little on the light side. What
I'm really having trouble with is trying to find the correct matching
sheet block. I'll probably just go for overkill and look for something
rated with a work load of close to 1000lb.
Michael
I don't imagine I'd try and fly that sail in high winds. The foot of the
genoa is almost 2/3 the length of the boat (that may be a slight
exageration, but not much).
I bought the rope already using the West Marine Advisor on running
rigging. With that I selected 5/16" Sta-Set X+ (New England Ropes).
In hindsight I'm thinking that might be a little on the light side. What
I'm really having trouble with is trying to find the correct matching
sheet block. I'll probably just go for overkill and look for something
rated with a work load of close to 1000lb.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Spelling
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
If you tell us the size of the boat, we can probably give you a rope size, then you can get your block and cleat sizes to fit that
rope.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Waters" <dgw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
> "...it's four times [the force] when wind speed doubles..."
>
> Yup. Bearing in mind that the loads seen by a block are related to the
> amount by which the line is turned. A block which turns a load back on
> itself sees the load doubled. 90 degree deflection equates to 141% load.
>
> The Harken catalogue used to have a bunch of loading formulae printed at the
> back. Mainsheet vs Genoa (boomed vs boomless) etc etc. The same information
> may be on their website somewhere.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm trying to install sheets, sheet blocks, winches, etc. for a
brand new genoa I just purchased for my boat. There is no
existing deck hardware on the boat. All the hardware and
lines I'm looking at have "safe working load" ratings. Is there
anyway to ballpark the load on a given sheet and/or block
based on the size of the sail and wind conditions?
I know this is a little off topic but any help would be
greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
--
Michael Matthews
Partner, Software Services
Nymbil Solutions, LLC
mike@...
(925) 216-4911
brand new genoa I just purchased for my boat. There is no
existing deck hardware on the boat. All the hardware and
lines I'm looking at have "safe working load" ratings. Is there
anyway to ballpark the load on a given sheet and/or block
based on the size of the sail and wind conditions?
I know this is a little off topic but any help would be
greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
--
Michael Matthews
Partner, Software Services
Nymbil Solutions, LLC
mike@...
(925) 216-4911
Gerr's chart says that's fine for the halyard, but pretty light for the
sheet. He'd go for 7/16" or 1/2" for the sheet (and not have to wear gloves
to tend it.)
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
sheet. He'd go for 7/16" or 1/2" for the sheet (and not have to wear gloves
to tend it.)
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Matthews" <mike_matthews@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
> The boat is a very light 19' sailboat with a very large, 145 sqft., genoa.
> I don't imagine I'd try and fly that sail in high winds. The foot of the
> genoa is almost 2/3 the length of the boat (that may be a slight
> exageration, but not much).
>
> I bought the rope already using the West Marine Advisor on running
> rigging. With that I selected 5/16" Sta-Set X+ (New England Ropes).
> In hindsight I'm thinking that might be a little on the light side. What
> I'm really having trouble with is trying to find the correct matching
> sheet block. I'll probably just go for overkill and look for something
> rated with a work load of close to 1000lb.
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Spelling
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
>
>
> If you tell us the size of the boat, we can probably give you a rope
size, then you can get your block and cleat sizes to fit that
> rope.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Derek Waters" <dgw@...>
> To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
>
>
> > "...it's four times [the force] when wind speed doubles..."
> >
> > Yup. Bearing in mind that the loads seen by a block are related to the
> > amount by which the line is turned. A block which turns a load back on
> > itself sees the load doubled. 90 degree deflection equates to 141%
load.
> >
> > The Harken catalogue used to have a bunch of loading formulae printed
at the
> > back. Mainsheet vs Genoa (boomed vs boomless) etc etc. The same
information
> > may be on their website somewhere.
> >
> > cheers
> > Derek
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
If you tell us the size of the boat, we can probably give you a rope size, then you can get your block and cleat sizes to fit that
rope.
rope.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derek Waters" <dgw@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
> "...it's four times [the force] when wind speed doubles..."
>
> Yup. Bearing in mind that the loads seen by a block are related to the
> amount by which the line is turned. A block which turns a load back on
> itself sees the load doubled. 90 degree deflection equates to 141% load.
>
> The Harken catalogue used to have a bunch of loading formulae printed at the
> back. Mainsheet vs Genoa (boomed vs boomless) etc etc. The same information
> may be on their website somewhere.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
yes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
> --- Richard Spelling wrote:
> > Ballpark one pound thrust per
> > square foot of sail @
> > wind speed of 14mph.
>
> And does the trust increase/decrease
> exponentially with change in windspeed?
>
> 28mph = ? lbs thrust
>
> 7mph = ? lbs thrust
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
"...it's four times [the force] when wind speed doubles..."
Yup. Bearing in mind that the loads seen by a block are related to the
amount by which the line is turned. A block which turns a load back on
itself sees the load doubled. 90 degree deflection equates to 141% load.
The Harken catalogue used to have a bunch of loading formulae printed at the
back. Mainsheet vs Genoa (boomed vs boomless) etc etc. The same information
may be on their website somewhere.
cheers
Derek
Yup. Bearing in mind that the loads seen by a block are related to the
amount by which the line is turned. A block which turns a load back on
itself sees the load doubled. 90 degree deflection equates to 141% load.
The Harken catalogue used to have a bunch of loading formulae printed at the
back. Mainsheet vs Genoa (boomed vs boomless) etc etc. The same information
may be on their website somewhere.
cheers
Derek
In "The Nature of Boats" Dave Gerr spends four or five pages on sizing the
rigging. Unfortunately, most of the calculations address the standing
rigging. For the running rigging, he offers a chart which seems to me to be
quite conservative. For small boats, one consideration is the toughness of
your hands. Small Spectra lines may carry the load easily but slice great
grooves in your palms. I like at least 3/8" for sheets.
For the 34' sloop rigged version of Badger, Jay Benford sized the genoa
sheet and halyard as 1/2" Dacron and called for Barient 23 winches. That's
for an 11,000 boat with a 400 sq-ft genoa. Gerr would have 0.55" sheets and
a 0.43" jib halyard.
Gerr suggests at least 8:1 for sheeves (minimum), so figure 4" or larger
blocks. He also says 12:1 for cleats ==> 6" minimum.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
rigging. Unfortunately, most of the calculations address the standing
rigging. For the running rigging, he offers a chart which seems to me to be
quite conservative. For small boats, one consideration is the toughness of
your hands. Small Spectra lines may carry the load easily but slice great
grooves in your palms. I like at least 3/8" for sheets.
For the 34' sloop rigged version of Badger, Jay Benford sized the genoa
sheet and halyard as 1/2" Dacron and called for Barient 23 winches. That's
for an 11,000 boat with a 400 sq-ft genoa. Gerr would have 0.55" sheets and
a 0.43" jib halyard.
Gerr suggests at least 8:1 for sheeves (minimum), so figure 4" or larger
blocks. He also says 12:1 for cleats ==> 6" minimum.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://derbyrm.mystarband.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Matthews" <mike_matthews@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:53 PM
Subject: [bolger] Safe working loads
> I'm trying to install sheets, sheet blocks, winches, etc. for a
> brand new genoa I just purchased for my boat. There is no
> existing deck hardware on the boat. All the hardware and
> lines I'm looking at have "safe working load" ratings. Is there
> anyway to ballpark the load on a given sheet and/or block
> based on the size of the sail and wind conditions?
>
> I know this is a little off topic but any help would be
> greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Michael Matthews
> Partner, Software Services
> Nymbil Solutions, LLC
>mike@...
> (925) 216-4911
I believe it's exponential of 2, meaning it's four times when wind speed doubles.
So, 28 MPH wind would be 4lbs / sq. foot. 7 MPH should be 1/4 lb. /sq foot.
If memory serves anyway.
Jeff
So, 28 MPH wind would be 4lbs / sq. foot. 7 MPH should be 1/4 lb. /sq foot.
If memory serves anyway.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Safe working loads
--- Richard Spelling wrote:
> Ballpark one pound thrust per
> square foot of sail @
> wind speed of 14mph.
And does the trust increase/decrease
exponentially with change in windspeed?
28mph = ? lbs thrust
7mph = ? lbs thrust
Bolger rules!!!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Richard Spelling wrote:
exponentially with change in windspeed?
28mph = ? lbs thrust
7mph = ? lbs thrust
> Ballpark one pound thrust perAnd does the trust increase/decrease
> square foot of sail @
> wind speed of 14mph.
exponentially with change in windspeed?
28mph = ? lbs thrust
7mph = ? lbs thrust
Ballpark one pound thrust per square foot of sail @ wind speed of 14mph.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Matthews" <mike_matthews@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:53 PM
Subject: [bolger] Safe working loads
> I'm trying to install sheets, sheet blocks, winches, etc. for a
> brand new genoa I just purchased for my boat. There is no
> existing deck hardware on the boat. All the hardware and
> lines I'm looking at have "safe working load" ratings. Is there
> anyway to ballpark the load on a given sheet and/or block
> based on the size of the sail and wind conditions?
>
> I know this is a little off topic but any help would be
> greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks!
> --
> Michael Matthews
> Partner, Software Services
> Nymbil Solutions, LLC
>mike@...
> (925) 216-4911
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>